Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: alwaysfishn on March 25, 2009, 09:35:23 PM
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I heard the other day that it is now legal for anyone to buy a native caught fish as long as they get a receipt from the seller. Anyone else heard this?
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that's insane :'(
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Link?
Sounds like internet Bee Ess to me.
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Well, with some of the policies out there, I (unfortunately) wouldn't be too surprised. :-\ But I gotta agree with Sam on that one
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I doubt it will make a difference. The Natives willl not go to the effort to make their business legal. They will keep selling as long as misinformed people keep buying.
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Yess occifer, i bought this unclipped coho from the indians, and no i haven't been drinking. ???
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Cant see there being truth to that, but regardless if someone generally is going to but a salmon off of a reserve its going to happen legal or illegally, doesn't matter the label, its still going to happen...*sigh*...
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Only fish caught under a commercial fishing licence may be legally sold. At some times during the year the Department of Fisheries & Oceans (DFO) enters into agreements with First Nations to allow sale of salmon. At this time there are no such agreements in place, thus no authorized sale of salmon. Once these agreements are in place and a native fishery authorizing sale is announced DFO advises the public through it's Fishery Notice system. You can check this site regularly or sign up for automatic notification. http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm
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Never ever, under any circumstances buy native fish...agreement or not! Native drift net fishing kills sturgeon and other species with no regard for conservation.
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That is a pretty broad statement odesseues.
Don't paint all native drift fishermen with the same brush, a lot of the commercial guys are no better. I wouldn't buy native caught fish unless it was a regulated fishery, which it never will be.
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I hear that statement about commercial vs native and I appreciate the comment. Upon reflection, for me it comes down to someone fishing under a 'food' license shouldn't be allowed to sell. It's like buying stolen fishing gear. But a big problem with small drift nets left in the river for hours at a time in fast water in the upper Fraser is un-targeted species kill; steelhead, sturgeon whatever - doesn't really matter who's putting them there, they just shouldn't be there.
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Bad Idea,don't do it cause it just encourages them to harvest more if the demands there
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There will be more greed and illegal poaching with massive nets, and that does not help the already depleted Fraser sockeyes. Hope DFO will put conservation as their top mandate and not cave in to native demands when stocks are endangered. Last year, after we had been told to stop after only 5 days of opening, the natives were allowed to fish weeks after weeks catching hundreds of thousands of sockeyes with drift nets in a low cycle year. Why? Why not just have natives fish with traditional gears to limit the kill? Why do natives need that much fish to eat? You & I know the answers. Friends & neighbours were all bragging the deal they got from some secret native source and kind of joked why I had to sweat & expense so much gas & time to catch only 2 per day. They had more socs in their freezer than my meager catch. LOL. ;D Besides, they said they could pick the bigger ones for their $, where as we caught mostly smallies small enough to escape with net marks, and that is when you are lucky to catch something. Quite a few fishing comrades were skunked last year. So, the big question for some of them this year is -To fish or not to fish.... (Shakespere should have written this one too) ;D Perhaps DFO & the natives will answer this one for us this year - a total closure to sporties. But will DFO risk the loss of the license revenue??? Any body can give an educated guess? ;D
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Upon reflection, for me it comes down to someone fishing under a 'food' license shouldn't be allowed to sell. It's like buying stolen fishing gear. But a big problem with small drift nets left in the river for hours at a time in fast water in the upper Fraser is un-targeted species kill; steelhead, sturgeon whatever - doesn't really matter who's putting them there, they just shouldn't be there.
yup, agreed
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Don't buy native cought fish >:( unless the government can find some way to tax it or remove some of the tax breaks they get already they are supposed to fish for food not for sale
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Obviously no one has been to the Moricetown Falls on the Bulkley River in July. I remember my uncle buying salmon thirty plus years ago to barbeque that night for dinner. I have been through a few times in the past few years heading to the Kitimat and I still see people lined up at the trunk of a car so I can only assume it is to pick up a fish.
I agree it is wrong to purchase salmon from the natives who should be fishing for food not profit but I think it has gone on for a lot longer then people think. I don't ever recall seeing a conservation officer being present when I have been there and I would suggest they have most likely just turned a blind eye to the entire situation. They are not selling all of the fish they harvest and this is most likely why no action has been taken. I personally feel as an adult that it could lead to an overharvest of fish so I don't buy any fish from the natives. However, thirty years ago no one was talking about depleting salmon stocks. Besides I'm driving up to the Kitimat to catch my own.
I don't see what creating another commercial fishery would accomplish. If it is to limit the amount of salmon natives are catching or the total number of fish harvested then who is going to be cutback to make room for this fishery? Will it be the commercial side or sportfishing? I would assume they won't touch the native harvest numbers for food.
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I refuse to buy off the natives. I would rather buy from save-on first.
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I refuse to buy off the natives. I would rather buy from save-on first.
Likewise.
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I would never buy off them. I have heard many disgusting stories from CO's that come by my work saying they sometimes urinate on the fish before selling them and there are obviously no sanitary requirements or food safe requirements when buying fish from someone without a reputable business license. My advice after hearing many stories from the CO's: STAW AWAY unless its from a licensed food safe store.
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anyone know what the natives are selling the fish/lb. ?
I don't know..... I've never bought any.....
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give them rights to harvest a number, (maybe 250,000 or what ever the population of fish will allow) keep track that they don't go over, and let them do what ever they want with there allotted amount.
hey, bigwinner
they sell for $10 a fish
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I used to fish with a wealthy guy who lived in New West at the time,he bought 30 off them delivered to his house in back of a pick up on a hot sunny summer day,asked me if I wanted any I decined.
He paid 300 for the lot ::)
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give them rights to harvest a number, (maybe 250,000 or what ever the population of fish will allow) keep track that they don't go over, and let them do what ever they want with there allotted amount.
hey, bigwinner
they sell for $10 a fish
Ya, that should be easy....... ::) ::) ::)
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give them rights to harvest a number, (maybe 250,000 or what ever the population of fish will allow) keep track that they don't go over, and let them do what ever they want with there allotted amount.
hey, bigwinner
they sell for $10 a fish
Ya, that should be easy....... ::) ::) ::)
alwaysfishin
its easier then busting every food fish sale.
count the fish as the boats come in, and stop them when quotas are met.
leaving native confrontation to the docks and rivers and out of the major public areas.
maybe you could add something worth reading, to your own thread.
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If want to know another reason not to buy native fish, a few years back I was coaching hockey and we had the kids running laps behind twin rinks when a pickup pulled up and the people in the truck started putting the snow that was cleaned off the the ice into containers holding fish. Anyone who has spent anytime in a hockey arena can attest to what could or is in that snow. Also it says right in my hockey Canada coaches book that snow off the ice should never be ingested.
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5-10 bucks a fish......
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I can't even buy bar weights for that price let alone a whole fish!!!
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You guys shouldnt label natives that way i seen a whiteman netting the river last year (sweltzer)
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Out of curiosity is it actually illegal to buy fish from Natives? I have seen them being sold at various places over the years and never heard of anyone getting arrested or shut down or anyone arrested for buying them. Have there been court cases over this?
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No one is labelling anyone. It is illegal for ANYONE to sell fish unless they are licensed, race does not matter ; however, if you read the title of the page it is about buying native caught fish, no one is pinning all illegal fishing activities on natives, nor are we saying natives are the only ones doing this, we are simply replying to questions asked about NATIVE CAUGHT FISH . So please put the race cards away as from my opinion no one is playing the race card except those attacking us for replying to valid questions. If you doubt the fish in question you are interested in buying , ask to see their license, if they don't have one , report them. Many people have been caught and reported/ dealt with for illegally selling fish, and if they are not dealt with by the proper authorities, at least YOU have done your part.
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I will never buy fish from the Natives,but i know people who do.If nobody bought from them,it would end these practices.My thoughts are they should only be allowed to keep what they intend to eat,not to sell for profit.
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give them rights to harvest a number, (maybe 250,000 or what ever the population of fish will allow) keep track that they don't go over, and let them do what ever they want with there allotted amount.
hey, bigwinner
they sell for $10 a fish
Ya, that should be easy....... ::) ::) ::)
alwaysfishin
its easier then busting every food fish sale.
count the fish as the boats come in, and stop them when quotas are met.
leaving native confrontation to the docks and rivers and out of the major public areas.
maybe you could add something worth reading, to your own thread.
There is probably 2-300 miles or more of the Fraser river that is fished by the natives. Fishing in those areas is often carried on 24 hours a day. Many of the areas are only accessible by boat. It would be impossible to monitor catch quotas.
That's likely why fisheries monitors native quotas on a voluntary reporting basis....
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I also don't think that DFO has the funding or staff to implement a system to monitor the catch rates themselves.
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Natives still own the land and waterways! It has never been sold! The Royal Proclamation of 1763 is upheld and affirmed in the 1982 Constitution, charter of rights and freedoms.You guys should carefully read those documents. I buy fish from time to time!
Hotrod
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and the ones they dont sell for 10$ they just dump them on the side of the road...................very poor handling of OUR fish.
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Things change. Yes, Europeans took land and resources that previously had been used only by the natives. That happened. Apologies have been made. Land claims have been reached and continue to be handled. This is the past. Now we have to live for the present and the future. All Canadians have to use and share our resources in a sustainable way, or they won't be here in the future. Neither current commercial nor native fishery practices are sustainable, or completely transparent and honest.
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We belong to the land it doesn't belong to us THAT GOES FOR EVERYONE no matter white, brown, black or purple
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Things change. Yes, Europeans took land and resources that previously had been used only by the natives. That happened. Apologies have been made. Land claims have been reached and continue to be handled. This is the past. Now we have to live for the present and the future. All Canadians have to use and share our resources in a sustainable way, or they won't be here in the future. Neither current commercial nor native fishery practices are sustainable, or completely transparent and honest.
Agreed, how long must our generation pay for what other have done before us. Don't get me wrong alot of indefensable things have happened but at some point a culture has to move on and become part of the coimmunity
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I second that, it's Their Own Land since like ever... and they certainly have rights to do whatever they wants within their own jurisdiction whether you buy fish off them or not, they are just doing the same thing as their ancestors did thousands of years ago and they will keep on doing this in the future, too. They are not the people who screwed up the whole environment that makes fishing harder than before, so they certainly don't have the responsibility to follow our rules. Remember anyone with Indian Status don't need a fishing license, so how are you gonna judge them by our rules?
So you think that gill and drift netting 24hrs per day covering 100% of the width of the fraser has no impact on fish stocks?
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could they reply in your own words too? You think you pay for wat you havn't done and the Natives don't? Not here to lecture anyone, but i thought it's written thoroughly in Constitution which is the agreement in between Europeans and natives that Hotrod stated previously, and everybody already know that isn't it?
Please clarify your statement a little more I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What do you mean the natives are paying for(not meant to be a racial statement just wondering what you mean)?
"and everybody already know that isn't it?"
I don't understand what you mean.
Nothing will be solved until all sectors come together and one side stops feeling they have the right to dictate more than another. Everyone must take a step back from their own interests. Everything must be done in the best interest of the resource and gill netting and selling fish illegally as well as commercial harvest at this time with dwindling stocks is not in the best interest of that resource plain and simple.
So you think that gill and drift netting 24hrs per day covering 100% of the width of the fraser has no impact on fish stocks?
Very well put. I don't think this is the way of the "ancestors".
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This is getting a little ridiculous. By no means am I saying that any native rights issues are resolved. This country does have a shameful past, as do all where an aboriginal group has been conquered at some point in history (which is most).
Still, we are one species who needs to take a much more future oriented perspective when thinking about our resources. When we consider how many fish are harvested by any group we need to consider what is sustainable. The current native fishery practices (at least on the lower Fraser) are not honest, ethical, or sustainable. Anyone who buys fish they catch in a non-sanctioned fishery is supporting this.
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If we want to have a meaningful discussion and keep this thread from being locked, I think that we need to take the racial aspect out. What is really important when buying fish, or any other product for that matter, is whether or not you are getting it from a source that minimizes the impact on the resource and the environment.
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If we want to have a meaningful discussion and keep this thread from being locked, I think that we need to take the racial aspect out. What is really important when buying fish, or any other product for that matter, is whether or not you are getting it from a source that minimizes the impact on the resource and the environment.
What about the small fact that it is illegal to buy native caught fish? ::)
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2007/pr17-eng.htm (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2007/pr17-eng.htm)
November 28, 2007 VANCOUVER – Following a recent investigation by fishery officers that uncovered the unauthorized sale of fish and fish products via the internet, Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) would like to remind the public of the health and safety concerns surrounding the purchase of such products from unauthorized and unapproved sources.
Fish and shellfish that is being sold to the public must go through the necessary health and safety inspections that are required when selling to the public. Fish from an unapproved source, that is not properly processed or stored, or that has not been part of a regulated inspection process may cause serious illness or, in some cases, even death.
The Department recommends that any fish or fish products recently purchased over the internet, from non-commercial sources in the Lower Mainland, should not be consumed due to potentially high levels of e-coli bacteria. Anyone with questions or concerns about consuming any such products acquired through the internet may contact the DFO reporting line toll free at 1-800-465-4336 or 604-607-4186 (in Greater Vancouver), or contact their local health authority.
DFO would also like to remind the public that it is unlawful to buy, sell, trade or barter, or offer to buy, sell, trade or barter any fish that has not been caught under a licence that authorizes sale. Only fish caught under a licence that authorizes the sale of that fish should be purchased.
Businesses or individuals that buy or sell fish are subject to federal and provincial fisheries and health legislation. Violators of this legislation may be subject to arrest, fines, jail, and forfeiture of anything seized.
DFO is continually working to end illegal fishing activities and the related illegal sales of such fish and fish products. As part of this work, the Department is asking the general public for information on activities of this nature or any contravention of the Fisheries Act and Regulations. Anyone with information can call the toll-free violation reporting line at 1-800-465-4336.
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People do illegal things all of the time when they know they will likely get away with it (ie. smoking pot, speeding, etc.). I doubt that many people are getting caught and convicted for buying these fish. I know that this was the original intent of the post, but I don't think this is as much an issue of whether or not it is legal as it is an issue of whether or not is the practice is a damaging thing.
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I don't see a word Native in the entire article
Neither do I........ :o and I suspect you're just being a smart a$$ and you actually understand this statement: "DFO would also like to remind the public that it is unlawful to buy, sell, trade or barter, or offer to buy, sell, trade or barter any fish that has not been caught under a licence that authorizes sale. Only fish caught under a licence that authorizes the sale of that fish should be purchased."
But in case you don't........ next time you buy a fish from a native ask him if its a "fish that has not been caught under a licence that authorizes sale."
Although the first nation people have unique rights and privileges, they are still governed by the laws of Canada. DFO is responsible for enforcing the fisheries laws. Buying a fish from a native is no different than speeding, in most cases you won't get caught, but you are still breaking the law.
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In accordance to the Royal Proclamation of 1763 " for the use and benefit of the said Indians". Again this document is upheld in the 1982 Constitution charter of rights and freedoms. Buy away!
Hotrod
UCC 1-207. all rights reserved
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Hotrod,now i have to bite.Buy away??????????????? I prefer to catch my own.I not sure the law you keep quoteing is in fact what governs the selling of native caught fish for sale.As far as i know it is illegal to sell salmon caught on the Fraser by natives,thier openings are for food and cerimoniol purposes only.A fisherman catches his own to eat,that is why we fish for sockeye when open.Buying sockeye illegally defeats the purpose and futhers these unethical actions.
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The last time there was a native commercial opening, they're were all kinds of fish packers and processors up around Hope buying truckloads of sockeye, so those fish you were buying in the markets in Vancouver were probably native caught fish, there did not seem to be any concern there, sometimes I cannot believe the naivety of the contributers to this forum thinking that a commercial caught fish that's been on ice for ten days before it reaches the market can be fresher than a native caught fish caught that morning. But wvr the next time there is a native commercial opening buy your fish at any market, if you don't think a native caught them they will probably be fresher to you. Jimmy Pattison has the right to catch more fish than any native band on the Fraser River and i don't see any racist A holes boycotting his fish cuz he's white.
If the natives have a legal commercial opening don't fight it, the fight has already been fought in court and they have, under the laws of our land won that opening, the only way that you will ever get counts on the fish is by cooperation not bitching about court cases already long lost.
If you see a native selling fish illegally get his license number and any evidence you can and report him same way as you would a white guy or oriental.
I keep seeing entries in here about the neighbor or the guy down the block or the wifes first cousin on her dads side buying illegally caught fish, well if you guys know so much about the illegal fish industry and you really give a cupcakes, REPORT THEM, don't just whine on some internet forum and do nothing.
Btw pretty well all the native boats up this end of the river pack ice and ice their fish down soon as they come out of the net, they aren't going to deliberately spoil the fish, they eat them too.
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For natives to fish commercially; that is, not for food or ceremonial purposes, they must have a licence and quota just like anyone else (white, brown or jimmy). Right now the government (both provincial and federal) is actively trying to move retiring commercial licences from the hands of "non-natives" to natives in an effort to stabilize the income of some of the remote single resource dependant bands. They do this by purchasing licences and quota on behalf of bands.
However for any fisherman (again white, brown or Jimmy) to try and sell fish caught under a personal exemption (ceremonial and food or a recreational licence) is illegal; nothing racist about it. So, buying fish is not the problem (native or otherwise); the problem arises when the fish for sale are caught under personal exemption.
Apart of licences, what is really concerning are some native fishing practices, especially gillnets, which indiscriminately target species like sturgeon, wild coho, Stuart salmonids etc. This is a very unsustainable and irresponsable way to harvest fish as the impact on non-targeted species is horrific by the DFOs own studies.
What we really should be boycotting is any fish caught in a river gillnet (whoever was holding the net).
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I work for a major company here in the lower mainland. This morning I received this e-mail (along with about 65 other people) soliciting sockeye salmon purchases. I have edited out the names to protect both the guilty and the innocent..... ::)
"I can get sockeye straight out of the river for the following prices:
Whole $10
Clean $13
Fillet $15
My mother in law just bought a cleaned sockeye in Steveston for $75. If you would like any please let me know how much and have cash to me by week's end as I am going saturday."
When I questioned the individual he insisted that the person he was buying from was a licensed commercial fisherman..... Apparently ignorance is not only bliss, but can get you some smokin deals!
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My friendly neighbourhood FN sells socks for 10-12 bucks a piece every year.
However, he said prices might go up this year as sporties won't be catching them at all. ::)
Mmmm....sockeye.
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That will sure upset a lot of people if the price goes up. Now the bbers will have a new 'sin' on their head for causing the price to go up after they are labelled as the group which can threaten the soc stock. How funny LOL.
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Btw pretty well all the native boats up this end of the river pack ice and ice their fish down soon as they come out of the net, they aren't going to deliberately spoil the fish, they eat them too.
I have heard the exact opposite from a native in the Hope area. He said a ridiculous amount gets wasted and many use a bathtub to keep their salmon in and when it goes bad they just go catch some more. He also said there was a problem with them not sharing amongst the band members.
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Its gonna be a heyday now with the sporties shutdown,business will be booming for the natives selling socks this yr.
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I will NEVER buy a salmon from FN's !
Not untill our government treats all user groups as one.
We all fish, or no one fishes.
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Natives still own the land and waterways! It has never been sold! The Royal Proclamation of 1763 is upheld and affirmed in the 1982 Constitution, charter of rights and freedoms.You guys should carefully read those documents. I buy fish from time to time!
Hotrod
The CROWN owns the waterways and some of the land --hence the name Crown Lands-- and You should read those documents more carefully my fellow fisher ie the Delgamuukw decision
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so you are really certain that even a First nation person need a license to sell fish? Do They? then why are they not required to have a fishing license to fish? and is there an actual quote specificly on this issue or cases that might support your statement, or you are pretty sure anyone would plead guilty by the court of law if they were caught buying fish from a native?
No fishing license is required for any fish caught by 1st Nations people for"Food ,Social, Ceremonial "(FSC) purposes OR for sale with a Commercial license --No Sales License -- No sale-- that's the Law
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Gaffer!
Do you even know who "the crown" is?
Hotrod
all rights reserved with prejudice