Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Little Hawk on April 08, 2009, 09:00:58 AM
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Howdy All,
I am pleased to announce to all of you that the Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society now has a bank account and a safe destination for funding donations for the important activities of our organization. As I've previously mentioned, the CWSAS is now an officially Incorporated (non-profit) Society here in BC with 5 sitting Directors: Terry Anderson (Victoria, BC), Roy Carver (Victoria, BC), Tom Gray (Fanny Bay, BC), Jerry Oetting (Victoria, BC), Mitch Anderson (Victoria, BC). Our Society # is: S-54917
Our Webmaster - Karen Jones - is busy setting up a Pay Pal link on the website but as she is very busy with work & family, this may take a few days. So for now, and because time is of the essence with the Provincial Election nearly upon us, I'm encouraging each and every one of you join me as we take up the charge and drum up as much funding as we can from all the good people who can help fuel this vital cause. Feel free to forward this message to others you may know who may have a vested interest in the welfare of Pacific Salmon and who may be in a position to contribute. Since I've began this fund-raising effort my heart has been warmed more than once by emails from concerned people wanting to help; like the single-mom on a limited income who's offered $100.00 towards the cause. The strength of CWSAS is built on the backs of good people like her.
Initially, our objective is to raise as much advertising revenue as we can to get our message out to the BC Electorate about Campbell's complicity in the salmon-farming industry as well as his selling-out of (giving away) BC's fish-bearing rivers & streams. The AD material we have ready for publication should accomplish this in spades.
Please do not hesitate to contact me for donation information or if you have any questions.
(Terry Anderson: 250 818-6494 or by email: silversaw@telus.net)
I have set a goal of 2-weeks or less to raise a minimum of $25 to $30,000.00 for advertising expenses with any remaining funds to be secured for future Society initiatives furthering the cause and welfare of Wild Pacific Salmon. I'll be hitting the bricks here on the South Island (Victoria area) to drum up commercial support from tackle-shops and manufacturers as well as Charter-boat operators, Boat sales/service centers etc. If you think about it for a minute, the list of people/companies/organizations that have a vested interest in the welfare of Pacific Salmon - is as long as your arm.
Ladies & Gentlemen; the Game is ON!
Please help if you can.
Standing for Wild Salmon,
Terry Anderson
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Hello Little Hawk. I am wondering if your alliance is looking for donations purely for advertisement, or are you going to make an effort to enhance the environment that would be in your question. Will you be willing to back up what you will be saying with peer reviewed studies. I would like to see a down to earth environmental group back in B.C. A group that does not benifit from millions of funded U.S. dallors that are put to advertising and does not seem to benefit the environmemt or our coastal communities at all. You will have my donations if your alliance can prove to me that you are not just another advertisement gimmick. Just a clip from a news article I found.
"What is indisputably true is that the environmental movement on Canada's West Coast is relying increasingly on U.S. environmental benefactors, and by focusing on the Americans, some Canadian greens appear to have lost their way. They have forsaken the grassroots Canadian public, the local people who work and live on the coast. "These buckets of U.S. money account for much of what we call environmental activism today," says Terry Glavin, the Mayne Island author who has also worked as a consultant to the David Suzuki Foundation and other environmental organizations.
Corporations need not pay tribute to pushy non-profits. It need not partner with them either, unless the group or groups in question is/are involved in projects that directly benefit a threatened or endangered species. For example, Darden funds the Kemp's Ridley Turtle conservation efforts at Mexico's Rancho Nuevo and lobster habitat in New England and the Caribbean. Those funds benefit the animals, not animal activists.
Sustainable conservation includes use and preservation. It comes from a willingness of those entities dependant on a resource recognizing the merit of acting ethically with the resource. It does not come from bullying non-profits demanding certain behavior lest they crush the perceived offender".
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Hello Little Hawk. I am wondering if your alliance is looking for donations purely for advertisement, or are you going to make an effort to enhance the environment that would be in your question.
I am guessing they need advertising dollars to secure MORE dollars in order to effectively enhance the environment and raise public awareness...? It's not "either or" it's "in order to". As far as funding goes, where else is money going to come from? How about the fish farms kick in a few bucks for the funding of joint studies on the effects of pacific sea lice on wild salmon populations...? I'm sure the non profits would be up for that if it was truly impartial....if funding is needed for impartial research (ie, scientists NOT hired by farming corps)....not so sure about the farms.
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Pretty sure the Aquaculture Industry in BC puts quite a bit of $$ towards research and environmental issues associated with their industry.
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Yes you may just be guessing Marmot. As for fish farms kicking in money for joint studies. Do Not think for a minute that they do not. They also put money into coastal community sport programs for the kids and much more. If you are realy interested in just how much money has flowed from salmon farming into joint studies and back into coastal communities, I will be happy to dig it up for you. I do not have to guess Marmot. I can play the GAME also. What if the fish farms donated more dallors than the Moore fundation, would the ngos support farming or stay with Alaska's farmed ranch salmon?
"like the single-mom on a limited income who's offered $100.00 towards the cause". Well I am in there then. What is going to be done with that $100.00?
As for farmers not wanting joint studies with ngos Marmot, get a load of this once again.
" Lack of quality assurance in the collection of field data. Pink and chum salmon
fry were collected using beach seines and subsampled using dip nets. Sea lice on the fry were
generally enumerated without regard to species (Lepeophtheirus salmonis or Caligus clemensi)
and then returned to the sea offering no opportunity for independent (blind) verification of the
results. No quality assurance procedures are described to insure the accuracy of the counts. A
credible quality assurance program would require, at a minimum, blind counts and the
recounting of lice on a subset of the fry by independent observers and comparison of the results
to insure consistency. Assistance in the field work was offered to Mr. Krkosek for the 2006 field
season during a conference call between Mr. Clare Backman (Marine Harvest), Mr. Krkosek and
Dr. Brooks. The offer was declined with Mr. Krkosek’s statement that he neither needed nor
wanted assistance in conducting the field work. No claim of intentional bias should be inferred
from this. However, unintentional bias in scientific work, particularly in field-work, is
something that all experienced scientists aggressively guard against.
The Standards, Protocols and Guidelines (SPG-2) developed by the British Columbia
Pacific Salmon Forum for Field Sampling Methods for Juvenile and Adult Pacific Salmon, and
Caligid Zooplankton discusses the inherent biases associated with beach seining and dip netting,
but fails to recommend quality assurance procedures to insure that collections represent random
samples and that counts and identifications of lice are accurate".
As you can see, I would ask some major questions to a donation asking group before I let some hard earned money go their way. Is my money only going to advertisement or back into the environment?
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Fact-Salmon Aquaculture sucks, stinks and is a cancer on the BC coast (as anyone who's ever been downwind of a net pen knows.)
God Rot the Salmon acquaculture 'business' and their paid flunkies/apologists and toadies.
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"Fact-Salmon Aquaculture sucks, stinks and is a cancer on the BC coast (as anyone who's ever been downwind of a net pen knows.)
God Rot the Salmon acquaculture 'business' and their paid flunkies/apologists and toadies".
That is a very good "FACT" Sam Salmon. Do you have a study that is third party reviewed which can support your findings?
Cheers Folkboat.
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So SAMSALMON do you think we will be allowed to fish in the "fish farms" once they kill off our wild salmon ( or the salmon runs are so small that they will be closed to recreational fishing) ???
Thanks for the advice on the smell, i guess we will need nose plugs or fish up wind.
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How do we continually let those with direct interests in open pen salmon farms continually derail these discussions?
I believe That the main concern of many here on this site is protection and enhancement of our wild salmon stocks. Let's not get away from focusing our our wild salmon by those who choose to make this into a much broader, less tangible "environmental" issue.
When we have concerns about the price of gasoline, do we let others distract us with discussion about all the good things that oil wells and refineries have done for our society and economy?
when we have concerns about unemployment, do we let others distract us with quotes about all the employment and great salaries we've had up until now.
I think that we focus on the challenge at hand.
HELLO!!! It's about survival of our wild salmon!
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So SAMSALMON do you think we will be allowed to fish in the "fish farms" once they kill off our wild salmon ( or the salmon runs are so small that they will be close to recreational fishing) ???
Thanks for the advice on the smell, i guess we will need nose plugs or fish up wind.
I wouldn't be surprised.
These ARE for profit businesses - they're not there to improve our environment!
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I hope nobody thinks i'm picking on Sam Salmon, i agree with his opinion and hope i never have to get close to a salmon farm.
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Well Morty, lets let our salmon stocks go to where the U.S. lower west coast salmon went to. Commercial and sport fisheries are closed. There were no fish farms down there to cause this. Tell us please what the cause was. After all "HELLO!!! It's about survival of our wild salmon!"
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How do we continually let those with direct interests in open pen salmon farms continually derail these discussions?
I believe That the main concern of many here on this site is protection and enhancement of our wild salmon stocks. Let's not get away from focusing our our wild salmon by those who choose to make this into a much broader, less tangible "environmental" issue.
When we have concerns about the price of gasoline, do we let others distract us with discussion about all the good things that oil wells and refineries have done for our society and economy?
when we have concerns about unemployment, do we let others distract us with quotes about all the employment and great salaries we've had up until now.
I think that we focus on the challenge at hand.
HELLO!!! It's about survival of our wild salmon!
Very good post.
It always amazes me that people can still defend fish farms with all the damage they have done in every country they have been located before we allowed them in British Columbia.
Wild fish are and always have been our part of our culture and what a shame it is that many want to destroy that. Its past Christmas time but a stocking full of coal to them this coming December. Our fish stocks are under attack on so many fronts the last few years and of course aquaculture is one of them. Thankfully we have many that are now standing up to that threat and trying to reverse that trend.
We owe than a lot of gratitude.
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i guess we will need nose plugs or fish up wind.
Easier casting that way-especially for the fly guys! 8) ;D
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"How do we continually let those with direct interests in open pen salmon farms continually derail these discussions?
I believe That the main concern of many here on this site is protection and enhancement of our wild salmon stocks. Let's not get away from focusing our our wild salmon by those who choose to make this into a much broader, less tangible "environmental" issue.
When we have concerns about the price of gasoline, do we let others distract us with discussion about all the good things that oil wells and refineries have done for our society and economy?
when we have concerns about unemployment, do we let others distract us with quotes about all the employment and great salaries we've had up until now. I think that we focus on the challenge at hand.
HELLO!!! It's about survival of our wild salmon!"
Can you people back up the science or studies of your concerns of salmon farming? Or would you rather play the Hearsya, and Presumption game?
I am proud of what I and others do. I will answer any of your concerns.
Cheers Folkboat.
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Our concern is that there's not 100, or 60, or 20 million sockeye, nor millions of each of Chinook, Coho, and Steelhead returning to the Fraser and other BC rivers.
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I am proud of what I and others do. I will answer any of your concerns.
Cheers Folkboat.
Can you tell us we are wrong in saying their has been problems with fish farms in many countries that had them before they came to British Columbia. If so can you give us the evidence please?
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That is my concern also. Since there are no fish farms close to the Fraser I think we may want to look at what is happening up stream of the fraser. Perhaps we should look at what we fertilize our lawns, and gardens with for starts. NGO's looking for donations in Ireland blamed salmon farming for a decline in fish stocks. Truth was, and I am not putting down farmers or ranchers or anyone that cuts their grass. I am also not trying to change the subject.
http://www.wrfb.ie/news/newsitems/newsitems.php
"Farmers warned to be vigilant about water pollution 2005-06-29
The Western Regional Fisheries Board has asked all farmers to be extremely vigilant at this time of year when it comes to harvesting silage and spreading slurry. Silage operations are ongoing all summer, and silage effluent has the potential to cause devastating pollution in streams and rivers. Silage effluent is one of the most polluting substances to threaten the environment, and can cause massive fish kills if it enters a watercourse. Slurry is also spread on grassland over the summer months, and if allowed to enter a stream, can wipe out fish and invertebrate life. Streams and rivers are low in the summer months and have less dilution capacity, so are very vulnerable to pollution at this time. The fisheries board has appealed to farmers to be careful that no silage effluent is allowed to run off into drains or watercourses. Round bales are the most environmentally friendly way to store silage, however if a silage pit is used it must be properly lined to prevent leakage. Good farmyard management will help to prevent accidental runoff, and protect the local environment. Slurry spreading should be carried out in dry weather, and not when heavy rain is forecast. It should never be spread close to a watercourse, and tanks should never be cleaned beside a stream or river. The fisheries board thanks the farming community for their co-operation at this busy time of year, and for their assistance in maintaining a clean and healthy environment in our lakes and rivers. "
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"Can you tell us we are wrong in saying their has been problems with fish farms in many countries that had them before they came to British Columbia. If so can you give us the evidence please?"
Yes Chris, there have been proplems with fish farms in other countries and in B.C. As in any industrie there will be problems. What evidence to what problem in what country would you like me to comment on?
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For starters I have been told wild fish stocks have been severely compromised wherever fish farms have been located. Is that true?
I know fish farms are not the only cause of the decline in fish stocks but the problem is as I see it many level of government, Provincial and Federal have not all they should be doing to protecting all species of fish. They do not provide funding to do proper studies as they seem to put big business and the almighty dollar above protecting the fish and their habitat.
I donot have to list all these activities as they are all listed and commented on FWR and many other forums many times. Rodney has made it easier to find them now by putting fish - related issues separately.
Thanks for your input, off to bed now and try to get some sleep as I continue to worry if we will have fish for the future, for all our grandchildren to enjoy. Not only to catch them but to observe their amazing life cycle each and every year. This continuing decline must not be allowed to happen.
I however do feel there is a glimmer of hope. Thanks to the power of the internet, people can communicate about their concerns far easier than ever before. As well there is a strong rising up of the public, on so many fronts on these issues that the government should not be able to be so secret on pushing through their hidden agenda as they have before and avoid us.
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Chris I understand people have concerns. However I can not reply on what you say your concerns are on just what you have been told.
"For starters I have been told wild fish stocks have been severely compromised wherever fish farms have been located. Is that true?"
For a start can you tell me what was told to you and the science behind those facts please.
Cheers and have a good night. I am of for the night also... Folkboat.
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I can't buy anything you're selling folk boat.
A thousand words
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/pink_with_lice.jpg)
http://www.livingoceans.org/files/PDF/fish_farms/Super_Unnatural.pdf
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Gentlemen;
Thanks to all for taking the time to respond to my post; I haven't posted here for some time and I know I've ruffled a few feathers here in the past.
My days of duking-it-out on forums with the salmon-farmer apologists (like folkboat) have long since passed. People like him are becoming very nervous these days as the tide of both public and scientific opinion turns against this menace called the net-pen business.
In the nearly 10 years I have been reading and writing about this environmental-holocaust it never failed to amaze me how, at every turn in the road of the learning process, the same pointed question came up, 'What's in it for BC and all the wild critters that depend on Pacific Salmon?'
As the same answer invariably revealed itself - nothing! - it became clear to me early on that people (government) in high places had been bought by the industry. That really pisses me; the idea that the money/greed flowing - like effluent - from this industry has actually contributed to pushing Pacific Salmon precipitously close to extinction and my children and grandchildren may never experience the joy of catching a salmon because of it.
The WSA was born on a sport-fishing website (SFBC) and I am, first and foremost, a sport-fisherman. Four of the five Directors of the WSA are sport-fisherman and one is a commercial fisherman. I am actively seeking First Nations representation to sit with us as a Director. Our organization will be all-embracing of all peoples who have a vested interest in the welfare of Pacific Salmon. These principles are entrenched in our Constitution. I have little to no confidence in my governments capacity to ensure to long-term health and viability of Pacific Salmon populations; that is why I formed this organization and that is why we (the WSA) will not rest until the salmon-farmers are out of our waters.
All I can ask is that all of you try to see through what I call the - '3-D' tactics of industry advocates: Deflect/Deny/Destroy!
If any of you need any more information about the WSA, please don't hesitate to email your questions to me; our website is currently being revamped.
Standing for Wild Salmon,
Terry Anderson
silversaw@telus.net
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"I am proud of what I and others do. I will answer any of your concerns."
Cheers Folkboat.
"Come on children it's time to drink the kool-aid"
Jim Jones
Statements that require a second thought.
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What is the WSA's views on Alaskan Salmon Ranching?
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I am just guessing here...but I bet they don't mind as just take a look at our own SEP program. A good deal of our urban streams would not survive without our own version of "sea-ranching" . Luckily it is not to the same scale as what goes on in Alaska.
The people who are busy arguing with you here, no matter if you have good science on your side, Alexandra Morton and her Merry Band of Environmental NIMBY types have already convinced the majority of them with pretty pictures and such. She is BC's answer to Briget Bardot!
Wild Fish Stocks (salmon) are declining all over the province. Even in areas where there are no Fish Farms.
So, just keep on blaming one industry, because it's convenient to do so.
If you do "win" and let's say the farms go away....and the stocks are still declining...who are you going to blame then?
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Hey at least we'll know we did what we could. More than people defending salmon farms can say.
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Wild Fish Stocks (salmon) are declining all over the province. Even in areas where there are no Fish Farms.
So, just keep on blaming one industry, because it's convenient to do so.
If you do "win" and let's say the farms go away....and the stocks are still declining...who are you going to blame then?
You may have missed this part of my post above. :-\
I know fish farms are not the only cause of the decline in fish stocks but the problem is as I see it many level of government, Provincial and Federal have not done all they should be doing to protecting all species of fish. They do not provide funding to do proper studies as they seem to put big business and the almighty dollar above protecting the fish and their habitat.
I donot have to list all these activities as they are all listed and commented on FWR and many other forums many times.
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Normally I'd never get involved in a thread like this but the evidence has been on the evening news many times with photos like the one Novabonker has posted[good job by the way]and scientists showing the world the harmful effects of the pens in the straits.I tend to believe Chris,and others who are involved in so many enviornmental issues like him,before I'd believe someone with an agenda
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Hey there Drh. Some Ngo's with their own agenda say they are not against salmon farming as long as it goes to closed containment. What is your view point on this subject?
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Sure,give it a shot ,but could it be set up somewhere not in the path migrating juvenile salmon,I guess I'm sounding a bit like a NIMBY,but the decline in stocks bother me a lot more than the meth lab that used to be next door
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Closed containment if done right would not only solve the problem of it's degradation of fish stocks and the environment but it I think it would actually benefit wild salmon by taking some of the harvest quota off them. As long as the aquaculture industry continues to make imporvements in it's feed to lessen the use of wild species. If this was to take place farms should be able to sell their product for a higher value because they can label the product as environmentally friendly.
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Well firstly Folkboat, I believe this website is named Fishing with Rod, not Farming in pen. Most of the contributors here are interested in, and willing to, make changes to protect and enhance our naturally occurring wild stocks.
From what I've read of your posts so far, they seem to be largely targeted at defending an unnatural: animal breeding, growing, and harvesting business.
The number and tenor of your posts reads like you've been assigned the task of (maybe even employed) lobbying for the farming industry all of a sudden. (you just joined on 24 days ago) Strangely coincidental to when Alexandra Morton was making significant headway in getting public awarenes.
Morty
(Mortgage Broker and Recreational Fisher)
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Hey to be fair, this is in the "fishing related issues" section.....but i had a good laugh at that :D
I just dont think Folkie, aqua, or others on that bandwagon realize that when they recite the same stuff again and again that it does nothing but fan the flames. It's almost like having Jehova's witnesses come to the door trying to convince you based on "the watchtower" that you should convert....it makes for interesting discussion until they come day after day. Then it just gets old and worn out and REALLY makes you disdain their coming to your door.
I have nothing against Jehova's witnesses btw....just the ones that wake me up at 8am when I've been up working until 1am!!! Nothing against fish farmers either really, just their industry.
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Well Morty. As Marmot said, “Hey to be fair, this is in the "fishing related issues" section.....but I had a good laugh at that ”, And the topic does say “Re: Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society: GAME ON!” We are warned before entering the Fishing-related Issues & News that topics may get “HOT”. Hot does not happen when the forum is all one sided. Do I not to get to play?
You say this Morty “From what I've read of your posts so far, they seem to be largely targeted at defending an unnatural: animal breeding, growing, and harvesting business”.
Is this any different then hatcheries selecting salmon for brood, hatching the eggs, feeding them commercial salmon feed, releasing them into the wild, and we sport fisher people harvesting them? I am a recreational fisher also Morty. I care about the environment just as much, if not much more than most. I depend on it for a living.
Farming has come a long way in the last 10 years. Mostly do to environmentalist awareness and the input from people working on the farms themselves. The U.S $ funded ngos do not pass that information out though. Marty, I have the opportunity to read studies from both sides of the fence. This is why I am confident in why I am here and putting out my opinion as many of you I am sure are confident of your opinions. If I wasn’t confident, I would be sitting on your side of the fence. I do know sea lice can kill smolts at 3 and under grams, while smolts around 10 grams have no problem with lice. The question should be, why are many smolts entering the marine environment under 3 grams. Fresh water and temperature conditions play a big part in this I believe. From what I have seen, salmon farming plays a very minimal if any part in the decline of wild stocks up and down the west coast. The decline is happening in areas that have never had fish farms near them. U.S lower west coast for example. Sport and commercial fisheries are closed.
Sorry you feel that I am reciting the same old stuff Marmot. But am I any different than the anti-farm band wagon and the many people reciting their same old stuff? Morty I got a giggle from your comment “The number and tenor of your posts reads like you've been assigned the task of (maybe even employed) lobbying for the farming industry all of a sudden. (you just joined on 24 days ago) Strangely coincidental to when Alexandra Morton was making significant headway in getting public awareness”.
This is simply not true. I do this on my own with no funding or moneys from industry or private. Its only 2 cents Morty. Only 2 cents.
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As an impartial observer (now a contributor) It seems the farm defender's argument is kicking the snot out of the anti-farmers "chicken little" hysterics and mean spirited attacks. Just remember who's industry is actually in the business of stalking and killing wild salmon...fishers.
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As an impartial observer (now a contributor) It seems the farm defender's argument is kicking the snot out of the anti-farmers "chicken little" hysterics and mean spirited attacks. Just remember who's industry is actually in the business of stalking and killing wild salmon...fishers.
As you are new to the board you most likely are not aware there is hundred's if not thousands of anglers and others that give freely of their time to help preserve fish, their habitat and the environment. If it was not for them, people that really care about having fish for the future we would be in a lot worse shape. Sure they harvest fish but out of the other sectors they are near the bottom of the totem pole harvest wise.
As has been stated many times governments are not leading by example and actually what they allow to happen destroys countless wild fish every year, of course fish farms is one of them. ::)
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I agree with you Chris and I am happy you said “and others that give freely of their time to help preserve fish, their habitat and the environment”.
Fish farmers happen to be some of them, as I am one. I can understand that many anglers do not have the opportunity or time to help with restoration and clean up of the environment, as I saw you do on one of your video clips Chris. Hats off to you Chris and to the many that stop and take the time to pick up after others.
As for “As has been stated many times governments are not leading by example and actually what they allow to happen destroys countless wild fish every year, of course fish farms is one of them. ” May I say you bang the same old drum that Marmot accused me of. “they recite the same stuff again and again”
It looks like we have a lot in common Chris but I do not think someone needs to be told or reminded that they are new here. This could portray a bulling act to shut people up witch is shunned in today’s children.
Cheers Folkboat
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Morty, yes this is "Fishing with Rod", not "Farming in Pen", but also not "anti salmon farming campaign". We are operating a private business here and have chosen to provide a resource where discussions can take place. This resource is not to be used as a tool for political campaign, so as frustrating as it may be, you cannot suggest that someone else should stop posting simply because his or her points of views are different to yours. In fact, different points of views are highly welcome here as some of the posts mykisscrazy and other individuals in the biology fields who are independent have provided. People should be able to collect all information and make their own decisions what they think is right, instead of being persuaded into what others think maybe right.
Now that is clear, we have another issue to deal with. Even though Folkboat's points of views are welcome, some conducts have taken part that is unacceptable on this discussion forum. Three accounts (Folkboat, fishstocker, aquapaloosa) are being used from the same IP address. They all signed up within the same period of time. They all share the same views. Coincidence? I do not think so. A posting ban will be put in place on this IP address. Pity, because obviously this individual probably have lots to contribute, but has chosen to do it inappropriately.
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Thanks Rodney for not including my name among those whose conduct has been questioned here previously.
I have tried to clean up my act some thanks to useful feedback from people like you; it's difficult when one becomes passionate as I am about an issue affecting wild fish.
The issue you have underscored here - fishfarmers lurking on internet Forums - is not new; they're on all the forums and their mission is to distract, confuse and keep as many of us 'Sporties' as confused and 'on-the-fence' as possible.
They know what I know: the end of the open net-pen business is on the horizon and they are getting nervous.
The day is near that all the net-pen apologist's will run from these Forums - in disgrace.
Respectfully,
Terry Anderson
Canadian WILD SALMON ALLIANCE Society
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"Three accounts (Folkboat, fishstocker, aquapaloosa) are being used from the same IP address."
Somehow that dosn't come as a shock. :D Good work Sherlock.
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Wow!!! Hahahah that's solid gold. I'm not surprised either...although I did think aquapaloosa and folkboat had two different mental disorders :D
It really is too bad they can't seem to get some decent closed inland farms going, but I think the reality of the situation is that salmon are not meant to be raised in close quarters. Any aquarist knows what happens to fish when you overcrowd a tank...big tanks are no different I would guess...so no matter how clean they kept the water etc. they would no doubt need to use plenty of antibiotics etc. to counteract any effects of overpopulating. Truly too bad because it could take pressure off wild stocks a bit.
I hope you are right terry and our province does a U-turn in its approach to aquaculture in the near future!
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Hi Rodney - no political agenda on my part. I have even openly stated my career.
Somethimes I just have to call things the way I see them and I appreciate you allowing that here. If anything, I hope I am setting an examlpe for others to not just read the posts and sit back. Check the long time signature I have at the end of all my messages. "What are YOU going to DO about the salmon crisis?"
I am not against aquaculture, including salmon farming, and have stated that previously. I am however very concerned about concentrated fish populations in open net pens. I am also concerned about wild steelhead gulping cured roe, and have stated that previously as well.
Doing what I can.
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Howdy,
JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW WHO MAY BE WILLING TO DONATE TO THE WSA CAUSE, WE NOW HAVE 'PAY-PAL' LINKED TO OUR WEBSITE (WILDSALMONALLIANCE.CA)
IF ANY OF YOU WISH TO HELP US OUT BUT DON'T WANT TO USE 'PAY-PAL', PLEASE EMAIL ME (WITH YOUR NAME AND HOME ADDRESS) AND I'LL HAPPILY EMAIL YOU A COPY OF OUR DONOR ADVICE.
THANKS SO MUCH!
Terry Anderson
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aquapaloosa's account has been restored after I further looked into it. While each account usually has its own IP address, in rare circumstances IPs are shared by many accounts. Let's be extremely clear here. None of the accounts' posting privelege was taken away because they are against the anti-fish farming movement. When several accounts are registered from the same IP, it usually sets off an alarm as the intention is not usually good if they are being used by the same individual. In this case, they are not. I have no intention of removing individuals who are against the anti-salmon farming views that some of you have, so don't thank me or ask me to remove someone simply because they don't agree with you.
Next item. Kudos to you Little Hawk for having the passion to do what you believe in, but not for your approach. While it is somewhat better than what was being posted a year or two ago, you may still want to change your method of gathering support. Sensationalism being overdone leaves a bad taste. Game on? Sink the fish farm? While I am not in favour of predatory species aquaculture (either open pen or closed system), personally your organization does not get my support. The way that the organization is being represented seems like a group of militants or wingnuts in my opinion. That most likely would offend some, but perhaps take that as an advice rather than an insult if you wish to generate support. When my goal is to generate support to help my cause, I prefer to let people make an educated decision on whether they should or not after they have done the research of both sides themselves, instead of having information force fed down on them and creating a witch hunt movement. Someone else said it best, who will you go after next after fish farms are removed?
The absence of empathy amazes me. While you may not agree with provincial government's support of fish farms, the livelihood of thousands of people in small coastal towns rely on these operations. Removing the farms, easy for you to say, your job is not in jeopardy. How do you expect people, whose jobs that you are attempting to remove, to react to your views on the disucssion forum, especially in the current economic climate? Again, it's not so much the views that I have a problem with, it is the approach and has always been whenever a hot issue is being discussed.
The WSA is welcome to update members its progress. A farming organization is just as welcome to do the same. Just remember, this is a sportfishing discussion forum. We've set up a section for this type of discussion. We don't have to, but have done so because some members want it. Don't abuse that privelege. To understand where that line is drawn, put yourself in this scenario. Would you go into a fishing tacklestore and set up a anti-salmon farm booth with speakers and a microphone? Most participants in these discussions may want to take a moment to rethink how they should conduct themselves so the discussion can actually be beneficial to all. You are not here to share your thoughts, you are also here to learn too.
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The absence of empathy amazes me. While you may not agree with provincial government's support of fish farms, the livelihood of thousands of people in small coastal towns rely on these operations. Removing the farms, easy for you to say, your job is not in jeopardy. How do you expect people, whose jobs that you are attempting to remove, to react to your views on the discussion forum, especially in the current economic climate? Again, it's not so much the views that I have a problem with, it is the approach and has always been whenever a hot issue is being discussed.
More like hundreds Rodney not thousands no way I mean I've travelled to these places time and time again-some people have some minimum wage jobs better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick that's about it.
If there were decent paying jobs on those net pens unions would be sniffing around looking to organise-seen any evidence of that at all?
Well there's been some talk but no action.
Personally I very much appreciate your efforts to bring an open forum to the net and have done my part to contribute reasoned input.
But I've said it before and I'll say it again-people under the age of 40 have no idea how much has been lost-the plenitude of the past has passed into myth and legend never to return.
There is no middle ground with those who would destroy what little is left in name of their god money.
If things continue as they have been going then we'll be reduced to fishing for bait and call it sportfishing.
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Rodney;
Thanks for your persistence in your efforts to educate me and bring my past transgressions back into the spotlight. You swing a big stick Rodney, at someone you really don't know very well.
Thanks also for broadcasting your intent not to support a recently Incorporated Society working hell-bent on making an effort to ensure there might still be some Wild Salmon around for our kids and grandkids. Some might argue it's a noble cause we are engaged in.
For your information - in case I failed to mention it to you and the good sportfishermen who post here - the WSA is now steered by 5-Directors, 4 of whom are concerned sportfishermen just like you Rodney.
Your contention that the Industry creates "thousands" of jobs in remote villages in BC underscores how little you really know about the net-pen business here on our Coast.
How foolish I was to think I could come back here and win some help for this cause.
This will be my last post here Rodney - you can chalk this one up to the fish-farmers.
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Thanks for your persistence in your efforts to educate me and bring my past transgressions back into the spotlight. You swing a big stick Rodney, at someone you really don't know very well.
Past? The reference is to the your present strategy of gathering support. Obviously I don't know you. The comment is not about you, but how your organization is being perceived by the way you promote it.
Thanks also for broadcasting your intent not to support a recently Incorporated Society working hell-bent on making an effort to ensure there might still be some Wild Salmon around for our kids and grandkids. Some might argue it's a noble cause we are engaged in.
There are hundreds of ongoing projects that are ensuring the survival of wild salmon. Just because I don't support the approach of one does not mean I do not care about wild salmon. Which projects I currently support do not need my mentioning, my actions speak for me.
Your contention that the Industry creates "thousands" of jobs in remote villages in BC underscores how little you really know about the net-pen business here on our Coast.
Read it again. The point is that empathy is absent. You may want to do a bit of research on my academic background before deciding how much I know about BC's fisheries.
This will be my last post here Rodney - you can chalk this one up to the fish-farmers.
Don't forget to click on (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/Themes/babylon/images/english/logout.gif)
They're free advices in my last post, take them or leave them, either way it doesn't make a difference to me. I receive emails from people who find your method of promoting WSA inappropriate, it ain't me having a personal grudge against the organization. In fact, I don't know anything about it, except that it's looking for money to sink the fish farms.
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I blame this all on Folkboat .........and the free samples he hands out.