Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on September 14, 2011, 09:35:14 PM
-
While on my latest trip to the Thompson fishing for jacks and hunting for grouse I filmed Steve Rice from Spences Bridge about the steelhead situation on the Thompson. This will certainly start a debare in many forms, I think. ;D
What should be done that has not been done to save this mighty fish? Some are taken by anglers at6 this time of year who donot know what a steelhead looks like, there are intercepted by Commercial and F/N netting activity
and of course the Test Fisheries on the Fraser including Albion that is used to attempt to get the run size as Steve talks about.
http://youtu.be/zf9YK1-P_kM
-
Thanks Chris, great video
-
wait...so does the test fisheries actually keep the fish? i thought it was just a seine to see whats coming through them they let them go
-
Wow is that ever sad, 850 fish from 20,000! I wonder why they aren't there, could we say mismanagement, netting netting netting netting. In my opinion a hatchery program may bring the numbers up a bit, but as long as the nets are being set, by by steelhead.
-
Wow is that ever sad, 850 fish from 20,000!
I believe a predicted 850 is the magic number for a rec catch/release opening and its only been open once in the last three years. Last year was an estimated 500 spawners. :'(
-
Thanks Chris for taking the time to present this video of such a passionate person and knowlegible Steve Rice.2 persons who really give a sh$t about the T.Great work!
-
Wow is that ever sad, 850 fish from 20,000! I wonder why they aren't there, could we say mismanagement, netting netting netting netting. In my opinion a hatchery program may bring the numbers up a bit, but as long as the nets are being set, by by steelhead.
ya netting netting netting!!!!! outrage over the odd fish killed by rec fishers but can you imagine how many fish are killed as a result of gill nets! One of my buddies dad works with a native guy who nets the fraser.....this year he has caught 5 Thompson fish in his nets, one of which he retained and ate!! Freaking ridiculous!
-
I am glad that local economy was brought up. Fisherman have a strong voice, but it often takes a full community to push provincial governments to make changes
-
--this is a dilemma... I do not believe anyone wants to replace wild fish with hatchery stock..but this decline has been long an painful.
--our fishing club endorsed the idea of a short term hatchery to help with the recovery and reinstatement of the recreational fishery.
--We have conditions... we want all research to continue with an emphasis on wild fish recovery.. including habitat, water temp,volume and quality in feeder stream such as deadman creek and others known to produce good numbers of fish in the past.
--I do not want to see a put and take hatchery attitude develop with a long term hatchery at spences bridge. Why not have the hatchery run for three years then stop. We expect fish populations to cycle so why when we put in a hatchery to we have to put in the same number of fish each year.
--Enhanced protected spawn bed to ensure high % of natural survival
--Be aware there are some clubs that are fighting against the use of a hatchery... I say to them tell me your plan for recovery that will work and I'm all for it.
-
Sometimes hatcheries can just lead to fish that directly compete with wild fish. So I can see why people would be against them on some rivers. the fisheries has also taken an approach to leave some rivers wild only, no hatcheries, and catch and release. I think a lot of us feel like The government doesnt invest enough into such a valuable resource that BC has.
-
ya netting netting netting!!!!! outrage over the odd fish killed by rec fishers but can you imagine how many fish are killed as a result of gill nets! One of my buddies dad works with a native guy who nets the fraser.....this year he has caught 5 Thompson fish in his nets, one of which he retained and ate!! Freaking ridiculous!
And the other 4 he probally sold! Sickening.
-
I see the Albion chinook test fishery got one steelhead Sept. 12 and one in the chum test on the 17th.
Thanks for the video Chris. There is a world of difference between the federal government's response to the 1998 coho crisis and the on going Interior Fraser steelhead crisis. In '98 we had red and yellow zones, this year we have extended seine openings that will impact the steelhead even with mandatory brailing, revival boxes etc. There's just not the same level of concern.
-
Great video!
Sad to hear that an entire community is being devastated by disappearance of the Thompson steelhead.
With so many people and businesses affected, maybe the provincial government could be motivated to save the steelhead.
-
I am pessimistic about the future of the Thompson Steelhead. The provincial government years ago could have stepped in to try and make a difference on this river. In my opinion, a hatchery should have been set up when the Steelhead run was showing signs of being in trouble and they would have had a much greater brood stock to draw from. At this point, if there are only 500 fish left they should still step in, even though the gene pool, will be narrower to see if they can save this unique strain of trout.
However, it seems this government has its priorties all wrong when it comes to environmental concerns. They would rather see the Lower Mainland's garbage hauled off to places like Cache Creek and landfilled, than pump money into saving the Thompson River Steelhead, and the community of Spences Bridge.
-
I am delivering copies of the video to Steve today so he can send them to some people in government.
Fishing it like I do at this time of year I realize more and more what a beautiful river it its. Last night I got down to the Nickel Run with only a short time to fish. It did not take me long to get my 4 jacks, 2 red, 2 whites and I lost at least 8, I climbed down, fished and back up in 51 minutes, just as it started to get dark. Watching for bears too as the strong smell of the jacks could attract them. Talking about smell one can not beat the smell of the sage brush, the roar of this mighty river and the howl of the wind as one fishes.
I am glad I did fish for steelhead on the Thompson once a few years ago, with the Master, it may be the only time I could angle for steelhead on this river, glad I shot some video too. I remember I got 2 to the shore, one on my second cast and after Nick had fished the run too. ;D
Talking about fishing I better get out there for the last day of jack fishing for me in 2011 that is. Winter is coming too as fresh snow on the hills this morning, makes one think of steelhead especially on the Thompson as they will be entering the system too.
It is too bad the government and others have not and it seems will not to do more to save this once mighty game fish, on the mighty Thompson River.
-
there has to be something us anglers can do...
I dont see the negative effects of a hatchery...the survival rates for the smolts are much better aren't they? then more can come back and even some hatchery fish will spawn in the wild - whats so bad about them if the wild stocks are no longer of self-sustaining themselves...
Do albion test fisheries keep the fish in the nets or do they release them/strictly for counting only?
-
i have heard some stories of past steelhead fishing on the thompson...
there has to be something us anglers can do...
if i can do anything as an angler. you can count me in. i would love for myself and my future son/daughter to fish that beautiful system by my side.
-
Excellent video this goverment needs to get it's finger out and do something about this once world class fishing destination.
-
I dont see the negative effects of a hatchery...the survival rates for the smolts are much better aren't they? then more can come back and even some hatchery fish will spawn in the wild - whats so bad about them if the wild stocks are no longer of self-sustaining themselves...
I guess this would be the last option to save the Thompson steelhead as a hatchery would no doubt dilute the unique gene pool of the this strain of wild steelhead. I remember reading at my local hatchery that survival rate for hatchery salmon is something like 50 times higher than wild salmon, so in effect, a lot of inferior genes are passed down to the next generation, a price we pay for more salmon we catch. Rivers without past history of hatchery tends to have fish which are on average bigger and fights better as a sports fish. Mature hatchery fish will also breed with wild stock, further diluting the gene pool. I guess there are no easy answers to your question.
-
Thanks Chris and Co.
Hatchery? NO. Once that genie is let out of the bottle there is no way to put it back and there are enough fish still in the river to allow for natural breeding and recovery . What we have to give them is an Environment that allows them to be healthy and strong pre-ocean for their travel to the ocean.
Immediate focus needs to put onto the overdraw of water by ranchers. Water use needs to be monitored and control ed by MOE more closely, with the priority given to water temps and flows correct temp= good aquatic food sources and there is less of a chance of residualisation, where what was spawned as a wild Steelhead turns into a native Rainbow resident.
A long term radio tagging program should be initiated to allow for a better understanding of the challenges the fish have post estuary. Is it fishfarm, netting (by-catch), predation or all of the above. Speculation is based on science, the newer the science the better the speculation and hence we have a key ,hopefully.
We as Anglers need to put more into the fisheries, that does not just mean paying your licence and tags. It means finding a group who are actively involved, and get involved yourself, for me it's SSBC.
Educate others ,not just anglers, but anyone who will listen.
Government makes decisions based on damage control or fallout. Hell get to know your MLA ,The more the MLA knows that folks are expecting and holding he/she ??? responsible, the better chance the MLA will give support, albeit grudgingly.
Write letters to the local Rag.
Blogs?
-
-- I believe the story goes when you rub the lantern there are both good and bad genie's we just have to be careful which one we select.
-- old style hatcheries.. with a few brood stock, cloning thousands to return for slaughter in what becomes a put and take fishery.
-- residualism occurs naturally for various reasons and with kokanee/sockeye at least works both ways... where sockeye have been re-introduced some will stay but usually only if lake conditions are so productive that it doesn't get the urge to seek greener pastures... this would not likely happen to a whole run but a few individuals there are cases as well where kokanee returned to the ocean... especially those that have spent only a few generations as kokanee because of man made dams.
--many, if not all of the issues with hatcheries can be mitigated however I agree we should not be looking at permanent hatcheries as a long term solution.
--in fact I propose a finite date for closing a temporary hatchery be part of the initial recovery plan and that all the other research such as radio tagging, water quality, temperature and quantity must be agreed to prior to hatchery initiation.
--there are no end to hatchery horror stories from the past... get over it. we do not have to repeat past mistakes.
-
I was told a few Thompson steelhead were taken around SB by an angler fishing for trout.
In talking to Steve a bit of correspondence has taken place since we shot the video.
Also ssome type of media event is being planned for mid October, may attend to film if not away hunting, will post the date if anyone wishes to attend.
I agree as one poster above says, the government has not put the energy or resources into saving this world class fish.
They have dropped the ball once again on another fishery issue.::) :(
-
--even though fishing was good we were raising concerns early 70's about Deadman Creek run and other smaller tribs which all had steelhead.
--no one seemed to care about all these smaller runs (except the rec fishers)
--it seems to me the major management strategy is to downgrade the fishery until recreational fishing is shut down then the problem goes away.
--this strategy has worked very well for okanagan lk kokanee fishery... no fishermen no one complaining about the plan which does not seem to include the quality of the fishery.
-
on a recent fishing trip to our northern waters i had the opportunity to have a chat with a fellow who has over 30 yrs working experience dealing with the bulkley & tribs steelhead.....he asked me about the thompson,how it was doing and what the steelheading was like?i informed him it was closed to c&r and that 500 spawners were counted this past spring......his response was laughter and head shaking.he believes theres alot more than 500 steelies in the system and they are being used for political purposes with intent to shut down gill net fisheries.this fellow tried to do a study on the thompson and was denied.....his belief is there is more than enough steelhead in the river.his view is alot of the hype around the thompson river steelhead is based on political fear mongering.....the bulkley has made a remarkable comeback with over thirty two thousand steelhead returning last year and this fellow has played a large part in it.i believe what he told me.........we need independent studies done on the thompson but our govt doesnt seem interested,why?????? just maybe theres more in the system than there letting on???? are we as sport anglers getting the actual facts or are we being mislead???? one thing is certain,action needs to be taken.....
-
on a recent fishing trip to our northern waters i had the opportunity to have a chat with a fellow who has over 30 yrs working experience dealing with the bulkley & tribs steelhead.....he asked me about the thompson,how it was doing and what the steelheading was like?i informed him it was closed to c&r and that 500 spawners were counted this past spring......his response was laughter and head shaking.he believes theres alot more than 500 steelies in the system and they are being used for political purposes with intent to shut down gill net fisheries.this fellow tried to do a study on the thompson and was denied.....his belief is there is more than enough steelhead in the river.his view is alot of the hype around the thompson river steelhead is based on political fear mongering.....the bulkley has made a remarkable comeback with over thirty two thousand steelhead returning last year and this fellow has played a large part in it.i believe what he told me.........we need independent studies done on the thompson but our govt doesnt seem interested,why?????? just maybe theres more in the system than there letting on???? are we as sport anglers getting the actual facts or are we being mislead???? one thing is certain,action needs to be taken.....
I would rather see an over reaction to protect the Thompson steelhead (even if it is political) rather than letting fishermen harass these fish to extinction. The idea that gill net fisheries are being targeted seems a little far fetched. I wonder if the fellow you talked to also believes that the Thompson coho are plentiful as well and are just being used to shut down gill net fisheries as well.....
-
on a recent fishing trip to our northern waters i had the opportunity to have a chat with a fellow who has over 30 yrs working experience dealing with the bulkley & tribs steelhead.....
Last name O'Neil? Steelhead in the Bonaparte and Deadman are counted electronically. Tough to fudge the numbers.
3 in the chinook test, 3 in the chum. Doesn't help when DFO opens up chum fisheries in Johnstone Strait.
http://thompsonfisheries.blogspot.com/
-
to agree to disagree,lol.i cant say who i chatted with......alwaysfishin,lets close the entire province then to c&r steelheadin,sure is hurting the skeena system ::) It would be interesting if the thompson did open to c&r and an intensive creel survey was done daily,sport anglers hook less than 15% of the total amount in the system......so that would equal at its highest no# 75 steelhead caught over an entire season if there was 500.....i agree they are in trouble and the chum fishery doesnt help but i believe there was more than 500 in the system last year.
Quill,can you tell me where the extremely large rainbows come from in the north thompson every spring?i have always wondered......thnx in advance.
-
my guess is that they are residualised steelies.
-
Can't say about those rainbows. I know they did some scale samples and found they're residents but from where? Shuswap? Sides, they're supposed to be a secret.
The way the T fishery is set up now, when it's open, anglers catch about 25-50%. Bison 2009.
"Prior to 2004, catch tended to constitute 85% of the abundance (Figure 4). After the implementation of inseason management, the proportion of the stock that was caught and released appears to have shifted dramatically. The catch now constitutes one-quarter to one-half of the abundance."
But, that's reported catch and all fishers are liars. :D
-
steelhead are in trouble on all systems no matter which way you look at it. and im not talking about the hatchery-enhanced-to-my smelly socks rivers, im talking wild self-sustaining rivers like the T, Skeena, etc.
I dont know who this patriot is claiming the steelhead are abundant and are used as a platform to strike down gillnetters [which IMO isnt a bad idea], but really - it's all speculation. We won't know exactly what is going on with the fish unless a scientific study is done by legitimate biologists...in terms of the rainbows i would like to know too! maybe mended kelts?
-
No, the rainbows are ripe fish. Well above Kamloops Lake. Maybe remnants of Columbia winter-runs??
-
We won't know exactly what is going on with the fish unless a scientific study is done by legitimate biologists...in terms of the rainbows i would like to know too!
I don't get this conspiracy theory about fudging fish counts and abundance data. Aren't steelhead counts and stock status reports done by professional fish biologists, RPBios, that answer to their professional society like other professionals? Politicians and senior bureaucarts lie and may twist the information to their own greater designs but fish biologists are professionals and specialists with no motive to report anything other than what they know. ::)
-
You're right. Provincial fisheries biologists work with the best science available in developing their recommendations to fisheries managers.
There's a segment of the population in the north who have for years disputed the population estimates for the Skeena in an effort to reinstitute a steelhead kill fishery. Not surprising that they would also question the escapement estimates for the T. The good news is that very few people actually listen.
-
--even though fishing was good we were raising concerns early 70's about Deadman Creek run and other smaller tribs which all had steelhead.
--no one seemed to care about all these smaller runs (except the rec fishers)
--it seems to me the major management strategy is to downgrade the fishery until recreational fishing is shut down then the problem goes away.
--this strategy has worked very well for okanagan lk kokanee fishery... no fishermen no one complaining about the plan which does not seem to include the quality of the fishery.
yea , I have feeling you're right . they hope it will just eff of and die.
-
No, the rainbows are ripe fish. Well above Kamloops Lake. Maybe remnants of Columbia winter-runs??
Could be! I think that there is a connection between the Columbia and Idaho strains.
-
Quote from: fishunter on Today at 12:08:44 AM
what a great video chris! love the stuff you post. on an unrelated note, It would be interesting what the guy who spoke about spences bridge would say about the opening right nnow on the thompson.
I was planning to go up to the Thompson today for a few days and film Steve on what you asked but a cold has kept me grounded, besides it will be cold and windy up there which will only make me sicker. :-\
I have talked to Steve by e mail and he says the fishing is------ ;D ;D. I think there is more fish showing up than than some are saying. Sorry this may upset some but so be it, as I have said many times, life is too short to worry about things like this as it should be a minor concern as we travel through life.
-
Quote from: fishunter on Today at 12:08:44 AM
what a great video chris! love the stuff you post. on an unrelated note, It would be interesting what the guy who spoke about spences bridge would say about the opening right nnow on the thompson.
I was planning to go up to the Thompson today for a few days and film Steve on what you asked but a cold has kept me grounded, besides it will be cold and windy up there which will only make me sicker. :-\
I have talked to Steve by e mail and he says the fishing is------ ;D ;D. I think there is more fish showing up than than some are saying. Sorry this may upset some but so be it, as I have said many times, life is too short to worry about things like this as it should be a minor concern as we travel through life.
hmm...well I guess he is happy there are people coming through his coffee shop as the T is open t say the least...I wonder if he agrees with the opening from a moral POV though
-
hmm...well I guess he is happy there are people coming through his coffee shop as the T is open t say the least...I wonder if he agrees with the opening from a moral POV though
Nothing wrong with that and the Packing House is a great spot to stop for a coffee or some great food. ;D ;D l believe there is more benefits to having it open for the 2 months than having it closed. Those points have been made before, that I agree with, while others give reasons why they think it should be kept closed, I guess it is up to each person to decide.
-
Nothing wrong with that and the Packing House is a great spot to stop for a coffee or some great food. ;D ;D l believe there is more benefits to having it open for the 2 months than having it closed. Those points have been made before, that I agree with, while others give reasons why they think it should be kept closed, I guess it is up to each person to decide.
I saw him in there a couple days ago....didn't look too bothered by the opening :D
-
Quote from: fishunter on Today at 12:08:44 AM
what a great video chris! love the stuff you post. on an unrelated note, It would be interesting what the guy who spoke about spences bridge would say about the opening right nnow on the thompson.
I was planning to go up to the Thompson today for a few days and film Steve on what you asked but a cold has kept me grounded, besides it will be cold and windy up there which will only make me sicker. :-\
I have talked to Steve by e mail and he says the fishing is------ ;D ;D. I think there is more fish showing up than than some are saying. Sorry this may upset some but so be it, as I have said many times, life is too short to worry about things like this as it should be a minor concern as we travel through life.
I read on another site,that the estimated projected run is at 600 fish. Dreadfully low numbers and yet the so called Sports fsherman are flocking to the T to pin cushion these last few remaining fish.Im deeply concerned we are seeing the end of this once great run.I cannot for the life of me understand what justification there is to opening this fishery when it should remained closed.
-
Just a reminder that we are 2 weeks away from a fantastic event for the benefit of the Thompson River and one of its major steelhead spawning tributaries, Spius Creek... the Pub Night Fundraiser is Wednesday, November 23rd, at The Bourbon in Vancouver on the edge of Gastown.
There will be auction items, door prizes, and raffles which will include:
- guided trips for salmon, sturgeon, steelhead, and trout with top anglers like Brian Chan, April Vokey, Jason Tonelli, and others
- rods, reels, and other gear
- Canucks tickets
This is going to be an awesome night, whether you are a Thompson angler or not, and all the money goes to a great cause.
We hope to see you there.