Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: milo on December 24, 2011, 12:16:21 PM
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I have a very strong opinion against all sorts of fishing derbies.
It is the derby mentality that has created the monstrosity that some fishing circuits in the USA especially, but also in Canada have become.
As soon as you throw some money and competition into the equation, the worst comes out of so many people.
No, I won't partake, but wish good luck to all those that will.
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I have a very strong opinion against all sorts of fishing derbies.
It is the derby mentality that has created the monstrosity that some fishing circuits in the USA especially, but also in Canada have become.
As soon as you throw some money and competition into the equation, the worst comes out of so many people.
No, I won't partake, but wish good luck to all those that will.
I agree and for the same reasons wont be attending.
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I agree and for the same reasons wont be attending.
Should no longer be Derbys of any kind.I will not attend.Have seen the demise of the Sun fishing Derby,Kask brothers derby,etc.Time to put this one to rest.Derbys have had there time and place, but are now no longer relevent in mordern times.
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Wow, hatch steelhead are there for a reason guys, it is a tradition to go up to kick off the season. A derby with a bunch of guys that fish ethically is okay by me. If you want to tackle the real problems that plague our local waters...go after the snaggers, long liners and poachers. Or our government who allow the netting of massive numbers of fish, and bi-catch caused by the harvest. A little bit of healthy competition never hurts anybody. But guess what nobody cares if you go or not, more room for me...oh and the money raised by the event goes towards the river and fish habitat by the way. Cheers.
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So I say throw them in the river...or teach them how to fish...one or the other...throwing them in the river is probably easier.
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I guess you guys have only fished the river on boxing day because every other day it seems like its 'derby mentality' here as well. Give your heads a shake, I wonder what has influenced more humans to fish, the derby or the internet. Duh. Instead of having fish porn and hero reports maybe a must read section on river etiquette would be benificial to you fellas.
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Derby or no derby, the main reason to go fishing is to catch fish [although I personally enjoy the whole experience]. And we don't want to just catch any fish...we want to catch a BIG one. It seems only normal for fishermen to want to compete, it's fun in the act and also telling our family and friends what great anglers we are.
I personally won't participate in the derby - but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing - most steelheaders generally know a little more than the average person about fishing and fish and will choose to participate ethically and sustainably. But, like mentioned before, steelheaders DO snag/floss - I saw a guy doing the good old vedder pullback on a group of old coho up top river yesterday thinking they were 'steelhead'.
Overall the derby won't do much harm other than perhaps taking out a dozen or so hatchery fish that are meant as put and take, which will probably be caught anyways and if you ask some might say it's actually good bc it keeps the run 'diverse' by maintaining a healthy number of 'purebred' wilds [ya right]... Another member also mentioned that the derby mentality exists every day - I agree - it's not just derbies that create this, any system during any time of year i'd say most guys who are out shoot for their limits. In any case, this derby does, after all, target hatchery fish and as such are of no major conservation concern. They could maybe have a derby where the fish are just measured that way people could submit hatchery/wild fish in the derby and win prizes based on photos of measurements of live fish...But in any case, to each their own.
Have fun out there guys and good luck.
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I was under the impression that the wild run of fish on the Vedder were historically summer run fish, and that unclipped winter runs were just unclipped hatchery fish. I have no source for this information, but have heard from a couple of people. Can anyone comment on the validity of this claim?
Jon
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I'm pretty sure that is incorrect.
All released hatchery steelhead are required to be, and as far as I know, all clipped.
Although there is some disagreement, historically the Vedder/Chilliwack doesn't have nor had a summer run of steelhead. Although the occasional summer steelhead is caught, it's more probable that they are strays from other known Fraser valley summer run rivers or mended kelts that have not yet headed back to the salt. Usually a river with a summer run of steelhead has some kind of natural barrier that can only be passed earlier in the year with higher water and warmer temps.
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Derby or no derby, the main reason to go fishing is to catch fish [although I personally enjoy the whole experience]. And we don't want to just catch any fish...we want to catch a BIG one. It seems only normal for fishermen to want to compete, it's fun in the act and also telling our family and friends what great anglers we are.
I personally won't participate in the derby - but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing - most steelheaders generally know a little more than the average person about fishing and fish and will choose to participate ethically and sustainably. But, like mentioned before, steelheaders DO snag/floss - I saw a guy doing the good old vedder pullback on a group of old coho up top river yesterday thinking they were 'steelhead'.
Overall the derby won't do much harm other than perhaps taking out a dozen or so hatchery fish that are meant as put and take, which will probably be caught anyways and if you ask some might say it's actually good bc it keeps the run 'diverse' by maintaining a healthy number of 'purebred' wilds [ya right]... Another member also mentioned that the derby mentality exists every day - I agree - it's not just derbies that create this, any system during any time of year i'd say most guys who are out shoot for their limits. In any case, this derby does, after all, target hatchery fish and as such are of no major conservation concern. They could maybe have a derby where the fish are just measured that way people could submit hatchery/wild fish in the derby and win prizes based on photos of measurements of live fish...But in any case, to each their own.
Have fun out there guys and good luck.
In my case you could not be more wrong. I am one of the least competitive fisherman you will find. Growing up I played 3 sports and it was all about competition all the time. In my adult life that side of me is gone. I have nothing to prove to anyone and only fish for the fun. If anything was to become competitive to me I would quit doing it. I fish to relax and enjoy the company of my friends. Catching the biggest fish does not mean anything to me as well. Do I like catching big fish? Of course but not to be better than someone else.
Derbies bring out the bad side of people and thats the reason I am against it. Do any of you honestly think that their are not derby entrants doing anything they can to catch that one winning fish? Of course their are flossers and rippers out during the derby.
If you enjoy the derby than by all means enjoy it this is just my opinion and I dont think differently of anyone who does not believe what I believe.
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I have a very strong opinion against all sorts of fishing derbies.
It is the derby mentality that has created the monstrosity that some fishing circuits in the USA especially, but also in Canada have become.
As soon as you throw some money and competition into the equation, the worst comes out of so many people.
No, I won't partake, but wish good luck to all those that will.
So that must be a different Milo that has attended the Browns Bay Chum Derby on numerous occasions? ;D
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It's the same Milo, who hasn't attended a chum derby since 2009.
For me, the chum derby used to be an opportunity to hang out with my good friends, the late Dennis the Steelheader, Tadpole, and sometimes IronNoggin. Tad and I would never stay for the official weigh-in and the prizes anyway. We would take 8 freshly caught ocean chum each and bring them home - that was our prize - fresh ocean-caught salmon for the winter.
When in 2010 the chum stocks plummeted, we made the conscious decision not to partake although the derby did take place in spite of the dismal numbers. Then in December of the same year Dennis suddenly passed away and the chum derby became a memory and not something I looked forward to anymore.
My beef with fishing derbies is with what some people will do to win - blows your mind! That, and the fact that it turns an otherwise peaceful hobby into a competition.
If I wanted to compete with anyone or myself, I'd play golf. ;)
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It's the same Milo, who hasn't attended a chum derby since 2009.
For me, the chum derby used to be an opportunity to hang out with my good friends, the late Dennis the Steelheader, Tadpole, and sometimes IronNoggin. Tad and I would never stay for the official weigh-in and the prizes anyway. We would take 8 freshly caught ocean chum each and bring them home - that was our prize - fresh ocean-caught salmon for the winter.
When in 2010 the chum stocks plummeted, we made the conscious decision not to partake although the derby did take place in spite of the dismal numbers. Then in December of the same year Dennis suddenly passed away and the chum derby became a memory and not something I looked forward to anymore.
My beef with fishing derbies is with what some people will do to win - blows your mind! That, and the fact that it turns an otherwise peaceful hobby into a competition.
If I wanted to compete with anyone or myself, I'd play golf. ;)
It's one thing to not participate, and you have every right to do so. It's another thing to take a dump on everyone who does in a post. Would it have killed you to not post anything at all?
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It's one thing to not participate, and you have every right to do so. It's another thing to take a dump on everyone who does in a post. Would it have killed you to not post anything at all?
Excuse me?
"Take a dump on everyone who does in a post"?
What on Earth are you talking about? Where did I say what you accuse me of, or even implied it?
I only made a statement regarding what some people will do to win a fishing derby and how competitive it is - the reasons I dislike it.
Why is that 'crapping' on anyone?
As for the last part of your question, no, it wouldn't have killed me not to say anything at all, but the day we just all pat each other in the back and bury all sorts of controversy (on and off line) will be the day when we can all just start bleating.
The thread author posted a poll - I answered the poll and gave reasons why my answer is negative. You didn't like my answer...so suck it up princess.
It's a free country last time I checked. :D
Oh, and by the way...if there had been ANYTHING offensive in my replies, believe me, Dion would have been on my case faster than you can say fishing derby.
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Tell me about it...my girlfriend and I get to a run in the upper first light waiting...a fly chucker asked if he can fish the tail out... I requested we fish the run thru in sequence...he agreed. My girlfriend started first I followed and the chucker 3rd. My girlfriend is halfway thru the run...2 guys come in below her and start casting, in prime tailout water. I yelled down what r u guys doing? Next thing I know they are into a fish. My girlfriend has never caught a steelhead before. She was fishing some good bait, she probably would have caught that fish. I went up to these 2, and asked what the hell they think they are doing. They reply this is the Vedder it is always like that, and that it was a derby and that is the way it is. Well I read the rules and what they did goes against the rules, you can't walk in on guys working the run through. I replied that the river is like this because of people like you. It is one thing if you don't know better, but these 2 knew better, what a joke, great start to the morning. I remember what you guys look like I am going to make sure I beak you right out if I see you out there again. I will stand 2 ft away and start casting over your line, and let out a big stinky fart...or just throw some boulders into the water you are working...that will be fun...I hope you 2 read this and know who you are, a couple of f' jokes!
I have a picture of you guys but will refrain from posting.
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I remember what you guys look like I am going to make sure I beak you right out if I see you out there again. I will stand 2 ft away and start casting over your line, and let out a big stinky fart...or just throw some boulders into the water you are working...that will be fun...I hope you 2 read this and know who you are, a couple of f' jokes!
Not worth it, Mickey.
Don't stoop to their level.
Remember that in the end, they are the ones who have to live with themselves 24/7...and see their stupid mugs in the mirror every morning.
The excuse of "this is the Vedder" is one I have often heard when calling some people out on their lack of respect for fellow fishermen.
Believe me, it is the excuse given by losers, so please...don't stoop to their level.
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I have a picture of you guys but will refrain from posting.
I think you should post their picture. I mean they beaked you guys on your run so they at least deserve to be shamed.
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Hell ya shame them!!
I go fishing with my wife sometimes and I always give her first dibs on a run and I cant even count the number of times some my friend hats cut in.
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milo I highly doubt they have any bad feelings about what they did, nor do they mind looking at themselves in the mirror. If anything they probably do stupid poses in the mirror each morning lol. They did hook a fish so if anything they're going to be tail out bandits more in the future.
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milo I highly doubt they have any bad feelings about what they did, nor do they mind looking at themselves in the mirror. If anything they probably do stupid poses in the mirror each morning lol. They did hook a fish so if anything they're going to be tail out bandits more in the future.
You are probably right, but I prefer to think that it is at least somewhat annoying to be in their skin 24/7. I mean, imagine how pathetic their daily life must be for them to behave like a$$es on the flow.
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Very typical behavior on the Vedder. Not saying its right,but get used to it.With each passing year it gets worse.I have a million stories of rude behavior i have witnessed out on the flow.I shrug my shoulders and move on.Not worth getting into a fight over a fish.Theres just too many people fishing the river which turns it into "combat fishing". Not the place for women and children,im sad to say. :'(
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I have agreed with Dennis.t it getting worse every year. Being steelhead fishing the Chilliwack-Vedder river for over 32 years and I avoid the Boxing Day Derby fishing for more than 15 years.
Silex-user
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Wow. You guys have high hopes about etiquette on derby day. With something like 400 anglers on the river why would you think someone is going to wait for you?
It's basically salmon season.
In general I have not noticed an increase in bad behaviour during steelhead season except for fenceposting. I haven't been low holed in 4 years, but then I don't expect to claim a busy run to myself.
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If the Pikeminnow derby is on this year I'm going. Say what you want but I don't see anything wrong with what there doing trying to keep the Pikeminnow numbers down.
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Wow. You guys have high hopes about etiquette on derby day. With something like 400 anglers on the river why would you think someone is going to wait for you?
It's basically salmon season.
In general I have not noticed an increase in bad behaviour during steelhead season except for fenceposting. I haven't been low holed in 4 years, but then I don't expect to claim a busy run to myself.
With your attitude,your part of the problem.One should always ask his fellow angler working a run if hes working down,and if he is,then start above him.If hes taking too long to fish through,then let him know your going around him and continue on through.Basic river ettiquette, that is lost on the younger generation unfortunatly.Low holing an angler working through a run is rude behavior in my books. :-\
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Tell me about it...my girlfriend and I get to a run in the upper first light waiting...a fly chucker asked if he can fish the tail out... I requested we fish the run thru in sequence...he agreed. My girlfriend started first I followed and the chucker 3rd. My girlfriend is halfway thru the run...2 guys come in below her and start casting, in prime tailout water. I yelled down what r u guys doing? Next thing I know they are into a fish. My girlfriend has never caught a steelhead before. She was fishing some good bait, she probably would have caught that fish. I went up to these 2, and asked what the hell they think they are doing. They reply this is the Vedder it is always like that, and that it was a derby and that is the way it is. Well I read the rules and what they did goes against the rules, you can't walk in on guys working the run through. I replied that the river is like this because of people like you. It is one thing if you don't know better, but these 2 knew better, what a joke, great start to the morning. I remember what you guys look like I am going to make sure I beak you right out if I see you out there again. I will stand 2 ft away and start casting over your line, and let out a big stinky fart...or just throw some boulders into the water you are working...that will be fun...I hope you 2 read this and know who you are, a couple of f' jokes!
I have a picture of you guys but will refrain from posting.
So since what they did went against the rules of the tournament in your opinion, out of curiosity why didn't you inform the derby chairman? Chances are this would have been a far better punishment then farting on them, throwing rocks in the river or starting a fight in the future don't you think?
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--like the derbies... they have their place.
--check out kokanee power in USA... their derbies are fundraisers for fisheries enhancement.
--I would be somewhat ticked if as in some waters there are derbies every weekend... I can see the point of the locals thinking... when do we get some peace and quiet to just fish for fun.
--there are many ways to enhance derby experience... add on fishing lessons...new gear demo sites, casting comptetitions, like in many pro/am tourneys prizes go to charity of choice rather than the competator etc.