Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: fishgutz63 on March 07, 2011, 11:25:52 PM
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just watched late news about 15 km pipeline going into richmond for supplying the airport with fuel then bringing tankers into steveston to fill the pipeline ,multi million dollar price tag.what are your opinions
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There is a proposal to ship or tank barge jet fuel up the main arm of the Fraser R & I assume somewhere near ther south end of #5 Rd unload the fuel & then pipeline it across Richmond to the International Vancouver Airport YVR.
As it is now tanker trucks bring the fuel to the airport.
If I'm not mistaken they will load the jet fuel in the Burrard Inlet then out to Georgia Straight ,then up the Fraser R then pipeline it to the airport. (crazy is my thoughts)
Tanker full of jet fuel coming up the Fraser R ...did ya ever see the the marine traffic plus that sharp narrow C curve past Gerry Park(down river). ----- What if there is a major spill (can hapen at unloading or by marine collison) Plus a pipeline under the streets in Richmond ??? What if there is a earthquake or cracks & toxic fumes etc etc... SEEMS LIKE A CRAZY IDEA TO ME. Your thoughts ??? ??? ??? ADD IN ...or a MAJOR FIRE or EXPLOSION on the ship/barge/or pipeline. :o
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Sorry fishgutz63 ,,,I just posted to the GENERAL area about this subject , not knowing that ya already got the "ball rolling".
Rod moved my post immeadiately to the Fishing-related Issues & News under your already started topic.
Glad ya started it as the whole idea seems really really CRAZY TO ME.
I would not want to have a home within 2 miles of that pipe. The people of Richmond should be OUTRAGED & all sports fishermen/ladies. The mayor does not want it either BUT apparantly HIGHER POWERS OF GOV. can over rule the mayor & the people of Richmond no matter how they feel about it. :o
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yes i agree with you i think this idea is just totally insane i think we have too much to loose at stake here >:(
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15, maybe 20 years ago a similar proposal was put forward with the tanker terminal in the North Arm just downstream from MacDonald Beach. That was shot down due to environmental concerns. I think that is still the default option if this pipeline proposal doesn't fly. It is just about as bad but at least it would be close to the eventual storage tanks.
Did you ever hear of a terminal that didn't have a major spill at some point.
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CRAZY they are talking about making older schools more earthquake proof THEN in the same breath want to put a 15 km jet fuel PIPELINE across the residental Richmond. Yesterday JAPAN had that MAJOR EARTHQUAKE 130 km away from their country NEVERTHELESS it was so major it created a tidal wave & shook buildings & created MAJOR damage.
Fires were started ALL OVER because of broken fuel/natural gas pipes etc.... oil refinery on fire...nuclear plants damaged ETC...
The BC coast is on the RING OF RING (earthquake zone) & can ya imagine that jet fuel pipeline/storage tanks/barge/ship transport spilling it's load...AFTER PIPELINE BREAKS !!!.....after a MAJOR EARTHQUAKE that easily could hit our area !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God help us it the fuel ignites which it 99% will happen as all it takes is a burning cig. (yes a cig temp is enough to ignite jelled jet fuel) NO NO NO NO to this pipeline. CRAZY IDEA. Ya sure will not see politians or people in the know living near the pipe. People's home prices will also drop ALOT if ya live near it.
Plus if ya have kids....the pipe may develope small leaks here & there...& get into the soil & into the water table...slowly into the rivers......
(ever see gas stations shutting down as they have to replace their underground fuel tanks as many delevope leaks after a "X" # of years. A major earthquake will damge this pipeline. (We in Richmond have to worry if the two major dams up river will hold after a major quake so we do not need this added worry ) :o :o :o
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A major earthquake will damge this pipeline. (We in Richmond have to worry if the two major dams up river will hold after a major quake so we do not need this added worry ) :o :o :o
not saying I don't agree with your concerns but what two major dams are you referring to??
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not saying I don't agree with your concerns but what two major dams are you referring to??
Stave & Alouette?
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Yep Stave & the other Coquitam Lake(river).
Plus the dam(s) on the northshore...
Should we get a major quake such as the one Japan experienced........... (& we are in an area where the quake will cause plates to move in a major sideways direction thus the effect causes tidal waves & also lots of ground shaking....dams could break) ..........the possibilities are major damage & possibly those dams to break....
That is alot of stored water in the Coquitlam & Stave Lake....
Boaters tell of Sandheads at the mouth of the Fraser R to sometimes haave dangerous standing waves ....just think of a wall of water coming down in a westward direction should the dams break....then a tidal wave coming eastward from the earthquake ...when those two bodies of water collide...that's would be one MAJOR STANDING WAVE !!!!
But kids teens families will live close to that proposed pipeline & in an earthquake the families will be in DANGER as the pipe could break & result in explosions & major fires....
...........so if the Gov. cares about the kids at schools as they repaired them to earthquake standards...& are still repairing schools at this very moment....WHY do not care about kids who may live to this proposed pipeline ??? that may explode after a quake !!!! :o :o :o
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Dams wouldn't be your first concern in Richmond during earthquake.
Dykes breaking, liquefaction would happen before those dams.
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Yes BwiBwi I've heard of ground becoming literally like QUICKSAND during an earthquake....& can see Richmond becoming a QUICKSAND quite fast ...after a major quake.
As ya say add to the fact the dykes would be damaged & the river could flood the land as well....
But add in the pipeline breaking & catching on fire....plus a wall of water that would be like a tidal wave in itself ....should the entire Coquitlam & Stave lakes flow out if & should the dams give way.
Not going to worry about it ...BUT my question is if the BIG BOYS are so concerned about our kids safety should a major quake hit us....(reno the schools as they are doing) THEN why are they proposing a jet fuel pipeline to go across Richmond ???? (should a quake hit this pipeline will endanger our kids & everyone.)
We do not need a pipeline built where homes & families are located. BOO BOO BOO BOO ;D
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The madness, time to move to Mars.
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The madness, time to move to Mars.
Yes...I hear marsquakes are relatively minor compared to earthquakes...and no tsunamis to worry about...unless they have sandwaves?
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Possibly that's why they are making the space station....or why they sent a missle aimed at the moon & exploded a deep crator....then they via tests concluded there was ice in the hole thus....claim one day a moon station could be built & they would have plenty of water suppy............ all in all to escape this earth !!!
I assume only the billionaires & Presidents & space crew would be the special ones to take advantage if & when this world gets too polluted/or WW 111, major quakequakes or volcanos events happening more & more etc................
Exedus or the GREAT ESCAPE off this planet ....not a far fetched idea for the very ELECT or CHOSEN FEW !!!! ;D
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Possibly that's why they are making the space station....or why they sent a missle aimed at the moon & exploded a deep crator....then they via tests concluded there was ice in the hole thus....claim one day a moon station could be built & they would have plenty of water suppy............ all in all to escape this earth !!!
I assume only the billionaires & Presidents & space crew would be the special ones to take advantage if & when this world gets too polluted/or WW 111, major quakequakes or volcanos events happening more & more etc................
Exedus or the GREAT ESCAPE off this planet ....not a far fetched idea for the very ELECT or CHOSEN FEW !!!! ;D
not sure what your'e smoking A-BOATER but I want some :D
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Dave I'm not a fear monger or bearer of sad & gloomy news....BUT experts are warning for a MAJOR QUAKE that will hit the Pacific coast in the next 50 yrs.... MAJOR as in MAJOR. Iceland had that volcano that covered their lands with thick ash & stopped planes in Europe etc...for some time.....earthquake in Haiti recently & in New Zealand which will take many more yrs to fix...now in Japan.
Plus the flood in Australia....ask those people about "how normal life on this earth is.
Plus the hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico & floods "Katrinia"......plus the tidal wave from an earthquake that hit South ASIA ...250,000 killed ??? Lets just say if these these plants that are damaged in Japan cannot be controlled & there is a meltdown & explosions like what happened in Cherynobol(sp) ....or 3 Mile Island ...But should WW 3 come about or more & more earthquakes ...
(look how just having two buildings colapse affected our world & still does "TWIN TOWERS") Ironically Matthew ch 24 tells that increased EARTHQUAKES are a sign of the end times before the Jesus 2nd return to the Earth !!! (Catholics & Protestants believe in the 2nd coming of the Savior) Book of Revelations & other prophets in the Bible also predict a MAJOR WAR that will come...3.5 yrs into a 7 yr Peace Treaty between Isreal & the Arab World. Russia & my guess Iran will be in the attack...Isreal will use nuclear bombs to repel the attack ...& Russian will retreat....then a 700 million man army will come from the east & sweep thru the Middle East ...possibly the Chinese Army /combined with the India Army ??? Anyways it says in the GOOD BOOK 1/3 of the things in the air 1/3 of the things in the water & 1/3 of the things on the land will be destroyed !!!!! BATTLE OF ARMEDGEDON (sp)At this point the Savior returns to bring peace.
100's of MILLIONS believe in this idea. :o :o
But all I can say...there are alot of weird things happening on this planet in the last few yrs....
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Gotta watch those Chinese, they're unpredictably dangerous. ;)
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The Nostradomus Effect isn't too far out of the question then eh!! First time steelheaders better get out there, you only got a year left ;D
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Possibly that's why they are making the space station....or why they sent a missle aimed at the moon & exploded a deep crator....then they via tests concluded there was ice in the hole thus....claim one day a moon station could be built & they would have plenty of water suppy............ all in all to escape this earth !!!
I assume only the billionaires & Presidents & space crew would be the special ones to take advantage if & when this world gets too polluted/or WW 111, major quakequakes or volcanos events happening more & more etc................
Exedus or the GREAT ESCAPE off this planet ....not a far fetched idea for the very ELECT or CHOSEN FEW !!!!
When do you plan to ESCAPE off this planet, A-BOATER? Do you need a ride to the launch pad anytime soon? I am sure the CHOSEN FEW will make an exception in your particular case once they are aware of your circumstances. There might be a nice, quiet room awaiting you one day on the moon. Don't worry about it - it will all work out.
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shuswapsteve...... 7 posts total ....maybe ya will post more often ;D
Steve I'll take my chances here along with the other billions....
Yes China would love to have a piece of the action in the Middle East ....lotta oil there. (worth more than gold...) Who controls the oil will in the future control the world. It would be nice if the citizens in Libya wanted to become part of Canada....we'd have all the oil to meet our needs for a very long time !!! (small country actually ...maybe 500 miles across & 400-500 miles N to South)
But should this war take place "Russia attacks Isreal" as The Book of Revelations" etc...points out...I'm sure China will step in possibility with the idea to try to stop the crazyness before the other countries NUKE THE WHOLE WORLD.
Because if that happens there will be no China or Africa or Asia or N or S America either....
They (China) may march in as to try to control the situation like police cars arrive to stop a parking lot fight so to say.
As for a space station on the moon....well the space program NASA is going to privatize ...thus major companies will invest their dollars...so the USA gov. does not have to put so much of the taxpayers money into it. But after they exploded that missle on the moon within the last yr they said at the bottom of the hole (made from the bomb blast) they said it exposed "ice". They went on to say possibly one day a space station could be build there & the ice would be used for the water supply. Personally if the world goes on.....existing then my guess it will be 50-100 yrs down the road before any station would be built.
Right now though let's just hope the Japanese can control the damaged nuclear plants . :o
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Wow A-Boater......from an Avgas pipeline in Richmond to Armageddon and the coming of ?......5 days stillwater fly fishing is my prescription for your conniption!
I think all of our North Shore and Fraser Valley dams have now been seismically upgraded to meet the highest earthquake that they could credibly experience so they are the least of your worries. But liquefaction of most of Richmond is a certainty...it's rated high to extremely high probability...and that would definitely hit a fixed pipeline. And overtopping of the dykes would be the one-two punch. But I thought it was a transfer pipeline that would only carry Avgas when they are doing a transfer...unlike an oil pipeline. Timing is everything....
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I think all of our North Shore and Fraser Valley dams have now been seismically upgraded to meet the highest earthquake that they could credibly experience so they are the least of your worries.
Actually, the upgrades to the Ruskin Dam is still in the planning stages. DANGER Will Robinson DANGER. Also, I am not sure what you mean by "upgraded to meet the highest earthquake they could credibly experience". Keep in mind that the danger of a mega thrust quake (like the 8.9 quake that struck Japan) is as high here in BC (or even higher). BC has the same plate structure as Japan (oceanic-continental convergence), but we have not had a mega thrust quake in over 300 years (all of our recorded quakes have occurred within the Juan de Fuca or North American plates, not along the boundary). This could mean that the stress has been building for the last 300 years and we are over due for a major slip. While most of the dams have undergone seismic upgrades, they are only upgraded to withstand the largest quake they are capable of withstanding. The Ruskin dam upgrades are expected to allow the dam to withstand a 7.5 quake. The 8.9 quake that struck Japan would be over 10 time stronger than a 7.5 and while it would likely be 100 km away, such a quake would exceed the current engineering standards if it struck closer to home (the Juan de Fuca plate slides right under the North American Plate).
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StillAqua ...From what I understand the fuel will come up river via fuel barge or tanker ship & then as ya say transfer it into the pipeline......to storage tanks at the airport...but with the continous filling of planes...the storage tanks will have to be re-filled so my assumption is the pipeline will be flowing "alot of the time" ....5 - 10 - 25% of the time it is still a big risk to the families of Richmond.
Plus if there is a major spill & what if there are millions of salmon gathering at Sandheads (river's mouth) ...could wipe out alot of salmon & marine life... Yes we cover it all on FWR ...A-Z in views & topics ...it's a "hard job"but someone gotta do it ;D
Dams may be upgraded & good that they are or will be as Sandman pts out "Ruskin Dam"(are ya the same Sandman from SK?...Howdy if so)
Also Sandman I see ya edited in alot more INFO to your "post" & must say it is very INTERESTING what ya point out. FOR SURE.
Homes are selling at good prices now in Richmond...makes one to consider to sell & live on higher ground :-\
.........Believe me I do not sit around all day & ring my hands as I do have my pleasures & hobbies etc...nevertheless did say a prayer in Williams Lake BC way back in 1973...& had an encounter with the "guy upstairs"right after SO I tend to believe what the "GOOD BOOK" says. (no wasn't on drugs or am "crazy")....That's why Matthew 24 which says that there will be increased earthqukes as one of the "signs"grabs my attention.
There's more to what we see with our eyes.
But when it comes to Mother Nature ...it is all timing...Mt St Helens blew ...& caused SO MUCH DAMAGE...loss of some lives..tidal waves....major earthquakes ...the victims one minute were safe & sound & in an instant ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE !!! That tidal wave that hit Japan was 30 ft high...size of a house !!!!
Life is being safe & prepared & be wise according to all the info out there...BUT yes we all have to enjoy life with our interests & for many of us it is fishing/boatings etc.....could not agree more.
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Actually, the upgrades to the Ruskin Dam is still in the planning stages. DANGER Will Robinson DANGER. Also, I am not sure what you mean by "upgraded to meet the highest earthquake they could credibly experience". Keep in mind that the danger of a mega thrust quake (like the 8.9 quake that struck Japan) is as high here in BC (or even higher). BC has the same plate structure as Japan (oceanic-continental convergence), but we have not had a mega thrust quake in over 300 years (all of our recorded quakes have occurred within the Juan de Fuca or North American plates, not along the boundary). This could mean that the stress has been building for the last 300 years and we are over due for a major slip. While most of the dams have undergone seismic upgrades, they are only upgraded to withstand the largest quake they are capable of withstanding. The Ruskin dam upgrades are expected to allow the dam to withstand a 7.5 quake. The 8.9 quake that struck Japan would be over 10 time stronger than a 7.5 and while it would likely be 100 km away, such a quake would exceed the current engineering standards if it struck closer to home (the Juan de Fuca plate slides right under the North American Plate).
I would have thought they were further along with Ruskin Dam after they announced all the money in last year's BC budget. Anyway, "Maximum Cedible Earthquake" is the seismic design standard the dams are being upgraded to and it's a function of the worst predicted earthquake and maximum ground acceleration that a particular dam could "credibly" experience. Distance from the epicenter and local geology is key because even with a 9.0 megathrust subduction quake off Vancouver Island, the actual ground acceleration you'd see at the Ruskin is supposed to be included in the standard. I'm far more concerned about southern Vancouver Island.
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If I owned a home in "Richman" I would sell. That place is going to sink earthquake or not. There was a study done (which nobody wants to talk about) that said the whole area sunk many times because of the weight on the sand pile. For some the place is good luck. But even good luck runs out sometimes ::).
Safely (somewhat) watching from the high ground in Newton, and hoping something good washes up on the new beach below.