Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: arimaBOATER on January 25, 2011, 04:13:32 PM
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Watched a tv program about the Orca whale pods in the PNW. Groups that go into the Puget Sound in Wa. & in our area BC waters.
The marine scientists (bio) stated that Orcas are dying sooner then they once did. Life spans are shorter because of the VERY HIGH PCBs found in their systems...the males tend to be EXTRA LOADED with them as the females get rid of the chemicals as it is in the milk...but the problem is the baby Orcas get them.
The PCB's are now banned in Canada & the program pointed out that that only Russia that allows them to still be used.
(bet other countries are still dumping alot of PCBs in the oceans that we don't know about. China hasn't got the greatest environmental record either...India etc...many other countries)
When I was a floor waxer & did buildings(including industrial) all over the area...witnessed over flows of chemicals that MUST of landed into our waters.
All these chemicals (Rod sometime ago mentioned about all the plastic containers that land in the oceans) PCB's etc...that go into our waters ...get into the marine food chain & into the salmon ..into the whales.(of course whales do eat alot of salmon thus PCBs build up quickly) Heard stories how ALOT of the clean up wkers have died already after the Valdez spill in Alaskan waters. Sadly I think the oceans can just take so much POLLUTIONS of the world & the oceans have become ONE BIG DUMPING GROUND...
my question is & concern is are our fish safe to eat ?????? They contain PCB's which cause CANCER.
Air pollution un-safe ground water tables in many areas (well water) Though I hear Chillowack has nearly the FRESHEST CLEANEST WATER IN THE WORLD (GOES THREW LAYERS OF SAND THUS IT IS NATURALLY FILTERED)----Are you concerned about eating fish that have harmful chemicals in them??? Cancers are on the rise. ??? ??? ???
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I also saw the show, very heart warming story the PCB`s were informative and a bit scary but the part i found most, intresting was the orca language. I couldent believe that orcas who live around vancouver island and more southern ones have different ascents. Each pod had its own 12 or so unique calls thats passed down to each generation. Just amazing how little we know about nature and our place in it.
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I'm not sure what OP is posting about-PCBs in Orcas or fish or Chilliwack.
FWIW-the ground water in the Fraser Valley is contaminated with cow my smelly socks so bad in some places it's not even funny I never drink the stuff ever.
I do eat Salmon weekly though.
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Dogbreath Take your pick ...but if ya read "carefully" the MAIN JEST of the post is on POLLUTION in our marine life & with ALL THE POLLUTION in our world ....& as the question at the end of my post asked a question.....Do ya trust the fish we eat as our salmon have PCBs in them ??? That was a hint what I was asking. ;D
PCBs cause cancer.
Floater glad ya caught the program !!! Yes I agree with ya about PCBs being "scary".
Also it is "neat" as ya say about the unique languages of these Orcas. Thought it was also intersting when they put that lost Orca in a sling it did not offer up a fight as it stayed calm...(trusted the people) ;)
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UPDATE : GOOD NEWS studies conclude that wild salmon have far less PCBs than beef (aprox 4x less)
So it is A-OK to eat all the wild salmon that ya want too.
In your google or yahoo (whatever engine ya got) in the general search box type in: ewg pcb in salmon
You will find some very very interesting info FOR SURE. Ya can eat wild salmon daily no problem but farmed salmon has so much PCBs they recommend that ya eat ONLY 1 fish per month. The fish meal (lots of oils) feed has ALOT OF PCBs & that's what they give to the penned fish . :o
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Ya can eat wild salmon daily no problem but farmed salmon has so much PCBs they recommend that ya eat ONLY 1 fish per month. The fish meal (lots of oils) feed has ALOT OF PCBs & that's what they give to the penned fish . :o
When people hear that they may stop buying farmed salmon... Isn't this what the fish farmers commercials were referring to? ;D
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Sadly many families with their small kids in tow may be going to restaurants around the world eating these farm salmon maybe even on a weekly basis thinking the salmon is healthy for them !!!
Really sad when there is no general OUT-CRY.
But by the looks of it I think I'll be cutting down on my beef consumtion as well....seems pork & poultry along with wild salmon may be good choices. But ya don't want the processed pork as then ya have the NITRATES (cancer hazard) ...guess I'll have to use the electric meat grinder...& prepare some ground pork.....
Getting hungry thinking about it already...add in chopped whole wheat crackers (4-5 of them) little salt pepper garlic ...mix in to the freshly ground pork....fry with lid on top of the frying pan with grape seed oil on medium heat (hi heat can smoke this oil & it will become harmful) ....whole wheat buns Ya get the idea. ;)
By the way dear please...throw that just fried farm salmon in the garbage ;D
alwaysfishn yes I've seen those commercials LATELY on the boob tube. Also more tv ads on one food store chain after it was known they do a smell taste on their meats & repackage if product smells ok. Guess when ya apply for a job one question is How's your sense of smell ? ::)
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But by the looks of it I think I'll be cutting down on my beef consumtion as well....seems pork & poultry along with wild salmon may be good choices. But ya don't want the processed pork as then ya have the NITRATES (cancer hazard) ...guess I'll have to use the electric meat grinder...& prepare some ground pork.....
NOT THE BACON!!!! Please, just shoot me.......
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Sorry to burst your bubble, A-BOATER but the coronary heart disease benefits (CHD) of eating farmed or even wild salmon far outweigh the risk of cancer caused by PCB in these fish. It is unfortunate that common sense and perspective gets lost in this.
This is the study that first created most of the controversy: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226
It is true that PCBs cause cancer, but you also have to keep in mind the extremely small concentrations we are likely talking about which are in the parts per million or billion. So, when you say "very high PCBs" or "extra loaded" you need to attach a number to it because what is it being compared to? How long is a piece of string? You idea of high may be quite small in the grand scheme of things. The levels of PCBs found in the above study were less than 1/80th of the acceptable levels established by Health Canada (which is around 2 ppm). That is very small. PCBs are lipophilic meaning that they like to cling to fat, so animal meats that contain more fat like beef, pork and chicken likely contain more PCBs than salmon. Keep that in mind while you enjoy your pork meal. Farmed salmon probably has more fat than wild salmon; however, if you are still concerned about this you can remove any excess fat from the fish. Despite this you are still further ahead eating farmed salmon than by not. Trust me, you or one of your family members is more likely to die from CHD than from cancer caused by not eating enough salmon (whether it is farmed or wild) than by eating farmed salmon with extremely small concentrations of PCBs. You are not in the same ball park if you think that cancer superseeds CHD concerns with this issue. I don't see this as a farmed salmon vs. wild salmon in this regard. It is a public health issue which clearly favours eating salmon whether it is farmed or not.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/environ/pcb-bpc-eng.php
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/surveill/other-autre/fish-poisson/index-eng.php
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/296/15/1885.full
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Ya just may have a point there WHO KNOWS .........
Wonder why scientists would tell people to eat MAX 1 farmed salmon per month ??? :o
Sometimes a person just does not know what INFO to trust. ;D
Just noticed ya have 1 post TOTAL.
Happy that my topic got ya stirred or moved to join FWR.
Will look for more & more of your posts ;)
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Will look for more & more of your posts ;)
X2 great post!
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Sorry to burst your bubble, A-BOATER but the coronary heart disease benefits (CHD) of eating farmed or even wild salmon far outweigh the risk of cancer caused by PCB in these fish. It is unfortunate that common sense and perspective gets lost in this.
This is the study that first created most of the controversy: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226
It is true that PCBs cause cancer, but you also have to keep in mind the extremely small concentrations we are likely talking about which are in the parts per million or billion. So, when you say "very high PCBs" or "extra loaded" you need to attach a number to it because what is it being compared to? How long is a piece of string? You idea of high may be quite small in the grand scheme of things. The levels of PCBs found in the above study were less than 1/80th of the acceptable levels established by Health Canada (which is around 2 ppm). That is very small. PCBs are lipophilic meaning that they like to cling to fat, so animal meats that contain more fat like beef, pork and chicken likely contain more PCBs than salmon. Keep that in mind while you enjoy your pork meal. Farmed salmon probably has more fat than wild salmon; however, if you are still concerned about this you can remove any excess fat from the fish. Despite this you are still further ahead eating farmed salmon than by not. Trust me, you or one of your family members is more likely to die from CHD than from cancer caused by not eating enough salmon (whether it is farmed or wild) than by eating farmed salmon with extremely small concentrations of PCBs. You are not in the same ball park if you think that cancer superseeds CHD concerns with this issue. I don't see this as a farmed salmon vs. wild salmon in this regard. It is a public health issue which clearly favours eating salmon whether it is farmed or not.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/environ/pcb-bpc-eng.php
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/surveill/other-autre/fish-poisson/index-eng.php
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/296/15/1885.full
That's the most convoluted explanation I've ever heard..... Can I paraphrase?......
Farmed salmon have PCB's, and if you are concerned cut the fat off and while your eating those PCB's don't think about PCB's, think about how good salmon is for you. ??? ::)
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Convoluted?? As I said in my post, if you are still concerned about PCB you can remove any excess fat from the fish. However, even if you left the fat in you are still further ahead by eating farmed (or wild) salmon than by not eating it. The benefits of eating farmed or wild salmon are greater than a 1000 fold than by avoiding farmed or wild salmon due to concerns over PCBs.
A-BOATER:
There are circumstances where individuals in our population (i.e. pregnant) are suggested to reduce the amount of certain seafood. In addition, there are places in the world that are very contaminated so advisories on consumption are required. However, the concentrations of PCBs we are talking about for the most part are extremely low. I imagine many people view any concentration of PCB as unacceptable - no matter how small it is. Fair enough, but keep in mind that you are likely consuming greater concentrations of PCB in your other meats like chicken, beef and pork. What it boils down to is perception. An individual reads a study claiming "high" concentrations of PCBs in farmed salmon....but compared to what? How small or how large are the concentrations and how to do they compare to what you are already exposed to already? How do the risks of eating or not eating farm salmon compare? What level of PCB is too high for you? If you look into this you will soon notice that you are more likely to succumb to CHD by not eating a diet that includes farmed or wild salmon. However, to each their own. I will continue eating either farmed or wild salmon because the benefits are pretty clear.
Not sure if I will post a lot on this forum as I frequent a couple others already. It is not that I think you are not friendly. I just saw this particular post and decided to respond to it.
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Convoluted?? As I said in my post, if you are still concerned about PCB you can remove any excess fat from the fish. However, even if you left the fat in you are still further ahead by eating farmed (or wild) salmon than by not eating it. The benefits of eating farmed or wild salmon are greater than a 1000 fold than by avoiding farmed or wild salmon due to concerns over PCBs.
I get your point even though I don't agree with it.... Take a look at the following video.
I guess we could say "......... eating our PCB laden farmed salmon is not as bad for your health as eating these basa fish..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nEPzsFpc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nEPzsFpc0)
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So if I'm getting this right, choose your poisson carefully. Glad I never eat Basa. Thanks for the heads up alwaysfishn.
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I do not see the scientists warning us to eat beef or chicken only 1 time per month BUT they are saying DO NOT EAT farm salmon MORE than 1x per month.
??????
Many scientists have said the same.
Do remember a WHOLE page either in the Prov. or Sun newspapers maybe 10-14 yrs ago....
The findings were from UBC or SFU....they said the same at that time....the magic figure...EAT NO MORE THAN 1 FARMED SALMON PER MONTH.
But MSG in our foods (canned foods & MSG...comes under various other names to "trick us I guess) has been 100% PROVEN to weaken our HEARTS...it makes them "mushy"...thus ready for a heart attack. >:(
That is why some soup co. have advertised NO MSG in our soup.
Nitrates as mentioned...cancer producing.....(YES THE BACON TOO....) Ya chose your poison carefully as mentioned WELL PUT. :D
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But MSG in our foods (canned foods & MSG...comes under various other names to "trick us I guess) has been 100% PROVEN to weaken our HEARTS...it makes them "mushy"...thus ready for a heart attack. >:(
Huh? Glutamate is the most abundant naturally occurring amino acid in our food chain (MSG is just the sodium salt of the amino acid). Humans evolved specialized taste receptors that make glutamate a pleasant taste that we actually seek out in our food (think "meat"). There's no clinical data that glutamate is harmful at any reasonable level of consumption (but everything is toxic at high enough levels including water). The World Health Organization lists it as one of the safest food additives there is. It doesn't deserve the bad rap it's been getting for everything from rashes to impotence....you eat lots of it all the time without knowing it. Won't keep me from the Kung Pao Chicken.
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StillAqua ....check out this on YOU TUBE ...type into their SEARCH BOX ... THE DANGERS OF MSG PART 3 MSG CANCER & YOUR HEART
HealthRanger7 loaded it to YOU TUBE.
Studies show MSG puts alot of FREE RADICALS into our body....weakens our blood vessels & linings of the heart etc...
One chap said his heart got like "jello" mushy after eating a meal with alot of MSG.
One scientist also called MSG a "CANCER FERTILIZER" in this YOU TUBE vid.
Also if ya do a web surf on say "The Dangers of MSG" ya will get ALOT of negative info....about this food additive.
But the info in that top YOU TUBE vid....is quite an EYE OPENNER to say the least.
Just while I'm at it aspertame(sp?) is also a bad sweeter.............................the list keeps getting LLLLLOOOONNNNGGGGGEEEERRRR longer....................... ;D
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Also if ya do a web surf on say "The Dangers of MSG" ya will get ALOT of negative info....about this food additive.
But the info in that top YOU TUBE vid....is quite an EYE OPENNER to say the least.
It's true you can find just about anything on the web........but I have to tell you that over 50 years of scientific research has failed to find any significant negative health affects from an amino acid that our bodies need and that we consume regularly in large quantities. Let's just agree to disagree......and you'll want to stay away from the parmesan cheese and worcestershire sauce. :'(
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I get your point even though I don't agree with it.... Take a look at the following video.
I guess we could say "......... eating our PCB laden farmed salmon is not as bad for your health as eating these basa fish..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nEPzsFpc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nEPzsFpc0)
As I was saying before, there are places in the world which are more contaminated than others. The safe consumption of seafood in one place may not necessarily be comparable to another place. However, what contaminants are being referred to with the fish in the video and what are their concentrations? How do they compared to Health Canada and US Food and Drug Administration guidelines? Once again....how "high" is high? Just because someone says there are contaminants that are carcinogenic is meaningless unless you put some context around it. Many things are known carcinogens and many things that we think of relatively benign can be potentially deadly when taken in high enough concentrations. The wild fish you are eating right now likely contains trace amounts of elements like mercury or some other element which in larger concentrations can be harmful. The internet contains a myrid of videos which will likely show what they want the viewer to see and what they do not want the viewer to see. I do not imagine the FDA or CFIA (Canadian Food Inspection Agency) rips open every box of Basa fillets and test them, but I certainly do not believe they would allow fish from abroad that were not safe to eat.
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I do not see the scientists warning us to eat beef or chicken only 1 time per month BUT they are saying DO NOT EAT farm salmon MORE than 1x per month.
??????
Many scientists have said the same.
Do remember a WHOLE page either in the Prov. or Sun newspapers maybe 10-14 yrs ago....
The findings were from UBC or SFU....they said the same at that time....the magic figure...EAT NO MORE THAN 1 FARMED SALMON PER MONTH.
But MSG in our foods (canned foods & MSG...comes under various other names to "trick us I guess) has been 100% PROVEN to weaken our HEARTS...it makes them "mushy"...thus ready for a heart attack. >:(
That is why some soup co. have advertised NO MSG in our soup.
Nitrates as mentioned...cancer producing.....(YES THE BACON TOO....) Ya chose your poison carefully as mentioned WELL PUT. :D
Who are these scientists? The PCB and farmed fish thing received quite a bit of attention whereas beef has been put in a different spotlight (i.e. madcow). What concentrations of PCBs were they getting from these farmed salmon?
Little do you know you have likely been living on the edge with your eating habits if you are now concerned about MSG now....lol.
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Heart attacks...clogged arteries....cancers.....Type 1 & 2 diabetics....
We have to start to take our head out of the sand.
I'm gong to eat my celery everyday (lowers blood pressure)...steamed chicken...whole wheat spagetti...Paul Newman spagetti sauce...apple (spartan)...raw garlic....extra lean hamburger....curry prevent altimers (sp?)....salids/carrots ..vegs etc.....
Do have 2 glasses of milk & low fat cheese 2x wk.... 1-2 bottles of red wine (bad for the liver I guess...red wine good for other things though)...Ya can take MILK THISTLE caps daily ....does not cost alot...buy at any vitamin section...even in Safeway vitamin area.... MILK THISTLE is 100% proven to aid ones liver !!! In Germany if a person eats a poision mushrm by mistake ,,,the emergency staff give the person MILK THISTLE immeadiately.
Have to admit I buy a 7-11 hot dog sometimes....bring it home & stick on tons of yellow mustard raw white onions...becel margerine.....green lettece...low fat mayo ...low fat cheese slice......& show down...CHOW DOWN. ;D
BEFORE I EAT IT ... tell my body THIS IS A TEST....
But another good product is bran ceral (4 tablespoons with milk) ...Kelloggs ...the bran will absord alot of the toxic stuff from the body.....................& lots of water..............(even take a cupful direct from the Fraser R .............."JUST JOKING") ;D
Follow the above & NO FARM SALMON NO MSG NO PCBS NO SUGAR...NO BAD FATS......ETC...EXERCISE REST...(LISTEN TO Elvis songs or as Hulk Hogan said eat your vitamins & say your prayers.....YES YA WILL LIVE TO 100 YRS OLD !!!!!!!
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My aunt used to believe every single so called research that showed up on news media. Now a days that have changed. She has read so many of them and starting to realize many have conflicting results.
Like my 92 yrs old grandmother said. Too much of anything is bad. A balanced meal, a routine exercise and keeping a positive and happy attitude is the key to healthy life. The so called scientific research is only as reliable as it's sample size and the parameter set out by the researcher.
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The 7-11 hoagie was scary. :o
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Yes it is SCARY ....to eat that "dog" ..........sometimes a person is led by EMOTION instead of INTELLECT.... :D :D :D
ps ya can eat 4 fried eggs or more daily ...but just use the white (not the yellows..too fat)
Also a Green frying pan ...has a good non stick coating that will not go into the food.
The older non stick fry pans coatings ...leach into the food ...........something like the bad plastic water bottles etc...
The list just gets LLLLLLLLOOOOOONNNNNGGGGEERR "longer".