Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: rheticus on August 22, 2011, 06:16:28 PM
-
The best way to ruin any remaining "local trout streams" will be to advertise them on forums like this one!
-
The best way to ruin any remaining "local trout streams" will be to advertise them on forums like this one!
No, the best way to ruin a local trout stream is to dump toxic waste in it. Fishermen are the guardians of the waterways and are the best tools to monitor the health of these streams. No one is saying that the Brunette is "On Fire" or that you can catch your limit at the Nicomekl. If you think hoards of beaks are going to flock to these streams because of what I just posted, you are delusional. If you do not want to share information in a friendly and responsible manner than I suggest you stop visiting "forums like this one".
-
Whatever happened to people just going out to check out a river :o? Why don't you try exploring rather than "internet fishing"?
Rheticus is absolutely right. Well, technically you are right in terms of ruining a river, toxic waste will do that. But in terms of decreasing the fishing experience, Rheticus is totally right. Do you realize how many local streams and rivers (not to be named here) have had an explosion in terms the amount of fisherman which can inturn increase the amount of garbage, noise pollution, quads, dirt bikes, snags, foliage and immature trees getting cut down ???. Go back about 10-15 years when you could walk into some of these places and you'd be the only person around, no garbage, just you on a peaceful river enjoying some time away from the rat race.
Just look at the explosion of people on the Fraser and Vedder in the past few years. Why is that?..................my assumption is because of the Internet. :-[
Forums like this should be more about learning proper fishing techniques, different fishing techniques, learning about fish and different species and meeting new friends. :)
If you really want to know where to fish for trout, why don't you leaf through the fishing regulations, why don't you inquire at your local fishing store, why don't you read a magazine, why don't you read a book?
Has anybody else noticed the decreasing amount of fishing reports lately on this forum and others? Why do you think that is? Is it because people aren't catching fish? Doubtful. I think we can all put two and two together here.
One thing I've been reading lately is that someone posts a fishing report without naming the location and then that person gets pm's from random people asking where they caught that fish ??? ??? It's like, are you kidding me? There's a reason why people don't like to post the location. Again, I think we can all put two and two together. Right?
Anyways, that's my rant for today ;) I'm going fishing this weekend and not telling anyone where I'm going except my buddy that I'm going with ;D How did I find out about it, I explored a "local" river and found it on my own :D
Tight lines.
-
Well, first off, posting a fishing report without a location is just bragging as it is not only contrary to the rules of the forum, it also offers nothing useful to anyone, so by all means keep it to yourself if you do not want to share your favorite spot. Secondly, the increase in fishing pressure in the last few years has more to do with the increase in population and the percentage of that population taking up fishing as a relatively cheap pastime. The Vedder and the Fraser have been world renowned fisheries for over 50 years so don't bother trying to convince me that the increase in people fishing these rivers is a result of the internet. Thirdly, and the point I was trying to make, is that while it IS true that a post of good fishing success on this forum will probably translate into more people fishing that location in the immediate future, a post such as the one I just made will not result in crowds suddenly appearing on any of those streams I mentioned. The crowds that troll the fishing reports are after meat, and they will end up at the meat holes, it is just a question of which one. Again, I did not say I was just at the Brunette and caught dozens of 12 inch rainbows. I said I had success there in the past for small rainbows, that it is a fragile stream, and that it needs to be cared for with respect (no littering your dew worm containers). None of the streams I mentioned is a secret and I made no grandiose claims about any of them. The reason people do not post reports is because they are hypocrites that will read everyone else reports but will never offer one of their own.
-
Dear Sandman et al.: I didn't mean to dis anybody or to display (or incite!) any animosity. Nothing I said was intended to criticize your post. I was just putting in one person's gentle suggestion that the original question not be greeted with too many specifics. I think I have a right to do that. You're of course right about toxic waste, etc. -- though I'm not terribly impressed with the shores of rivers and lakes where the general fishing public hangs out. I've developed the habit of taking an extra garbage bag along with me to pick up the garbage, including tangles of monofilament, that *some* fishermen (hopefully not members of this list!) can't be bothered to pick up.
Anyhow, peace to all responsible fishermen and fisherwomen!
-
You're missing the entire point. :o
I'll refer you to my very first point........Whatever happened to people just going out to check out a river ? Why don't you try exploring rather than "internet fishing"?
I agree with your first point. :)
I totally disagree with your second point. If you truly think that "the increase in fishing pressure in the last few years has more to do with the increase in population ", you are truly out to lunch. The population has not increased that much in the past few years thats equated to more people fishing. Yes, the population has increased, I'll give you that, but the population has always been on the rise.
If you don't believe the internet has increased fishing presence on the Vedder, you are again truly out to lunch. Go back a few years before the internet got really popular and these forums weren't around. As you state and I agree with, "the Fraser and Vedder have been world renowned fisheries for over 50 years".............why weren't these rivers busy back then? Please don't give me the increase in population story again. :-\
It's the internet and there is no arguing. Look how many people join these forums. Don't get me wrong, I've learned a ton about fishing since I've joined this site and a few others, but I've also seen these rivers take a turn for the worse in terms of fishing etiquette (which is another scary story) and fishing enjoyment. I blame it on the internet and word of mouth. There are so many fish around these days and they are so easy to catch. Look at all the whites a few years ago, look at all the chums a few years ago, look at the sockeye last year, look at all the pinks two years ago.
Has there always been a "Vedder Cleanup", I doubt it. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that these cleanups originated when the fishing population increased.
To your third point, I made no mention of your post increasing fishing presence on a river so I don't know what you're talking about. ???
Your arguments are weak. ;)
-
I totally get your point. Unlike you, though, I will not insult you, unless you personally read the fishing reports on this forum, then I will call you a hypocrite. The internet did not get people to go fishing, nor did it get people to go to the Vedder. People have always gone to the Vedder for salmon and steelhead. There are more people fishing the Fraser and the Vedder because there are simply more people fishing today than there was 20 years ago. Again, the internet did not get people to start fishing. I have been fishing for over 40 years and before the internet there was a regular fishing report in all the local papers. I always checked it before heading out fishing. While I enjoy exploring all manner of river and lakes, I also enjoy catching fish so I also like fishing places that are presently producing fish. Lots of people read these regular reports of fishing success at the Vedder, but they did not run out and take up fishing. Of course, that report also reported on other rivers and lakes in the lower Mainland, so there was always other options than the "gong show" at the Vedder (yes, it was already considered a gong show in the 70s). More people are fishing today and it stands to reason that they are going to go to the most productive river system in the lower mainland. This is especially true when the only river anyone reports about any more is the Vedder, it makes the masses feel that there is no better place to fish. As I said, a favorable report on the internet might increase the pressure at a location in the immediate future, until a more favorable report is made about another location. However, since we will never see a report from any other location you can expect more people to fish the Vedder.
-
I totally get your point. Unlike you, though, I will not insult you, unless you personally read the fishing reports on this forum, then I will call you a hypocrite. The internet did not get people to go fishing, nor did it get people to go to the Vedder. People have always gone to the Vedder for salmon and steelhead. There are more people fishing the Fraser and the Vedder because there are simply more people fishing today than there was 20 years ago. Again, the internet did not get people to start fishing. I have been fishing for over 40 years and before the internet there was a regular fishing report in all the local papers. I always checked it before heading out fishing. While I enjoy exploring all manner of river and lakes, I also enjoy catching fish so I also like fishing places that are presently producing fish. Lots of people read these regular reports of fishing success at the Vedder, but they did not run out and take up fishing. Of course, that report also reported on other rivers and lakes in the lower Mainland, so there was always other options than the "gong show" at the Vedder (yes, it was already considered a gong show in the 70s). More people are fishing today and it stands to reason that they are going to go to the most productive river system in the lower mainland. This is especially true when the only river anyone reports about any more is the Vedder, it makes the masses feel that there is no better place to fish. As I said, a favorable report on the internet might increase the pressure at a location in the immediate future, until a more favorable report is made about another location. However, since we will never see a report from any other location you can expect more people to fish the Vedder.
A favorable general report from a river that can handle the pressure is one thing but you don't have to give the exact directions to a spot to thousands of lurkers though. What's wrong with a PM or email? People just have to use a bit of common sense when they post questions or respond to them. It's an unfortunate fact that many of those lurkers have no respect for the resource or for the local residents who live in said parts, be they anglers or otherwise. You give directions to a parking spot and the knock on effect may be too many people parking, garbage etc. Residents get pissed off and access gets shut down etc. Not saying don't share information, just be aware with how many people you are sharing it with, and the fact that the majority of these people are an unknown quantity as they never post. I can't prove that the guys fishing with a buzzbomb, treble and prawn, the guys booting pinks back into the water or the guy who was going to bonk a dolly found there way there because of your post, but you can't disprove that either so maybe it's bet to er on the side of caution and send a PM or email. If you want to post about more sensitive systems don't be surprised if locals get on your back about it, they probably fish those streams weekly or daily and are protective of their back yard waters and rightly resentful of the kind of people such posts might attract and the effect of this kind of pressure on both the fishery and their own angling experience. It's a free country, there's public access to all these places and rightly so, just saying you don't need to advertise it on an open forum, there a whole swathe of grey area when it comes to sharing reports and you just have to use your common sense.
-
No one is saying that the Brunette is "On Fire" or that you can catch your limit at the Nicomekl.
you can get fish out of the nickomekl? ::)
-
This dang website revealed all my secret spots in Richmond http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/region_two/tidal_fraser_river.html (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/region_two/tidal_fraser_river.html) :'(
-
you can get fish out of the nickomekl? ::)
Apparently not. I am glad someone told me. I can stop wasting my time there.
-
Well said Nickredway ;D
-
Hey guys,
I heard there's no fish in the Fraser, Capilano, Vedder, Chehalis, Cheakamus, Harrison, Bulkley, Skagit and Skeena systems anymore. Y'all should probably go fish somewhere else, or not at all. Save yourself some time.
J
-
I went fishing this morning but I am not going to say where or how well I did.
-
Atta boy :D
Really though, you're missing the whole point :-*. If you feel so inclined, you should share with others, you just don't need to give specifics (ie- exact location, turn left here, 40 paces here, fish at the log jam type of thing) and I'm sure most would agree that the smaller streams and lesser known spots should not be mentioned for fear of turning them into the next gong show.
Let people figure things out on there own, they might actually enjoy walking a river and exploring 8) Those are some of the best days.
-
Atta boy :D
Really though, you're missing the whole point :-*. If you feel so inclined, you should share with others, you just don't need to give specifics (ie- exact location, turn left here, 40 paces here, fish at the log jam type of thing) and I'm sure most would agree that the smaller streams and lesser known spots should not be mentioned for fear of turning them into the next gong show.
Let people figure things out on there own, they might actually enjoy walking a river and exploring 8) Those are some of the best days.
I never said such a thing. I mentioned a few local streams that I had fished for trout, every one of them a well known river, no secrets here. I mentioned they were fragile and needed to be respected. I said that the person asking should not expect much. Hardly post that would attract a "gong show." Still I was chided for "advertising" local systems. So to hell with you all.
-
I will say this. The internet has offered something to new fishermen and women that they did not have before. When I was growing up I learned to fish from my father, an avid fly fisherman. I learned the skills and the ethics from him. For those new to fishing who did not have that role model/mentor they were often left to approach the rivers and lakes with ignorance. Yes, they had to explore to find the good spots, but they learned nothing of ethics, technique, proper fish handling, or which streams needed to be treated with extra care. The internet has given those newbies a resource that has the opportunity to accelerate the learning curve so fewer years are spent fumbling through, committing heinous faux pas after heinous faux pas until they finally get screamed at by someone and told that what they are doing is wrong. By then they are probably already cocky enough and arrogant enough to think their way is perfectly acceptable (they had been doing it for years after all). However, because some people feel that their local stream is somehow theirs to enjoy in private, any chance to make use of such a tools is lost as, instead of sharing useful information, information is jealously guarded in a misguided attempt to protect the very systems that sharing information could serve to protect. But I am done with this. No more reports from me.
-
hey sandman, i totally agree with you, i believe in the use it or lose it idea, if a body of water is not used for fishing then what is stopping the govt from allowing a private entity from daming it or allowing a run of river project on it?, if ppl dont know about a body of water with fish in it then how is it supposed to be protected?, if you ppl want to fish in seclusion then move away from the mainland and find a small town and become a hermit, like wtf are you ppl talking about?, exclusivity can and likely will cause a small fragile system to become insignificant in the publics eye, if you want a system to be conserved then providing info about a said system to the public is the only way it will be preserved, stop being so selfish and trying to hog it all to yourselves or it WILL be the demise of a small stream or river that you hold so dearly, geezus.....holmes*
-
and dont think it wont happen, because that would be one of the most naive things to do, the internet is here to stay, you cant fite it so you may as well embrace it....let the flaming begin,lol....holmes*
-
Boy, you sure read into things Sandman. I made no mention of you saying those things, and I'm sorry if you read it that way and I apologize. I was referring to other people doing that and hoping that others don't.
And Holmes, there's enough people out there that know about the local streams. Just because it's not a gong show, doesn't mean that there is nothing known about it. Where do you dream this up? ::) You post makes zero sense in my opinion and isn't worth replying.
Sounds like you two should go fish the scale bar with three hundred of your closest friends. ;D
I wish there was an emoticon showing me banging my heard against the wall. ;)
-
if you ppl want to fish in seclusion then move away from the mainland and find a small town and become a hermit, like wtf are you ppl talking about?,
This is the most illogical response I think I've ever heard......................just run away, run as as fast as you can, guick, gather your belongings and run :-\
And another thing, everyone should go fish the smaller streams today so the silly government doesn't dam it up. Quick, everyone gather your children and we'll all head out together ::)
And Holmes, you're making the assumption that I live down there. You are incorrect, I live a comfortable 5 hours away from the rat race. ;D and couldn't be happier ;D and no I am not a hermit contrary to popular belief ;)
-
--we had a local trophy lake that our fishing club put a lot of effort in... piping in water to maintain safe water level for fish.. aerator in winter... camp ground etc.used to have our first club fishing outing of the year there and also invited other clubs.. got a few seasons out of it.... then two articles in bcoutdoors plus internet plus regulation change to allow fishing in April when other fly fishing lakes are closed to fishing.. perfect storm.
--due to line up in the parking lots and unreasonable pressure for the size of the lake.. plus the number of people who pretended they did not know it was a catch and release only lake plus guys poaching in winter through the ice when the lake was closed.
--low water, aerator stopped when some bozo dropped a tree on the power line and did not report it so winter kill.
--Now you may think I'm against all this internet exposure and with good reason.. but I am not. This is just part of an ongoing evolution... the lake after die off was ignored by most fishers... we have had some recovery... more fish put in, aerator fixed and some decent fishing again. I expect we will continue with this boom and crash of users... but as I pointed out to our fishing club.... it is not our private lake and we should expect this and we do still continue to work on improvements and management of the lake even though many of us do not regularly fish this lake as we used to. There are still some peaceful times at the lake and fun to see others have fun at it.
-
You have to be brain dead to post a report about a small system on the internet. Totally irresponsible and indefensible. They can't handle the pressure that the internet brings.
As well as small systems, specific locations can be ruined. Some moron who will remain nameless posted a report about a certain beach being "hot". Prior to that post, there were maybe 8 other guys fishing in the morning on the whole beach. THE VERY NEXT DAY after the post there were over 60, thats right, SIXTY people lining the beach. It turned into a joke...overnight... all thanks to one careless post. That one single poster RUINED that fishery. They took a nice filet mignon and turned it into a f'ing three day old meatloaf covered in flies with one careless string of text.
Using the forum "rules" as an excuse for posting location is a copout too...
-
hey sandman, i totally agree with you, i believe in the use it or lose it idea, if a body of water is not used for fishing then what is stopping the govt from allowing a private entity from daming it or allowing a run of river project on it?, if ppl dont know about a body of water with fish in it then how is it supposed to be protected?, if you ppl want to fish in seclusion then move away from the mainland and find a small town and become a hermit, like wtf are you ppl talking about?, exclusivity can and likely will cause a small fragile system to become insignificant in the publics eye, if you want a system to be conserved then providing info about a said system to the public is the only way it will be preserved, stop being so selfish and trying to hog it all to yourselves or it WILL be the demise of a small stream or river that you hold so dearly, geezus.....holmes*
Seriously?....No, i mean SERIOUSLY?!? dude you really gotta stay on your meds...or is it because you're upset people don't want to create new Meat Holes?
it's called sustainability and ecological effect on the environment...there are laws under The Crown that prevent even the Government from just building dams where ever they please, then there are watch dogs like Green Peace, FoE, and The Green Party whom they have to contend with... to say people have to fish a system in order to maintain significance is just plain DUMB....sorry if this sounds insulting but you have to think before you speak.
-
there were maybe 8 other guys fishing in the morning on the whole beach. THE VERY NEXT DAY after the post there were over 60,
Been in that situation a few times recently.
Fish, have fun for a few days, next day: You can't find a place to park, ethics and etiquette seem to fly out the window.
I wouldn't say it ruined the fishery but It definitely was not as enjoyable.
Flows will always be targeted after someone rings the bell.
I think general location is fine but when people get into specifics your just giving 1000 lurkers a cheat sheet/short cut.
There are NO private conversations or discussions on the internet.
I'll happily share some info with someone I meet after I've had the time to size them up,
unlike the faceless avatars and web surfers reading the words in these posts.
Ways to avoid the GONG SHOWS created due to internet posts:
1) Be rich and retire (go when and where ever you want)
2) be self employed (make your own hours)
3) Work shift work (afternoon shift allows you to fish in the a.m. midweek)
4) Be unemployed (see #2)
5) Don't have kids (they take up a lot of time)
6) Don't fish on the weekends.
7) Take your holidays at the appropriate times.
8) Take extra long hikes
9) Get a boat
10) Quit fishing
-
I have to agree with the sentiment that it's unrealistic to believe that internet posting isn't responsible for increased fishing pressure at reported spots.
Afterall, I've personally fished spots that have been reported on, simply because the fishing was "good" there. Furthermore, someone else reported fishing the same location that I recently fished, thanks to my positive report on a popular spot. Despite not noticing a significant increase in the number of anglers at this spot this week I couldn't help but wonder if some of the people fishing there this week hadn't read my report and headed out there because of it.
For that reason, there are lakes and locations that I've fished that I will continue to keep "secret." They are by no means unknown fishing holes -- in fact, some are well documented as such -- but I just don't want to see anymore people there; especially considering that there is often only one or two rustic campsites at the location, and the fishing is just unreal. If I posted a report about them, it would start with "fished a lake near 70 mile house recently," "fished a creek mouth near Laidlaw," etc., etc.
Good luck out there.
-
Cell phones are also a problem . I can't believe the number of anglers who catch a fish and within seconds of beaching the fish they are communicating with their buddies. I have observed
an angler hook a steelhead and immediately dial his cell phone. Needless to say he lost the fish!!
-
I have observed an angler hook a steelhead and immediately dial his cell phone. ... he lost the fish!!
Haha; serves him right for counting his chickens :D
But, ya, that der Facebook is trouble. *tweet* Just limited out at Jones *tweet* Lol. D@mn super phones :p
-
I have to agree that the Internet and fishing report sites like this and several others have increased the danger that named specific fishing sites, particularly small streams and river bar sites, could be swamped. I've used this site and others to identify new fishing holes myself that I wouldn't otherwise have the time to go out "exploring" for.
It raises some interesting questions about the whole issue of issuing "fishing reports" now that the information can be distributed widely, inexpensively and quickly. It used to be a newspaper report, once a week, that never named any specific fishing spots. Maybe it's time to re-write the rules.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/2BFjY.jpg)
-
We are all free to post what ever we want on this site as long as we follow the rules and guidelines. Go ahead and post detailed directions to a productive spot on the river (secret or not). Just don't complain when you find twice as many people in your spot the next time you go and don't expect your friends to be happy that you decided to be "helpful" to everyone including lurkers that contribute nothing to this forum or website.
Sure, the vedder, chehalis, stave, or Squamish are no secrets. Most people know that they are productive rivers and there is no problem with posting about how productive they are but in the absence of posts outlining detailed directions to specific locations, people tend to spread out more on the river and isn't that a good thing?
I think in general the message is sinking in as I see more vagueness in the fishing reports that people post. Part of the challenge of fishing is finding spots on your own. Before we had the internet, that's what we did. I can't remember how many times in the past I've made the long drive to the Vedder only to find it completely blown out and unfishable. Now we have the internet to tell us what the river level is and whether it is fishable. How much more do we need to "help" people out? Should we offer to drive them to there as well?
-
Should we offer to drive them to there as well?
That'd be nice. Maybe bait my hook and gut my fish for me too?
I mean, if it's not too much to ask...
;D
-
Internet forums are no more the problem than the many books out there providing fishing locations. The problem is overpopulation. Our rivers/lakes see increasing fishing pressue due to population growth. And this is not going to stop as many people come here because it is such an awesome place to live. Time to adapt, accept.
-
A place to teach good fishing etiquette, respect for the fish, the environment and fellow fisherman. These are what I see as avenues for internet fishing sites. I 100% avoid combat fishing so personally I'd never go running off to any spot based on information found on a public message board. Everyone has to start somewhere though, not everyone grew up fishing for whom many of the unwritten rules are obvious. Give the benefit of the doubt and show a little tolerance to your fellow fisherman and maybe you'll be able to teach them a little something positive that'll get passed on to the next guy.
-
I'm familiar with several instances where posting a location on this forum has resulted in a huge increase in pressure on that location. One of those instances, a false report about an unproductive area was given on this forum as an experiment and the area went from having virtually no pressure to some 30 anglers showing up. A report without a location is just as enjoyable to read and can be informative. There's no substitute for getting out on a system and fishing it. No one has ever become a good angler by reading online reports.
If you post about a specific location, its a certainty that someone looking for a fishing spot is going to read it. Recall hundreds if not thousands of people read this forum. Same goes for threads asking for uncrowded locations close to home to wet a line, don't they realize that thousands can read any reply they get to their query?
I fully understand that figuring out where to fish is at least half the battle for beginners, but let me tell you that finding your own spots as a result of putting in the time exploring is the greatest satisfaction you'll ever get from angling.
-
Reminded me of someone who posted that fishing was hot at the mouth of the Seymour as part of a psychology experiment. Within 2 hours there were several dozen of fishermen down there.
-
No one has ever become a good angler by reading online reports.
haha you probably dissapointed quite a few people with that comment :P
Joking aside, interesting discussion going on here. I just thought I'd share my thoughts as a newbie to salmon fishing. After-all seeing things in different perspectives is always a good thing. For me, I didn't really grow up with fishing (my dad was never into it). I'd always been into nature, boats, hiking etc. but I was always the one initiating it. With fishing, learning on my own has been really difficult and I can't say enough about forums like these in terms of helping noobs out! I just think as some previous posters have explained it is truely difficult to connect to people that you have never met face to face. I think makes everyone just a little cautious or even suspicious which is unfortunate but at the same time justifiable. In my posts ive made so far I've tried to ask reasonable questions and have tried to answer the questions myself before asking, as well as never asking for exact spots locations which I think is common sense. I'm studying geography right now at school and love being outdoors. I've been exploring the Vedder by myself the past couple weeks and have been learning lots. I've met some great people, as well as some not so great people haha. Having to drive 1.5 back and from richmond while losing spoon after spoon and being flat out broke is kind of frustrating but Im only getting more knowledgable as time progresses. But that being said I guess I have some simpathy for the idea of the internet as a sharing tool (when used the right way of course) because I think of myself trying to learn and how hard it is to find out certain things. Its never been said to me but i've seen the line: "go checkout the river for your self / explore" so many times on here, and half of the time the poster was never asking a specific spot or anything. I guess I just have simpathy because I have put in time learning/exploring this year and am happy to share what I know/just learned (not much though ahahah)
anyways.. and afterall we cant really complain about the net while posting in this online forum can we?
haha just thinking out loud i guess..