Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

British Columbia Sport & Outdoor Lounge => Sport Chat => Topic started by: chris gadsden on May 30, 2009, 07:08:12 PM

Title: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: chris gadsden on May 30, 2009, 07:08:12 PM
We are working on a deal to bring these three to TO for the start of the 09/10 season.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Fish Assassin on May 30, 2009, 08:11:09 PM
The Leafs been trying to get Stanley (and I don't mean Allan) to pay them a visit for over 40 years and how did it turn out ? ;D Imagine that, the Leafs are interested in the Canuck's sloppy seconds  ;D As Mojoman has pointed out, the sistas are soft. Remember ? :D
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: mojoman on May 31, 2009, 05:21:39 PM
The Leafs been trying to get Stanley (and I don't mean Allan) to pay them a visit for over 40 years and how did it turn out ? ;D Imagine that, the Leafs are interested in the Canuck's sloppy seconds  ;D As Mojoman has pointed out, the sistas are soft. Remember ? :D


eh!!!!...we don' want the sista's...and certainly not at 5 mill each!!!!



mojo knows Burke will prevail..;))
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: dspot on May 31, 2009, 07:12:18 PM
The Leafs been trying to get Stanley (and I don't mean Allan) to pay them a visit for over 40 years and how did it turn out ? ;D Imagine that, the Leafs are interested in the Canuck's sloppy seconds  ;D As Mojoman has pointed out, the sistas are soft. Remember ? :D


eh!!!!...we don' want the sista's...and certainly not at 5 mill each!!!!



mojo knows Burke will prevail..;))

The Sedins at 5M are a bargain.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: HARLEY on June 01, 2009, 07:46:37 AM
Please--Just let them go and then we can rebuild. There is going to lots out there to choose from.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: odesseus on June 01, 2009, 08:55:58 PM
I second that, let them go deep with the draft a la Detroit. Let's work on making the franchise consistant for the next 10 years.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: dspot on June 06, 2009, 01:07:06 AM
Please--Just let them go and then we can rebuild. There is going to lots out there to choose from.

Gaborik or Hossa are going to be expensive, and other than that there is not much.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Fish Assassin on June 06, 2009, 10:24:27 PM
Gaborik in my opinion is high risk. No question he is very talented when healthy. Unfortunately he is injury prone.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: PistolPete on June 07, 2009, 09:40:25 PM
You can have them!!!!!!!!! LET THE KIDS DOWN ON THE FARM PLAY..............
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sir Snag-A-Lot on June 08, 2009, 12:29:23 PM
In the current NHL you HAVE to spend your cap space.  Saving money does not benefit the hockey team in any way.  If we dump off the Sedins' salaries, who else will we spend the 10-12 mil on, and get two top six forwards who mesh perfectly together.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: HARLEY on June 08, 2009, 07:31:17 PM
Gaborik or Hossa are going to be expensive, and other than that there is not much.

I still would like to see them go away some where, any where. The team would be better off without them.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: A-BOATER on June 08, 2009, 08:26:37 PM
Chris  Ya I say let them go to Toronto & all the other Canucks for that matter..... replace the team with ALL BC BOYS.... no matter where they are at in the draft ...draft them.... trade for them.... then possibly the Vancouver Canucks would play with heart & grit for the entire 60 minutes...during league & play-offs...right up to winning the Stanley Cup !!!! ---- Have the Montreal Canadian team have 80% french player from Quebec ...& the rest whatever as long as they are born in Quebec.... Just a thought. (saying that I really liked the effort of the team this yr...as they really did try...) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extra: EVERY OWNER GM COACH SCOUT..... SHOULD WATCH 1000'S OF HRS FILM OF THE RED WINGS.... THE PLAYERS...STYLE OF PLAY...& THEN THEY CAN GO ABOUT & TRY TO BUILD A WINNING HOCKEY TEAM. ------------------ ONLY THING THEY WILL HAVE TO FACE THE RED WINGS ...MORE THAN LIKELY FOR THE CUP.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: scuntor on July 12, 2009, 09:43:09 PM
That's a lot of hate on for the Sedins. Come on they don't fall down nearly as much as they used to. I drink way less beer playing the drink when a "Sedin falls down game"
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 22, 2009, 12:22:17 PM
you would drink even less if it were "Drink evry time a sedin throws a big hit"
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 22, 2009, 02:19:38 PM
you would drink even less if it were "Drink evry time a sedin throws a big hit"

Yes because throwing big hits is the only way to win hockey games. Remind me again how many 'big hitters' Detroit and Pittsburgh had on their team.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: DionJL on July 23, 2009, 12:05:01 PM
you would drink even less if it were "Drink evry time a sedin throws a big hit"
And drink even less if it were "drink every time Luongo Scores". Finesse players don't need to throw hits, just as goalies don't need to score goals.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 25, 2009, 05:23:52 PM
I think getting in the corners, taking a hit once in a while to make the play and getting down and dirty would help their performannce come playoff time as they look like pansies in the playoffs. I agrre they can win games, they just cant win the ones that matter (playoff games)
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 25, 2009, 05:25:26 PM
oh and as for goalies, look how much turco does with the puck other than stopping it that benifits his team, for him its not always about the big save, its about how can i help my team win.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Hook Set on July 25, 2009, 06:01:42 PM
I think getting in the corners, taking a hit once in a while to make the play and getting down and dirty would help their performannce come playoff time as they look like pansies in the playoffs. I agrre they can win games, they just cant win the ones that matter (playoff games)

Sedins live in the corners so I don't think thats a problem. The way they move and move the puck makes them avoid a lot of the hits. I think the Sedins have showed they have gotten a lot tougher, you don't want your goal scorers to be taking a lot of abuse all the time anyways. As for Turco, he does move the puck well, but I'm fine with Luongo staying put in his crease and just stopping the pucks.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 26, 2009, 02:21:43 PM
I think getting in the corners, taking a hit once in a while to make the play and getting down and dirty would help their performannce come playoff time as they look like pansies in the playoffs. I agrre they can win games, they just cant win the ones that matter (playoff games)

Your right, a PPG clip in the playoffs is a total no show. It easy now to forget that we were a few minutes away from having a 3-1 series lead over Chicago. If anything let us down this year it was our complete inability to kill off a penalty when it matters. Ohlund and Edler looked like pylons out there.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 27, 2009, 12:23:47 PM
I agree I with Ohlaund being a pylon, I wont miss him, as for the sedins living in the corner, you can cycle the puck all you want but it needs to find the back of the net more often in my opinion to justify 13 million for both.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 27, 2009, 03:08:36 PM
I personally hate using a players point totals to judge a player, but if we must....


Player  Games  Points  Cap Hit(09/10)

D Sedin 82 82 6.1
H Sedin 82 82 6.1



Vanek 73 64 7.143
B Richards 56 48 7.8
Lecavalier 77 67 7.727
Gomez 77 56 7.357
Drury 81 56 7.05
Spezza 82 73 7.0
Heatley 82 72 7.5
Koptiar 82 66 6.8
Marleau 76 71 6.3
Smyth 77 59 6.250


Ten forwards who will have larger cap hits than the Sedins this year yet scored few points than them last year.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 27, 2009, 03:38:22 PM
those are regular season # and should be considered as warmup for the big games.  I am not saying i dont like the sedins, I think they are 2 of the most highly skilled players in the nhl, I would just like to see them develope a "do whatever it takes attitude"  I also think they could shoot the puck more often
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 27, 2009, 04:02:41 PM
the Sedins are the best SECOND line in the NHL!!  Until Vancouver has a proven goal scorer that requires a team to choose which line to check they wont go past the second round.  Yes, 82 points is a fairly productive year but could they put up those numbers without each other? what do you think would happen if one of them was injured for any length of time??  i would love to see vancouver make a serious run at heatley seems how they passed up on Gaborik.  they need someone to take the focus off the twins....
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 27, 2009, 04:27:57 PM
I couldn't agree more on heatley, I know he has a downside in terms of attitude and commitment but he's the type of plyer that would compliment the twins in that he has some drive to put the puck in the net as well as the ability, the twins we be more eficient as setup men as opposed to finishers.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 27, 2009, 04:45:33 PM
i think you missed the point a little bit... get heatley and put him on a seperate line to draw a teams checking line away from the twins.... guys like heatley, ovechkin, gaborik, etc., are one man shows and natural goal scorers which vancouver hasn't had since Bure left.  get someone in there that can put up 40 or 50 goals and let the sedins do what they do best, play with each other in the corner, put a couple in the net and be the best second line in the nhl!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: bbronswyk2000 on July 28, 2009, 08:01:27 AM
Heatley can stay in Ottawa as far as I am concerned. We dont need his crappy attitude.

BTW without a good regular season you dont make the playoffs so yes those numbers during the regular season have significance.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 28, 2009, 08:34:25 AM
i agree... but regular season numbers do not get you through the playoffs.  Just look at Boston and San Jose!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 28, 2009, 11:04:21 AM
More shots on goal? You do realize that Daniel Sedin was 12th in the league in shots on goal.

Try this on for size... Our top line last year (Sedin, Sedin, Burrows) registered 603 shots on goal. Please remember that Burrows got almost no PP time and only spent half the year getting top line even strength minutes.

Now lets compare this to the Thornton, Marleau, Setoguchi line which was widely considered the best line in the league last year registered 636 shots on goal. Thats a whopping 33 shot difference.

Best second line in the NHL? How do people come up with this crap. STOP READING THE CANUCKS.COM FORUMS!

How about since the lockout they are 16th and 17th in total scoring.

Marian Gaborik?? Ya lets sign the one of the biggest band aid boys of all time. Do you really think its wise to hamstring your team with a 7.5 mil cap hit for a guy who plays a full season once every four years? You want to talk about bad playoffs, how about the one point in six games the last time he was in the playoffs.

Dany Heatley on his own line? Do you even watch hockey? Healtey is completely useless without someone to feed him one timers. Its painful trying to watch that man carry the puck. He is the very definition of one trick pony, he just so happens to be very good at that one trick but it is completely unrealistic to expect him to carry a line. Most importantly, there is this little thing called a salary cap!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: silverslab on July 28, 2009, 12:06:26 PM
If we could get around the attitude, Henrik feeding the puck to heatley all season long sounds good!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 28, 2009, 04:58:55 PM
Best second line in the NHL? How do people come up with this crap. STOP READING THE CANUCKS.COM FORUMS!

hmmmmm.... Crosby, Ovechkin, Sedin.... no... ummmm...  Iginla, Lecavalier, sedin... nope... oh!  how about Zetterberg, Thornton, Sedin.......

SECOND LINE!!!!

p.s.  you watch hockey and you would take A sedin over heatley?!
       
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 28, 2009, 06:52:39 PM
So you list 6 superstar players and compare them to the Sedins. You do realize that there is a difference between a first line player and a superstar? They may not be elite players but they are still fully fledged first line players.

How many teams have two PPG forwards on their second line?

Better yet, how many teams had two PPG forwards on their team period. By my count there were Six. Vancouver, Washington, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Calgary and Philly.

I never said I would take a Sedin straight up over Heatley, but given our situation I think the Sedins give Vancouver a better chance at winning.

Quick question, which team is better.

Team A:

Top line of Sedin, Sedin, Scrub

Or

Team B:

Top line of Heatley, 4.7 million FA, scrub

Minus, Edleler, Kesler and a 1rst (Trade to get Heatley)
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 28, 2009, 07:01:25 PM
P.S. this offseason 4.7 wouldn't even get you a Brian Gionta. Think more Martin Erat, Tim Conolly type players.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 30, 2009, 12:49:25 PM
i still disagree...  a first line is supposed to be made up of a teams 'superstars'  otherwise you have a team built around second and third line players like the canucks!  why do you think the canucks can't do anything in the playoffs?  the swedish olympic team has them listed as the #4 and #5 forwards.... which means they would be on.... the second line!  Nobody buys canucks tickets solely to go and watch the sedins play but they did for Bure!  The West Coast Express was the last 'first line' that the canucks had and arguably the best shot at the cup the canucks have had since 94! 

Team B!!!

not sure where you come up with $4.7 million but none the less.... you dont have to look any further than your precious canucks to fill that void at almost half that price in Samuelsson $2.5 million!  how about Madden $2.75 or Cole for $2.9???  add in a Guerin or a Recchi and i would drfinitely take Team B over the Sedins!  BTW Gionta makes $5.0 million so no you couldn't get him at $4.7 but i'm sure Gillis could find an extra $300K if it was the difference between him coming or going!  or how about Havlat for $5.0??

i'm not arguing that the sedins can't put up points, a ppg is a good year for anyone!  what vancouver needs is a top line player(s) to take the opposing teams checking line away from the sedins!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: DionJL on July 30, 2009, 03:12:22 PM
PPG = Point Per Game.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 30, 2009, 03:44:59 PM
ahh... now his point makes sense.... i'm an idiot!!!  thanks for clearing that one up for me!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Sterling C on July 30, 2009, 07:11:00 PM
i still disagree...  a first line is supposed to be made up of a teams 'superstars'  otherwise you have a team built around second and third line players like the canucks!  why do you think the canucks can't do anything in the playoffs?  the swedish olympic team has them listed as the #4 and #5 forwards.... which means they would be on.... the second line!  Nobody buys canucks tickets solely to go and watch the sedins play but they did for Bure!  The West Coast Express was the last 'first line' that the canucks had and arguably the best shot at the cup the canucks have had since 94! 

Team B!!!

not sure where you come up with $4.7 million but none the less.... you dont have to look any further than your precious canucks to fill that void at almost half that price in Samuelsson $2.5 million!  how about Madden $2.75 or Cole for $2.9???  add in a Guerin or a Recchi and i would drfinitely take Team B over the Sedins!  BTW Gionta makes $5.0 million so no you couldn't get him at $4.7 but i'm sure Gillis could find an extra $300K if it was the difference between him coming or going!  or how about Havlat for $5.0??



What does being on the second line on the Swedish Olympic team have to do with this. You do realize that there are only 7 nations with legitimate teams. There are 30 in the NHL, where the talent level is much more distributed.

To give you perspective on how stupid your stupid arguement is consider that Canada's 'second line' in the Olympics this year is going to consist of players like Iginla, Nash, Thornton etc.


As for the 4.7 mil its pretty easy. The Sedins combined make 12.2 mil. Heatley makes 7.5. Subtract Heatley's cap from the Sedins and it give you 4.7 mil.

You would actually rather have one of Samuelson, Madden or Cole plus Heatley over the Sedins....WOW!

That would be one of the worst first lines in the league. Again Heatley is useless unless he has someone to feed him pucks. Instead of ranting about how Heatley would such a good fit go and watch a few Ottawa games first. You won't even notice Heatley for periods at a time until he roofs a onetimer from the hash marks. Then he'll be invisible for the rest of the game.

I specifically didn't mention Havlat or his 5 mil salary because of his injury problems. Your not going to help your team win games if you can't play. What good is a guy that before last season played 35, 56 and 18 games.

Again, you are also ignoring the assets we would have to give up in order to acquire Heatley. We're not going to be able to trade Demitra and a bag of pucks in order to get him.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on July 31, 2009, 12:08:16 PM
That would be one of the worst first lines in the league. Again Heatley is useless unless he has someone to feed him pucks. Instead of ranting about how Heatley would such a good fit go and watch a few Ottawa games first. You won't even notice Heatley for periods at a time until he roofs a onetimer from the hash marks. Then he'll be invisible for the rest of the game.

your right, how silly of me.... anyone that scores 40 or 50 goals is just terrible.  And i couldn't agree more, Madden and Cole don't know how to pass a puck i guess that is why they play in the NHL... you must think that Brett Hull was a terrible player too because all he did was shoot one timers from the slot.  You made your point, the sedins are a top line.  the canucks are better off with them on the team as their go to guys... score a point per game, finish 4th or 5th in the conference and go on to lose in the first or maybe they get lucky and lose in the second round of the playoffs again.  tell me, what happens when luongo refuses to sign with the canucks becuase he want's to play with a contender and not with a team that sticks with the same losers year after year?   i'll start cheering for the Canucks when they make an attempt to put a contender on the ice instead of resigning the same players that couldn't do it the year before.  until then i'll watch the pens go back to back!!!  perhaps i will try and get this thread back on topic a little bit...
Hey chris, how about this.... Luongo sings with TO next season to give Burke something to build a team around and Toronto wins the Stanley cup within five years!  Meanwhile, the sedins stay in Vancouver and fail to make the playoffs three out of the five years!
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: DionJL on August 05, 2009, 11:57:37 AM
Bandwagoners not welcome!

Signing established goalscorers is not how to build a contending team. They are expensive and can only do so much. You must build from the draft. To help mentor these young players you should have veterans that have played on the team for years and know the system. That's the only reason I was sad to see Ohlund leave. What would Heatley do for players like Hodgson and Raymond? Make them into whiney headcases?
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Shooter on August 06, 2009, 09:11:27 AM
Bandwagoners not welcome!

Signing established goalscorers is not how to build a contending team. They are expensive and can only do so much. You must build from the draft. To help mentor these young players you should have veterans that have played on the team for years and know the system. That's the only reason I was sad to see Ohlund leave. What would Heatley do for players like Hodgson and Raymond? Make them into whiney headcases?


i totally agree that teams are built from the draft and that signing goalscorers is not how to build a contender; you need a healthy mix of players.  i would never try and argue that Heatley is a guy you want to mould a team around but at the same time i would be willing to put up with him if he puts 40 goals in the net.  i dont think there is a canucks fan out there that follows hockey that truly believes that the canucks are cup contenders with the team they have right now?!  They got lucky last year, they can't rely on guys like Kesler and Burrows to have career years again.  As canucks fans what would you want the team to do to turn them into a cup contender?? 

BTW... i have never claimed to be a canucks fan so there is no wagon jumping going on here! 
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: DionJL on August 06, 2009, 10:53:49 AM
All a team needs to do is make the playoffs. From there anything can happen especially if you're goalie gets hot. I think the 'nucks have a team that could make the playoffs this season.
Title: Re: Sedins And Sundin
Post by: Jaws on August 20, 2009, 08:31:32 AM
I think the Sedin's play great during the regular season, yet when it comes to the playoffs the always seem to disappoint.