Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Matt on October 14, 2011, 03:20:43 PM
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When you name a system, or a spot on a popular river that has been productive, or post a picture with an easily identifiable background, you WILL increase pressure on that location, making it less enjoyable for yourself AND others.
Not only does this negatively impact you when you get crowded out of a spot where there weren't many people before you posted it on the internet, but you anger other anglers who have been wise enough to keep their mouths closed. Many systems that get named far too often on the internet simply cannot cope with the pressure generated by many anglers.
Don't think one post can ruin a location? You're wrong. Several years ago if memory served correct, a FWR member did an experiment and posted that the mouth of the Seymour River was fishing well for pinks when in fact it hadn't been fishing well at all and almost no one was fishing it. The next day there were thirty (!!!) or so anglers packed on the shoreline all because of one single online report. The same thing happened to a friend of mine. He found some pinks, posted the previously-unpopular location and the next day it was packed with anglers, many of them directly mentioning to him that they read his report and showed up as a result. He strongly regretted posting a locatoin-specific report, don't let it happen to you. Posting pictures with easily identifiable backgrounds can also increase pressure if you post that you had a great day of fishing at that location.
Merely asking questions about smaller systems/ locations online can be detrimental as often someone who's fished the system once or twice doesn't really know the system well feels the need to reply and puts details on the internet that should really be obtained by wearing the soles out walking.
This isn't to say that the sharing of locations between anglers shouldn't happen, just the internet is the wrong venue to do share that information. Take into consideration that information you post online is visible to thousands of readers.
The greatest enjoyment and sense of accomplishment I've ever received from angling is from figuring out a system or lake on my own, without being told what rock to stand on. Here are some tips to figuring out a system:
- Check out a system and guess what waterlevel will fish well, and use the river level graphs to plan your return trip http://www.wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/text_search/search_e.html?search_by=p®ion=BC
- Use your knowledge of other local systems to take a guess at run/ hatch timing
- Use Google Maps to find likely fishing spots. While coastal drainages change from year to year, you can still get a sense of the lay of the land prior to going with Google Maps. Canyons, flats, estuaries, fish barriers, will all be visible and likely to remain in the same spot year after year.
- Put in your time on a given system, eventually, you'll figure it out and it will be very rewarding. Nothing can replace experience gained from putting in your time.
- Get to know the guys/girls at your local tackle shop. They will be more than willing to point you in the right direction once they see that you wouldn't be a pain to fish beside. Get to know them and they'll throw you a bone every once in a while.
- Act politely on any river, more experienced anglers are often willing to share other locations with anglers who are polite and that they wouldn't mind sharing a piece of water with.
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Sounds like your 'spot' got exposed. ;D
I feel your pain tho.
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this coming from a guy who posts photos openly on facebook with background for everybody to see where hes fishing ::) LOL!!!!!!
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Sounds like your 'spot' got exposed. ;D
I feel your pain tho.
Nope, its merely the frequency with which smaller systems that I know that can't tolerate a lot of pressure (but don't necessarily fish) end up being posted on the internet.
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sticky this
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Well put Matt.
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sticky this
+1 All member's should read this.
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When in doubt about where the fish was caught, report to the Stave
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Stave would be the place to fish this weekend for sure. Big fish and big numbers.
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True, but just a thought, if your even on this forum, it kinda screws up the theory...dontcha think? ::)
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True, but just a thought, if your even on this forum, it kinda screws up the theory...dontcha think? ::)
I'd disagree here. This is a great place for questions about methods (short floating as opposed to flossing), tackle tech etc.
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I'd disagree here. This is a great place for questions about methods (short floating as opposed to flossing), tackle tech etc.
True, thought I was in the fishing report section.
No doubt the internet has increased pressure on the systems, but more on the the already well known systems (Veddar, Fraser etc), some more, some less.
Still lots of good water out there. Born and raised in the lower mainland, still try to hit as many flows as I can find, exploration is truely the key.
But, if anyone remembers, there has always been fishing reports in printed medium, difference is instead of a small daily paragraph or 2 in the Vancouver Sun,
now we have the internet, both of which transfer the information. Some things never really change, other than the growth of the population of the lower mainland.
Pressure on the local systems would have increased none the less, give it 20 or 30 years and you'll think these were the good old days ;D
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give it 20 or 30 years and you'll think these were the good old days "
Wretchedly true.
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The internet gives a (very loud) voice to the average person, so instead of one report a week in the Friday paper, there are dozens of online reports daily, often from people who have no idea how far their voice can reach. Fishing forums disseminate information far faster than the newspaper and word of mouth could.
Reading a report that doesn't mention location is still enjoyable to read and can still be useful.
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I worry more about the lurkers on these internet forums than anyone that posts regularly. I dont post many reports anymore unless its a popular lake, or river.
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I worry more about the lurkers on these internet forums than anyone that posts regularly. I dont post many reports anymore unless its a popular lake, or river.
My thoughts exactly! I used to lurk here years ago, but then again, I knew hardly anything about fishing at all (but loved fishing since I was a little kid). I just found it interesting to read. Never actually went to any of the mentioned places. But I joined recently, and glad I did. Learnt a lot. But I feel that people should have to sign up to read almost anything on here. This forum is a little too public, but that's how you get exposure and viewership.
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I don't know what the solution is but having someone sign up to read the post won't solve anything.
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My thoughts exactly! I used to lurk here years ago, but then again, I knew hardly anything about fishing at all. I just found it interesting to read. Never actually went to any of the mentioned places. But I joined recently, and glad I did. Learnt a lot. But I feel that people should have to sign up to read almost anything on here. This forum is a little too public, but that's how you get exposure and viewership.
X2, I actually learned about fishing between this site and another, and only recently [2 years ago] kept up with reports and went to an exact spot people mentioned [which was no secret] as one of my first fishing adventures. my knowledge grew quickly afterwords as I have met a lot of seasoned fishermen who now have taught me most of all I know
There are definitely some 'dormant fishing forum trolls' who just lurk hoping to find out where the fish are from spending 5 mins online [ I was this guy not too long ago ]
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You might as well shut down this website if you want to reduce fishing pressure by sportsfishermen. Where ever I fish (and just to make you happy I will not say where), I meet a lot of anglers who come to this web site to get information where to fish and how to fish. It is clear that this is a very popular fishing site and it is encouraging and helping others to get into fishing and to kill more fish.
Yesterday afternoon, my buddy and I made plans to fish a large tidal un-named river this morning (which we did). But at about 11 pm last night, I read a great fishing report by a webmaster (who I won't name) with a parent (whose gender will not be specified) who caught five unspecified fish at some un-named major river. Pictures were posted. Well, after reading that report, the two of us were very tempted to change our plans and go to that particular river; if we did, that would have been two more guys fishing on that river; two more guys who will piss some of you off by our mere presence. Almost 700 guys read the same thread as I did and I'm willing to bet that at least 100 of them decided to go to that river because of that report.
It seems like some of you are saying it is okay for you to come to this website and learn how and where to fish, but when a 1,000 other guys does the exact same thing and ends up in the same spot as you that is some how wrong. Unless you own private river front property, your right to fish a spot is not exclusive. Of course, you could take some proactive action like smearing roe on car windows or slashing tires to discourage others from fishing a particular spot.
Should there be more rules and restrictions about what you can post in a fishing report? You can make a rule that you cannot mention names or locations and insist that you blank out backgrounds in any fish porn photos. Or you can just make a rule that you are only allowed to post photos of dead fish sitting on top of your cooler with just your toes showing in the background without saying when, where or how you caught the fish.
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By the way, I am ranting because I did not catch anything today.
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You might as well shut down this website if you want to reduce fishing pressure by sportsfishermen. Where ever I fish (and just to make you happy I will not say where), I meet a lot of anglers who come to this web site to get information where to fish and how to fish. It is clear that this is a very popular fishing site and it is encouraging and helping others to get into fishing and to kill more fish.
Yesterday afternoon, my buddy and I made plans to fish a large tidal un-named river this morning (which we did). But at about 11 pm last night, I read a great fishing report by a webmaster (who I won't name) with a parent (whose gender will not be specified) who caught five unspecified fish at some un-named major river. Pictures were posted. Well, after reading that report, the two of us were very tempted to change our plans and go to that particular river; if we did, that would have been two more guys fishing on that river; two more guys who will piss some of you off by our mere presence. Almost 700 guys read the same thread as I did and I'm willing to bet that at least 100 of them decided to go to that river because of that report.
It seems like some of you are saying it is okay for you to come to this website and learn how and where to fish, but when a 1,000 other guys does the exact same thing and ends up in the same spot as you that is some how wrong. Unless you own private river front property, your right to fish a spot is not exclusive. Of course, you could take some proactive action like smearing roe on car windows or slashing tires to discourage others from fishing a particular spot.
Should there be more rules and restrictions about what you can post in a fishing report? You can make a rule that you cannot mention names or locations and insist that you blank out backgrounds in any fish porn photos. Or you can just make a rule that you are only allowed to post photos of dead fish sitting on top of your cooler with just your toes showing in the background without saying when, where or how you caught the fish.
Ya but if you look closely you can see what kind of ground I was standing on. That should be a good clue as to where I was.......
Oh wait, that was taken on my back porch as I prepared to clean the fish.
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Yesterday afternoon, my buddy and I made plans to fish a large tidal un-named river this morning (which we did). But at about 11 pm last night, I read a great fishing report by a webmaster (who I won't name) with a parent (whose gender will not be specified) who caught five unspecified fish at some un-named major river. Pictures were posted. Well, after reading that report, the two of us were very tempted to change our plans and go to that particular river; if we did, that would have been two more guys fishing on that river; two more guys who will piss some of you off by our mere presence. Almost 700 guys read the same thread as I did and I'm willing to bet that at least 100 of them decided to go to that river because of that report.
;D
This is why I always sleep in and stay home the day after I go fishing. ;D ;D ;D
A couple of points to add to the above post so others reading this thread understand this:
The number of views does not represent the number of people. Some may have visited the thread once, some may have visited ten times (like me) to check back for replies etc. Each visit counts as a view so the number is not unique.
The fishing report section is not open to the public. It's only available to subscribers and those who have made contribution to the forum, so it is only available to a limited number of privileged people. ;) Generally, the unspoken rule in the fishing reports is to name the large systems (Fraser River, Chilliwack River, Stave River, etc) but to generalize an area for smaller systems (Lower Mainland stream, Fraser Valley stream, Whistler area lake, etc).
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I agree with not posting names and the like. I have recognized locations from pictures before but I also think that if you post a picture, and people can tell where you are fishing they can just keep it to themselves. Its tough though the vedder is no secret pretty much every semi popular spot gets a fair amount of pressure and this goes for a lot of fraser valley rivers. I think hot spotting places adds to the pressure. I think salmon fishing on rivers like the vedder is kind of to busy for my liking and the whole vedder river problem could be fixed by making it catch and release. I know of lots of rivers on the island that are catch and release and they are never busy.
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I know what your getting at Matt.
Unfortunately we as fisherman have a hard time going home at the end of a great day and keeping it all to ourselves.
It is a sport of some sort and who doesnt feel a little good about it when things go our way.
Unfortunately it isnt just the internet spreading the word.
Go in to many tackle shops and you hear about the local rivers frequently being recommended.
Do i blame them.Nope.
If it was my shop and my living i would be doing it just as much im sure.
Our population is exploding and with it are more fishers.
Google earth gps yada yada on and on it goes.
I have shown people water that i probably shouldnt have and im sure many of us on here can say the same thing.
Unfortunately they will never go catch and release on many systems that should be so as you see there are a multitude of problems here and the good ol .net is just one of them and a very powerfull one at that.
PS,see you at Caveman CK tomorrow. ;)
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Our population is exploding and with it are more fishers.
Very true, but furthering that point, it seems that the younger generation has less interest in fishing & outdoors than previous generations. Therefore, eventually one day, there will be less individuals fishing, as older generations pass away. Kids hardly play outside anymore!! You can thank internet, tv, video games, Justin Bieber, and plain laziness.
Also, another thing, while a lot of people do get info on places to fish, and end up greatly populating certain fishing spots, there are people, like myself who completely avoid busy and popular places. I never fish the Fraser (Large, un-amed tidal river LOL - as mentioned above), Vedder, Lafarge anymore, Como Lake, Mill Lake, etc. I went to the Stave, only when it was pretty dead. I could care less if I'm not fishing hot spots, or at the best times. To me fishing is all about relaxation, and food for the soul. It's a chance I get to be alone, collect my thoughts, relax, and really de-stress. Also, my old lady has no interest in going fishing with me, and doesn't really care if I go if it's not during "our" time. Therefore, it's an excuse to be alone. ;) lol
Maybe that's why I like Bass fishing? Not too many people know about it, or have an interest in it around here. I bet that people like me who fish for bass, have pretty much a lot of water to themselves at even the best times. Ocean fishing, in this case, would also work well with a boat.
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You might as well shut down this website if you want to reduce fishing pressure by sportsfishermen. Where ever I fish (and just to make you happy I will not say where), I meet a lot of anglers who come to this web site to get information where to fish and how to fish. It is clear that this is a very popular fishing site and it is encouraging and helping others to get into fishing and to kill more fish.
I disagree here. A fishing forum is still useful without instructions on what rock to stand on. There's plenty of information on FWR that explains fish habitats and behaviour, and the techniques used to catch them. That's all really useful information. With that information, you could quite easily open up the regs, find a body of water and explore it and quite possibly do well.
I am arguing that the naming locations on the internet unnecessarily adds pressure systems that can't tolerate the ensuing spike in angling activity, and creates a frenzy of activity if exact locations are posted on larger systems. Its a phenomenon that has been observed time after time. I understand its exciting writing up a report after a good day, and I've certainly done it and named locations, but I regretted it for the aforementioned reasons.
Yesterday afternoon, my buddy and I made plans to fish a large tidal un-named river this morning (which we did). But at about 11 pm last night, I read a great fishing report by a webmaster (who I won't name) with a parent (whose gender will not be specified) who caught five unspecified fish at some un-named major river. Pictures were posted. Well, after reading that report, the two of us were very tempted to change our plans and go to that particular river; if we did, that would have been two more guys fishing on that river; two more guys who will piss some of you off by our mere presence. Almost 700 guys read the same thread as I did and I'm willing to bet that at least 100 of them decided to go to that river because of that report.
It seems like some of you are saying it is okay for you to come to this website and learn how and where to fish, but when a 1,000 other guys does the exact same thing and ends up in the same spot as you that is some how wrong. Unless you own private river front property, your right to fish a spot is not exclusive. Of course, you could take some proactive action like smearing roe on car windows or slashing tires to discourage others from fishing a particular spot.
You're putting words in my mouth here. I haven't ever suggested anything to the effect that I have a right to fish a spot where others don't. Nor have I suggested suppressing anything other than sensitive locations, also never said anything hinting that valuable information about technique, fish habitat, physiology etc be suppressed. That is very valuable information and can be used to great effect.
Should there be more rules and restrictions about what you can post in a fishing report? You can make a rule that you cannot mention names or locations and insist that you blank out backgrounds in any fish porn photos. Or you can just make a rule that you are only allowed to post photos of dead fish sitting on top of your cooler with just your toes showing in the background without saying when, where or how you caught the fish.
You could make a bunch of rules... but using common sense.
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Ya but if you look closely you can see what kind of ground I was standing on. That should be a good clue as to where I was.......
Oh wait, that was taken on my back porch as I prepared to clean the fish.
You should of seen the trouble I got from a few yocals for posting a picture of a bonked hatchery steelhead that was laying on the rocks with my rod and reel last year. They said they recognized the rocks and the grass and knew exactly were I was fishing lol. Caused a big stink thats for sure, and to this day which is almost a year later they are still pissed and wont even say hello when they see me lol.
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I worry more about the lurkers on these internet forums than anyone that posts regularly. I dont post many reports anymore unless its a popular lake, or river.
I don't post any reports at all anymore, but only because I don't like the criticism. So in a way, the critics here have made me a "lurker." I didn't care if people read my reports and show up the next day to try for a fish themselves. That was the point in making the report...to share with others. Now my reports were rarely as graphic as Rod's, as my photos (if included) were never of more than 1 fish (as I do not kill more than 1 fish at a time), and I try to balance the success with the work it took to get the fish I did catch (I do not make the "such and such river is on fire" type reports that make it sound like any clown with a rod can catch a fish there). I did not, personally, think anyone was going to read a report from me and go running out to try that spot. There are far more reports that would encourage them to go elsewhere (...like a picture of a half dozen dead salmon lying on the bank). I just don't want to hear that I am ruining someone else's fishing experience by telling others that there are fish in that river (if you have the time and inclination to find them). I have recently been fishing numerous locations and having a great time, but I cannot share any of that with you now as I am now just a "lurker". I now only mention my trips (and their successes or failures) if it comes up in a discussion of that location.
Now it sounds to me like there is a call for Rod to remove the Fishing Reports section from the website. Let us not be hypocrites and continue to utilize a website that boasts a fishing reports section but then criticize the people who use it. Since I am not going to post any more reports myself, I wont miss reading any more either, so I will be the first to encourage Rod to remove it and save the newcomers the abuse.
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Like a few tears back the local papers and radio use to have fishing reports. Mostly about the salt water fishing but also the rest of the province. I read them religously. Then the fishing got kind of poopy and they stopped bragging about where they didn't catch their last fish. I refrain from posting anything or p.m.ing anyone about some of the good spots i've been to so I don't come back to a crowd. if the area can handle the presure or is already very popular no harm done. The worst fishers are the ones that are purely meat hunters that scour the net for new areas to rape. Maybe not having a fishing report section is a good or inevitable choice.
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You should of seen the trouble I got from a few yocals for posting a picture of a bonked hatchery steelhead that was laying on the rocks with my rod and reel last year. They said they recognized the rocks and the grass and knew exactly were I was fishing lol. Caused a big stink thats for sure, and to this day which is almost a year later they are still pissed and wont even say hello when they see me lol.
The old locals are a funny bunch. Even if you found the locations on your own they totally frown upon you showing any friends. Most of these friends that I show would never come here unless I was with them. They also know that they are not to show or tell anyone else about these places or they lose my friendship.
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they can always make new friends by showing them good fishing spots.
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they can always make new friends by showing them good fishing spots.
hahaha well played
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Personally I love the fishing reports section. Keeps me going when I'm working every day and can't make it out to the river.Next best thing to fishing myself. I also don't believe there is anything wrong with sharing if a river is producing. The more the Merrier as long as people that come are respectful and responsible.
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Personally I love the fishing reports section. Keeps me going when I'm working every day and can't make it out to the river.Next best thing to fishing myself. I also don't believe there is anything wrong with sharing if a river is producing. The more the Merrier as long as people that come are respectful and responsible.
Would your enjoyment of the report section be reduced if you didn't know the location? Sounds like many members (myself included) enjoy reading reports, but the omission of the river/lake doesn't reduce my enjoyment in the least, in fact, it adds intrigue.
Perhaps its more the merrier for some, but not so much for others.
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I don't see a problem with providing a report with general information about a popular river system. For example, stating that you fished the vedder or stave and did well on coho is fine. Providing GPS coordinates to the exact location or a sensitive/small river system will result in upsetting your fellow anglers, and could ruin the run for yourself - unless you're talking about a very popular spot like the KWB... ;D Then I'd know that you really don't know what you're talking about... :D
Seriously, part of fishing is discovering those "hot spots" for yourself and it does take effort. The result can be very high quality fishing, and it can be very rewarding. It can be the difference between a couple of hookups to 25 - 30+ coho hookups per trip. If you discovered a productive run with minimal pressure and lots of coho and it took you several trips to discover this run, would you want to broadcast it out? If you say "yes", then I'd say you've just ruined the spot for yourself and any other anglers who took the effort to find the spot for themselves. The number of hours you and others spent finding that spot just vaporized. Also keep in mind that if you post the results in the "general discussion" part of this forum, then ANYONE can access the information.
Just my 50 cents worth... ;)
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Some of the best reports on this forum come from Chris and yet he does not reveal any specific locations on where he is fishing.
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Chris has been a complete clam on where he's syphoning salmon :-\
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It wouldn't matter if Chris stated where he was fishing. He hasn't caught much all year. LOL
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It wouldn't matter if Chris stated where he was fishing. He hasn't caught much all year. LOL
Ouch ! :)
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Would your enjoyment of the report section be reduced if you didn't know the location? Sounds like many members (myself included) enjoy reading reports, but the omission of the river/lake doesn't reduce my enjoyment in the least, in fact, it adds intrigue.
Perhaps its more the merrier for some, but not so much for others.
Ya I don't need exact locations to enjoy the read. But hey the general area doesn't hurt on a busy system such as the vedder. That being said i think sensitive systems are better left off the net. There is nothing wrong with the sharing of info as long as the river can handle a little temporairly added pressure.
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It wouldn't matter if Chris stated where he was fishing. He hasn't caught much all year. LOL
Beak. ;D ;D ;D Going now for the tide, should get some as had a hot morning on the ducks, 8 mallards to temp your palate. ;D ;D
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I love fishing reports.
I don't need to know the location to enjoy reading them.
I'd vastly prefer locations aren't mentioned (exceptions made for massively popular water bodies).
I get frustrated by the anglers searching for a quick fix, but I try and be patient because I used to be one too.
Matt nailed it - use the info available (ie. water levels, techniques) and figure the rest out yourself.
Good luck!
:D
Tex
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I like to fished Zipper-mouth river and stand on particular rock for last 30 years. Nice to chuck a line, sinker and barb less hook out and catch some fish. That is my fishing report for internet. ::)
Silex-user
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Well put Matt.