Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: BCfisherman97 on February 06, 2012, 05:15:29 PM

Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: BCfisherman97 on February 06, 2012, 05:15:29 PM
Got to a run yesterday and right off the bat there was a double header by a fly guy down river and a guy beside me. So many people out there, lots of fence posting and low holing, made me wanna stop fishing, that was a first.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: leapin' tyee on February 06, 2012, 05:53:27 PM
Saw 4 guys almost get into a fight because of low holing below Allison yesterday.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: leaping steely on February 06, 2012, 05:56:01 PM
Saw 4 guys almost get into a fight because of low holing below Allison yesterday.

I heard about that. It's pretty sad that it has to come down to that. I remember when Steelheading season meant friendlier people on the river.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: leapin' tyee on February 06, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
I saw a lot of fishermen ,old timers or even some of the fishing forum members(not just F.W.R members) do the same thing. It is sad.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 06, 2012, 06:20:50 PM
I saw a lot of fishermen ,old timers or even some of the fishing forum members(not just F.W.R members) do the same thing. It is sad.

Low holers will get no less than an earful from me, just like the two Asian gentlemen who tried to plant themselves 10 feet downstream from me did on Saturday.
Low holing is not cool, even on the Vedder. Do it at your own risk.

On a more positive note, approach me nicely, and I may even offer you to fish beside me.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: opwins on February 06, 2012, 06:34:37 PM
Fished everyday last week and seemed like a good hardcore group of steelheaders but Saw a lot of low holing this weekend and friday, even from a couple of vets that are out there everyday......they know better.  I want more snowy conditions  ;D
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: typhoon on February 06, 2012, 07:34:01 PM
I followed a group of older gents through a series of 'new' small runs at mid-river. I reached a corner run with back eddies that was maybe 40 feet long.
I drifted through the seam and was surprised to see 2 younger fishers (maybe 18 yrs) had moved up from the previous run.  One of them essentially stood beside me, casted over me and hooked my line (!!)
He apologized and I calmly explained to him that it was inappropriate for him to fish below someone in a run and that he should be starting at the head of the run.
He moved 4 feet downstream, ignored me, and continued casting.
That area was a complete zoo. There was probably 80 fishers in 500m and ZERO fish hooked in the 3 hours we fished the area.   
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Stratocaster on February 06, 2012, 08:19:11 PM
Low holers will get no less than an earful from me, just like the two Asian gentlemen who tried to plant themselves 10 feet downstream from me did on Saturday.
Low holing is not cool, even on the Vedder. Do it at your own risk.

On a more positive note, approach me nicely, and I may even offer you to fish beside me.

you didn't mean flyfishing magician and I did you? ;)

Just kidding. :D it was nice meeting you and Mastercaster.  I think I kind of low holed him when we all fished our way down to the next hole.  I didn't feel too bad about it either since he hooked three fish in a row right next to me in less than a half hour ;D

Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: silver ghost on February 06, 2012, 08:27:55 PM
I dont know about you guys, but I go out to fish and have a good time and if a couple of idiots are out there want to low hole me than cool - that's their deal - but at the end of the day it is what it is - an internet river; heck, there's probably going to be a "vedder river beak" iPhone app soon - if I wanted to fish alone or with the most well mannered anglers then well...I probably wouldn't be fishing at all!


Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Geff_t on February 06, 2012, 08:33:53 PM
Saw 4 guys almost get into a fight because of low holing below Allison yesterday.

 Searun17 was out fishing on Saturday and got low-holed as he was working down stream along the run and the guy hooked and landed a hatchery. That guy was lucky that I was not there as I am not as nice as searun is. I would of given the guy such an ear full.

Even though this is an internet river you would still expect people to know how to fish properly. I mean there are so many people that come to this and other sites that you would think that alot more fishermen would know about rotational angling. I am just glad that I can no longer fish this river as much as I used too.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: leapin' tyee on February 06, 2012, 08:48:19 PM
. That guy was lucky that I was not there as I am not as nice as searun is. I would of given the guy such an ear full.

Hey Geff, some of those guys doesn't give a sh**, then what ? Just don't like confrontation.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: silver ghost on February 06, 2012, 08:54:58 PM
I always ask guys before stepping in a run if there is no space above and will continue to use good ethics while on the water - but at the same time it's not worth getting into a fist fight over IMO
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: CohoMan on February 06, 2012, 09:09:37 PM
It is not unusual to see someone walk into the run you are fishing and go fish below you. If we were to stop everyone, we will see lots of angry fishermen.
It would definitely be a perfect world if everyone do the rotations.

A good example is the Bergman Run. Most fishermen that comes to the run park themselves anywhere they can.
Unfortunately, most do not know how to fish in rotation.

On Saturday morning 7:30am, I walked into the run. I saw three fishermen fence posting the tailend. 2 in the middle and 2 flyfishers working their way down from the top of the run.

I waited for the flyfishers to work their way down before stepping into the top of the run. I made 3 casts and got one. While I was playing that fish down towards the middle of the run, someone decided to step into the spot I got the fish. As I was making my way down anyways, I did not mind. I started to fish below this guy and got another one. More people started to come and some decided to fish in between the fishers down towards the tailend and some above me. I worked my way down just behind the flyfishers and got into another one.

I am just saying that not everyone is willing to learn from someone else. I started steelheading like everyoine else- fence posting until I started reading and understand why we need to move.
I found that I caught more fish by moving constantly.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: hue-nut on February 06, 2012, 10:10:49 PM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!

Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 06, 2012, 10:55:24 PM
you didn't mean flyfishing magician and I did you? ;)

No, of course not.
I was referring to the two guys that showed up and started setting camp just below us.
Oh, by the way, nice fish you caught there! ;)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/IMG_0003.jpg)
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: chris gadsden on February 07, 2012, 05:59:57 AM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!


Unfortunatly you are correct.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Geff_t on February 07, 2012, 07:35:01 AM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!



Yes I totally agree, but when there is only one other person fishing a run like what happened in Searun's case, then I think you have a right to get a little pissy.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Jewelz on February 07, 2012, 08:04:51 AM
I'm assuming the conditions are the same as yesterday as it didn't rain... heading out around noon today.

Can someone please tell me the areas I should AVOID that have too much pressure...
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: leapin' tyee on February 07, 2012, 08:19:55 AM


Can someone please tell me the areas I should AVOID that have too much pressure...

K.W.B., Canel, Lickman road etc.., most of the lower section. It was crazy at the weekend..But most of the fish are pull out from there..
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: roseph on February 07, 2012, 08:38:51 AM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!


Also 100% agree but still think it sucks.  I was at one of these runs (didn't know it was producing as much as it was) last week.  Started at first light at the head of the pool and by the time the sun had come up and I was halfway through the run about a dozen guys had come in each low-holing eachother as they arrived!  

This year seem worse than others.  I haven't caught many fish so I've been keeping low-holing stats in lieu.  Out of 27 'fisherman' just 3 have not low-holed me or have asked to fish below.  
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: azafai on February 07, 2012, 09:19:41 AM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!



X3  ...   to wake up and accept the reality
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: bigblue on February 07, 2012, 11:25:22 AM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!

Unfortunate, but true.
Some popular runs on the lower river might have up to a dozen guys showing up at first light and it would be unrealistic to expect them to all start at the top and work down as time is precious at that time of day. Shot gun start, like in golf, is the only realistic alternative, but hope everyone would work down and not fence post giving everyone a rotational chance at the entire run. Today only two rivers on the lower mainland is open for steelhead retention, so crowding is inevitable and some rules made in another era need to be adjusted to reflect reality.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: hookR on February 09, 2012, 01:21:48 AM

Today only two rivers on the lower mainland is open for steelhead retention, so crowding is inevitable and some rules made in another era need to be adjusted to reflect reality.

2 rivers in the lower mainland open for retention? Which other river is open?
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: BigFisher on February 09, 2012, 06:24:31 AM
2 rivers in the lower mainland open for retention? Which other river is open?

Theres 4 I can think of?
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 09, 2012, 02:13:50 PM
Theres 4 I can think of?

There's more, actually.
Read this article and check the regs...easy to figure them out.  ;)

http://www.steelheadermag.com/probertsteelheading.html
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: hookR on February 09, 2012, 03:11:26 PM
There's more, actually.
Read this article and check the regs...easy to figure them out.  ;)

http://www.steelheadermag.com/probertsteelheading.html

Thanks Milo
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: silver ghost on February 09, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
Even though there are several flows that are open to steelhead retentioin, it is certainly not ethical to do with the exception of the vedder and possibly one other, IMO
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: river walker on February 10, 2012, 10:32:33 AM
Even though there are several flows that are open to steelhead retentioin, it is certainly not ethical to do with the exception of the vedder and possibly one other, IMO

If it was unethical they wouldnt clip fish . The government funds these programs . Clipped fish are there to bonk.
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 10, 2012, 11:43:48 AM
If it was unethical they wouldnt clip fish . The government funds these programs . Clipped fish are there to bonk.

X2
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: greyghost on February 10, 2012, 12:02:20 PM
If it was unethical they wouldnt clip fish . The government funds these programs . Clipped fish are there to bonk.
X3
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: silver ghost on February 10, 2012, 03:26:43 PM
Sure they are there to bonk...in some cases. But just because a fish is clipped doesn't make it legal to bonk! RE: cap, seymour...
Title: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 10, 2012, 04:48:26 PM
Sure they are there to bonk...in some cases. But just because a fish is clipped doesn't make it legal to bonk! RE: cap, seymour...
You are back pedalling now...without success.

You stated in your first post: "Even though there are several flows that are open to steelhead retentioin, it is certainly not ethical to do with the exception of the vedder and possibly one other, IMO."

From the above post any reader will understand that it is NOT ethical
to retain hatchery steelhead from some rivers other than the Vedder and maybe another river although doing so is permitted.

When called on it, you bring up the Capilano and the Seymour rivers, which are CLOSED to steelhead retention - regardless of whether the fish are clipped or not. Well, DOH!

Make up your mind.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: norton on February 10, 2012, 09:14:37 PM
wow!, lol.  if you dont like the crowds, why are you fishing there. go explore, do a bit of hiking. theres lots of places on the vedder where there is no one fishing. if i see a bunch of fisherman in a run , thats the last place im going. today i landed and released a wild fish and there wasnt a soul in sight. im all for starting at the top of a run and working down, but some fisherman stand in the same place for hours. what are you supposed to do, sit on a log , and watch them, until they move?
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: silver ghost on February 11, 2012, 01:09:45 AM
You are back pedalling now...without success.

You stated in your first post: "Even though there are several flows that are open to steelhead retentioin, it is certainly not ethical to do with the exception of the vedder and possibly one other, IMO."

From the above post any reader will understand that it is NOT ethical
to retain hatchery steelhead from some rivers other than the Vedder and maybe another river although doing so is permitted.

When called on it, you bring up the Capilano and the Seymour rivers, which are CLOSED to steelhead retention - regardless of whether the fish are clipped or not. Well, DOH!

Make up your mind.


okay cool I'm really not too worried about it
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: steve B on February 13, 2012, 04:40:12 PM
what the hell is low holeing ???????? explain
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: blaydRnr on February 13, 2012, 06:51:30 PM
what the hell is low holeing ???????? explain

traditionally you work a run from the top (head) and work your way down to the tail trying to cover as much water as possible...low holing is when someone cuts in down stream from you (before you've reached the tail of the run) and starts fishing.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Carich980 on February 13, 2012, 07:40:50 PM
I'd say 90% of the time while using my spey rod, gear guys cut in directly below me as I'm working through a run and then statue. I have yet to have a single gear guy ask me or say anything before fishing below me. Doesn't bother me much I just walk back to the top of the run and if they haven't moved through go around them and continue on down, I think a lot of guys out there are ignorant to the river ethics. Then there are others that just dont give a crap.

LOL!!! Which reminds me of when we had all that cold and snow recently. I was on a run by myself braving the wind and this CP guy comes directly up to me, I thought for sure he was going to talk or ask. Nope! there goes the float directly over my swinging fly line..... doesn't even say hello /facepalm! Now you gotta think this guy would know the river ethics? Considering I respect all the gear Guys and ask them all the time, a little mutual respect would be nice once in a while. At least all the other Fly guys I've met on the river have always been polite and courteous and seem to follow the river ethics as posted on these forums.

I just recently got a CP reel and rod, still figuring out the whole cast and drift technique, so I'll be intrested to see if the attitude of other gear guys changes or not. I suspect some guys just have an " Us vs them " attitude.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Loop on February 13, 2012, 08:30:06 PM
Hey guys,
I am new on this site but this topic is of interest to me.

My two cents. I think it is mostly about education for new fisherman and communication. Some people will "low hole" because they don't care, but I think the majority of people that do it, just don't know the standard river eithics. The vedder gets more newbie fisherman than any other in BC. At least once a day during coho season, I was teaching guys how to identify a wild coho, so that I didn't have to watch people killing wild fish all day.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 13, 2012, 08:46:16 PM
IMO rotational angling and general etiquette are a lost cause for the busiest runs. It is almost comical to think about walking into a known honey hole of a run that is producing and get pissed when someone walks in below you. Its like getting pissed when someone casts over you at KWB. When a run is really producing the anglers that fish there every day are like a pack of wild dogs out there looking for a piece of action with new dogs showing up everyday! If you choose to fish these runs you have no right to complain about it!!!

Quote
Unfortunatly you are correct.

Quote
x3

Quote
crowding is inevitable and some rules made in another era need to be adjusted to reflect reality.

LOL! You must be lower-river meatheads then. ;D

Quote
]Wow!, lol.  if you dont like the crowds, why are you fishing there. go explore, do a bit of hiking. theres lots of places on the vedder where there is no one fishing.

Bingo, Norton. Especially in the Upper and Mid river. :)
The more you move, the better the chances to find some empty undisturbed water... ;)
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sterling C on February 13, 2012, 09:33:23 PM
wow!, lol.  if you dont like the crowds, why are you fishing there. go explore, do a bit of hiking. theres lots of places on the vedder where there is no one fishing. if i see a bunch of fisherman in a run , thats the last place im going. today i landed and released a wild fish and there wasnt a soul in sight. im all for starting at the top of a run and working down, but some fisherman stand in the same place for hours. what are you supposed to do, sit on a log , and watch them, until they move?

You ask if you can fish below them. If they truly are fence posting they'll let you fish below them.

I remember being the only one fishing a big run (think 500) and having another fisherman walk in no less 30 feet below me and then walk out waste deep into the river. I politely asked him to put in above me which he ignored. The funniest thing happened, the fish started schooling up around his feet so naturally I started drifting to where the fish were. I even think I got a few bites but every time I set the hook I missed. He left shortly after and the fish swam back out to where they normally lie.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Bandit420 on February 14, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
Me and my buddy were fishing a run and we were at the tailout. There was one guy who was fishing the head of the run and he was slowly making his way down. These two low holers came down, didnt even ask the guy if they could fish below him and started fishing 20ft from the guy. I think it was 3 or 4 casts in the one guy closest to the head of the run(low holer) hooked into a steel but lost it after about 30 seconds. The guy that was originaly fishing the run obviously noticed this and just stepped back from the run and just sat down on a near by log. I felt really bad for this guy because that basically should have been his fish. The low holer after hooking into that fish was instantly on his phone bragging away to someone and had no regard or respect for buddy. Atleast the low holer lost that fish because he didnt deserve to land it  ;D
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Dennis.t on February 14, 2012, 01:53:57 PM
K.W.B., Canel, Lickman road etc.., most of the lower section. It was crazy at the weekend..But most of the fish are pull out from there..
I avoid those places like a" fat kid avoids vegetables".It only takes one fish to make my day.To get that fish with no one else around is heaven on earth.I hope you fellas keep crowding each other out in the lower end.Makes for less people where i like to fish."NEWS FLASH" there fish spread out the entire system!!! ;)
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: joy-of-fishing on February 14, 2012, 02:39:03 PM
Bandit420,

How was that fish basically his? He didnt hook it or catch it? I walk up to people on runs all the time, and will catch fish even if the person was there all day. The river belongs to everyone so I don't see a problem with you guys and "low holers." I dont fish steelhead runs with people on them. But seriously anyone who complains about a "low holer" is a "big whiner."
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Bandit420 on February 14, 2012, 02:55:23 PM
Joyoffishing, its called common courtesy and BASIC fishing etiquete. low holing and low holers(im not going to name anyone), is just plain arrogant and selfish and makes for confrontation. you say that you dont fish runs with people on it yet you said you will catch a fish with people fishing the run, so make up your mind. That fish was basically his because he was fishing the head of the run and he would have likely caught it if that guy(low holer) didnt barge in and cast below him.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandy on February 14, 2012, 04:17:40 PM
X3

like it or not; it's a put and take fishery, the merits of which will often lead to heated debates. That said, when more mobile I had more satisfaction trecking and fishing pocket water, whether with gear or fly and very often I met and chatted with good, like minded souls.
Never could seem to be comforatable in that over crowded lower section, though again ,sometimes I met folks that were helpful and pleasant to be with.
My brother on the other hand often fished low down and was not one to mess with, seemed he would enforce the rules PDQ should an oaf or bully appear on the scene, no matter what river!
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: milo on February 14, 2012, 05:19:23 PM
While you may occasionally meet a nice guy or two in the busier sections of the lower river, it seems that the farther you fish from the road/parking areas, the nicer the people you encounter. Case in point:

Last Saturday while working my way downstream with DRP79, we got to a beautiful run in the middle of nowhere. There was one lonely spey caster fishing a truly succulent tail-out. Don and I kept working our way downstream until I was maybe 20 yards above the guy. At that point, he stopped fishing and walked towards me and offered me to have a crack at the prime water. We exchanged some pleasantries and even made a fly swap on the spot. He then proceeded to fish the top pf the run while first myself, and later Donny, got to fish the tail-out. The whole experience put a huge smile on my face. :)

Such things hardly ever happen in the lower river areas...too many me-me-meatheads.
Title: Low holers!
Post by: skitterbug on February 17, 2012, 08:36:39 PM
90% of people I find are very polite when fishing. When ever I come to run, I always ask if I can go below them if they're not moving, never had a problem yet and I've had some good conversations aswell. People seem very relieved when I ask them, rather than plunking myself below them.

Everyone that I've talked to says "low holing" the worst they've ever seen it. Why is this?

I was having a very enjoyable day fishing with my Dad, when a guy stepped in 5 ft below him and casted over his line!!! I've decided this is a form of BULLYING, he didn't get a reaction from my father or myself, not worth having a confrontation, but because we didn't say anything he got away with it. How do you handle getting "low holed" without violence?

For those of you that can't play nice in the sandbox, ever heard of a thing called Karma???

Thank you for the guys that "get it" , you rock and never lower your standards to these bullies.

Title: Re: Low holers!
Post by: Rodney on February 17, 2012, 09:15:47 PM
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29407.0
Title: Re: Low holers!
Post by: DanJohn on February 17, 2012, 09:45:51 PM
90% of people I find are very polite when fishing. When ever I come to run, I always ask if I can go below them if they're not moving, never had a problem yet and I've had some good conversations aswell. People seem very relieved when I ask them, rather than plunking myself below them.

Everyone that I've talked to says "low holing" the worst they've ever seen it. Why is this?

I was having a very enjoyable day fishing with my Dad, when a guy stepped in 5 ft below him and casted over his line!!! I've decided this is a form of BULLYING, he didn't get a reaction from my father or myself, not worth having a confrontation, but because we didn't say anything he got away with it. How do you handle getting "low holed" without violence?

For those of you that can't play nice in the sandbox, ever heard of a thing called Karma???

Thank you for the guys that "get it" , you rock and never lower your standards to these bullies.



Just talk to him. You dont have to get super angry, or completely sarcastic and obnoxious and rude. But you can spark up a conversation with the person, and maybe find out WHY they did what they did. If they dont know any better, as in its their first season, let them know what low holing is, why its rude, and preventative measures for the future. Or, if they do know what it is, and that they just did it, push em in the water.

Or, just call them on their BS and move on. LOW HOLE THEM HARDER! Go 2 feet below them.

Personally, I got low holed once. At an extremely small system no less. You could tell these guys thought they owned the river. They knew what they were doing, and Im sure felt quite entitled to the spot they were in. I was fishing a tiny run, and bam. 3 of em move in within 6 feet of me. I didnt say anything, as I knew they were just being dicks. I simply casted my fly line with zero grace, made em nervous, and then let my drift go an extra 20 feet down stream. If they want to come into MY space, they can work around me (Read: Not MY water, but my personal, and casting space.)
Title: Re: Low holers!
Post by: DRP79 on February 17, 2012, 10:37:03 PM
This happened a few times to me this summer near a popular meathole and what I did was make sure to use a good side arm cast using my 10.5 foot rod nd the guy beside me was, whoa crap. I just pleaded ignorance, said sorry and he moved away, lol.
Title: Re: Low holers!
Post by: opwins on February 17, 2012, 10:41:55 PM
Most new fishermen dont understand the proper procedue, and some reason that "you" dont own the river which makes me chuckle.  But the the reality is that certain people do feel entitlement and they do know better....sad!  I got low holed badly a couple times last week.....  I simply left and moved on, as much as I want to say something its not always worth the trouble.  With so much river, I choose spots off the beaten path ;-)
Title: Re: Low holers!
Post by: firebird on February 17, 2012, 11:14:45 PM
How do you handle getting "low holed" without violence?

Ummmm .... stay there and put up with it or move on?
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Rantalot on February 18, 2012, 09:55:38 AM
with as busy as the river gets there seems to be no way to avoid it . I have some injuries that limit my walking but i try to do as much as possible but some days i just can't ! so does that mean i cant fish because i cant get away from the totem pole people?  If i come to a run with a few people and ask but dont get a response then hell ya i'm going to toss in where i can :-\
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: blacktail2 on February 18, 2012, 10:55:26 AM
I too have some injuries that make it difficult to fish certain spots on the river, but being a keen fisherman and having my two sons with me we ventured out to the Chehailus this past coho season to do a little fishing. Those of you that know the area know just how tough it can be to get in there. At any rate we were fishing a certain section of the river evenly spaced out from near the top of the pool to the tailout. In comes a guy not twenty feet from me and wades right out into the river spooking all the coho, and nearly being swept away after stumbling and falling. My kids watched this in amazement and shrugged their heads. This guys actions made it near impossible for me to fish, he thought nothing of casting across my line many times resulting in some very nasty tangles.It was a bullying tactic to get me to move. Everytime he hooked my line from casting over it he always yanked the line towards him and untangled it. I tried giving him the stink eye a couple of times but he was clueless and actually reminded me of some Hill Billy from the movie "Deliverance". This was far from having no clue, it was a case of plain old bullying and arrogance.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Rantalot on February 18, 2012, 11:07:09 AM
That's when you cast over him and snag him in the my friend and go oops my bad :)
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandy on February 18, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
While you may occasionally meet a nice guy or two in the busier sections of the lower river, it seems that the farther you fish from the road/parking areas, the nicer the people you encounter. Case in point:

Last Saturday while working my way downstream with DRP79, we got to a beautiful run in the middle of nowhere. There was one lonely spey caster fishing a truly succulent tail-out. Don and I kept working our way downstream until I was maybe 20 yards above the guy. At that point, he stopped fishing and walked towards me and offered me to have a crack at the prime water. We exchanged some pleasantries and even made a fly swap on the spot. He then proceeded to fish the top pf the run while first myself, and later Donny, got to fish the tail-out. The whole experience put a huge smile on my face. :)

Such things hardly ever happen in the lower river areas...too many me-me-meatheads.

at one time very common,

but remember the'res good everywhere ::) even on the lower section  :o
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Fish Assassin on February 18, 2012, 02:40:49 PM
That's when you cast over him and snag him in the *** and go oops my bad :)

Exactly
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: joy-of-fishing on February 18, 2012, 04:11:36 PM
Some people fencepost some runs and when you enter the top of the run and start pushing down the people just get agitated and mad. When you jump and walk past them they get all mad and what not. Would that be considered low holing?
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandy on February 18, 2012, 04:19:32 PM
The very reason that "rotational or cast and step" angling is enforced in many jurisdictions many of those same jurisdictions also have a no mixed methods/style , ie: the run is being fished by a fly angler, the gear guy has to wait until it's clear and visa verse. My home river was that way until the advent of methods were control ed by water heights. ie: gear(spinning) or worming (pins) and fly (sunk or dry ) on top of the rotational rules ( when another angler is/was waiting) under twelves were exempt from method rules.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Rantalot on February 18, 2012, 04:34:38 PM
How about first come first serve??? If i get to the river at 4:30 am to get to a certain spot why should i move?? Just a scenario :)
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: RalphH on February 18, 2012, 04:58:36 PM
There's more, actually.
Read this article and check the regs...easy to figure them out.  ;)

http://www.steelheadermag.com/probertsteelheading.html
It's  not clear how old this article is as many of the streams he mentions do not receive hatchery plants & haven't for years and have very few steelhead. Some stuff defies credibility (a 30lbs steelhead from Weaver Creek?) and he doesn't know anything about the Coq' before the construction of the highway.That he repeatedly refers to Cogburn Creek as "Cogbum" is pretty indicative of his expertise in such maters.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandy on February 18, 2012, 05:03:50 PM
here or there?
here, depending on your style/method. If your style is dependant on more light, that would have been your choice. If the other angler feels conditions suits him/her then have at it. That is not low holing. No angler has the right to inhibit the other from fishing, I'd say.

There, fence posting was and is considered poor sportsmanship and is not tolerated and in fact the offender may well be in danger of grievous bodily harm. In cases that I have come across where multiple anglers are waiting to fish or just happen to arrive at the same time and that is if there is not a (dark ban) or where fishing is only allowed 30 min before sunrise and 30 after sunset. I think that rule was lifted in order to allow for night fishing for Seatrout, so no need to wait and the normal rules apply, or face the consequences ::)

Don't forget that very often there is a waiting list just to get onto the season ticket list or even the day list, so why would anyone jeopardise their chances of returning. Getting a report or written up is almost sure to get you banned from the water and bad reputations travel fast therefore it may become hard to even get a day ticket... anywhere.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Athezone on February 20, 2012, 08:43:51 AM
Fishing can sometimes be like driving. Sometimes you'll find courtesy and other times aggressiveness and outright stupidity. It's up to each of us as to how we react to each one. There have been some great responses in this thread, very well thought out and gives the reader many choices to choose from.

For me, as I near the the ripe old age of 60, and having survived this long by sticking to a life long rule of violence is never the answer or a solution to a problem. I try not to get into peeing matches with river bullies or entitled sportsmen. Life is to short and I go fishing for fun and enjoyment, not to fight.

Hell if I'm going to argue with someone I could stay home with my wife and do that. ;D Now thats not to say that I'm just a turn-the-cheek, pacifist kind of guy as I believe and as I've taught my kids that one should stand up for oneself. But pick your battles and be sure that the battle is worth the effort.

When I fish the Vedder or any other river I try to fish as I drive. Respectful and courteous of the other drivers around me. And if someone wants to drive like a crazy man I would just shake my head, laugh a little and continue on my way. If I am fishing and someone low holes me or moves in on my spot I would probably talk calmly to him/her and explain how I feel and test their response.

If they are insulting, aggressive or just ignore me then I would most likely continue fishing and not get into a situation. Afterall most rivers are big enough that there are lots of spots to fish and I also believe that in the end Karma will bite that person in the my friend.
At the end of the day I want to look back at my fishing experience as fun, relaxing and enjoyable and Not think about some peeing match that I could of won or lost.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: chris gadsden on February 20, 2012, 09:22:55 AM
Fishing can sometimes be like driving. Sometimes you'll find courtesy and other times aggressiveness and outright stupidity. It's up to each of us as to how we react to each one. There have been some great responses in this thread, very well thought out and gives the reader many choices to choose from.

For me, as I near the the ripe old age of 60, and having survived this long by sticking to a life long rule of violence is never the answer or a solution to a problem. I try not to get into peeing matches with river bullies or entitled sportsmen. Life is to short and I go fishing for fun and enjoyment, not to fight.

Hell if I'm going to argue with someone I could stay home with my wife and do that. ;D Now thats not to say that I'm just a turn-the-cheek, pacifist kind of guy as I believe and as I've taught my kids that one should stand up for oneself. But pick your battles and be sure that the battle is worth the effort.

When I fish the Vedder or any other river I try to fish as I drive. Respectful and courteous of the other drivers around me. And if someone wants to drive like a crazy man I would just shake my head, laugh a little and continue on my way. If I am fishing and someone low holes me or moves in on my spot I would probably talk calmly to him/her and explain how I feel and test their response.

If they are insulting, aggressive or just ignore me then I would most likely continue fishing and not get into a situation. Afterall most rivers are big enough that there are lots of spots to fish and I also believe that in the end Karma will bite that person in the ***.
At the end of the day I want to look back at my fishing experience as fun, relaxing and enjoyable and Not think about some peeing match that I could of won or lost.
One of the best posts here. There certainly is lots of places to fish the Chilliwack River if one wants to look around, move around and avoid the large popular runs. Out of the 9 fish I have landed this season 8 have been in runs no one else was fishing.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandy on February 20, 2012, 11:23:56 AM
One of the best posts here. There certainly is lots of places to fish the Chilliwack River if one wants to look around, move around and avoid the large popular runs. Out of the 9 fish I have landed this season 8 have been in runs no one else was fishing.

that's just it, I had more satisfaction wandering around than mixing it up in the crowd.

re: rules elsewhere, I only post them in comparison. I'd much have what we have here foibles included, than having to spend a month or so's salary to fish a mile or so stretch of a river.

carpenter earns approx 13-14 hr season ticket ( licence equivalent ) 475.00 if you can get one!
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: skitterbug on February 23, 2012, 08:47:35 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.

How many of you truely believe in Karma?

I see guys that lowhole somebody, leave their garbage by the river, throw their cigarettes in the river and they still catch more fish than me!

I don't even drop a 1" piece of line on the ground after I snip it. Still waiting for that Karma to kick in, getting a little frustated not hooking into one yet!!!!
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Grey Fox on February 25, 2012, 08:46:58 AM
I've lived for 65 yrs ...I've witnessed Karma retrieve its "pound o flesh" so many times that its more difficult not to believe in it.

Do something nasty in life and you may not pay for it right away but believe me ....Some Day....Some way....you WILL pay

Karma can be a total bitch, mess with her at your peril ;)
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Baysel on February 25, 2012, 09:34:56 AM
This is an interesting topic, as a newer angler I must say I didn't know all this a couple months ago when i started fishing. I would be all to open to any advice on angling or etiquette anyone was willing to give me on the river. Unfortunately I find most of the seasoned anglers out there have lost all patients when it comes to passing on the info, you all had to learn it somewhere as well.

The other week my girl friend was on the river (first season as well) with one of her other girl friends, (first day out) and they "low holed" some guy, they claim they were over a hundred feet down stream and this guy blew up, looked like he may have a stroke or something he was so worked up. I guess the guy was swearing and spitting?? Anyways had this guy come down and said hey, just so you know  . . . I know they would have apologized and moved further down. they were both bummed about it, made then not want to fish there anymore, at least not on the vedder.

Had I been there . . . I would have thrown him into the river to help cool him off.

Take it easy on the newbies out there, if you don't at least explain yourself how can you be sure people are ***'s and not just learning? I have never seen such a competative, unfriendly sport before,
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Athezone on February 27, 2012, 01:33:24 AM
So sorry to hear of your girlfriend and her friend encountering "river rage" Baysel but it does happen. Just like you encounter driver's on the road that have very little disregard for respect or for you and display bad sportsmanship or dare I say, driver-ship.
I wish it was different but it is what it is. Deal with it. Or the better thing to say is, learn to deal with it.

Our actions display how we deal with different situations and perhaps your girlfriend or her friend should of walked the 100 ft. to this fellow and calmly asked him what the problem was. Not in an aggressive manner, but totally polite. I can almost guarantee you he would of calmed down quite quickly and spoke with you. Most men are not abusive towards women, (I hope) and he would of spoken, you would of learned and he would of said, (hopefully), awww, what the hell. Go ahead and fish !!!

If you resort to violence what makes you better than this fellow. No ! Better to learn from the experience and expand and grow. Life is so short. Don't waste it by being angry and peed off at this fellows actions. I'm sorry also that you find most anglers not open to discuss their knowledge because I don't encounter that when I'm on the river and on this forum I've learned more than I could ever telll you.

I will say that if you need help, knowledge or just want to meet me on the river sometime and compare techniques just leave me a message and it shall be done. If you can't leave messages then just submit a message to this thread and I will make sure you have my contact info. Wishing you the Best Baysel.

Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Baysel on February 27, 2012, 08:32:34 AM
Yup I agree with life being to short to be pissed off. Had it been me I would have had a good laugh I think, maybe wouldn't have diffused the situation but probably how I would have dealt with it. I think i got more worked up over it than normal cause if situations like this turn my GF and her friends off fishing it going to directly cut into my fishing time  ;).

Your also right, the online fishing world is very friendly, I was really relieved to see it was different than my on river encounters.

I also do a bit of whitewater kayaking and I may have been biased slightly from the start. The Chilliwack River is the only place I run into issues with Fisherman while kayaking. I always try to move opposite side of the river, not paddle or splash around and if someone has a fish on down stream Ill pull over well above and wait till there done. As with all things though there are paddlers and fisherman that think they own the river, I think doing both has given me a better appreciation for the situation. Its usually the guys throwing rocks that havnt caught anything this year, probably comes back to that Karma thing again though.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Sandman on February 27, 2012, 09:59:39 PM
It's  not clear how old this article is as many of the streams he mentions do not receive hatchery plants & haven't for years and have very few steelhead. Some stuff defies credibility (a 30lbs steelhead from Weaver Creek?) and he doesn't know anything about the Coq' before the construction of the highway.That he repeatedly refers to Cogburn Creek as "Cogbum" is pretty indicative of his expertise in such maters.

Ralph, I think you may be a little hard on Richard. Richard Probert has been fishing and writing about fishing for years and his "expertise," the best I can tell, has come from solely from those years of fishing in the lower mainland.  Not exactly "expertise" but more "personal experience."  He apparently kept detailed journals of his fishing trips and used them later in his writings.  The "Cogbum" reference could be a simple typeface issue (he could have, like many old time writers, used an old fashion typewriter) or where the editor took the "r" and the "n" and made it an "m."   I am not sure what you meant by his not knowing anything about the Coq before the construction of the highway (or gas pipline...or fibre optic cable crossings) as he does say it was a world class fishery and from what I recall from the 70s it was indeed a world class run of 5-8 pound aggressive summer steel.  His reference in this article to the six week opening on the Coq dates the article to 1996, so it is certainly outdated today and many of the streams he mentions have since deteriorated and their steelhead runs with it.   That said, his reference to his friend's 30 pound steelhead in Weaver certainly sounds like a tall fish tale.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Riverman on February 29, 2012, 06:30:26 AM
Having fished with you in the past i have seen your philosophy in action and commend you for it Athezone.Live long and prosper.
Title: Re: Steelheading, crowding, Lower Mainland hatchery steelhead fisheries
Post by: Athezone on February 29, 2012, 11:08:13 AM
Having fished with you in the past i have seen your philosophy in action and commend you for it Athezone.Live long and prosper.



Thank You Riverman, very kind of you to say that and I can say the same about you. Class all the way.  Wishing you all the Best Riverman !
 Live long and prosper and I'll see you on the flow.  8)