Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: doja on October 24, 2010, 05:39:13 PM
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Quotas are not cumulative: you cannot take
a quota from each region that you fish. A
good rule of thumb is this: never have in
your possession while at or near any lake or
stream, more fish than the allowable quota
for that lake or stream. Check the Regional
Regulations and Tables for daily catch
quotas for B.C. sport fish.
If this is not to be done why is it not a law as many people could easily walk into this with no improper intent (entrapment?). I know many people that like to river/lake hop in a day. Example base camp 1 lake and fish others. The base camp where I do fish has tight regulations so this is news to me. Time to start hiding my fish I guess instead of rolling the dice. ::)
So I wonder.... If I have a steelhead (marked/writing down) from another river and then go to fish the vedder, even thought legal and fully within the law it is advised not to be done???
In addition every tackle shop that has said this is fine is ill advising there customers. Many have said this to me...
jetboatjim said take a picture, BUT, if the officer doesn't know/recognize the area he may dismiss it and write the ticket in which you will need a expert witness to back-up your story and still have to take a day off from work and fight it. And with photo shop, and phones that are now mini computer how valid is a picture???
I now ask... What is your opinion on this??? and would you heed this?
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Cumulative Quotas = non applicable as only 1 region would have been fished, Region 2, so IMO no laws were to be broken as I would have been within the daily quotas of each river fished.
As far as salmon regulations are concerned, they are not in the Synopsis,you have to go to the DFO website. There , you will find nothing that says you cannot retain your daily quota of salmon from more than one river a day,albeit as long as you are within your daily possession limit and within the same region. More than 1 region would be cumulative quotas.
The " a good rule of thumb" part in the synopsis is not the law. It basically tells you that if you plan on retaining fish from 2 different places in the same day, go home first and avoid the possibility of having to explain yourself and your angling efforts of that day to a CO or DFO officer.
This is my take on it anyway
p.s. this Header for your topic "To everyone in regards to fish from different rivers and lakes" might have been better, no names were needed , not that I care, but some might object, just so you are aware.
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Okay, I just got off the phone with the DFO offficer, and he had to check first, but after all was said and done, he said that an angler { while retention is permitted} can retain his/ her daily quota from numerous flows in the same day as long as he/she doesn't go over their daily possession limit { in this case the daily possession limit for salmon in more than one river is 4 chum, but if I was only at 1 river then this would have been illegal as the quota would be 4 combined salmon species, IE: 2 chinnook , 1 coho, 1 chum. I specifically told him I caught 2 chum from the Stave and 2 chum from the Nicomen Slough, both in region 2, so my quotas are not cumulative. He said I did not break any laws at all.
Just on a side note,for you out there that think this was greed or something, my total salmon retention to date{including yesterdays chum} for 2010 is a whopping 7 fish.
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Cumulative Quotas = non applicable as only 1 region would have been fished, Region 2, so IMO no laws were to be broken as I would have been within the daily quotas of each river fished.
As far as salmon regulations are concerned, they are not in the Synopsis,you have to go to the DFO website. There , you will find nothing that says you cannot retain your daily quota of salmon from more than one river a day,albeit as long as you are within your daily possession limit and within the same region. More than 1 region would be cumulative quotas.
The " a good rule of thumb" part in the synopsis is not the law. It basically tells you that if you plan on retaining fish from 2 different places in the same day, go home first and avoid the possibility of having to explain yourself and your angling efforts of that day to a CO or DFO officer.
This is my take on it anyway
p.s. this Header for your topic "To everyone in regards to fish from different rivers and lakes" might have been better, no names were needed , not that I care, but some might object, just so you are aware.
So Incorrect.
This is from the supplement.
"This information is intended as a supplement (in-addition) to the B.C. Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis. Only freshwater (non-tidal) salmon species information is available here. For all other Region-based information, including other freshwater species, bait bans, gear restrictions, detailed maps, etc., please consult the Synopsis. It is your responsibility to know the regulations."
Salmon regulations are in the supplement BUT the fresh water regulations also apply. for example, bait bans are in the freshwater book. Not DFO tidal book.
The only exception I found in the freshwater book is handling your catch. It is different for salmon vs freshwater fish.All else applies. Take a look....
And FYI, DFO has advised me that I may do something although it is illegal, technically. The officer may feels different depending on the area and history of the area. FYI. In this case you are legal but the officer depending on how he feels may think other wise. And people have been known to take more than their legal limit off the stave.
AND not trying to single you out in a negative way. Just try to let you know the rules/good advice so you don't get burned and you DID ask a specific question that I was not able to respond to in that thread.
Just trying to help ::) :-\ As this has also raised some concerns with me and a couple areas I lake fish.
PS I also didn't say any thing about greed. ::) ???
Oh and it is MOE that controls freshwater, NOT DFO I believe.
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I'm just curious.
TOTALY HYPOTHETICAL (there are a number of streams vs tidal that differ)
If I fish a tidal portion of a river (below a bridge) where the max possesion is 4 and then you walk up to the freshwater portion (100 metres above the bridge) where the limit is let's say 2.
Or visa versa
(and having both tidal and freshwater licenses)
How would YOU go about dealing with that?
Personally I kill very few and my kill rate is less than 7 this year though I've had a lot of fun so I doubt I'd have to explain anything.
But If I did.......................
Not looking for loop holes but many others seem to be.
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I'm just curious.
TOTALY HYPOTHETICAL (there are a number of streams vs tidal that differ)
If I fish a tidal portion of a river (below a bridge) where the max possesion is 4 and then you walk up to the freshwater portion (100 metres above the bridge) where the limit is let's say 2.
Or visa versa
(and having both tidal and freshwater licenses)
How would YOU go about dealing with that?
Personally I kill very few and my kill rate is less than 7 this year though I've had a lot of fun so I doubt I'd have to explain anything.
But If I did.......................
Not looking for loop holes but many others seem to be.
I'd avoid the situation as best I could and when dealing with the CO I'll be as nice as possible. No attitude.
You may be within the law but if it appears you are not he may very well write a ticket and then you have to prove it in court.
It depends on the area, time, and overall how he see you as. Its a very grey area and I think that is why they said the "good rule of thumb" thing.
As said a picture may very well help.
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So Incorrect.
This is from the supplement.
"This information is intended as a supplement (in-addition) to the B.C. Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis. Only freshwater (non-tidal) salmon species information is available here. For all other Region-based information, including other freshwater species, bait bans, gear restrictions, detailed maps, etc., please consult the Synopsis. It is your responsibility to know the regulations."
Salmon regulations are in the supplement BUT the fresh water regulations also apply. for example, bait bans are in the freshwater book. Not DFO tidal book.
The only exception I found in the freshwater book is handling your catch. It is different for salmon vs freshwater fish.All else applies. Take a look....
And FYI, DFO has advised me that I may do something although it is illegal, technically. The officer may feels different depending on the area and history of the area. FYI. In this case you are legal but the officer depending on how he feels may think other wise.
AND not trying to single you out in a negative way. Just try to let you know the rules so you don't get burned and you DID ask a specific question that I was not able to respond to in that thread.
Just trying to help ::) :-\
PS I also didn't say any thing about greed. ::) ???
Oh and it is MOE that controls freshwater, NOT DFO I believe.
Besides all that, you will still find nothing that says you cannot retain your daily quota of salmon from more than one river a day,albeit as long as you are within your daily possession limit and within the same region. More than 1 region would be cumulative quotas.
I didn't think you were trying to single me out doja, I was just saying, some others might object if you were to do this again with someone else name, that's all, no worries man, and I was just pointing the greed thing out for everybody too see I'm not taking a great abundance of our resources.
"Quote from doja",
"In this case you are legal but the officer depending on how he feels may think other wise."
I don't care if he peed the bed, the law is the law, and I was fully within it when retaining the fish yesterday. Of course your going to run into the odd fella who thinks otherwise. As long as your legal, what else is there to be worried about ??
The fish are in brine awaiting the smoker, no laws were broke and I'm happy, I have nothing more to worry about.
Again, DFO, who after all, are the ones writing the tickets, told me I was legal, so everything else people have to say is absolutely redundant, and although we might hear something we don't know about this topic, and could possibly be educating to others, is still meaningless in the end, when it comes to the law in question.
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"Quote from doja",
"In this case you are legal but the officer depending on how he feels may think other wise."
I don't care if he peed the bed, the law is the law, and I was fully within it when retaining the fish yesterday. Of course your going to run into the odd fella who thinks otherwise. As long as your legal, what else is there to be worried about ??
The fish are in brine awaiting the smoker, no laws were broke and I'm happy, I have nothing more to worry about.
I fully agree, But I have also meet some officers who will give you trouble. And going to court is a pain in addition he may seize the fish too. :o >:(
Most are probably great people but I've heard story's too in regards to CO's.
For the recorded I'll still do it too. I'll just be a little more careful in some situations as I keep forgetting you are guilty until proven innocent. :-\
I've gone to court to prove my innocents at a great cost.... won but with less $$$ in mu pocket. >:(
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Again, DFO, who after all, are the ones writing the tickets, told me I was legal, so everything else people have to say is absolutely redundant, and although we might hear something we don't know about this topic, and could possibly be educating to others, is still meaningless in the end, when it comes to the law in question.
you might want to re-check that. I'm pretty sure an infraction on your freshwater licenses will most likely be done by a MOE officer.
Tidal = DFO officers
Freshwater = MOE officers.
After all you don't see DFO patrolling lakes in the interior.
And police can also ticket you too, in addition to park rangers, etc.
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you might want to re-check that. I'm pretty sure an infraction on your freshwater licenses will most likely be done by a MOE officer.
Tidal = DFO officers
Freshwater = MOE officers.
After all you don't see DFO patrolling lakes in the interior.
And police can also ticket you too, in addition to park rangers, etc.
Very true, however, I was still within the law, so I don't care who writes them. I must point out,even though it is legal to do at anytime, this was a one time deal for me. I only retained 4 chum yesterday because it was the last day. I will assume from now on that the chum fishery may close early, and take the 6 that I want for the smoker sooner. I will not be doing this kind of retention with any other species, again a one time deal. ;)
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Actually Doja when it comes to salmon it does not matter whether it is tidal or non tidal, DFO can write the ticket as well as a CO.
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Actually Doja when it comes to salmon it does not matter whether it is tidal or non tidal, DFO can write the ticket as well as a CO.
Correct, Never said he could not. I said it was unlikely that he will be dealing with DFO.
But do they patrol non-tidal waters besides the Fraser??? I doubt it.
If you are in Vancouver it is very unlikely to get ticked by a maple ridge RCMP officer.
AND the laws of that area apply. So the laws of Vancouver apply even though the rcmp might(unlikely) be writing the ticket. Not the laws of maple ridge.
He seems to think the tidal rules apply on freshwater, but that is not the case. there are a few exceptions to the freshwater rules but freshwater is freshwater and falls under that heading. Questions in regards to freshwater should be directed to freshwater officers and preferably local for a more accurate and informed response.
You don`t call Vancouver asking for bylaws when the area in question is in another city.
FYI, an officers miss advise is not their problem but yours. Which is why I say it is better to talk to local officers who know that particular flow and the problems/issues surrendering it to get the best possible advised from those who you will most likely be dealing with.
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He seems to think the tidal rules apply on freshwater, but that is not the case. there are a few exceptions to the freshwater rules but freshwater is freshwater and falls under that heading. Questions in regards to freshwater should be directed to freshwater officers and preferably local.
You don`t call Vancouver asking for bylaws when the area in question is in another city.
No I don't, I fully understand what areas, and where DFO and MOE officers patrol. I aslo know police are within the law to issue fines/tickets, as well as park rangers........... I called DFO because,
1= Could only get answering machines at MOE fish/wildlife branch
2= Could only get answering machines at DFO option #2 line
3 = Called the R.A.P.P line and got an answer to my question
Please don't assume I know nothing of these regulations and bylaws. I've been an avid, ethical sports fisherman/ hunter for almost 40 years. For your information, I did my homework on this, and preceded to retain fish , legally without your help, and have been doing so for decades, thank you. Jesus, all we need is another person who wants to tell everybody everything they read, give it a break would ya.
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1= Could only get answering machines at MOE fish/wildlife branch
2= Could only get answering machines at DFO option #2 line
3 = Called the R.A.P.P line and got an answer to my question
They do call back fairly quickly if you leave a message.... They always have for me???
And you did state that DFO will be issuing tickets which is very unlikely on fresh water flows. And you did state that salmon regulations are only found on the dfo fishing website which is not true as we are talking about freshwater fishing and the regulations fall under that and the suppliment.
Sorry if I interpreted your slightly inaccurate statements as being miss-informed.
I've only been fishing for 10 years and it was common knowledge that you can retain fish from different flows/lakes. BUT it appears that even while within the law you can easily be ticket and the freshwater regulations cation against being in that situation. I suspect with good reason even though it is not law.
Any how I'll let this rest.
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DFO at the Stave yesterday, writing tickets. The Stave River is regulated under the fresh water fishing regulations, so where was the CO's at. The assumption that certain officers from certain branches are the only ones that are going to be there giving you the ticket/ etc. is ludicrous. There everywhere, all of them when and where you least expect them. Their just one big happy family ;D ;D
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Am I the only one that's confused ? You have Freshwater Regulations Synopsis, supplements or Lord knows what else/
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And you did state that DFO will be issuing tickets which is very unlikely on fresh water flows. And you did state that salmon regulations are only found on the dfo fishing website which is not true as we are talking about freshwater fishing and the regulations fall under that and the suppliment.
I see DFO on fresh water flows far more then the CO's and I know for a fact that DFO issued more then 2000 tickets last year on the stave. The CO's are dealing with far more calls about problem bears and hunters then a guy poaching on the river.
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. And you did state that salmon regulations are only found on the dfo fishing website which is not true as we are talking about freshwater fishing and the regulations fall under that and the suppliment.
We were talking about fishing for chum in fresh water, which was obvious from the start doja. So to find the salmon fishing regs, {in fresh water ::) ::) you must go to either a DFO office or visit the web site {www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/recfish}where you will find the Freshwater Salmon Supplement. I don't see what was " So Incorrect" as you put it. It says this on page 4 of the Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis Your getting to big for your britches doja, quit now, while one foot is still on the ground. ::)
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We were talking about fishing for chum in fresh water, which was obvious from the start doja. So to find the salmon fishing regs, {in fresh water ::) ::) you must go to either a DFO office or visit the web site {www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/recfish}where you will find the Freshwater Salmon Supplement. I don't see what was " So Incorrect" as you put it. It says this on page 4 of the Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis Your getting to big for your britches doja, quit now, while one foot is still on the ground. ::)
Umm, on page 4 that you refernece it says;
"Please note that when fresh waters are
closed to fishing or have gear restrictions
outlined in this Synopsis, the regulations
apply to fishing for salmon as well as for
non-salmon species."
Ok, the suppliment;
"This information is intended as a supplement to the B.C. Freshwater Fishing Regulations Synopsis. Only freshwater (non-tidal) salmon species information is available here. For all other Region-based information, including other freshwater species, bait bans, gear restrictions, detailed maps, etc., please consult the Synopsis. It is your responsibility to know the regulations."
Therefor they both must be consulted. You stated that you do not check the freshwater regulations and only the salmon supplement.
Your own words to start; "As far as salmon regulations are concerned, they are not in the Synopsis,you have to go to the DFO website" That is an incorrect statement. Gear restrictions, boundrys, and closers are in the synopsis that regulate salmon as well as freshwater species. The supplement mainly pertains to what you may retain and specific salmon closers/regulations. It also includes handling of catch too.
Now, as far as DFO on the stave.... I may have put my foot in my mouth a bit there, although not entirely (I never said they don't, just unlikely)... Now being that fisheries has a boat launch that they regularly use there (stave) it only makes sense that DFO would use it and while there they will do some enforcement before heading out onto the Fraser.
I also never mentioned the stave in any post, just freshwater flows and lakes in which most will probably be done by CO's. I know a few local flows that have been paid a visit by them(CO's) recently.
You also said that DFO will be writing the tickets... not entirely correct... CO's will also in addition to park rangers, RCMP, and other officers of the law.
The note/cautioning in the freshwater regulations may be an issue to CO's but is less sensitive to DFO. Therefor a DFO advise may be different than that of a CO. Just saying.
I see DFO on fresh water flows far more then the CO's and I know for a fact that DFO issued more then 2000 tickets last year on the stave. The CO's are dealing with far more calls about problem bears and hunters then a guy poaching on the river.
May I ask what other rivers you have seen them on?
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Give it up would ya, your trying to act like your the gods gift to fishing regs or something. Your doing the same thing as you did in that post about"no fishing for chum/ no retention of chum" or what ever it was called. I think you stated there I won or some childish comment. for your information, this is not a contest to see who can sound like they know more than the next guy, sheesh ::) ::) ::). Quit trying to act like a $#@&%$# hero, your boring me and everyone else.
The regulations for salmon fishing in freshwater are not included in this Synopsis This is a quote from page 4 doja, and I never stated that I did not check the freshwater regulations,only the salmon supplement We weren't talking about gear restrictions, maps, bait bans yada, yada, yada so that too is B.S
I said DFO would be writing the ticket, because that's who I saw there, and they weren't in their boat doja, they were in their TRUCK parked beside the bridge. If you think I mean DFO is the only people writing tickets, give your head a shake.
I've seen DFO, ya DFO on lots of the lower mainland flows over the years, Your still wet behind the ears I guess, maybe in another 20 yrs you can B.S with the big boys, instead of acting like one for now.
The last thing i need if for someone to go through my posts, and dissect them for their imperfections, like your doing, your obviously not qualified to do so. :D I suggest you cool down on the know it all attitude, or your gonna be very lonely on here.
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People, go fishing.