Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Damien on November 12, 2010, 12:42:13 PM
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So I was out fishing a lower mainland river yesterday.
Only two other sets of people fishing the same stretch as me, braving the cold and wet.
One guy snagging (Dad) with his son (float fishing with a snoopy rod). I was about 30 yards up river from him. We were fishing a stretch that was no wider than about 20 feet, he has about a 1oz croc on it, casting and reeling VERY quickly as if to hide what he is doing.
Any time I would face up river, away from him, he would begin to add yanks to his fast retrieve, he would cast out and do his thing watching me the whole time, not paying any attention to his retrieve. When I would turn my head to face him downstream, he would go back to his ultra fast retrieve technique.
Sure enough he hooked a coho, and disappeared on the other side of a bush where his some came down and grabbed the fish and bagged it. So to the guy in beautiful blue Chevy Aveo license plate (XXX XXX) way to go, bonking a coloured up coho and teaching your son how to be a douchebag on Remembrance Day. Well done indeed.
At any rate I decide to do a walk (grab the guy's vehicle details) and just a couple yards further down river, there is a guy fishing three rods. Alone.
The thought crossed my mind, why doesn't the MOE or whatever, allow some residents to take a course, give them a badge/credentials and a CO-like jacket to dish out tickets like a meter maid?
The real CO's can focus on the 'big' offenders, and allow the people to help police the lazy, ignorant, selfish 'recreational' cheaters.
I think a big impact could be made with just a dozen or so volunteers around the Fraser Valley putting in a few hours a week. Perhaps allow them to have a free license as payment? Or perhaps tackle shops offer these guys a break on gear? That way the public and the private are forming a bit of a partnership and 'cost sharing'. Sheesh, the fines could go into paying these people's expenses for mileage etc via a small stipend.
Heck, even hire a few "Commissionaire" type of retired folk to meander around and hand out citations for violations. My Dad would be the first guy to sign up.
Sorry for the rant, just getting sick of seeing this. Especially on such a small, fragile system.
(side bar, I shuffled over the pool he was trying to snag in for over an hour, I landed a semi-bright coho on my first cast, with an unweighted colorado, sent him back on his journey, and went home. Thankfully he didn't have any open wounds on him)
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How do you fish three rods on a river? ??? I could see it happening on a lake but on a river? ???
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Do a back ground check on some want to be volunteers, give them enough training to focus on the snagging/ identification issue and let them put some people to justice while there out fishing. They are volunteering there time, your not paying them 100 grand a year, if they are willing to put there time towards it why not?
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Problem is someone might fight back and the volunteer CO gets hurt really bad then what?????
Good idea but not easy to implement.
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Three rods sitting in the current with bait and/or spin glows etc.
Not hard.
Thats what I'm saying BigFisher. It seems like a simple thing to introduce, the fines issued would pay their expenses and then some. Even just to send them out to do the simplest retention checks, snagging checks, gear checks and bait ban enforcement, licence checks etc. Seems like a good idea.
The only thing I could see being an issue is a possible safety threat.
"Can I please check your license Mr. Fisherman", says the CO.
"Go fly a kite", says Mr Fisherman.
And it escallates from there.
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That can happen to any CO at any time though. Not just the "volunteers". It can happen to any meter maid at any given time as well.
Its all about training and learning how to issue the tickets in a proper fashion. Service with a smile, like the meter maid reality show on TV. Gotta have thick skin, thats for sure.
That being said, I think this would be a great deterant to offenders just knowing that there are more ticket giving COs out there.
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Here's a though... Instead of standing there and doing absolutely nothing, why don't you be a man and walk down there and in a friendly way call him out on it instead of whining about it on the internet... ::)
You think writing his plate number is going to result in anything happening.... seriously....man up...
Most people don't like being called out as it can be embarrassing and clearly he was worried about how you might act as he tried to hide it but again you did nothing but whine about it later about it being someone else job.... Good job ::)
And you don't have to get physical. I suggest being friendly at first and joke around, like dude, your trying to snag the fish, come on you don't need to do that. Offer some wisdom and maybe tips oh how to fish more effectively. Don't come off like some authority as people have a natural reaction to resist. Be friendly!!!!
And If your worried about the guy being aggressive, well maybe it might be a wise idea to start carrying bear/pepper spray as you can use it in self defense.
You have every right to free speech....
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I REALLY like the idea.
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--There are River Watch programs... similar to wilderness watch programs... I think Nova Scotia uses river watch as they have dry fly only and catch and release for many Atlantic salmon streams (where Atlantic salmon should be).
--The river watch programs have insurance similar to search and rescue... The big thing is a River Watch Badge so anyone that sees the badge knows they are at least going to be reported. The other thing is safety in numbers... it is more likely that there will be more than one riverwatch person around so you don't have to go by yourself to an uncomfortable situation.
--I've been working on a river fishing project... the area is closed to fishing... we have a collection permit... I am surprised and disappointed that in several weeks only one person... an MOE employee on a walk actually asked if I was part of the program and had a permit to fish.. I thought we would have to put an advert in the paper to keep what I thought would be a flood of calls to the tipp line about illegal fishing
...also and I can see how it would happen as people see us fishing (don't check the regs) and come out to fish
...I have told three people they cannot fish and showed them the regs and our permit...
... The one guy who was very apologetic..but I really didn't buy his story as he had a lure with treble hook and even if the area was open it is single barbless.
--The thing is with a river watch program I could have at least recorded the guys name with the treble hook and indicated that I have explained the rules to him... thus if he got stopped fishing later... his I didn't know story wouldn't hold water.. also would be a guy that CO might want to check his gear next time he is seen fishing.
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Something has to be done. Citizen Co's...whatever...something...
I still don't understand why the RCMP does not take a role in easy to get to spots along the Fraser, Capilano, Allouette etc...Simple things like fishing with barbed hooks, treble hooks, intentional snagging etc...are easily spotted.
Since I fish solo most of the time I do not confront anyone. I did in previous years and never will again after an almost ugly incident (and I was more then friendly). I also have a wife and child now and tend to think twice or 3 times before an action.
I make phone calls but have LOW expectations when I do.
I do believe there is a solution to all this illegal fishing and maybe citizen CO's are part of it.
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Doja, the last time I said something (at the Seymor River), my car was vandalized. So don't tell me to man up or call me a whiner or tell me that I "did absolutely nothing".
It is my job to observe, record and report. Which I did, here;
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm
Anyhow, back on track to the broader scope of the issue. Lots of good discussion around this thought/idea , which was the purpose of the thread.
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Doja, the last time I said something (at the Seymor River), my car was vandalized. So don't tell me to man up or call me a whiner or tell me that I "did absolutely nothing", you belittling prick.
It is my job to observe, record and report. Which I did, here;
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm
Anyhow, back on track to the broader scope of the issue. Lots of good discussion around this thought/idea , which was the purpose of the thread.
You are absolutely correct in what you did. Taking it any further is just dumb as you never know who or what you are dealing with.
Good job!
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--Even ministry staff are told if confrontation is expected or initiated that they involve the RCMP.
--I think it is just commons sense to not put yourself in harms way over a barbless hook. I do think it is important to Observe and report plus if you are sure it is safe to do so to inform people of the regulations... I find actually showing them the regs rather than expecting them to believe you works the best....
---you've often heard the term ... known to police used.... they are the best trained and equipped to deal with these situations... our reports although many will not be acted upon immediately do count when someone is caught and also points them in the right direction when things go wrong.
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Who's going to pay lliability if the volunteers get injured ?
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"On a positive note, I was fishing the squamish region yesterday and witnessed an infraction. I called the report phone line (on your fishing license) and waited at the scene. Within an hour a CO met me in the woods nearby, witnessed the act from a distance, and then proceeded to confront the culprit and ticketed him promptly. I was very thankful I had cell reception in the area. The CO was very polite and very quick, nice to see."
I posted this in another thread. I don't know what it's like calling the CO's in the lower mainland systems, but this was my experience in the Squamish system yesterday. I told the CO the location over the phone and he arrived on scene shortly to ticket an offender. I won't post the details of the offence as it divulges unique information but I can say I was impressed with the CO's results. Does anyone have any similar experiences on the fraser tribs or are there simply too many people fishing the lower mainland systems to get an immediate response?
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Who's going to pay lliability if the volunteers get injured ?
Many many cities, towns and municipalities have citizen patrols, or have organizations like the Commissionaires manage the ticket giving for numerous offenses, and also just to be eyes on the 'street'.
Perhaps if there are a volunteers just simply documenting, or reporting incidents then relaying that information to the COs. This creates a 'verfied' complaint and would perhaps produce a quicker response from the COs, as the COs would know that it is an issue that needs attention.
If not being 'ticket issuing' people, these 'patrol' persons could act from a strictly information offering perspective. If someone is fishing outside of regs (hook type, time, closure, species, bait, fly fish only etc) the patrol person (with some sort of badge or creditional, logo'd jacket etc) could simply inform the offender of the violation. Show them the regs, or explain/show them how to change a hook, fish more selectively, not snag, show them the flyfish/no fishing areas on maps etc.
If the patrol person sees what they deem a serious violation they can observe and report to a CO from a distance.
I agree, if we all do the education piece on the water, it might work. But when you get 10,20,30 people fishing a stretch of water, all snagging its hard to "educate".
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Something has to be done. Citizen Co's...whatever...something...
I still don't understand why the RCMP does not take a role in easy to get to spots along the Fraser, Capilano, Allouette etc...Simple things like fishing with barbed hooks, treble hooks, intentional snagging etc...are easily spotted.
Since I fish solo most of the time I do not confront anyone. I did in previous years and never will again after an almost ugly incident (and I was more then friendly). I also have a wife and child now and tend to think twice or 3 times before an action.
I make phone calls but have LOW expectations when I do.
I do believe there is a solution to all this illegal fishing and maybe citizen CO's are part of it.
Keep calling it in. Two notorious poachers were busted a few weeks ago because of someone like you calling them in.
That being said, anyone with half a brain knew what was coming this fall. Where do you think these people came from?
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Doja, the last time I said something (at the Seymor River), my car was vandalized. So don't tell me to man up or call me a whiner or tell me that I "did absolutely nothing".
It is my job to observe, record and report. Which I did, here;
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/rapp/form.htm
Anyhow, back on track to the broader scope of the issue. Lots of good discussion around this thought/idea , which was the purpose of the thread.
Good on ya Damien.
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Having a CO respond in a timely manner would be the best thing. A petition to the government about the lack of enforcement and COs is in order.
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http://www.vernon.ca/public_safety/riverlakewatch.html
--something like this as a minimum...if you read the information it is to provide consistent and useable information
-- http://www.riverwatchns.ca/
-- http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/programs/wildernesswatch/index.html
--these are just examples of potential programs..
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believe it or not, there's no such thing as a cost free volunteer program because somewhere down the line, things like supplies, paper work, and administrative duties have to be provided... insurance for liability is also an essential that can't be pro bono'd... that's the reason why the RAPP program was established to include the public in the informative policing of our rivers.
i suppose a committee or volunteer group can be formed to create a block watch, but regardless, it will still fall under the jurisdiction of the RAPP program.
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Good idea, but just think if you got some ornery old man out there. He'd be writing you up if you tied the wrong knot for crying out loud ;D ;D
A guy like Mr.Gadsden would be a good citizen CO, being that he lives and breathes for the River {Vedder}. Just don't get caught with a Leaf Drennan or he'll throw the book at you, and confiscate it. ;D
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I have no problem informing people of the better way to fish, but I do this in a very creative way, I don't preach, tell, or impose myself on them but merely start talking about fishing and inject it into the conversation for example, Ya fishing is real good, these colarado's are just nailing the coho, real clean too. People are naturally drawn to what works well but will also naturally resit being told what to do and along those lines.
And yes you did nothing. You could have walked down there and fished right beside him which would have prevented that coho you seem so concerned about from being snagged and retained. You didn't even have to say anything, just create pressure, and with the info you provided it would have worked. You could just even sit down in their area and have a snack, lunch, or just take a break and check out this new piece of water all the while keeping an eye on this angler.
This works great as you are not coming off as an authority figure (preaching, telling, imposing) and gives a great opportunity to make friends with him threw conversation in which you can then take the opportunity to "inject" some helpful tips on how to catch nice clean coho as it seems to be working good for you the last few days. You can also use this opportunity to analyze what kind of a person he is and how he may treat you.
Why didn't you just walk down when you suspected what was clearly going on? Heck, you could have shown him how easy it was to catch a fish as you quickly caught one....
The ones you have to worry about are the ones who don't care what you see in which you watch your words ( I suspect you learned this the hard way, lol).
And FYI, community patrols are nothing more than you and I walking around so don't expect much more from them than what you gave that day....
And rodney said it best, peer pressure is the next best thing to enforcement, and he's right as I've seen it work on some people, not all, but some. The more I think about it I'd think it is safe to say the peer pressure is in some cases more effective than enforcement as enforcement is severely limited.
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I still don't understand why the RCMP does not take a role in easy to get to spots along the Fraser, Capilano, Allouette etc...Simple things like fishing with barbed hooks, treble hooks, intentional snagging etc...are easily spotted.
Yeah no kidding, its not like they have anything to do anyways ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Excellent idea, Damien.
I would be the first in line to volunteer my time.
But I would require a certain degree of 'autonomy' to deal with a situation at hand, if you know what I mean. ;)
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i like the idea of river watch programs and would love to see something on the vedder, anything would be an improvement. I don't think liability would be an issue since the DFO would not be part of it, just citizens with an inside channel to reporting infractions.
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oh, and another thing; back in the day on the vedder, you would see DFO officers on a regular basis. Now, you see them once a season. When you compare the number of guys fishing the vedder before with now - it is no comparison. Where is the money going??? Why can't the DFO have more people patroling the river? Even the guys that do the fish counts and checking for tags, they could be assigned extra duty and dont need to be officers.
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oh, and another thing; back in the day on the vedder, you would see DFO officers on a regular basis. Now, you see them once a season. When you compare the number of guys fishing the vedder before with now - it is no comparison. Where is the money going??? Why can't the DFO have more people patroling the river? Even the guys that do the fish counts and checking for tags, they could be assigned extra duty and dont need to be officers.
It's budget cuts:
1. Retiring fisheries officers aren't being replaced
2. No money for weekend and evening overtime
3. No funding for seasonal fisheries officers anymore (Fisheries Guardians)
That's what the fish cop I spoke to this summer said.
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i like the idea of river watch programs and would love to see something on the vedder, anything would be an improvement. I don't think liability would be an issue since the DFO would not be part of it, just citizens with an inside channel to reporting infractions.
River Watch is an excellent model.....I don't see any barriers to doing it since there are similar organizations across North America. Just needs a champion to start the ball rolling.
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I'm a busy guy, but I would absolutely make time to volunteer for, and donate to, a river watch initiative.