Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: blacktail2 on January 14, 2012, 07:29:26 PM
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Wow ...
I was cruising through the forums and ran across an old post that said a fisherman or fishermen were ticketed on the Cap for using a Jensen egg and were told it was considered bait.
Jensen eggs bait ?? I think that for a C.O to ticket you for using a rubber Jensen egg with a hint of Anise on it is either bored and hasn't written a ticket for awhile or he has nothing better to do. That's a bit of a stretch if you think about it, rubber has its own smell so could an unscented Jensen egg be considered bait? To me bait is roe, worms, prawn tails etc not a synthetic piece of rubber with a little anise on it. I am pretty sure i am not the only one that feels this way and think they should use their time a little more wisely and go after something worth while like freighters or cruise ships pumping out bilges or logging companies logging right up to a stream bed. Take them and throw a few in your pocket and run them through the washing machine. I am not sure whether or not steelies or salmon are really attracted to this smell ?? I am pretty sure it is the colour and have picked up an old egg rolling around the bottom of the drift boat and hooked steelies on them !
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Bait is anything with a scent. The rule is in black and white in the regs and it's as simple as that.
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Bait is anything with a scent. The rule is in black and white in the regs and it's as simple as that.
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So true, almost every single rubber artificial bait has a scent so they should all be considered bait then?? Seems to me to be a little bit of a stretch from what i have read is its up to the discretion of the CO.
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I'm glad to see CO's doing enforcement of the rules/reg's/laws. Know the regulations or pay the consequences, don't take it out on the CO's for doing the job we've asked them to do.
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As much as the jensen egg is considered bait in the regs, and it is illegal to use during a bait ban, in my personal opinion I strongly disagree with the bait ban on the capilano in the fall. All the fish in there with the exception of the few steelhead are 100% hatchery fish. The progeny is all from a california brood coho transplanted way back when. Sure it is important to protect the steelhead and I agree with this part of it, but it seems that steelhead will bite at artificials just as much as they would bait, and having a bait ban doesn't really change much other than the fact that guys at the cable pool resort to flossing and snagging instead of allowing the coho to take a freshly cured piece of roe. I believe Rodney even caught a summer-run using a pink jig during the bait ban - I don't see the point of the bait ban.
My two cents...
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As much as the jensen egg is considered bait in the regs, and it is illegal to use during a bait ban, in my personal opinion I strongly disagree with the bait ban on the capilano in the fall. All the fish in there with the exception of the few steelhead are 100% hatchery fish. The progeny is all from a california brood coho transplanted way back when. Sure it is important to protect the steelhead and I agree with this part of it, but it seems that steelhead will bite at artificials just as much as they would bait, and having a bait ban doesn't really change much other than the fact that guys at the cable pool resort to flossing and snagging instead of allowing the coho to take a freshly cured piece of roe. I believe Rodney even caught a summer-run using a pink jig during the bait ban - I don't see the point of the bait ban.
My two cents...
I think the principle of the bait ban is that it reduces the number of deeply hooked fish which are a problem if you want to release them. While it is true that steelhead will take an artificial, it is probably also true that more fish are hooked deeply on roe than on artificials which do not feel as natural so the fish do not swallow them as much. It probably does not save as many fish as it could by discouraging flossing., but I do not mind the ban.
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That's a bit of a stretch if you think about it, rubber has its own smell so could an unscented Jensen egg be considered bait?
“Bait” is any foodstuff or natural substance used to attract fish, other than wood, cotton, wool, hair, fur or feathers. It does not include fin fish, other than
roe. It includes roe, worms and other edible substances, as well as scents and flavourings containing natural substances or nutrients.
This is straight from the regs
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--I agree the reg is black and white.
--Use of circle hook with bait greatly reduces the chance of deep hook and eases the release of caught fish.
--I do not agree with using rules when they are not necessary. Pun intended this opens a big can of worms...I have now seen more than one urban pond which was to be used for kids of family fishing days have painted turtles planed in them by people who do not believe in fishing... these people then complain to MOE that the protected turtles are being harassed and demand the fishing area be shut down.
--If the area is a true conservation concern I'm all for doing whatever we can to protect it and enhance the environment if that is necessary.
--It sickens me to hear that after many years of meeting the greatest announced strategy by the provincial fisheries committee is that they believe they are close to getting a bait ban on the Thompson. Get on with identifying and working on real problems rather than agendas of personal preference.
--When I fly fish I use flyrod and line and use wool hair, fur feathers etc.. When I use weighed fly epoxied fly bead head, swivel etc. I call if fishing with fly gear not fly fishing.
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As much as the jensen egg is considered bait in the regs, and it is illegal to use during a bait ban, in my personal opinion I strongly disagree with the bait ban on the capilano in the fall. All the fish in there with the exception of the few steelhead are 100% hatchery fish. The progeny is all from a california brood coho transplanted way back when. Sure it is important to protect the steelhead and I agree with this part of it, but it seems that steelhead will bite at artificials just as much as they would bait, and having a bait ban doesn't really change much other than the fact that guys at the cable pool resort to flossing and snagging instead of allowing the coho to take a freshly cured piece of roe. I believe Rodney even caught a summer-run using a pink jig during the bait ban - I don't see the point of the bait ban.
My two cents...
There is no doubt that ripping and all kinds of bad behavior kicks in full force after the bait ban begins in August and it is discouraging to a lot of fisherman, myself included. However, DFO is approaching this from a point of protecting an endangered run of cap summer steelhead, so lifting a bait ban on a basically put and take salmon fishery is not going to happen unless there is a meaningful recovery of the summer run population. Unfortunately, I personally think that this is a rather wishful thinking under present circumstances.
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So true, almost every single rubber artificial bait has a scent so they should all be considered bait then??
“Bait” is any foodstuff or natural substance used to attract fish, .........as well as scents and flavourings containing natural substances or nutrients.
Anise (which is natural) falls into this catagory and you have to draw the line somewhere as there is always someone trying to find the loop hole:
which you haven't been able to find yet!
P.S. Although I agree that some rules and regs seem silly or pointless they are there and if one doesn't like the additional challenges they provide in the pursuit of a fish one could stop fishing and take up golf.
(But be warned: there's a few rules in that sport as well).
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could stop fishing and take up golf.
(But be warned: there's a few rules in that sport as well).
not in my books, just grip it and rip it ;)
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“Bait” is any foodstuff or natural substance used to attract fish, other than wood, cotton, wool, hair, fur or feathers. It does not include fin fish, other than
roe. It includes roe, worms and other edible substances, as well as scents and flavourings containing natural substances or nutrients.
This is straight from the regs
But there is a legal alternative right? :D :D :D
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rub·ber 1 (rbr)
n.
1. A yellowish, amorphous, elastic material obtained from the milky sap or latex of various tropical plants, especially the rubber tree, and vulcanized, pigmented, finished, and modified into products such as electric insulation, elastic bands and belts, tires, and containers. Also called caoutchouc, India rubber.
2. Any of numerous synthetic elastic materials of varying chemical composition with properties similar to those of natural rubber.
3. A low overshoe made of rubber.
4. Baseball The rectangular piece of hard rubber that the pitcher must remain in contact with when making a pitch.
5. Something made of rubber, as:
a. An eraser.
b. A tire.
c. A set of tires on a vehicle.
6. Slang A condom.
7. One that rubs, especially one that gives a massage.
so rubber is not legal......this is getting silly.
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I guess using fully synthetic, non-natural scents is allowed 😄 mmm turpentine... (kidding)
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I don't actually think pink worms, eggs, gooey bobs, etc. are made of rubber. They are made of a plastic polymer, which I highly doubt comes from a rubber tree.
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Dion, your right. Plastisol is the product used to make plastic worms. It comes in a milky liquid form and is then heated to about 350 F before being hand poured or injected into a mold.
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I should clarify a few things here, the only reason I mentioned the Cap was because that is where a fisherman or two got tickets for using Jensen Eggs during a bait ban. I will be totally honest here I have not nor will I read the regs from cover to cover and was really surprised when I read about them being considered bait. Yes rules are rules and it doesn’t get any clearer when it is in black and white. I was mistaken when I made the comment they were made from rubber, I actually looked on the bottle and they are plastic according to the manufacturer. I fully support all efforts to conserve our fish stocks but I have lost count at the number of fish (salmon, steelhead ) I have caught on these things and have yet to see any of my fish hooked anywhere other than just inside the mouth and that goes for all the photos I see on this and several other forums. Now when push comes to shove all “synthetic” items emit an odour of some sort and depending on which day and who you ask could be considered a fish attractant. I can detect a slight odour from those pink worms we all like to fish should these be considered bait I don’t think so but that’s just my opinion. I just wanted to make a few points in my post and get some feed back from other anglers and point out a needless inconsistency in enforcement. I won’t be giving up fishing for golf any time soon and i can assure you I am not “Looking for a Loop Hole”. ::)
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No grey area here. Bait by definition gives off scent. Jensen eggs are bait because Jensen eggs have scent. The CO was just doing his job. Rubber eggs are also available at most shops and are not scented, and thus are safe to use where theres a bait ban.
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I should clarify a few things here, the only reason I mentioned the Cap was because that is where a fisherman or two got tickets for using Jensen Eggs during a bait ban. I will be totally honest here I have not nor will I read the regs from cover to cover and was really surprised when I read about them being considered bait. Yes rules are rules and it doesn’t get any clearer when it is in black and white. I was mistaken when I made the comment they were made from rubber, I actually looked on the bottle and they are plastic according to the manufacturer. I fully support all efforts to conserve our fish stocks but I have lost count at the number of fish (salmon, steelhead ) I have caught on these things and have yet to see any of my fish hooked anywhere other than just inside the mouth and that goes for all the photos I see on this and several other forums. Now when push comes to shove all “synthetic” items emit an odour of some sort and depending on which day and who you ask could be considered a fish attractant. I can detect a slight odour from those pink worms we all like to fish should these be considered bait I don’t think so but that’s just my opinion. I just wanted to make a few points in my post and get some feed back from other anglers and point out a needless inconsistency in enforcement. I won’t be giving up fishing for golf any time soon and i can assure you I am not “Looking for a Loop Hole”. ::)
I wont comment on your refusal to read the regulations "cover to cover," but the fact you have never seen fish deep hooked with a Jensen egg is possibly as much a reflection of your skill at strike detection as it is a property of the product. Many skilled fishermen who fish roe never deep hook their fish, but very few fish are deep hooked on a spoon or spinner even by the most out-to-lunch novice because the fish are hitting it out of aggression, not because it smells like food, and they going to spit it out right away because it does not taste or feel natural. Jensen eggs, because they look like bait and smell like bait, are treated like bait.