Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

British Columbia Sport & Outdoor Lounge => Hunters' Cabin => Topic started by: IronNoggin on July 16, 2009, 03:50:02 PM

Title: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: IronNoggin on July 16, 2009, 03:50:02 PM
They're out: http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/leh/leh_hunt_codes

So am I. Now very much beginning to wonder who you have to bribe to get on the "Preferred List"? EIGHT years, SEVEN entries each year for NADA?? Even at odds as low as 2:1. WTF? Couple of the Old Boyz I know got moose tags again in a heavily prescribed area - third year straight. Something VERY much stinks the way this is run in this Backwards Country!  >:(

Good thing I agreed to head over to Alberta and start guiding early this year! Think I'll be spending the balance of the fall there, as they always seem to welcome me and my wallet back. As for BC, not one thin dime beyond what they've already scammed me for yet again!

Not Surprised, just CHOKED... Again... >:(
Nog
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: alwaysfishn on July 16, 2009, 07:26:13 PM
Sorry to hear about your luck... 

Maybe they know you do a lot of fishing and figure your freezer is full!   ;D

I got an antlerless mulie this year, my son got NIL. Last year we both got moose...

Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: younggun on July 16, 2009, 08:29:34 PM
pops was denied his moose, grizz, sheep, goat all in good odds area's he's 11 or 12 years running without getting a draw, his last one was a 3/4 curl in big bar way back when, he got the ram. My godfather picked up a doe draw and got denied on his moose. I didn't even apply this year, short on money and probably wont be able to do much hunting with it being my grade 12 year.  :-\
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: Shooter on July 17, 2009, 11:28:43 AM
hey nog i know how ya feel... same moose draw for the past eight years and nothing to show for it and yet another guy we hunt with puts in and has only missed once in eight... go figure!
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: IronNoggin on July 19, 2009, 01:25:17 PM
Compounding Factors for those who missed:

Groups such as PETA and the HS have been encouraging their misguided members to qualify for BC Hunter Card Numbers and enter as many draws in BC as possible. They then hold LEH Burning Parties wherein they celebrate the "saving" of the animals whose tags they have drawn. This is real, and it IS happening. What these fools miss is that the ProvGov considers those animals both expendable and a "commodity". Tags not filled are taken into account for consideration in the following year's draws, and when considering the allocations to Outfitters and FN's...

By: Judie Steeves
Kelowna Capital News
April 7, 2009
http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_.../42649132.html

B.C.’s resident hunters are losing out to non-residents in the way the provincial government is allocating Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) permits, and it’s going to get worse if hunters don’t stand up for their rights.

That’s the word from Al Springer, a director for both the Peachland Sportsman’s Association and the Okanagan Region of the B.C. Wildlife Federation.

He’s been involved for a number of years in discussions between hunters, guide-outfitters and the government on policy for allocation of hunting licenses.

He says the attitude of this government is that hunting should be a commercially-viable business, not just a sport that allows local hunters to fill their freezers with meat for their families while they enjoy the outdoors.

That means that trophy hunting by visitors to the province (who are only permitted to hunt here with a licensed guide/outfitter) is being favoured when allocation decisions are made.

And, that goes against the province’s allocation policy, says Springer.

“Hunting should be managed based on science and we should be following the policy,” he says. Yet, non-resident hunters took 14 of the moose harvested in this region in 2007, while residents harvested only 50, a split of 28 per cent for the non-resident trophy hunter, instead of the agreed-upon 15 per cent.

Since the LEH permits are given out by way of a draw, the odds of getting a moose tag are 20 to one, while the non-resident is just given one when he pays for it, slanting the harvest in favour of those with money and against those without.

“It’s not fair, and it runs contrary to what was agreed upon,” he says.

“We’ve asked for an increase in the number of LEHs this year. In many cases, these animals will just die on the highway and the meat wasted if we don’t have an opportunity to hunt them for meat to feed our families.”

Contrary to the provincial government’s policy of encouraging more hunting in B.C., such inequities have resulted in fewer people having the opportunity to hunt here, he says.

Because the government’s policy is that this is “use it or lose it,” Springer says it’s likely the allocation to local hunters will drop even further in future unless more LEHs are up for draw, because only a small percentage of those who get a draw actually harvest an animal.

On the other hand, non-residents using trained guides nearly always fill out their quota.

Guide/outfitters generally prefer the LEH system of managing game because it means there will be fewer hunters participating, and a better quality hunt for their clients, with less competition, he says.
...

All in all BC's LEH is THE running joke amongst the hunting fraternity in all of Western North America. IMHO, Rightfully So.  :'(

Nog
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: alwaysfishn on July 19, 2009, 07:45:11 PM
I'm certain that there are problems with the LEH system but I like the aspect of chance in the draw. I don't like the Alberta system where the longer you apply, the better your chance of success. It means you need to consistently apply in order to have any chance of success.

I think we have a lot of great GOS opportunities in BC (probably could have more) and the LEH draws are a bonus.

I'm not totally convinced that PETA is spending a lot of their dollars on LEH cards although it is possible.

Nog....  What system would you prefer in a perfect world?
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: Derp on July 19, 2009, 11:53:05 PM
my 2nd try at this LEH system and I got a doe draw up close in reg 3, sweet!!  ;D
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: IronNoggin on July 20, 2009, 11:58:32 AM
I'm not totally convinced that PETA is spending a lot of their dollars on LEH cards although it is possible.

This was confirmed by a couple of buddies directly involved in the sustainable management program worldwide. Members of CITES and more, they are in the front trenches with activists pretty well full time, and have a world of information regarding the activities of the "opposition". This one first came to light 2 years ago, and has apparently been expanded since. Not just BC, but several other jurisdictions as well.

Quote
Nog....  What system would you prefer in a perfect world?

The one you don't like - the Priority Draw System that is employed in Saskatchewan, Alberta, NWT, Yukon and nearly all Western States. Yes, it does mean that you have to enter each year, but most here do that anyway - applying over and over in BC's Lottery type of system with the distant hope that they will someday draw what they desire. Odds are kinda like getting hit by lightening for many species. With the priority draw system, you accumulate points each time you enter. Depending upon the subscription rate, you WILL eventually draw the tag. For lesser subscribed species this can be as fast as the first or second year, for more desirable tags, it can take up to 4 or 5 years, but you WILL eventually get the tag of choice. And, those who are successfully drawn go back to the bottom of the heap to start over again. I realize the system here is "said" to be addressing the latter, but personal observation suggests it is not. I have too many buddies that draw consistently year after year for heavily subscribed hunts, when according to their own specifications, this should not be occurring.

There IS a reason that so many of our neighboring jurisdictions have gone to priority draws. They Work well to both the benefit of management and the hunter. The system here is extremely archaic and cumbersome in comparison. But then again, what do you expect from the BC Provincial Government besides their overly feeble attempts to reinvent the wheel (not just LEH matters).

Cheers,
Nog
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: alwaysfishn on July 20, 2009, 02:04:56 PM
I think the Alberta system has some good points, but as with most things the grass sometimes looks greener on the other side of the fence.....

I copied the following paragraph from another well visited BC forum...

"What this all means is
that if we go to a priority system (like Alberta's), nearly half of our applicants can
expect to wait at least a decade, if not many times that, before they
will have any chance of being drawn. In a very few years, for many
hunts, the priority list will be so long that no new person taking up
hunting will have an opportunity to hunt prior to advanced age. Can you
imagine a teenager paying money annually to enter a system that might
provide them with a chance to hunt when they're 65 years old? Having
examined our odds situation, we believe that asking hunters to pay for
so many years before they have any chance of being drawn would be
fraudulent. Indeed, in the early 1980's, Montana scrapped their priority
system for elk because they found that nobody under a certain age would
draw a licence in their lifetime."

If we go to an Alberta system us old guys may never live long enough to actually win some of the higher odd hunts in BC.  :(
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: IronNoggin on July 20, 2009, 04:22:05 PM
...If we go to an Alberta system us old guys may never live long enough to actually win some of the higher odd hunts in BC.  :(

And if we stick with the current lottery style of system, MANY of us will never draw a tag as long as we live, and especially so for the higher subscribed tags.  :'(

And while the Alberta system does have a few problems associated, I can speak from personal experience that getting a tag there is EXPONENTIALLY easier than here in BC. In the past I have drawn elk, moose, mule deer, antelope and sheep tags in Alberta - nearly always within the first two or three years of entering. Sure as hell can't say that for BC!

Nog
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: aquapaloosa on August 10, 2009, 09:50:23 PM
I am very new at hunting and did not get any my draws this year.( my first draws entered)  It states in the application that if the information is not filled out correctly ie: All in capital letters and all the other instructions , that the entry could be rejected.  So i was very careful to follow every step.  Could they be tossing applications out for little mistakes.  I know that one of my draw entries was not all in capital letters.
Could it have gotten tossed? I keep hearing of people entering year after year and never getting anything, like nog.  Sure makes me wonder.
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: marmot on August 14, 2009, 04:36:07 PM
I got an okanagan antlerless whitetail tag this year.

You should have to eat a piece of whatever it is you're hunting for before being granted a tag....that would keep the peta poofs out of the loop :)

The thing about draws of any sort is that the selection of who wins is completely arbitrary.  There is no meaningful connection between who wins and what their needs are....so somebody that uses a moose a year (or that much meat) to help put food on the table has the same odds as some guy that can't even make it out for the draw date... to me that is not right.

If there are a number of draws that end up lapsing without being used, why not have confirmation dates that need to be affirmed by the draw winner close to the hunt date?  This way, you could have a "wait list" so if the date was not confirmed by the draw winner the draw would move to the next person, and so on until somebody could make it.....to me this *may* also mean that more local hunters get a crack at it since it is much more difficult to plan a hunt in short notice if you have to travel for it (and the closer you are, the easier it is)

just an idea, im sure it's critically flawed as most of mine are :)
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: alwaysfishn on August 14, 2009, 05:02:24 PM
I got an okanagan antlerless whitetail tag this year.

You should have to eat a piece of whatever it is you're hunting for before being granted a tag....that would keep the peta poofs out of the loop :)

The thing about draws of any sort is that the selection of who wins is completely arbitrary.  There is no meaningful connection between who wins and what their needs are....so somebody that uses a moose a year (or that much meat) to help put food on the table has the same odds as some guy that can't even make it out for the draw date... to me that is not right.

If there are a number of draws that end up lapsing without being used, why not have confirmation dates that need to be affirmed by the draw winner close to the hunt date?  This way, you could have a "wait list" so if the date was not confirmed by the draw winner the draw would move to the next person, and so on until somebody could make it.....to me this *may* also mean that more local hunters get a crack at it since it is much more difficult to plan a hunt in short notice if you have to travel for it (and the closer you are, the easier it is)

just an idea, im sure it's critically flawed as most of mine are :)


I think the bottom line is, the government wants to collect your license dollars in the most efficient way possible. They are not concerned about fairness. They are concerned about efficiency. To incorporate the things you want would make administering the whole process a lot more expensive..

As far as granting licenses based on needs, I have calculated that my wild meat costs me 3 or 4 times what Safeway charges. I'm afraid that the needy hunters out there probably have a hard time affording the hunt.
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: IronNoggin on August 14, 2009, 06:43:43 PM
just an idea, im sure it's critically flawed as most of mine are :)

No, yours is a GOOD idea. And I have heard many others that actually make sense. The problem is our provincial government and its' processes as relating to this particular matter is, to use your own words - critically flawed. Too bad it spills over into so many other arenas.  ::)

Cheers,
Nog
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: mikeH on August 26, 2009, 10:19:50 PM
I use to live in Edmonton been hunting for 17 yrs.This is my first yr in B.C put in for my LEH this yr and got ****all which I new would happen im new to the system.In Alberta putting in a draw every yr for moose and elk you get drawn every 4yrs for a tag.I know I'm going to be disappointed hunting out here stupid wife! j/k.The deer out in my area Chilliwack are small and sickly I miss the alfalfa fed Alberta deer.But I guess I have to adapt.

Posted by: alwaysfishn

I think the bottom line is, the government wants to collect your license dollars in the most efficient way possible. They are not concerned about fairness. They are concerned about efficiency. To incorporate the things you want would make administering the whole process a lot more expensive..

You can say that about ICBC,HST,Aircare. I call BC the gouge province.
Title: Re: 2009 LEH Results
Post by: johnk on September 05, 2009, 06:05:44 AM
They're out: http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/leh/leh_hunt_codes

So am I. Now very much beginning to wonder who you have to bribe to get on the "Preferred List"? EIGHT years, SEVEN entries each year for NADA?? Even at odds as low as 2:1. WTF? Couple of the Old Boyz I know got moose tags again in a heavily prescribed area - third year straight. Something VERY much stinks the way this is run in this Backwards Country!  >:(

Good thing I agreed to head over to Alberta and start guiding early this year! Think I'll be spending the balance of the fall there, as they always seem to welcome me and my wallet back. As for BC, not one thin dime beyond what they've already scammed me for yet again!

Not Surprised, just CHOKED... Again... >:(
Nog

Sooo Nog, what area of Alberta are you guiding in?