Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: aquapaloosa on April 27, 2012, 06:21:27 PM
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More PRV and HSMI News
What the lab report actually says:
“The PRV sequences detected by RT-PCR could be from viable or non-viable virus.”
“The presence of PRV sequences in the tissue samples does not imply that the subject fish had HSMI or that HSMI is present in the area where the subject fish were collected from.”
“Confirmation of PRV infection requires further investigation.”
“The laboratory did not participate in the collection of the samples or in the custody of the samples prior to receipt of the samples. The laboratory therefore cannot guarantee the integrity of the sample.”
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/04/23/prv-and-hsmi-lab-report-we-got-it/ (http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/04/23/prv-and-hsmi-lab-report-we-got-it/)
News: Salmon virus issues linger in B.C.
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=94704 (http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=94704)
University must address issues of science, ethics
http://www.canada.com/University+must+address+issues+science+ethics/6528904/story.html (http://www.canada.com/University+must+address+issues+science+ethics/6528904/story.html)
What’s in a name?
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/tag/alexandra-morton/ (http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/tag/alexandra-morton/)
Closed Containment is not a Panacea
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/author/juniusshark/ (http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/author/juniusshark/)
Monterey Bay Aquarium applying for waste impact exception
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/monterey-bay-aquarium-applying-for-waste-impact-exception/ (http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/monterey-bay-aquarium-applying-for-waste-impact-exception/)
Monterey Bay Aquarium busted
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=94687 (http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=94687)
Harper Government Commits to the Responsible Protection and Conservation of Canada’s Fisheries
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2012/hq-ac12-eng.htm (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2012/hq-ac12-eng.htm)
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Thanks for the pro fishing farming news. ;D
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aquapaloosa, the anti-Chris :D
Good links
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aquapaloosa, the anti-Chris :D
Good links
He is doing his best to counteract this, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/04/26/ns-salmon-disease-fish-kill.html,
give him credit for trying. :D
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aquapaloosa, the anti-Chris Cheesy
At least he reads it, maybe. Unlike others here who refuse. :-\
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At least he reads it, maybe. Unlike others here who refuse. :-\
I try to read everything but I know we are fed so much propaganda by some governments it is hard to believe what they feed us. The lack of transparency is very disturbing. One has to look at Cohen to see how some lawyers seemed to prevent evidence being presented.
I was on a government Riding Association for nearly 8 years and I know how they do business as well being on some environmental groups for the last 25 or so years really shows how they operate, should write that book but could end up in trouble like Bill. ::)
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He is doing his best to counteract this, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/04/26/ns-salmon-disease-fish-kill.html,
give him credit for trying. Cheesy
I am doing no such thing. You've posted many times over that ISA(E) is here in BC. I never heard you or you ragtime band ever once say you were wrong about that. Seems like none of the anti's want to chat much about that any more.
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I am doing no such thing. You've posted many times over that ISA(E) is here in BC. I never heard you or you ragtime band ever once say you were wrong about that. Seems like none of the anti's want to chat much about that any more.
Ragtime band, got to like that one. ;D ;D
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Ragtime band, got to like that one. ;D ;D
Why ragtime??? ...why not rock and roll? ::)
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Why ragtime??? ...why not rock and roll? ::)
Maybe aging himself. ;D ;D
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Search "ragtime band" for yourself. You will be amazed at how many times the name Alexander comes up. haha
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Search "ragtime band" for yourself. You will be amazed at how many times the name Alexander comes up. haha
Losing it too. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/6841914/We-need-a-game-plan-for-aquaculture
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http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/17051/russia-bans-more-norwegian-exports
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http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/17051/russia-bans-more-norwegian-exports
The letter states that the reason for exclusion is "repeated discoveries of goods that do not meet the Russian Federation and the Customs Union requirements, and follow-up inspections in February found importation of chilled products to be a health risk."
Considering the low food standards that the Russians have in that country, the Norwegians must have been sending some real crappy salmon product to their country. Aren't these the same Norwegian companies that are producing salmon off the BC coast?
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Lots of debate under this article, another place for our Pro guys to wade in, that is if their grass has stopped growing. ;D ;D ;D
http://www.lillooetnews.net/article/20120502/LILLOOET0303/305029986/-1/lillooet/a-response-to-challenge-issued-to-salmon-farmers
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It doesn't appear there is any room for debate Chris. The point is straightforward and undeniable:
Alexandra Morton (who is not a veterinarian) sent supermarket samples of BC farmed Atlantic salmon to veterinary microbiologist Dr. Fred Kibenge at UPEI. His test results included an important disclaimer: “the presence of PRV sequences in the tissue samples does not imply that the subject fish had HSMI [heart and skeletal muscle inflammation].”
Contrary to Dr. Kibenge’s disclaimer, Alexandra Morton reported to the public that the “lab also reports that we had piscine reovirus, heart and skeletal muscle inflammation…”, “it’s a nasty heart virus”, and the fish “had heart and skeletal inflammation virus…” (Apr. 21 speech at U. Vic.).
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It doesn't appear there is any room for debate Chris. The point is straightforward and undeniable:
Alexandra Morton (who is not a veterinarian) sent supermarket samples of BC farmed Atlantic salmon to veterinary microbiologist Dr. Fred Kibenge at UPEI. His test results included an important disclaimer: “the presence of PRV sequences in the tissue samples does not imply that the subject fish had HSMI [heart and skeletal muscle inflammation].”
Contrary to Dr. Kibenge’s disclaimer, Alexandra Morton reported to the public that the “lab also reports that we had piscine reovirus, heart and skeletal muscle inflammation…”, “it’s a nasty heart virus”, and the fish “had heart and skeletal inflammation virus…” (Apr. 21 speech at U. Vic.).
x2
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I'm waiting for the Spuzzum Standard to wade in before I make a comment ::)
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I'm waiting for the Spuzzum Standard to wade in before I make a comment ::)
I have heard tell that the Standard is the Enquirer of the north, so I wouldnt bother... ;D
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I will deliver all your comments when I am in Victoria at the Leg. next week by referring them to all these threads and topics so they can refer to them. ;D ;D ;D
It would be nice to have all your proper names but I know I will not get them except Dave's and one other. ;D Easy to make statements by posting under a handle. ::)
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I'm waiting for the Spuzzum Standard to wade in before I make a comment ::)
Talk about shooting the messenger, Dave.
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Talk about shooting the messenger, Dave.
When comments we see from those you mention start appearing and others talk about watching grass grow one knows they are slipping backwards. ;D ;D ;D
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It would be nice to have all your proper names but I know I will not get them except Dave's and one other. ;D Easy to make statements by posting under a handle. ::)
The system doesn't require real names. People sometimes, don't like someone looking them up and calling them, harrassing them because they take a petty Internet issue personally. As long as Rod isn't requiring real names, I would suggest that people are choosing privacy because they can, not because they NEED to hide.
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Easy to make statements by posting under a handle. ::)
Just as easy to make them while posting under your own name. Unfortunately, that isn't a guarantee of truth, accuracy or relevance either.
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The system doesn't require real names. People sometimes, don't like someone looking them up and calling them, harrassing them because they take a petty Internet issue personally. As long as Rod isn't requiring real names, I would suggest that people are choosing privacy because they can, not because they NEED to hide.
Of course you are correct and we all know this. :D
I guess I better change mine then, or maybe it is too late. ;D ;D ;D
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Just as easy to make them while posting under your own name. Unfortunately, that isn't a guarantee of truth, accuracy or relevance either.
Good one. ;D
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European salmon viruses in Pacific salmon denied by government and industry
FROM ALEX
Summary
BC farm salmon are testing positive for critically harmful European viruses that are appearing globally wherever Atlantic salmon are farmed.
Wild BC salmon populations exposed to salmon farms are mysteriously collapsing and testing positive for the European viruses. Adjacent populations seem unaffected.
Distribution of virally infected farm salmon through the markets and consumers has the potential to flush these viruses into watersheds throughout Canada and wherever sold, in particular the piscine reovirus which is detected in the fillets.
Government refuses to accept/acknowledge ISAv positive test results from the University of Bergen, the North/South American OIE reference lab for ISA virus (PEI) and the DFO genomic lab in Nanaimo.
The international response protocol to ISA virus in farm salmon is to cull, DFO’s failure to respond to ISAv positive results in farm salmon is a risk to the N. Pacific.
Provincial Agriculture Minister, Don McRae, reports Asian and US markets threatened closure if ISA virus is in BC (Hansard, March 27, 2012).
Allowing these European viruses unfettered access to Pacific salmon is negligent.
Either the farm salmon have to be removed, or government needs to tell us that wild salmon are considered a secondary priority after the needs of the salmon farming industry are met. Government needs to stop telling the public they can have both, because the sheer sloppiness that has allowed these viruses in - is not going to work for anyone.
The Issue:
No government mechanism existed in Canada that was capable of protecting wild salmon in the face of trade pressure demanding Canada maintain an open border to millions of Atlantic salmon eggs on demand by the Norwegian salmon farming corporations operating in BC.
BC salmon farms are located throughout the major wild salmon migration routes of southern and central BC, ensuring transfer of the viruses identified in this brief to wild salmon.
Asian and US legislators consider closing their borders to BC farm salmon in response to ISA virus reports in fall 2011. The evidence suggest Canada is compromising its reputation as a trade partner denying what is obvious - ISA virus is in BC.
Viruses cannot be contained with drugs like sea lice. Salmon farms have to be removed away from wild salmon or we stand to lose the rest of BC wild salmon runs.
Background - trade:
• In 1991, DFO Director General Pat Chamut warned Aaron Sarna – Director of DFO’s Pacific Rim and Trade Policy Division that continued large-scale Atlantic salmon egg imports would introduce biologically and economically devastating exotic diseases, despite this 23 million Atlantic salmon eggs came into BC after 1991. It would appear Chamut was ignored, but correct.
• In 2003, DFO Director-General Laura Richards agreed to demands by the three Norwegian salmon farm companies operating in BC for Atlantic eggs from an Icelandic Hatchery that did not meet the Canadian Fish Health Protection Regulations, she cited threat of trade sanctions if the request was denied.
• DFO and international labs are finding exotic viruses in BC farm and wild salmon, but government stubbornly refuses to acknowledge them, even of the results of their own scientists.
• The Canadian Food Inspection Agency testified to the Cohen Commission on the Decline of the Fraser Sockeye in Dec. 2011 that, if ISA virus is in BC trade for farm salmon could cease.
• This creates enormous international pressure to ignore the science and refuse for to acknowledge ISAv BC,
• Today two three viruses (2 exotic and one endemic) in farm salmon are threatening wild salmon and farm salmon trade.
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Background – the viruses:
Salmon Flu – Infectious Salmon Anemia virus (ISAv)
• ISAv, an internationally reportable virus, first noted in 1984 in Norway is spreading globally wherever Atlantic salmon are farmed.
• The 4 levels of detection from lowest to highest confidence: histology, PRC test, sequencing and culture. Canada only recognizes culture, citing PCRs as too sensitive and the potential for false positives too damaging to the industry.
• BC provincial vet, Dr. Gary Marty reported over 1,000 reports of “classic” ISA virus lesions (histology) in his farm salmon health audits 2006-2010 (Cohen Commission Exhibit).
• Gary Marty – BC provincial vet, Clare Backman – Marine Harvest and Peter MacKenzie – Mainstream (Cermaq) – Dr. MacWilliams – DFO - all testified under oath that the ISA virus is not in BC
• Then ISA virus was reported in Rivers Inlet (Nov 2011) - Justice Cohen reopened his Inquiry and we learned that DFO has been hiding ISAv positive tests in 100% of the most critical Fraser sockeye stock tested (Cultus).
• The salmon farming industry denies ISAv is in their fish and refuse access to their fish for testing
• 2010 salmon farmers stop importing eggs, terminates BC’s farm salmon health audits, sign MOU to share virus information.
• Spring 2012 we began buying farm Atlantics in markets and find the highly virulent HPR5 and HPR7b ISAv mutations
• The salmon farming industry denies ISAv is in their fish even though these are known Norwegian mutations.
• HPR5 was sequenced from a Vedder River chum salmon.
Salmon Heart Virus - Piscine reovirus (PRV) - Heart and Skeletal Muscle Inflammation
• First discovered in Norway in 1988, causes heart failure in salmon, destroying heart muscle. This distinctive disease was tracked as it spread like “wildfire” through Norway. In 2010 PRV was sequenced and identified as the cause.
• Eggs could not be screened for this virus prior to 2010 because it was unknown.
• Nearly 100% of farm salmon from Vancouver and Victoria supermarkets test positive for Norwegian PRV (sequenced).
• Loblaw states these farm salmon were reared in BC
• Dr. Miller (DFO) testified that she found this virus in Clayoquot farm salmon and Fraser sockeye.
• BC Salmon Farmers Assoc. Director Mary Ellen Walling disagrees saying they do not see the affects of this virus in their fish.
• In contrast, the BC government farm salmon vet, Gary Marty, said he found PRV in 75% of farm salmon tested in 2010,
• This data was not produced to the Cohen Commission, despite specific request for aquaculture and disease information.
• DFO spokesperson, Frank Stanek announced: “Government of Canada scientists have not confirmed the presence of this virus in Canadian fish, despite extensive monitoring and testing”. This is contradicts what Government of Canada scientist Dr. Miller reported to the Cohen Commission.
• Over 90% of Fraser sockeye have been dying in recent years as they swim against the often swift currents of the Fraser River and so presence of PRV, which causes salmon hearts to become “soft and flabby” and triggers heart failure, has to be examined.
• DFO and salmon farming industry spokespeople are not credible in the face of the evidence that PRV is in BC farm salmon.
• Because PVR lodges in the flesh, it is being shipped throughout North America and washing down drains as fillets are washed.
Salmon Leukemia virus (endemic)
• In the 1990s, BC’s first industrial salmon farms reared Chinook that became highly infected with a new pathogen named Salmon Leukemia virus by Dr. Michael Kent, Director of the DFO Pacific Biological Station. Kent never sequenced his virus, making it impossible to trace this salmon farm virus today.
• Kent reports 100% of the sockeye and most of the wild Chinook exposed to salmon leukemia died. Despite this DFO allowed the industry to expand throughout the narrow migratory corridors off eastern Vancouver Island where 1/3 of all BC salmon come and go. The Province of BC, managing the salmon farms, did nothing.
• The Fraser sockeye decline was unstoppable. So many sockeye were dying on the riverbanks DFO tasked their genomics lab run by Dr. Miller of the Pacific Biological Station.
• Miller found strong evidence of a virus with the same characteristics as salmon leukemia in the sockeye. DFO muzzled this lab, prevented Miller from attending scientific meetings on the collapse and prohibited her from speaking to media.
• The discovery of a viral cancer-type disease in BC farm salmon was suppressed, BC and Canada did nothing to protect wild salmon from this – Miller’s lab is working to sequence and fully identify the virus which appears to be a Parvo virus.
• Kent’s technical report to the Cohen Commission inexplicably listed it “low risk,” even though it killed 100% of sockeye exposed.
• In 2008, all the farms with a history of this virus were emptied of Chinook. The 1st sockeye to go to sea without exposure returned in 2010 – a historic 100-year high return.
Timeline
1. 2003-2004 DFO gets ISAv positive test results in 64/64 Cultus sockeye, 55% of eastern Vancouver Island Chinook, 10/37 salmon from Alaskan waters. This work is never made public, even ISAv is an international “reportable disease.”
2. 2009 the Commission of Inquiry into the Decline in the Fraser Sockeye is called by the federal government of Canada, to investigate the “policies and practices” of DFO and investigate:
“the causes for the decline of Fraser River sockeye salmon including, but not limited to, the impact of environmental changes along the Fraser River, marine environmental conditions, aquaculture, predators, diseases, water temperature and other factors that may have affected the ability of sockeye salmon to reach traditional spawning grounds or reach the ocean,” http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/TermsOfReference.php
1. Despite specific mention of “aquaculture” and “diseases” DFO does not reveal their findings of the most lethal salmon virus known (ISAv) in the most endangered Fraser sockeye (Cultus).
2. 2006-2010 BC vet Dr. Marty reports over 1000 “classic” ISAv lesions in farm salmon – (Cohen Exhibit)
3. Beginning in mid- 2009, as the “missing” Fraser sockeye are passing 9 million farm salmon in pens along eastern Vancouver Island Marine Harvest starts requesting 30 tests for ISA virus from Dr. Marty. Prior to this, back to 2006, only 2 such tests were requested.
4. April 2010, the three Norwegian operators in BC, Marine Harvest, Mainstream (Cermaq) and Grieg tell the Province of BC they refuse to participate any longer in the BC farm salmon health audits run by Dr. Marty, but they continue to send samples privately to this vet (Cohen Exhibits).
5. April 2010, the Norwegian companies sign an MOU to share information about viruses with each other.
6. 2010, all the companies suddenly stop importing eggs from Iceland http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/egg-oeuf-eng.htm
7. Fall 2011, OIE lab detects European strain ISA virus in 2 Rivers Inlet sockeye smolts.
8. Fall 2011, OIE lab detects European strain ISA virus in Fraser salmon.
9. Dec. 2011, DFO genomic lab testifies at the Cohen Inquiry - ISA virus detected in Fraser sockeye and Clayoquot chinook farms
10. March 2012, OIE lab sequences HPR5 ISAv in wild Vedder River (tributary to Cultus) chum salmon.
11. March 2012, OIE lab detects the virulent HPR5 and HPR7b ISAv strains in Atlantic salmon from Loblaw owned-supermarkets, Loblaw reports these fish were reared in BC netpens.
12. DFO, the Province of BC and the salmon farming industry refuse to accept ISAv is in BC
Recommendation
Given the secrecy exhibited by the salmon farming industry, the Province of BC and DFO, and given the risk associated with introduction of virulent European viruses into the North Pacific and given that there is no chemical method of viral suppression;
if wild salmon are expected to thrive, salmon farms must be removed immediately from waters used by wild salmon.
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As usual, there is another side to the story that includes the information Morton leaves out:
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/morton-chinook.pdf (http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/morton-chinook.pdf)
Not only that, these folks have discovered the real reason for the demise of the sockeye:
(http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/graph_bieber.jpg)
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As usual, there is another side to the story that includes the information Morton leaves out:
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/morton-chinook.pdf (http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/morton-chinook.pdf)
Not only that, these folks have discovered the real reason for the demise of the sockeye:
(http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/graph_bieber.jpg)
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oops, not sure what happened there but thanks absolon, you beat me to it.
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oops, not sure what happened there but thanks absolon, you beat me to it.
Good think he did or I would have to say, losing it too. ;D Justin Bieber now enters the debate. ??? ::)
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The correlation between Bieber and the salmon is easily as strong as the correlations Morton attempts to make.
Ms. Morton doesn't seem to have a grasp on the very basic idea that adding up half-truths doesn't result in the whole truth.
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The correlation between Bieber and the salmon is easily as strong as the correlations Morton attempts to make.
Ms. Morton doesn't seem to have a grasp on the very basic idea that adding up half-truths doesn't result in the whole truth.
While I do get your whole "correlation does not mean causation" argument, at some point you are going to have to accept that, because a strong correlation is a sign of a causal relationship (it may not be the only sign, but it is a sign, so that while not all correlations are causal, all causal relationships are correlated), the correlation between the arrival of open net salmon farms on the main coastal migration routes of wild salmon and the decline in productivity of wild salmon is more likely to be found to be a result of a causal relationship than is the birth of Justin Beiber and the decline of the wild salmon. You should have just stuck to the correlation between the expansion of Alaska salmon ranching and the decline in productivity of wild salmon. That correlation at least has a chance of being found to be causal in nature.
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I've never bought in to the Bieber thing but I do know Chris retired about the same time as wild salmon began declining. Coincidence? ;D
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A correlation is not a sign of a causal relationship. It is a sign of a potential causal relationship but in order to establish that relationship actually exists, causality must be demonstrated, not simply declared. Until that demonstration is done, Morton's declarations are no more valid than a declaration that Bieber's birth is causal to the decline of the runs
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I've never bought in to the Bieber thing but I do know Chris retired about the same time as wild salmon began declining. Coincidence? ;D
Jeez....is he that good a fisherman?
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Jeez....is he that good a fisherman?
Hell no. I'm talking about the diseases on his tackle and living in his bait box :)
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Maybe we should ask Ms. Morton to have it tested. ;D
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Hell no. I'm talking about the diseases on his tackle and living in his bait box
Now the attack centers on tackle you have now joined the others. :o ;D
Off to Victoria this week to continue the campaign there. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20120506/NEWS04/305060005/Wild-salmon-best-you-environment?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CPoughkeepsieJournal.com%7Cs
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The Poughkeepsie journal?.............LOL!
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The Poughkeepsie journal?.............LOL!
Too much Jersey Shore imho...... ;D ;D ;D