Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: top fuel on August 16, 2011, 06:19:34 PM
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There is so much negative dicusion about flossing, I was wondering if those against, fish for soxs. and if so enlighten on how.
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No Kiddin, share
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There is so much negative dicusion about flossing, I was wondering if those against, fish for soxs. and if so enlighten on how.
Been discussed for years on this and other forums, no need to rehash. ::)
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Been discussed for years on this and other forums, no need to rehash. ::)
So I guess we wont be seeing another video of Peg Leg or the scale bar on here ever again from you.
As far as another way of catching sockeye in the Fraser, BB is the only productive way that I have seen.
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So I guess we wont be seeing another video of Peg Leg or the scale bar on here ever again from you.
As far as another way of catching sockeye in the Fraser, BB is the only productive way that I have seen.
There has to be a point where we weigh the relationship between "productive" and "ethical"
J
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There has to be a point where we weigh the relationship between "productive" and "ethical"
J
Commercial fishing is productive....... is it ethical?
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Commercial fishing is productive....... is it ethical?
You need to go fishing dude !!, what does commercial fishing have to do with flossing sockeye ??
Commercial fishing is an industry that feeds the world abroad, ethics are to be left to sport, end of story ::)
Flossing fish ?? Not sport and not commercial, it's in a category all by itself and I don't care to partake in it personally.
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Commercial fishing is productive....... is it ethical?
Well there are ethical avenues. Unfortunately, ethical and profitable seem to be mutually exclusive in the minds of the commercial fishermen. But, quite frankly, that isn't an industry I know enough about to really make judgement either way. I've heard good things about purse seining in Oregon, but again I can only remember bits and pieces. Also, I know that Alaska has limited the by-catch of chinook salmon to 25,000lb's, and when that number is reached the Pollock fishery is closed.
My limited knowledge of the commercial fishery aside, I think that as sport anglers we need to examine our methods in a more critical light. I do not believe that a method that is blatantly snagging is sporting at all...where is the sport in that? So either you are a sportfisherman who targets fish in a sporting and environmentally sound manner, or you are somebody who forgoes ethics and tosses big ol' betties and monster leaders to fill the freezer? My opinion.
J
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In the context of this fishery, I find the use of the word "ethics" to be interesting. Ethics, the law, right and wrong, absolute ethics vs personal values...great conversation topic.
Alaskans are allowed to dip net for sockeye. For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baDGJGv05Pc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baDGJGv05Pc) Is this ethical?
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Alaskans are allowed to dip net for sockeye.
Their also allowed to snag fish, using monster treble hooks with weight on the shaft {no wool needed}, just as long as their in the river system, not the ocean {but basically a rocks throw away from it}. They stand on the breakwater's looking down at the river and WHAM !!
I watched guys hauling in 40+ lb chinnook when I was fishing halibut out of Seward, Alaska.
Should have seen some of the rods they were using too!! As big around as your wrist with spinning reels the size of footballs, something else I tell ya. ::)
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Ethics be left to sport fishing? lol. Commercial fisherman should be held to the highest regard with respect to ethics...if not more so than sport fisherman. The impact your nets place on the sockeye population are far more damaging than the mere 2 sockeye I retain this entire year from bottom bouncing/"flossing". Furthermore, i see know difference what so ever between flossing or using a net. Both are methods used to merely harvest meat. At least I harvest only what I consume.
Ethics be left to sport fishing...lol. Perhaps we should target the little guy instead of the corporations dumping toxic wastes or the japanese whaling fleets killing whales at will...right? I mean, they are feeding and providing material goods abroad...right? lol
And as far as flossing goes...ask all the sport fishing guides what method they use and teach their clients when sockeye fishing!
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Ethics be left to sport fishing? lol. Commercial fisherman should be held to the highest regard with respect to ethics...if not more so than sport fisherman. The impact your nets place on the sockeye population are far more damaging than the mere 2 sockeye I retain this entire year from bottom bouncing/"flossing". Furthermore, i see know difference what so ever between flossing or using a net. Both are methods used to merely harvest meat. At least I harvest only what I consume.
Ethics be left to sport fishing...lol. Perhaps we should target the little guy instead of the corporations dumping toxic wastes or the japanese whaling fleets killing whales at will...right? I mean, they are feeding and providing material goods abroad...right? lol
And as far as flossing goes...ask all the sport fishing guides what method they use and teach their clients when sockeye fishing!
Yes, Commerical fisherman should be but they aren't. The point is that this isn't really "sport" fishing as much as it is meat fishing. As far as guiding services go, I'm not really 100% sure why you would need a guide to get you out flossing for sockeye but w/e...
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Accept that if you want sox outside of the chuck, then you are 'harvesting', by the only available method, not sport fishing.
Don't want to participate? Then don't.
Get your fly rod and throw chironomids at rising sockeyes all day. You will have satisfied your need to keep all your fishing related activities narrowly defined as a 'sport'. You will also be buying your sockeyes at Safeway.
Does anyone really think that the average fisherman on here really relishes the thought of spending their afternoon flossing? If there was an alternative, if they would bite in fresh water, we'd use it. Just like we do for every other species of fish and salmon. And it would be far more enjoyable.
But don't take any wooden nickels from a guy who claims to be doing anything other than harvesting when it comes to sockeye. Flossing is, in effect, a micro-scale commercial fishery, 2 fish per day. No more sport involved than if you were hauling them in with a net.
Or one final way of looking at it: would you prefer that all sport fishermen were banned from flossing sockeyes? Thereby leaving 100% of the run for the FN and commercial guys? Would that make you feel better?
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Blah Blah Blah, same ol' BS every year ::)
The topic wasn't about commercial fishing, toxic waste, or even whaling for that matter.
Maybe you need to read the title again boys ::)
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Accept that if you want sox outside of the chuck, then you are 'harvesting', by the only available method, not sport fishing.
Don't want to participate? Then don't.
Get your fly rod and throw chironomids at rising sockeyes all day. You will have satisfied your need to keep all your fishing related activities narrowly defined as a 'sport'. You will also be buying your sockeyes at Safeway.
Does anyone really think that the average fisherman on here really relishes the thought of spending their afternoon flossing? If there was an alternative, if they would bite in fresh water, we'd use it. Just like we do for every other species of fish and salmon. And it would be far more enjoyable.
But don't take any wooden nickels from a guy who claims to be doing anything other than harvesting when it comes to sockeye. Flossing is, in effect, a micro-scale commercial fishery, 2 fish per day. No more sport involved than if you were hauling them in with a net.
Or one final way of looking at it: would you prefer that all sport fishermen were banned from flossing sockeyes? Thereby leaving 100% of the run for the FN and commercial guys? Would that make you feel better?
You've missed the point.
If I want sockeye, I do target them in the salt. Simple as that. And you describe the "average fisherman's" decision as one that is life-or-death. I don't enjoy the flossing, I don't think it's very sporting, so I don't participate. I would agree with you that this is a micro-scale commercial fishery.
And "banned" from flossing sockeyes - no. I can't control the populous, and as much as the DFO may try, they cannot either. People are going to floss for sockeye. Also, making me feel better is not the issue here so I don't think that is relevant.
Blah Blah Blah, same ol' BS every year ::)
The topic wasn't about commercial fishing, toxic waste, or even whaling for that matter.
Maybe you need to read the title again boys ::)
Amen
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The complete thread title was supposed to be:
"for those who are against flossing their teeth while commercial fishing for toxic whales"
also known as bitchen and fishen
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Get your fly rod and throw chironomids at rising sockeyes all day. You will have satisfied your need to keep all your fishing related activities narrowly defined as a 'sport'. You will also be buying your sockeyes at Safeway.
At least you got the "fly rod" part right, and no, not the one's with T-14's and weighted down fly's attached to it either. That's just a cooler way to floss for some guys. ::)
A simple slime line on the StCroix #6 single hander and a few patterns that have done well for me in the past is all I use. I definitely have to work for them, but I get my share, along with the ones given to me by a commercial friend of course. No Safeway and no flossing needed in this house.
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who sport fishes for sockeye? They are not a sport fish! If you don't like bottom bouncing, go use gear in the vedder, catch as many pink (not sport fish either) as you want, and call yourself a sport fishermen.
I, on the other hand, love the taste of fresh sockeye and catch them to eat. For those who catch sockeye for sport, you are merely catching a fish, stressing it, potentially injuring it and killing it and then releasing it to die.
I don't know what you sport fish for but I tend to stay away from sport fishing sockeye, pinks, and even chum (due to low population in the vedder).
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who sport fishes for sockeye? They are not a sport fish! If you don't like bottom bouncing, go use gear in the vedder, catch as many pink (not sport fish either) as you want, and call yourself a sport fishermen.
I, on the other hand, love the taste of fresh sockeye and catch them to eat. For those who catch sockeye for sport, you are merely catching a fish, stressing it, potentially injuring it and killing it and then releasing it to die.
I don't know what you sport fish for but I tend to stay away from sport fishing sockeye, pinks, and even chum (due to low population in the vedder).
So what is your definition of a "sport fish"? I would argue that sockeye are one of the more challenging sport fish out there as they are not as easy to get to bite.
I would also argue that it's not the fish that makes it sporting but the angling method that differentiates between sport fishing and meat fishing.
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$22 at Fisherman's Wharf yesterday, this is what they looked like, a little off topic but cheap to buy them when you consider gas but then I will drive a hundred miles one way for a few jack. ;D
I filmed this yesterday at Stevenson on the Fisherman's wharf at a
Commercial boat with Max, he knows his fish too :-)
http://youtu.be/dCxtwo5AIrU
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--I believe the intended question was can you actually catch sockeye.
--From my experience as a kokanut... pursuer of the sometimes not so little cousin of the sockeye. I say yes... they can be caught.
--I fished for spawning kokanee in a controlled experiment... we could see the fish thus no doubt if they were snagged, flossed or caught..
--My definition of caught is they actively pursued the lure.. bit at it and were hooked in the mouth.
--I used various small spinners orange and red with single barbless hooks and observed fish chase bite and be hooked and released.
--I also observed others catch kokanee on a small orange fly and small spoons.
--Several fish were... snagged or flossed... especially in the early days of the experiment, primarily becuase those fishing did not believe they could actually catch the kokanee... we soon dialed in to catching.. significantly reducing snagging and flossing to the point where the vast majority of fish were caught.
--I don't think it is a big leap to assume that sockeye could also be caught if that is what you choose to do.
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--I don't think it is a big leap to assume that sockeye could also be caught if that is what you choose to do.
Just ask the many people targeting red springs this year on the vedder who found themselves into several sockeye each day.
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I concider myself a "sport" fisherman I generally cacth and release the odd time kill for table fair,I dont floss it dosnt make me happy,saying that couse I dont want to cofuse people before I ask this question.
What in this conversation about"ETHICS" and sport fishing makes you think in any way that "sportfishing" no matter what techincue you use to catch a fish is "ETHICAL" to begin with?
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Every Year Blah Blah Blah
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I concider myself a "sport" fisherman I generally cacth and release the odd time kill for table fair,I dont floss it dosnt make me happy,saying that couse I dont want to cofuse people before I ask this question.
What in this conversation about"ETHICS" and sport fishing makes you think in any way that "sportfishing" no matter what techincue you use to catch a fish is "ETHICAL" to begin with?
--I like to use conveniently nice sounding words to describe my fishing... I am a selective harvester... that is I catch fish to eat... I release non target species or those not in the size I wish to keep. As I have a recration license I follow the recreational fishing limits and catch regulations.. As I only keep a few fish I mainly use single barbless.. for holding power sickle or circle hooks.
--Having said that I'm not all that pure as I sometimes fish the kettle which in most sections is catch and release only. I'll call that practicing.
--I'm not a vegetarian but do enjoy a garden fresh meal and can live without meat or fish if I have to .
--I try not to get to hung up on what others do except when they break the existing regulations. If I do not like a current regulation I do my best to get it changed by convincing fishing clubs to support resolutions to change and squawking as much as possible about it... but with constructive alternatives to the regulation given.
--I believe we can only define ourselvess so try not to get to hung up on what others think but will try to conscider their comments. I try, maybe not always succesful to not use the word ethical as a sharp stick to poke someone with.
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I think the entire arguement is too far simplified. For me the issue has never been flossing sockeye on the Fraser or not. I accept there is a niche for flossing sockeye on the Fraser. I don't participate not because I'm a purist but because standing shoulder to shoulder with 50-100 guys isn't fishing to me. To me fishing is some peace and quiet on the water and catching a fish is a bonus. For me the problem is the when the combat fishing, got to get my fish mentality moves to smaller rivers.
I grew up fishing and if some guy came and setup within 25 feet of you on the river he was at best pushing his luck and he knew it. These days you get people who walk up and start fishing right beside you without a "how do you do" before they start casting across your line to get to the hole you were at first. And let's not forget the fact they are fishing with an insanely long leader and with or without of float are hitting the bottom so often that within an hour you're going to have 3 pieces of lead, hooks, and line messing up your hole too. Oh and dude, pick up your garbage.
If someone wants to go floss some sox on the Fraser I have no problem. Just know that that form of fishing is an anomaly and not the norm when you come to where I'm fishing.
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You need to go fishing dude !!, what does commercial fishing have to do with flossing sockeye ??
Commercial fishing is an industry that feeds the world abroad, ethics are to be left to sport, end of story ::)
Flossing fish ?? Not sport and not commercial, it's in a category all by itself and I don't care to partake in it personally.
I believe on our fishing license it's called recreational not sports.
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I wonder how many of the snaggers sockeye end up freezer burnt?
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Every Year Blah Blah Blah
X2 This Horse gets beaten to death every year.
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Unfortunately flossing is becoming a go to method for getting fish outside of the usual sockeye opening. I recently witnessed a guy trying to floss with his expensive center pin set up in the lower Fraser. He saw another old guy like himself snagging pinks and it put him in "fever mode". The other guy was giving him pointers. He ignored the fact that I was catching them on lures because the other guy had more fish on. But I ended up landing the same amount.
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on our fishing license it's called recreational not sports.
Here here!!
:)
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Most people going fishing just want to treat it a recreation. So it is an appropriate title. I am not sure why we fish for sports. Sports are infested with steroid users. Not much ethics there. ;D I am happy to fish for recreation, using the most effective method allowed by DFO. If sport fishing means challenging or more difficult, then sockeyes do not qualify. Steehlead & coho are much more like a sport fish then millions of soc. Driving 2 hours to take your limit in 2 casts is not sporting by any means. :D
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Most people going fishing just want to treat it a recreation. So it is an appropriate title. I am not sure why we fish for sports. Sports are infested with steroid users. Not much ethics there. ;D I am happy to fish for recreation, using the most effective method allowed by DFO. If sport fishing means challenging or more difficult, then sockeyes do not qualify. Steehlead & coho are much more like a sport fish then millions of soc. Driving 2 hours to take your limit in 2 casts is not sporting by any means. :D
-- gofish often plants sterile fis and has trophy catch and release only lakes.. many feel these fish shouldn't count and in future may get an IGFA * asterisk just like the ball players if record is broken. If we didn't have a major wind storm going on here... I'd just go fishing instead of thinking about it.
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Or one final way of looking at it: would you prefer that all sport fishermen were banned from flossing sockeyes? Thereby leaving 100% of the run for the FN and commercial guys? Would that make you feel better?
This would make me feel better. If people are interested in this fishery only because it's a means to get them, consider the economic comparison of spending gas money and going to Steveston once and buying all the sockeye you want and more (also higher quality) for a whole season vs going and spending hours on the river, losing gear, gas, and time.
Now with all that saved time, you could spend a few hours tossing chironomids at trout and certainly not be wasting your time!
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If the DFO was so concerned obout flossing, why did they lift leader lenth restrictions?
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If the DFO was so concerned obout flossing, why did they lift leader lenth restrictions?
You assume DFO knows what they are doing. Just look at how 'well' they managed the east coast....
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You assume DFO knows what they are doing. Just look at how 'well' they managed the east coast....
So are you saying the recreational sector killed it....
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If the DFO was so concerned obout flossing, why did they lift leader lenth restrictions?
--If you're going to floss leader length isn't an issue... can tie a spoon or spinner direct to a line and snagg.. not finese flossing but just as effective.
--how would you define a leader in court...different from main lne, line below a swivel etc. (inteded to be retorical questions)
--its not the rules that are at issue.
--really it is the person on the end of the rod that knows for certain if they are flossing or not.
--I like the speed signs in some states in USA.... they have stretches of road with big sign... speed limits strictly enforced!
--I think this would work as when I have driven through these signed areas... they nail you.. no question.
--So just admit that some fisheries and areas the management strategy is to allow harvest by any means to a maximum quota then fishery is closed in that area or the area after two weeks of harvest or quota is reached then is signed...recreational sport fishing rules strictly enforced... and do it!
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Leader length is obviously an issue. Talk to anyone at scale bar as to the effectiveness of a 15 foot leader vs 5 foot leader. They will tell you that a 30 foot leader is the way to go.
If flossing with a short leader is significantly less effective then more people will switch to more effective methods.
Leader length is the distance from the weight (or end of the weight in the case of a sink tip fly line) to the terminal tackle.
A spoon tied to mainline has no leader.