Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: silver ghost on May 16, 2012, 10:28:40 PM
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Hi all,
I noticed a general lack of posts regarding the proposed Northern Gateway project on the forum, and am curious as to why. It seems as though folks are more concerned with catching fish now than whether there will be any to catch in the future - except for those who are up to speed on some threats to our fisheries - like fish farms, nutrient enrichment, and now the recent alleged snakehead spotting in burnaby.
And so I asked myself: Why is this? Maybe people don't realize just how serious a threat this is to the fisheries resource we all so dearly love. I am just curious as to what others thoughts are on this matter, keeping in mind that, should the project go ahead, any/all of your local stream's fish stocks could be wiped out entirely.
In any case - this might also be a good time to mention that if there are any of you out there wondering what you can do to ensure your voice is heard, you can send in a letter of comment to the review panel - the deadline has been extended to August 31, 2012. The addresses can be found here: http://gatewaypanel.review-examen.gc.ca/clf-nsi/prtcptngprcss/lttrfcmmnt-eng.html
If you don't have the time to write one of your own, email me and I'll send you a copy of mine.
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OK, I am very surprised there is not one response to this topic after being posted for 23 hours. It is sad that the government can just plow through with their plans even though many of us have been telling them this is unacceptable.
The watersheds are precious, when there is a spill. The coast will be destroyed.
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OK, I am very surprised there is not one response to this topic after being posted for 23 hours. It is sad that the government can just plow through with their plans even though many of us have been telling them this is unacceptable.
The watersheds are precious, when there is a spill. The coast will be destroyed.
I know man, it doesn't cease to boggle my mind. But the fact that no one has replied to my post is testament to your very post... do you wonder why the government can just plow through with your plans? Well... it's because people don't care enough, or are too lazy to go out of their way to try and stop them!
Too often do people abandon the intention before even trying to do something because "someone else will do it" or "I don't have time". But the truth of the matter is, right now is the time. Because the project is in its infancy and has not been approved yet there is a far better chance to stop Enbridge dead in their tracks now, opposed to after it gets approved (lets pray it does not). Once its approved, its a done deal. At that point it won't even be worth going to jail over for monkey wrenching or tying oneself to trees etc., because the damage will only be a matter of time between construction and the date of the first spill. If we can convince the higher ups to abandon the project, we will guarantee fish in our rivers for years to come. People need to believe in themselves, unite and stand up for what they believe in and cherish... because once it's gone, we will all be asking ourselves "why didn't I do something?"
On that note - we cannot responsibly defer the responsibility to "do something" to our children or the next generation anymore - the threat is significant, current, and approaching sooner than I'm comfortable with. We need to unite, write letters to our MP's and spread awareness among our families and friends as to what this project means to them and us. Everyday I hear the old timers on the rivers say "its not like it used to be". I for one do not want to repeat the same line to my children, nor do I want to explain why my generation sat around and watched while Enbridge built a pipeline directly through the gills of our province.
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More people are worried about Snakeheads in Burnaby Lake? Brutal.
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It's a sad state of affairs that people don't realize when there being led down the road. Often realizing only when it's too late. Worse yet is that peoples IQ is dropping every year. So the future is looking really dumb and sad. Don't let it stop you from being pro active though. Traditionally only less than one percent of people will stick there neck out to help when it really counts. The rest try to behave like a school of fish. Hoping to survive in the crowd that surrounds them.
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It's a sad state of affairs that people don't realize when there being led down the road. Often realizing only when it's too late. Worse yet is that peoples IQ is dropping every year. So the future is looking really dumb and sad. Don't let it stop you from being pro active though. Traditionally only less than one percent of people will stick there neck out to help when it really counts. The rest try to behave like a school of fish. Hoping to survive in the crowd that surrounds them.
Well said.
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It shocks me as well. BC stands to lose so much. I think this topic should remain on the main page. I mailed my letters to the joint review panel last week. There are very good instructions on how to do this on the SSBC website. While you may be displeased with the possibility of a pipeline that carries oil belonging to foreign corporations that run the oilsands to Chinese tankers, you must voice your opinion to the right people for your opinion to actually matter.
BC has very little to gain from this project, on the other hand, we bear all the risk.
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It would be nice to see this moved back to the main page, as I'm sure more people view "General Discussion" than they do the "Fisheries issues..." one.
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http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/06/11/BC-Sewer-Pipe/
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not the first time its been brought up. some more info
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29142.0
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http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Pipeline+spills+exception+Alberta+they+oily+reality/6780124/story.html#ixzz1yBdpwy00 (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Pipeline+spills+exception+Alberta+they+oily+reality/6780124/story.html#ixzz1yBdpwy00)
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Oooopppps. Tel me again why this is good for BC?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Alberta+pipeline+spill+releases+litres+heavy+crude+Enbridge/6808932/story.html
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I like the part where they said they reported it........
Enbridge station spills heavy crude
Canadian PressJune 20, 2012
There's been another oil spill in Alberta, this time northeast of Edmonton.
The Energy Resources Conservation Board says the leak of heavy crude oil happened Monday at a pumping station on Enbridge Inc.'s Athabasca pipeline about 24 kilometres south-east of Elk Point.
Enbridge estimates about 230,000 litres has leaked, but the ERCB's Darin Barter said Tuesday that amount hasn't been confirmed.
"It's a significant-size spill," said Barter. "Any amount of crude oil out of a pipeline is significant to us. Obviously we've had a number of pipeline incidents in the past short while and we're monitoring cleanup on them and we have a number of investigations underway."
Barter said the pumping station - a 12-year-old facility that is in the middle of a field - has been isolated. He also said the oil has not spilled into any waterways, nor were there any evacuations or injuries due to the leak.
"There's absolutely no waterways, there's no water, there's no standing water, it's on dry land," he said. "The company is actually on the scene and they're cleaning up the spill now. We"ll remain there for as long as we need to be until our comfort is achieved in cleanup operations."
Enbridge said in a news release that the cause of the leak appears to be a failure of a flange gasket. It said as soon as it detected the leak, it notified civic authorities and other regulatory agencies.
But Steve Upham, reeve of the County of St. Paul, where the pumping station is located, said as of Tues-day night he hadn't received any notification.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
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that new enbridge commercial makes me sick everytime I see it !!!
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http://vimeo.com/44578857 (http://vimeo.com/44578857)
This one..... :D :D :D
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/06/26/bc-cartoonist-enbridge-spoof.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/06/26/bc-cartoonist-enbridge-spoof.html)
Now the Province and Murphy were made to pull the Endbridge spoof...
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Received today. Please also note: as environmental standards are lowered, both the federal Conservatives and BC Liberals always wish to frame the issues as great economic benefits of projects versus small environmental risks. The reality is, however, that most of the projects they're currently supporting have not only large environmental risks, but net NEGATIVE ECONOMIC IMPACT for BC as well. The only winners are just the mostly foreign-owned producers, export corporations and the power-brokers of the political parties that are selling us out.
If anyone cares to go a bit deeper into the ECONOMICS of various environmentally damaging projects promoted by them:
(1) Regarding Enbridge Northern Gateway bitumen, it quickly becomes apparent that ENG is a TOTAL LOSER for British Columbia, because (as Enbridge intends, and stated in its application) ENG will cause a dramatic rise in the price of all liquid hydrocarbons, due to demand from the hungry Asian markets that ENG would serve. This huge increase in the price of those liquid hydrocarbons used by all British Columbians FAR OUTWEIGH any small tax benefits from ENG to BC.
According to the print version of that sick ENG promotion in print, on TV and online: "Over 30 years, more than $1.2 billion in tax revenue for BC can be used to strengthen public services."
Using a rounded BC population of 5 million people (4.6M, according to the StatsCan population clock today, which will only continue to rise over the decades), simple math shows that:
(1.2 Billion)/(30 years x 5 Million people) results in $8/person-year, or as often stated, $8 per person per year, in tax revenue.
Assuming that this tiny benefit ever actually shows up, it will be completely overwhelmed by the increase in price that the project will cause, to the point that any possible tax benefit will be eaten up in your first tank of gas in the year.
After that, with more expensive fill-ups for all the rest of the year, and with higher costs for all commercial transport in British Columbia necessary for the infrastructure all businesses and residents depend on, it's clear that, quite apart from the inevitable spills, Enbridge Northern Gateway would have a huge NEGATIVE ECONOMIC impact on BC.
(2) Similar issues exist for the Kinder-Morgan crude pipeline expansion, to the point that both union and management of the Chevron Burnaby refinery (which supplies much of Metro fuels) have stated that either (a) their costs will increase with the K-M expansion, resulting in either higher costs for all BC consumers, OR (b) they will simply go out of business, resulting in even higher costs as we then export crude to the US and Asia, and then buy back the refined products.
(3) The "third rail" on energy export - LNG Liquid Natural Gas export has similar issues with inflationary pricing of domestic natural gas (which will negatively impact both families and all businesses in BC), but in addition, and depending on how the BC Liberals sign sweetheart contracts with the foreign owned LNG export companies, BC electricity rates are bound to dramatically rise as well.
How LNG export will play out on electricity remains a moving target, with Christy Clark now just making up stuff day to day including a redefinition of the "greenness" of burning natural gas to make electricity to cool and compress natural gas for export, but we should all realize that since BC Liberal policy is also to continue to sell BC Hydro electricity to new bulk users at only one-third of Hydro's purchase price from private power companies, with families and small businesses making up the difference in our electricity bills, the potential negative impact of LNG export consuming a major proportion of the electricity currently used in the province will also far outweigh any benefits.
(
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AF are you sure you want these guys in our back yard. Im sure that the 14.76 jobs this will create is reason enough... :D :D :D
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/06/22/Enbridge-Oil-Spill (http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/06/22/Enbridge-Oil-Spill)
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Employees speak out: http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/06/29/Enbridge-Safety-Standards/
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Another added to the list of No to Enbridge.
http://www.globaltvbc.com/another+bc+first+nation+signs+declaration+against+oil-sands+pipelines/6442675315/story.html (http://www.globaltvbc.com/another+bc+first+nation+signs+declaration+against+oil-sands+pipelines/6442675315/story.html)
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http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/aswift/government_investigation_provi.html (http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/aswift/government_investigation_provi.html)
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http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/enbridge+issues+statement+after+keystone+kops+accusation/6442676631/story.html
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One more time!
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Environment/2012/07/28/Enbridge_spill/
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Glad my church is taking a stand against this too. ;D
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/08/06/pol-cp-northern-gateway-pipeline-opposition-churches.html
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Filmed this tonight at the showing of White Water, Black Gold.
http://youtu.be/ZHQJx72K2iQ
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This is awesome Chris TB and NB and Bassonator all agree for once....wheres AF now..... ;D ;D ;D
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The PM, after establishing the political power to make the decision in cabinet, says the decision to build will be made only on a 'scientific' basis.
So it will be calculated that the risk of a major spill is only 0.0000114 per hour of operation or something in that order for the entire line. That is a small number and so the project can go ahead.
Hold on, that is once in 10 years and re-stated this way it doesn't seem such a low risk.. The risk will never be zero and so the decision to build or not build is not scientific, it is always subjective.
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Another clip I filmed last night.
http://youtu.be/ORNALblmOLs
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http://blogborgcollective.blogspot.ca/2012/08/if-enbridge-counted-their-money-way.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+BlogBorgCollective+(Blog+Borg+Collective)
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Take this video and share it where you can. Show that moron Harper that we wont be pushed around.
http://vimeo.com/47788521 (http://vimeo.com/47788521)
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/08/27/Kalamazoo-Disaster-Files/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=270812
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http://www.gatewayisdead.ca/ (http://www.gatewayisdead.ca/)
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I'm damn right against the Northern Gateway Project.
It's not like Alberta's economy is in some serious trouble. I do understand that the money generated from the Northern Gateway Project will help Canada's economy overall, but the risk is far too high since the planned pipeline route cuts across pristine BC wilderness.
Lastly, Enbridge's track record and response to their spills has been a complete JOKE!
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The federal government's Joint Review Panel of the Northern Gateway Pipeline is coming to Vancouver tomorrow, Monday January 14.
People from across British Columbia have formed an unbroken wall of opposition against this dangerous tarsands pipeline to protect our coast and climate. However, many believe the JRP could still rubber-stamp this project unless we keep up the pressure.
What are you doing at 5pm tomorrow? Over 1,400 people have already signed up on Facebook to join the protest, and this will be a key moment to say "no!" to the Northern Gateway Pipeline. Can you join in?
It begins at Victory Square, Cambie & Hastings Street!
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Read how Enbridge witness John Thompson makes the case that an oil could bolster the local economy. If reading this doesn't change the minds of the 4 people who replied they were in favor of Northern Gateway...
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/article/20130227/PRINCEGEORGE0101/302279982/-1/princegeorge/oil-spills-can-benefit-economy-panel-told
Oil spills can benefit economy, panel told
Comments
FEBRUARY 27, 2013
PETER JAMES
CITIZEN STAFF
PJAMES@PGCITIZEN.CA
Some businesses in northern B.C. could benefit from an oil spill, according to testimony this week into the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline.
Northern Gateway witness John Thompson told the Joint Review Panel that given what happened after the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska in 1989, clean up crews attending a spill could generate economic spin-offs.
"Part of the evidence in the spill recovery document is, in fact, a lot of those companies in the Alaska communities made more money catering to the clean-up of the spill than they would of under normal circumstances," Thompson said under questioning from the United Fishermen and Allied Workers' Union.
Northern Gateway is seeking approval to build a $6.5 billion pipeline to connect Alberta's oilsands with Asian markets. The proposal includes a terminal at Kitimat and Thompson was answering questions as a witness on the marine emergency preparedness and response panel.
Thompson said in the event of a spill, socio-economic impacts will range from the impact on resources, like the fishery, the introduction of spill response workers into the community and financial compensation until things get back to normal.
He said it's important for the company to talk with communities about spill preparedness well before any pipelines are built.
"It may mean that some communities simply say we don’t want any external workers coming into this community because it would be disruptive," Thompson said. "Well then the spill response approach would be based on precluding workers from those areas."
Although a spill could have a big impact on the fishery, Thompson said compensation and other opportunities - such as working on clean up crews - will ensure people don't lose any income. He said the compensation packages would not just go to those catching the fish but also people working in processing industries.
"The net result of these whole compensation schemes is the idea that at the end of the day, nobody is any worse off than they were beforehand," he said. "So what you would see is that the income levels would remain the same, the source of the income would differ. Instead of getting it directly from sales of product, it would be through the income compensation."
The fishermen's union was the final intervener to address the the marine effects witness panel, but members of the Joint Review Panel did have a chance to ask questions as well. Hans Matthews got straight to the point with his first question - is Northern Gateway confident in its own scientific evidence?
"I think we’ve seen over the course of the last several weeks, there’s a a difference in views about certain effects on certain valued environmental components and social components and that’s quite typical of science for different scientists to debate different theories," consultant Jeffrey Green replied. "Rather than say one is right and one is wrong, the approach that we’ve taken is to say that we do think there are effects, and that we need to take those effects seriously and plan accordingly for that."
Earlier in the hearing the witness panel spent a lot of time talking about the nature of diluted bitumen in water and what conditions could cause it to sink. Matthews asked how confident Northern Gateway was in that evidence as well.
"I won’t get into the philosophical side of things here, but I’ll basically just state that the 30 years experience I have in dealing with oils in general, knowledge of how these oils behave, the work we did in the lab, I have the confidence that the way we’ve described the behaviour of
these oils and modelled the behaviour of these oils, I’m very confident in the
results that we presented," Randy Belore replied.