Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on April 30, 2012, 06:01:05 AM
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http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/chilean-fish-farms-and-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/
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"Who could have predicted that the mass forced farming of an exotic fish to please the Wal-Mart low-price palate would result in a horrific virus-borne plague?"
Think that for some of the "walmart generation" it's still hard to get their noodle around it.
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Interesting article, looking forward to the second part.
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I wonder if one of you knowledgeable gentlemen would summarize for me the extent of the damage caused in Chile by salmon farms?
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Seems to me the country has learned a lot from it's mistakes.
absolon, I just had a look at the forum on SportsfishingBC ... wow! I admire your patience with those knuckle draggers :D
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That was a bit of fun and an inevitable consequence of the very rare opportunity of finding Morton in a situation where she couldn't ignore a reasonable question that I really wanted an answer to. What strikes me most is that in spite of the rather juvenile approach on that forum, it is the one Morton chose to make an appearance on and the one where she attempts to bolster her support.
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Can you share the link.
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http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?19113-What-can-WE-do-to-help-save-the-salmon
Starts on page 6, goes to about page 22.
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Did they dial up your number pronto. ;D
Absolon: you are apparently new here and perhaps are not yet aware that we do not suffer trolls gladly.
We are working hard in our attempt to preserve and enhance wild salmon stocks, as is Dr. Morton. You are not at all helpful in this endeavour being in retrograde, as you seem to be. You a Norwegian salmon farmer, by chance?
Get on board and stay, go away or Holmes will get you with the Troll Spray. Have a good day!
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All that and 16 more pages in response to a simple question..............."I've wondered about this ever since you worked so hard to take salmon farms away from provincial control and insisted DFO must be responsible. I have never been able to find an explanation for why you did so. Perhaps you could explain now, particularly in light of the quoted statement?"
Remarkable isn't it?
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That was a bit of fun and an inevitable consequence of the very rare opportunity of finding Morton in a situation where she couldn't ignore a reasonable question that I really wanted an answer to. What strikes me most is that in spite of the rather juvenile approach on that forum, it is the one Morton chose to make an appearance on and the one where she attempts to bolster her support.
Still pounding your chest Absolon..... and for what? Why is it that in your mind, everyone that passionately cares about wild salmon is "juvenile". You could benefit from losing a little of that arrogant attitude. Your message, while it may have a little merit, is mostly ignored due to your arrogant approach to the salmon farming topic.
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My description of the behavior as juvenile has absolutely nothing to do with what they believe and absolutely everything to do with how they conduct a discussion with people who don't share their beliefs. Communication is not accomplished by personal attacks and insults.
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My description of the behavior as juvenile has absolutely nothing to do with what they believe and absolutely everything to do with how they conduct a discussion with people who don't share their beliefs. Communication is not accomplished by personal attacks and insults.
I think a number of people attack Alex many times, unfortunatley. ::)
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Starts on page 6, goes to about page 22.
Thanks for that. cudos to rod(moderator) and most other participants here for keeping the tone reasonable. What is going on over there is embarrassing. I see the passion though, i see the passion. ;)
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I think a number of people attack Alex many times, unfortunatley. ::)
Chris, people attack what Ms. Morton says and what she does but no-one has been derogatory on a personal level. There is quite a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger.
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Chris, people attack what Ms. Morton says and what she does but no-one has been derogatory on a personal level. There is quite a difference between attacking the message and attacking the messenger.
I am taking the message to Victoria next week, more on this later. ;D ;D ;D
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I hope you'll find time while there to mention the lack of provincial presence in defending the province's interest with respect to the Enbridge Proposal as well as the wrong-headed decision to open the Kokish to an IPP.
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I hope you'll find time while there to mention the lack of provincial presence in defending the province's interest with respect to the Enbridge Proposal as well as the wrong-headed decision to open the Kokish to an IPP.
Not talking to the present government, just the next one. ;D ;D ;D
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I am guessing absolon will appreciate our polite debates here a little more. ;)
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Indeed!
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;)
I briefly browsed through that thread. Pretty pathetic IMO, ruins what really should be discussed. The individuals who may not agree with absolon in that thread are simply doing harm to their cause by not demonstrating an open mind and respecting others' point of view.
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Seems to me the country has learned a lot from it's mistakes.
Here is the second part to this article; strange that Chris didn't post it :D
Theology of Salmon: Wild or Farmed?
May 1, 2012
Theology of Salmon: Wild or Farmed?
Most of what people think they know about aquaculture salmon is obsolete, or wasn't true in the first place
Food Safety News, by Ross Anderson | May 01, 2012
Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. This is the second of two reports.
Puerto Montt, Chile - In the Pacific Northwest, where I've lived and worked for 40 years, salmon is more than a commodity. It's a regional icon and an article of faith, part of a regional doctrine that dictates: thou shalt eat wild salmon only, for farmed salmon is a blasphemy.
As a journalist with agnostic tendencies, I've never really subscribed to this belief. But I've always been a tad suspicious of farmed salmon. I suppose it has to do with vague recollections of something I read about the use of antibiotics, or to the label we frequently see on salmon packages: "color added."
So when I jetted off to Chile a few weeks ago, it was with a twinge of skepticism.
Over the following five days, I saw a lot of fish. I walked the galvanized steel catwalks around floating netpens the size of three football fields and 100 feet deep - pens that contained millions of Atlantic salmon, shadowy missiles milling beneath the surface until the automatic feeders spring to action and the surface suddenly boils with bright, silvery, hungry salmon that reminded me of an Alaska spawning run.
I toured factories that resemble surgical wards, with scores of workers draped in white gowns, masks and rubber boots, stepping through disinfectant baths between rooms. I watched men and women trimming gorgeous, red fillets into meal-size portions for freezing, then for shipment to markets around the world. I listened to workers explain what they do, and what they've learned from the last few years, when an invading virus killed millions of fish, and almost killed the industry.
At each stop, I asked questions about our perceptions of farmed salmon, about antibiotics and Omega 3 fatty acids and food coloring.
Industry leaders, of course, assure us that all is well. So in recent days, I've consulted with several independent experts, including Dr. Mike Rust, aquaculture researcher at the Northwest Fisheries Science Center in Seattle; Dr. John Forster, a marine biologist and aquaculture expert based in Port Angeles, WA; and Gary Marty, a fisheries expert with the Canadian Agriculture Ministry and a professor at the University of California. Here's what I've learned.
What's the deal with "color added?" OK, this is one that bugged me. And unnecessarily so, it seems. Wild salmon get their color from eating algae, insects, shrimp or other food containing "astaxanthin," the same natural pigment that makes carrots orange. Fish farmers achieve the same result by adding minute amounts of astaxanthin, natural or synthetically produced, to the food pellets. "You'll find the same stuff on the shelf at your local health food store," Marty reports.
What's the risk? None, Rust agrees. "It's also used in poultry, to make egg yolks more yellow. And it's actually a bit of an antioxidant."
Are farmed salmon laced with antibiotics? Aquaculture experts explain that antibiotics have been used to ward off diseases that would sicken or kill fish - in precisely the same way they are used in many common foods. The antibiotics are added to the fishfood, primarily in the early, freshwater stages of their development, when the fish are most susceptible to disease. Two years later, when those fish are harvested, there is little or no trace left in the fish.
In Norway and Canada, those antibiotics have been almost completely eliminated, replaced by vaccines which do the same job. Chile's warmer waters, however, are susceptible to "salmon rickettsial syndrome," or "SRS," which affects fish, but not people. So the industry continues to use antibiotics in the early stages, while awaiting a vaccine to ward off the disease.
"Disease is part and parcel of all biology, whether it is apples or corn or salmon," Forster says. "But it gets more attention because aquaculture tends to fall under the authority of fisheries agencies instead of agriculture."
Don't farmed salmon lack the Omega 3 fatty acids, along with all their health benefits? No. The experts agree that the Omega 3 benefits are derived from what fish eat, and that pellet-fed farmed salmon offer as much, and in some cases more of those benefits than wild fish.
If there is an issue of food safety, Marty says, it might be that there is a higher risk of Listeria in farmed fish. In one sampling of Canadian fish, two of 40 tested positive for Listeria - a level similar to poultry and other meats. But Listeria is quickly and efficiently killed by cooking, he adds.
There are risks with any food, he says. "But the benefits of eating farmed salmon far exceed the risks."
Rust agrees. "I'd have to say that 95 percent of what people think they know about aquaculture salmon is either obsolete, or was not true in the first place."
And so it goes. There are other issues, of course. Environmental critics contend that those floating mega-farms generate an enormous amount of waste that sifts down through the nets and creates ecological deadzones on the sea bottom. They say that escaped fish pose a risk of competing with native fish. And they argue that fish-farms mine the ocean of important forage fish to be converted into fish-food pellets.
Chile's salmon farmers now acknowledge that their critics have been right on some issues. The industry grew too fast, packed too many fish into their farms, leaving them susceptible to the virus that nearly brought the industry to its knees just three years ago. But they say they've learned their lesson, and are doing a far better job of dealing with the ecosystem they depend on.
Still, the industry is still young. Perhaps the jury is still out on those environmental issues.
But food safety doesn't appear to be one of them. So, later this month, when my wife and I host a neighborhood gathering, there will be farmed salmon on my barbecue.
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Here is the second part to this article; strange that Chris didn't post it :D
Thanks Dave. It's always good to hear some "objective" reporting. ::) I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there..
Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. This is the second of two reports.
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Thanks Dave. It's always good to hear some "objective" reporting. ::) I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there..
Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. This is the second of two reports.
Of course when they know in advance the press is coming they are prepared for them on all fronts. :-[
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Thanks Dave. It's always good to hear some "objective" reporting. ::) I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there..
Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. This is the second of two reports.
I don't see any reason to intimate that he's an unethical journalist. If he wasn't an invited guest of the farmers, he'd never get anywhere near the farms.
Ross Anderson is a freelance journalist living in Port Townsend, Washington. Previously he worked 30 years at the Seattle Times, where he covered politics, natural resources and environmental issues. He was a John S. Knight Jornalism Fellow at Stanford in 1979 and has won a number of awards, including a 1990 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and several awards for his now-and-then maritime column for the Port Townsend Leader. In recent years, he has occasionally worked with food safety attorney William Marler on various writing projects.
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I don't see any reason to intimate that he's an unethical journalist. If he wasn't an invited guest of the farmers, he'd never get anywhere near the farms.
Ross Anderson is a freelance journalist living in Port Townsend, Washington. Previously he worked 30 years at the Seattle Times, where he covered politics, natural resources and environmental issues. He was a John S. Knight Jornalism Fellow at Stanford in 1979 and has won a number of awards, including a 1990 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and several awards for his now-and-then maritime column for the Port Townsend Leader. In recent years, he has occasionally worked with food safety attorney William Marler on various writing projects.
I was merely pointing out the facts.
It's very common for companies to wine and dine journalists in order to ensure a favorable report. You can interpret it however you like.....
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I was merely pointing out the facts.
Can you give me a link to the "facts"?
Some how I have a feeling that you are again interpreting your interpretations as facts when really it is just your opinion, but as you sayYou can interpret it however you like.....
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Thanks Dave. It's always good to hear some "objective" reporting. ::) I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there..
Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. This is the second of two reports.
Can you give me a link to the "facts"?
Some how I have a feeling that you are again interpreting your interpretations as facts when really it is just your opinion, but as you say
"Food Safety News writer Ross Anderson recently toured fish farms and processing plants in southern Chile as a guest of Salmon of the Americas, a Chilean trade organization. "
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It's the suggestion that he was wined and dined in order to ensure a favourable report that we would like you to substantiate:
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I was merely pointing out the facts.
It's very common for companies to wine and dine journalists in order to ensure a favorable report. You can interpret it however you like.....
If he didn't write such a "favourable report" would you have given your "facts" much thought? Here are some more facts about this particular journalist:
Ross Anderson is a freelance journalist living in Port Townsend, Washington. Previously he worked 30 years at the Seattle Times, where he covered politics, natural resources and environmental issues. He was a John S. Knight Jornalism Fellow at Stanford in 1979 and has won a number of awards, including a 1990 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and several awards for his now-and-then maritime column for the Port Townsend Leader. In recent years, he has occasionally worked with food safety attorney William Marler on various writing projects (http://www.foodsafetynews.com/contributors/ross-anderson/)
Like Absolon, I am interested in you substantiating Mr. Anderson’s lack of professional ethics in this regard given the fact that he consulted with several independent experts for this story.
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Four posts reacting to my comment that "I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there.." ;D ;D
This was my response to his own admission that he was a guest of Salmon of the Americas. Why would it be unfair for me to assume that he had an all expense paid trip down there? Why would it be unfair to assume that his reporting was not influenced by the treatment he received as their guest?
How likely is it that they will be inviting someone like Alexandra Morton to be their guest? Is it possible that Alex isn't going to receive an invitation because her reporting can't be influenced by the all expense paid, 5 star treatment?
Reading a story and taking it at face value is just naive. Understanding the background of the writer and the circumstances in which the story was written can reveal a lot about the credibility of the story...
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In light of your acknowledged assumptions, and in light of your continued presentation of your supposition as fact, I think this bears repeating:
........Can you give me a link to the "facts"?
Some how I have a feeling that you are again interpreting your interpretations as facts when really it is just your opinion......
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Four posts reacting to my comment that "I'm sure he had a very nice all expenses paid holiday down there.." ;D ;D
This was my response to his own admission that he was a guest of Salmon of the Americas. Why would it be unfair for me to assume that he had an all expense paid trip down there? Why would it be unfair to assume that his reporting was not influenced by the treatment he received as their guest?
How likely is it that they will be inviting someone like Alexandra Morton to be their guest? Is it possible that Alex isn't going to receive an invitation because her reporting can't be influenced by the all expense paid, 5 star treatment?
Reading a story and taking it at face value is just naive. Understanding the background of the writer and the circumstances in which the story was written can reveal a lot about the credibility of the story...
First you said you were "pointing out the facts", but now you seem to be assuming the intentions of the writer. You do have a point about reading a story and just taking it at face value can be naïve. Nowadays, I think people should always look at the content of some news articles critically and not just eagerly jump on the bandwagon. However, what you do is ignore the content and go right after the author with nothing more than assumptions of ethical misconduct. It is also equally naïve to assume that the author purposely wrote a favourable report due to kickbacks.