Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: katfish on November 14, 2011, 04:32:36 PM
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Do steelhead lose their eating quality the longer they are in the river like salmon? This will be my second year and I hope to get one this year :)
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yeah most definetly the chromer the fish the better for eating.
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Most of the time ,the chromer the fish the better for eating.But ive caught late season fish that have been chrome,mostly does and they have not been good eating because they were ready to spawn even though they were dime bright.The eggs were very large and ripe in the enlarged body cavity and the meat was not very tasty.You also want to stay away from bonking Kelts,that is spawned out fish that are mending and appear chrome but are very skinny and not good table fair.They should be allowed to return the saltwater.So if the fish is earlier season and chrome with sea lice and a hatchery then yeh,good for the table. ;D
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talking about keeping steelhead
is vedder river the only river we can keep steelhead? (one hatchery per day)
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No,there are other rivers that contain hatchery steelhead.
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so I was reading the regulation http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/1113/fishing-synopsis_2011-13_region2.pdf
says 2 hatchery steelhead per day in region 2 rivers expect 2 rivers with only one hatchery steelhead per day , which are CHEHALIS RIVER and VEDDER RIVER
and I have to stop fishing for steelhead once I got my daily limit. stamp is $25
correct me if i'm wrong
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correctomundo
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;D my first steelhead season starts
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btw, how does steelhead taste compare to coho? in the past months my conclusion is coho taste awesome...
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id suggest keeping only one steelhead a day anyways if you want your kids to do it.. thats if you even get the chance to play one ;)
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Kill every hatchery chromer you catch.
That's why they are there. If we released them all, funding for the hatchery would soon stop.
Good luck. I caught my first hatchery steelhead in my first season. A fluke...
It took me three years before I caught another keeper. ::)
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So if the fish is earlier season and chrome with sea lice and a hatchery then yeh,good for the table. ;D
Ah, sea lice are good ;D ;D
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Ah, sea lice are good ;D ;D
LOL! ;D
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Last season, every steelhead I landed at the Chedder was chrome but wild.
I think fishing mostly mid and upper river was the cause.
This year I think I wil spend more time in the lower river and get a keeper. ;D
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Last season, every steelhead I landed at the Chedder was chrome but wild.
I think fishing mostly mid and upper river was the cause.
This year I think I wil spend more time in the lower river and get a keeper. ;D
Luck of the Draw.Lots of hatchery fish make it to the mid and upper reaches.Lots of anglers such as myself release hatchery fish.Granted there are more hatchery fish lower river and a heck of alot more anglers as well.
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second season steelheading and i havent caught one yet..but i will not lose hope... ;)
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Definitely far better chances at hatchery fish in the lower and mid river. I would say about 90% of my Steelhead on the Vedder in the past have been wild and caught from the upper river (Tamahi and up).
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4th season steelheading, hopefully I will be able to manage something.
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Kill every hatchery chromer you catch.
That's why they are there. If we released them all, funding for the hatchery would soon stop.
Agreed. Well almost, every hatchery doe gets the rock shampoo. All others are released. ;D
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I release most of my hatcherys.I kill one or two per season for the table,to eat fresh.The family enjoys fresh steelhead.By letting go hatchery fish,it gives the new fellas a better chance at hooking one.Put your time in,fish correctly and keep your feet moving.You will have sucess.
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By letting go hatchery fish,it gives the new fellas a better chance at hooking one. ;)
so nice!
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Agreed. Well almost, every hatchery doe gets the rock shampoo. All others are released. ;D
Rock Shampoo! I am going to remember that one!
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most of the experienced rods tell m to move around to diff spots when steelheading. is this because there aren't many fish around, or because steelhead are constantly on the move and will bite anything that they cross paths with, therefore if you get no bites in one area after 10-15 minutes, then there probably aint fish there?
sorry for the beako question...
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As someone already said in another thread, steelheading is a gas intensive hobby as you have to go look for it than wait for it to come to you. If you feel you have covered the water well and get no bite, it's best to move on and look for other fish. Most experienced steelheaders develop their own circuit on the river and follow it. Even for productive spots, if no bites after a while, move on and come back later.
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As someone already said in another thread, steelheading is a gas intensive hobby as you have to go look for it than wait for it to come to you. If you feel you have covered the water well and get no bite, it's best to move on and look for other fish. Most experienced steelheaders develop their own circuit on the river and follow it. Even for productive spots, if no bites after a while, move on and come back later.
okay cool, I am doing something right then ;D
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Good luck. I caught my first hatchery steelhead in my first season. A fluke...
It took me three years before I caught another keeper. ::)
Methinks a few more are headed your way (again!) this coming season Buddy! I'll letcha know once the conveyor belt kicks in!! ;)
Looking Forward!! ;D
Cheers,
Nog
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btw, how does steelhead taste compare to coho? in the past months my conclusion is coho taste awesome...
Steelhead are decent, but aren't anything special as a food fish. That wouldn't be a worthwhile reason to pursue them. If you catch a hatchery fish, keep it! It doesn't do any good to let it go as they aren't supposed to spawn and doing to pollutes the wild gene pool.
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4 years in for me and still no hatchery fish. I'm happy with 6 wilds though since I don't get out much.
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Biggest tips for steelhead, don't floss, snag, drag bottom, or walk below somebody without asking or you will get thrown in the river, and believe me it is cold!!!! Keep the leader reasonable and just above the fishes head so they can see it, and wait for that float to rocket down, oh ya best part! Fish spots and cocentrate on spots within spots, grid the water, move on if no bites. Fish a good presentation all the time, I use bait mostly, but don't have to. On colder days it can be a pain. Some times they are tricky other times they hit anything, sometimes the switch is just turned on, I think due to temperature rising. Oh and If you don't catch a fish for a long time just give up to give me more space on the river.
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Biggest tips for steelhead, don't floss, snag, drag bottom, or walk below somebody without asking or you will get thrown in the river, and believe me it is cold!!!! Keep the leader reasonable and just above the fishes head so they can see it, and wait for that float to rocket down, oh ya best part! Fish spots and cocentrate on spots within spots, grid the water, move on if no bites. Fish a good presentation all the time, I use bait mostly, but don't have to. On colder days it can be a pain. Some times they are tricky other times they hit anything, sometimes the switch is just turned on, I think due to temperature rising. Oh and If you don't catch a fish for a long time just give up to give me more space on the river.
Steelhead are very seldom present in densities sufficient to make snagging/flossing effective over conventional gear.
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Keep your hatchery steelhead.
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Steelhead are decent, but aren't anything special as a food fish. That wouldn't be a worthwhile reason to pursue them. If you catch a hatchery fish, keep it! It doesn't do any good to let it go as they aren't supposed to spawn and doing to pollutes the wild gene pool.
There are no wild steelhead left in the Vedder. In the late seventies,the run of steelhead on the Vedder was in trouble.Hence the hatchery program was started and after many.many yrs of hatchery fish there is no wild gene pool left.
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Makes no difference if you choose to release hatchery fish.
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Biggest tips for steelhead, don't floss, snag, drag bottom, or walk below somebody without asking or you will get thrown in the river, and believe me it is cold!!!! Keep the leader reasonable and just above the fishes head so they can see it, and wait for that float to rocket down, oh ya best part! Fish spots and cocentrate on spots within spots, grid the water, move on if no bites. Fish a good presentation all the time, I use bait mostly, but don't have to. On colder days it can be a pain. Some times they are tricky other times they hit anything, sometimes the switch is just turned on, I think due to temperature rising. Oh and If you don't catch a fish for a long time just give up to give me more space on the river.
Luckily this form of "justice" doesn't exist on the Vedder or you'd see 90% of anglers that fish it floating down the river.
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As someone already said in another thread, steelheading is a gas intensive hobby as you have to go look for it than wait for it to come to you. If you feel you have covered the water well and get no bite, it's best to move on and look for other fish. Most experienced steelheaders develop their own circuit on the river and follow it. Even for productive spots, if no bites after a while, move on and come back later.
Agreed.Get out and explore.Put your time in.Find spots that feel right to you.Develop a circiut and work it ,hitting your preferred spots at different times through out the day.One can find a biting fish,no matter what the time of day is.
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There are no wild steelhead left in the Vedder. In the late seventies,the run of steelhead on the Vedder was in trouble.Hence the hatchery program was started and after many.many yrs of hatchery fish there is no wild gene pool left.
I dunno. I agree the gene pool is diluted (it has to be as I'm sure no one is naive enough to think hatchery fish have not bred in the river since the inception of the hatchery) but all broodstock has been wild and returning hatchery fish are but one generation from wild.
Technically you are right I suppose but I like to think those 18-20 lb'ers we saw spawning last spring were wild - hey, maybe it's me who is naive. :D
Anyone with some genetics training reading?
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http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/esd/documents/wild_and_hatchery_steelhead.pdf
http://www.chilliwackwatershedstrategy.ca/docs/Issues%20and%20Alt%20Reports/2008%2004%2014%20CRWS%20Issues%20%20Alt_Hatchery_DRAFT.pdf
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i usually own keep the first chrome hatchery doe of the seson sometimes 2 so that i can get roe for most the season and smoke them. and i fish the upper river and still get many hatcheries i find i get most the hatcheries in colder weather or snowy and early season in december i guess as less people so more chance for them to make it up. and a big help when steelheading is to fish 2 diffrent things through each spots usually ill fish bait and an artificial. best bait is ghost shrimp but roe works good to, an for an artificial blades, jigs, jensen eggs, and my secret thing ;D .remember dont be a fence post move often and choose a section of water and fish it and learn it, youll learn where the fish sit and catch more fish. also look for the spot within the spot so to speak for example the riffle water near the head of the run or the seams or pockets. once you figure out steelhead they are an easy fish to catch. i know this wasnt originally about steelhead fishing but just helping the begginers. oh and im always looking for ways to get to the river as i dont drive, i can get you into fish ;D
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i usually own keep the first chrome hatchery doe of the seson sometimes 2 so that i can get roe for most the season and smoke them. and i fish the upper river and still get many hatcheries i find i get most the hatcheries in colder weather or snowy and early season in december i guess as less people so more chance for them to make it up. and a big help when steelheading is to fish 2 diffrent things through each spots usually ill fish bait and an artificial. best bait is ghost shrimp but roe works good to, an for an artificial blades, jigs, jensen eggs, and my secret thing ;D .remember dont be a fence post move often and choose a section of water and fish it and learn it, youll learn where the fish sit and catch more fish. also look for the spot within the spot so to speak for example the riffle water near the head of the run or the seams or pockets. once you figure out steelhead they are an easy fish to catch. i know this wasnt originally about steelhead fishing but just helping the begginers. oh and im always looking for ways to get to the river as i dont drive, i can get you into fish ;D
Some good points! Just to elaborate on one point...When u find that spot within the spot.U will catch steelhead there all season long.The fish for whatever reason will chose the same sweet spot over and over again.
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i usually own keep the first chrome hatchery doe of the seson sometimes 2 so that i can get roe for most the season and smoke them. and i fish the upper river and still get many hatcheries i find i get most the hatcheries in colder weather or snowy and early season in december i guess as less people so more chance for them to make it up. and a big help when steelheading is to fish 2 diffrent things through each spots usually ill fish bait and an artificial. best bait is ghost shrimp but roe works good to, an for an artificial blades, jigs, jensen eggs, and my secret thing ;D .remember dont be a fence post move often and choose a section of water and fish it and learn it, youll learn where the fish sit and catch more fish. also look for the spot within the spot so to speak for example the riffle water near the head of the run or the seams or pockets. once you figure out steelhead they are an easy fish to catch. i know this wasnt originally about steelhead fishing but just helping the begginers. oh and im always looking for ways to get to the river as i dont drive, i can get you into fish ;D
Gimme a shout sometime. I drive and could no doubt use some help getting into fish on my first steelhead season.
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i have only caught 2 steelhead in the Vedder in 5 seasons (i suck/still learning steelheading). both were hatchery and both were in mid to upper reaches.
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Killing hatchery steelhead? eek, that's bad karma to me. I know a guy who killed one once and hasn't caught another steelhead since!
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There are no wild steelhead left in the Vedder. In the late seventies,the run of steelhead on the Vedder was in trouble.Hence the hatchery program was started and after many.many yrs of hatchery fish there is no wild gene pool left.
Who said Vedder?
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Luckily this form of "justice" doesn't exist on the Vedder or you'd see 90% of anglers that fish it floating down the river.
I fail to see the downside :)
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Applying to the hatchery genetics scenario.
I have the assumption that not all fish in the vedder are actually hatchery fish, and that there are definitely some wild genes left over. I hit some fish that take me for a run every year, and they fight noticeably different to me than the hatchery fish do.
By my logic the "hatchery fish" are wild fish that are just helped along a little - only once removed from the gene pool of wild fish. If that same hatchery fish would be spawned over and over each season then we would have a problem (possible inbreeding complications, etc). In the case of wild broodstock, if that hatchery fish goes and spawns in the wild, it is only 1 generation out of the wild gene pool and shouldn't effect the gene pool much, if at all. Those offspring are still wild fish, they need to hatch out of the ground, make it past all the predation from egg to smolt and have to fight for food just like every other wild fish does.
It actually baffles me when people say that all the fish in the river are hatchery fish. What makes a hatchery fish? Is it the fact that they are helped along a little in the first stages of life, or do you actually think there is a genetic contribution attributed with it? I personally believe a hatchery fish is one helped along, a wild fish is one that had to survive on it's own in the river. If that one that had to survive on it's own had a hatchery parent, I don't see that making it a "hatchery fish".
I'd love for someone to prove that this actually makes the gene pool weaker in the terms of wild brood stock. In the case of using hatchery fish year after year, then yes it could definitely have a huge effect on the gene pool. In my mind, if a fish makes it through everything and comes back to spawn on it's own, it's just as good as any wild fish whether it had a hatchery parent or not.
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I think it was either Matt or Dion that explained this earlier, and probably much better.
Anyhow, one of the reasons (other than having X number of fish with the same genetic profile) hatchery fish do not match up to wild fish is that you don't get the competition for breeding. ie. when two steelhead spawn in the river, the biggest baddest male will fertilize the best female eggs. If you take steelhead from the river and choose the two yourself (like they do in the hatchery) you won't get that optimum pairing.
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I'd love for someone to prove that this actually makes the gene pool weaker in the terms of wild brood stock. In the case of using hatchery fish year after year, then yes it could definitely have a huge effect on the gene pool. In my mind, if a fish makes it through everything and comes back to spawn on it's own, it's just as good as any wild fish whether it had a hatchery parent or not.
I see what you're saying but even if that fish makes it back after hatching in the river, it still started off with an inferior human-selected genetic profile.
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I think it was either Matt or Dion that explained this earlier, and probably much better.
Anyhow, one of the reasons (other than having X number of fish with the same genetic profile) hatchery fish do not match up to wild fish is that you don't get the competition for breeding. ie. when two steelhead spawn in the river, the biggest baddest male will fertilize the best female eggs. If you take steelhead from the river and choose the two yourself (like they do in the hatchery) you won't get that optimum pairing.
that argument still does not make all the fish in the river as hatchery fish, nor their genetics become "inferior."
as it is already very well explained above, and as long as both parents are taken only from wild stocks every time, that little bit of extra helps in hatcheries would only improve the initial survival and affect nothing else.
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ED, check Hood River Steelhead Genetics Study on goggle. It appears W X W crosses are not a problem.
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FWIW, DFO scientists (no jokes now ;)) can't see a genetic difference in hatchery vs wild Cultus Lake sockeye. But understand, this program is not a typical hatchery scenario. Because of such low numbers of wild brood fish (<50), a sophisticated egg taking protocol called matrix spawning (Google it) has been used since the recovery program began. This hatchery method has actually increased Cultus sockeye genetic diversity.
It's a labour intensive and therefor way more expensive, but nearly imperative technique when stocks are facing extinction
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Ok, What would you guys do If you were in the wally hall deby and you caught a late season Narster with enough size to take top place? A Double steripper, red and green.... Would you weight it in, knowing youll never consume it, or would you let it go and the winnings? ???
Is there anything wrong with consuming a coloured up steelhead, even though some will head back to ocean and clean up again?
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Theres a 1000 reasons to keep that "narster" ;D.
In my experience those big hatchery bucks don't last long enough to become nasty, as they seem to be as about agressive as they get and are probably caught numerous times before someone with the right gear lays down the rock shampoo.
It seems to me that a good number of the bigger fish are not entering the system quickly and arrive in the lower end slightly blushed when they do decide to come in, so many of the bigger fish weighed in are not chrome bars.
A slightly blushed male is still far better eating that a chrome winter hen who has put her energy into creating large skeins of eggs, but most people aren't killing steelhead for the meat, are they.
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Ok, What would you guys do If you were in the wally hall deby and you caught a late season Narster with enough size to take top place? A Double steripper, red and green.... Would you weight it in, knowing youll never consume it, or would you let it go and the winnings? ???
Is there anything wrong with consuming a coloured up steelhead, even though some will head back to ocean and clean up again?
Interesting and thought provoking BF. As we all know the adult hatchery fish are there to be harvested and the management strategy of the day, right or wrong, is to remove as many hatchery fish as possible; the stage of their life when they are killed is biologically irrevelent.
That said, I believe it all comes down to each individual angler as to what they would do if they were in a situation to make $1000.00 for killing a fish they may possibly have released were it not for this event. Last years largest fish in this derby was a coloured and sexually mature male. I know and respect the angler who won this derby and I applauded his acceptance of the grand prize.
I also know a relatively unknown FWR member who released a larger fish because it was coloured; his reason - $1000 was not worth the ridicule he would receive from his peers. I applauded that too.
It’s a moral decision and each angler has their own code, imo
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Kill the fish donate a portion of the prize money to a good cause!
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Kill the fish donate a portion of the prize money to a good cause!
Great idea!
Buy $1000 worth of steelhead feed and drop it off at the Chilliwack Hatchery. ;D
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You're a better man than me !
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Wow. Great replies and tips. Thx. My big mistake last year was not moving around enough. I sure won't make that mistake again!