Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: miketheflyguy on August 16, 2005, 10:01:44 PM
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Mod: Discussion originated from the Fraser August 16 report (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7568.0).
I don't believe some people >:( It happens where I go on a regular basis....although some people curse at them not to do that LoL.....but I don't understand why some people beach em'.....makes me mad when I hear this as only 92,000 sock's have passed hells gate.....although 1,000,072 have passed mission.....wonder where the 1million went ::)
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thats nuts.. does the counting at mission occur before the vedder and harrison confluence or after?? if its after then we got some major illegal fishing going on!!!
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I don't believe some people >:( It happens where I go on a regular basis....although some people curse at them not to do that LoL.....but I don't understand why some people beach em'.....makes me mad when I hear this as only 92,000 sock's have passed hells gate.....although 1,000,072 have passed mission.....wonder where the 1million went ::)
I dont know if you ever cought a sox in the fraser but they are basicly son of a guns when you try to let them go in the water they are pretty much imposible to releas because they fight soo much you have to drag it out some out to have a chance of removing the hook fast and let it go fast. Im not saying beach it like you do when the seasson is on but still very hard to let them suckers go.
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I don't believe some people >:( It happens where I go on a regular basis....although some people curse at them not to do that LoL.....but I don't understand why some people beach em'.....makes me mad when I hear this as only 92,000 sock's have passed hells gate.....although 1,000,072 have passed mission.....wonder where the 1million went ::)
If the above numbers are credible, then it is a sad scene indeed. With the sport and commercial sectors shut out, FN has to bear all the responsibility for wiping out the fish stock for greed. They cannot blame others. Yes, they will blame the temperature, blab blab blab for the massive die off. But have any shore fishermen witnessed massive number of dead sockeyes floating down the river? Nope! They can fool the uninformed public, but not experienced fishermen. When the sockeyes disappear in the future, they can deflect the responsibility by blaming the white men and the damage they have done to the environment, but never FN themselves.
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Got skunked on the bar rig today near hope.
Had a fish swim thru my legs while I was trying to unsnag my 8 ounce weight when changing locations.
Saw 1 sockeye released in the water, 3 long line releases and 1 spring beached, in a 3 hour span.
Some things to keep in mind when releasing fish:
-A fish out of water is like your head being dunked into water without warning.
If you don't think you can hold your breath that long, remember that the fish can't either.
-Use a soft catch and release net(not the abrasive knotted kind) if you can't manage your rod and the fish at the same time.
-Ask a fellow angler to hold your rod while you release the fish in the water if you don't have a net.
-Revive the fish and let it swim away when its ready.
I understand that sometimes a fish such as sockeye, are so energetic that they can be difficult to release in the water. This is no excuse to beach them so they can shake 'n bake. If you can't fish in an area where you have to release fish and release them properly, don't.
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good reason for DFO to shut the bars right down until the numbers of socs justify a rec. opening.
A dead fish is a dead fish! Flossing socs now isnt much different than FN poaching them, still one less fish for the spawning beds...at least a FN poached fish gets eaten (or sold) unlike the poor soc we heard about above...it porbably died in the river and is now crab bait somewhere.
With the water nearing 20 degrees (apparently an all time high), I ask each flosser out there right now to consider their impact on the sockeye they release. How any socs are being hooked each day right now by Rec anglers, how many ARENT going to spawn because of that...questions people should be considering right now.
Why are people so hungry for springs that they endanger sockeye in the process?
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Why are people so hungry for springs that they endanger sockeye in the process?
Agree.
Last week, when I was trying to tail the sockeye in the water after bringing it in on the bar rod, I thought it was rather difficult because of how slippery it was and how fast it was circling around me (almost comical to watch ::) ). Imagine doing the same thing, with a longer leader.
The sockeye fishery is closed for a reason. DFO intends to reduce sockeye mortality by rec anglers, let's help them to achieve that goal. While some may not agree with the FN openings that are taking place in the waters right now, it doesn't mean we should all be out there disobeying the law and ignoring DFO's request.
Gooey, highest temperature reached last year was 21.5C in mid August, just above the 60 year maximum. The temperature is increasing this year, but it's not as bad as last year.
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:o :o :o wow hope you are right. cause im not fishing till the pinks come in so i stay away from dangering the sockeye that are in the river at this moment :D
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my dad and i and about 20 other fireman, headed up there for 2 days. this is part of what we got. also caught tons of socks, and 1 nice pink,
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/album30/P1010269.jpg)
Coho Cody ;)
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agghh, they didnt work...just click the link to see em'
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/album30
there the last 3 pics ;)
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Hey guys...You all are complaining about how hard it is to release sockeye and how bad it is for them but the way I see it that fish WILL go on to spawn. Think about it, all the crap a fish endures in its life in the ocean and then they have to put up with the Fraser. FN mets, seals, fishermans lines/weights hitting them {and not hooking}. Salmon are a very determined fish and I don't think five minutes of fight will finally be the nail in the coffin. I have personally released five socks this year and didn't even have to touch one with my hands. If you tire them out enough you just use pliers to grab the hook as they swim by, give it a twist, and whola! Just don't let their bellies hit the rocks or they go nuts.
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good catch, coho cody!
where is it though? and seems to me the fish is smiling in the pic....?
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Yap I think the fish is saying, what a relief better caught by hook and line then drift net ;D
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i agree i think they should shut the Fraser down until socks open if they do or at least let them go through without some one beaching them,then re-open river.if people are hooking into socks if your with a friend then maybe he/she should give you a hand in releasing and if your alone then help out a fellow fisherman to make it easier on the both of them,instead of beaching them.
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If you are by yourself could you not just cut the line as close to the hook as possible instead of beaching. Does the acids in them not rust the hook fairly quickly or is this just a fishy legend ???.
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Geez, if this keeps up, we may also lose the chance to target springs by barfishing. Although this method has hooked up a few sockeye this year, there is no question that this is still a rare event, and if imployed the impact on sockeye would be almost zero. When DFO "recomends" that we use selective techniques, it means they are watching and observing how we do....I think we failed that test, and just gave them justification to keep us off the river entirely next year.
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Exactly fishersac....we are being judge for "our" actions...and its not impressive.
Markthefisher...What ever you want to tell yourself to make you feel better about your actions or lighten the load on your conscience, go for it...people like you are going to ignore the facts and hide from the truth to justify their actions....but I for one, will not allow you to spread your BS to other fishers on this site and allow you to make it easier for them to go out and floss too. There is a definite negative impact on sockeye from catch and release!....especailly with the frasers very warm temps.
What do you know about marine biology, fish anatomy, the capabilities of a fish to deal with stress...warm water hold less O2 than cold water...how does that factor into the recovery after a fight and their continued journey, etc, etc, etc.
For a vast majority of a fishes life they are in cold water. They go thru a dramatic biological/physiological change when they hit fresh water...how do you know what your impacts are on these fish you have release. How do you know they survive C&R. DFO tells us otherwise...there is some mortality, no one knows exactly how much or when so where do you get off making such a bold statement.
Unless you have a lot more knowledge regarding the subject than I or the DFO, I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and face up to the fact that you are killing socs by flossing them.
To Coho Cody...you represent the futue of sport fishing, the younger generation. what you do now will shape our sport...do you really need to go out and floss those springs at the expense of "tons" of socs?
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;D nice fish coho cody looked at your gallery and some nice pics in there . glad to see a young guy enjoying this great sport ;D ;D
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PT...your comment is so short sited. its exactly opposite to what we need to achieve as a group...if we focus on the springs...the socs will fall to the way side.
Yes its great that a young fisher is enjoying our sport but he is doing so with calous regard for the sockeye...and that is wrong.
We cant praise/glorify this spring floss fishery when it hurts the sockeye soooooo much.
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I suggest if you can't release your fish safely and you figure that fishes life is worth more than the cost of a 50 cent hook,just break it off and tie a new one on. We should all be clear that snagging or flossing was introduced as a way to harvest sockeye when they were plentiful.Supposedly we are all going after springs which are not shy of bar rigs with spin 'n glos and in my opinion should not be snagged.
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good reason for DFO to shut the bars right down until the numbers of socs justify a rec. opening.
A dead fish is a dead fish! Flossing socs now isnt much different than FN poaching them, still one less fish for the spawning beds...at least a FN poached fish gets eaten (or sold) unlike the poor soc we heard about above...it porbably died in the river and is now crab bait somewhere.
With the water nearing 20 degrees (apparently an all time high), I ask each flosser out there right now to consider their impact on the sockeye they release. How any socs are being hooked each day right now by Rec anglers, how many ARENT going to spawn because of that...questions people should be considering right now.
Why are people so hungry for springs that they endanger sockeye in the process?
Thats a simple one ,we are sportfishermen and we have the urge to catch fish. Plus a spring is a fight of a life time and its still early for the whites:P
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Some guys acted like there 4 years old on this site ::) By the way good job cody .
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and its still early for the whites:P
I got my first white on july 2nd last year. By this time the mix should be about 50/50 if not more in favour of the whites.
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we caught an 18lb white spring on monday at grassy,1 sockeye was caught and released,we saw
1 other spring 28lbs caught and 2 sockeyes(c&r).
this was my first time flossing,had to go try it,after shooting my mouth off,calling it snagging.i went with my regular fishin bud,and a friend of his who guides on the fraser,we went in his sled.
at first was a little uncomfortable using a leader that long,i didn t hook anything so i don t feel so bad.the guide caught both fish(of course),and i unhooked them(and netted the spring)and to my
surprise both were hooked inside the mouth,which was a surprise to me,i doubt i will ever do it again,being a vegetarian,i don t need fish for meat,and fish mostly for the fun and to be outdoors.
should mention i do eat seafood on occasion.this is just my 2 cents.
we saw at least 5 dead sockeyes floating by,(which made me feel even worse for trying bb).cheers.
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Hey Roe KID...Are the 4 year olds the guys who go out an floss countless sockeye in the hopes that they will eventually hook one spring?
Or perhaps they're the guys not mature enuff to treat our prescious resource with the respect it deserves?
Just curious KID...maybe you would like to clarify your statement ;)
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Yes i will clarify my statement ;) My point had nothing to do with people flossing sockeye. My point is that some members on this site get a little to carried away and dont realize this is supposed to be a site where we share our reports and talk about fishing. Not where we start bad mouthing at others because they took a sockeye out of water and cause a big scrum with others. Think about that one bud. ;)
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and its still early for the whites:P
I got my first white on july 2nd last year. By this time the mix should be about 50/50 if not more in favour of the whites.
Pardon my ignorace ::) SOME whites come in with the reds but its still a little early for 50/50 chance i think.
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come to think of it,, this post was intended as a fishing report.. to put u on track and tell u if its worth going. i dont think i remember starting a debate??
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This really isnt a flossing debate...I am simply trying to get people to consider their actions when out the flossing springs yet hooking more socs than anything. If people come to this report page and reconsider there plans because of the dialog here then great.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against harvesting sockeye thru flossing...I am dieing for an opening just like the rest of you...But I wont head out trying to floss a spring if it means even possibly hooking a sockeye that I cant retain and which may die because of my actions.
These people out flossing (both young and old) are having a negative impact on sockeye stocks and our fishery in general. As there is a definite mortality rate for all those C&R socs...regrdless of whether they are handled with care or not, the simple act of being played in could be too much for many of these fish.
You guys who want to head out there and floss (when DFO has asked you not to), thats your perogative. But I am determined to at least challenge you to think about your actions before you go out flossing. Scruffy (who posted reports from pegleg - and who I assume was flossing) has since stated (on this thread) he thinks they should shut the fraser down. Pepsi Trev has stated similiar sentiments...good for you guys, I dont know if what I said made a difference to you, but good on ya all the same.
All of you who continue to floss while the socs are closed...well, you know the cost of what you are doing (less socs to the spawning beds) so frankly I put you in the same boat with the poachers. Tight lines, hope you enjoy "the fight of a life time" regardless of the consequnece.
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coho cody..good on ya kid! its nice to see a boy as young as you get involved in fishing. i can tell by that smile on your face it was a pretty good thrill. you have shown your fishing prowess to us many times and i know you released every sockeye carefully back. The roe kid and coho cody you guys keep up the good work. AHEM! as for our resident fisheries biologist..please move your guilty statements to the discussion area where it belongs.and......try to relax man. the natives do more harm to sockeye in one year than this young lad will ever do in his lifetime trying to catch springs.
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coho cody..good on ya kid! its nice to see a boy as young as you get involved in fishing. i can tell by that smile on your face it was a pretty good thrill. you have shown your fishing prowess to us many times and i know you released every sockeye carefully back. The roe kid and coho cody you guys keep up the good work. AHEM! as for our resident fisheries biologist..please move your guilty statements to the discussion area where it belongs.and......try to relax man. the natives do more harm to sockeye in one year than this young lad will ever do in his lifetime trying to catch springs.
Couldent of said it better why are we complaining to each other about our methods that do the least harm when the FN fishery has the highest cost on the fish.
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Here is a link to see the insignificance of our 'damage' to the sockeye. I don't buy the DFO statements when they let the natives harvest socs by potent driftnets weeks in & weeks out. If conservation is at risk, those nets should not be allowed. Then there are the test fisheries. If the stock is that low, the test fisheries are taking them by thousands daily, and they should be stopped to preserve every fish. See this link:
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fos2_Internet/Testfish/rptCSbD.cfm?stat=CPE
This is where the effort of trying to save the sockeyes should be directed. If stock is dangerously low, all fisheries should be stopped like the effort to protect the Thompson coho. In that case, even bar-fishing with C/R is not allowed, as they can catch the wrong fish too.
Contrary to DFO preaching of gloom & doom, many fishers report lots of socs, rivaling even the best years. There are also very few dead socs drifting by. While I respect some forum members' concern for fish mortality, there are just not the evidence at the river. Even if there are a few dead fish drifting down, we cannot rule out that they die out of net suffocation by the nets in the canyon section of the Fraser, or by high temperature, or by the drift nets of the natives, perhaps by seal bites. Therefore should we hammer the poor, long suffering sporties to death with guilt & all sorts of damning reasons while he/she is trying to have a good day break from the office, fishing with only a rod & a hook? If you buy DFO's story, the efforts to save the socs should be directed to have them stop the FN, even test fisheries, 'cause these already took tens of thousands of socs, and will keep on taking them by untold numbers, while sporties's official record is zero.
So, to the BBers who want to fish springs selectively, just cast way, way out there in the strongest flow with heavy betties, and don't drift past 45 degrees. Yes, BBing can be selective. I didn't even hit 1 soc in the last trip.
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Coho Cody, funfish, floater, etc, etc...I know that not everyone will care to hear what I have to say. So do this one thing for me, ask yourself this question:
Who on Fishing With Rod do I really respect. Which persons from FRW gives large amounts of their personal time to protecting and improving our treasured sport. For me personally, I would have to give huge respect to guys like Rod and Chris Gadsen.
Each person will have a certain individual who they can really identify with and respect. So figure out who that is for each one of you.
Now send them a PM, ask them what they think of flossing in general, ask them what they think of flossing springs when the socs are closed and stocks are weak. Ask them what they would do if DFO requested that they don't floss the fraser.
like I said, not everyone will acknowledge what I have to say...so find that person who you respect and get their feedback on the current environment...maybe you will be surprised by what they say. Heck maybe I would be!
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I spent some time with a few of the DFO hatchery staff in the north last year. These are the guys who do the front line work and from what they were seeing and hearing from thier collegues from the spawning grounds it would be tough to justify any type of fishery. The most notible conversation included how some smaller Fraser feeder streams didn't get ONE returning sockeye. I just thought I would pass that little peice of info on.
Even if the sockeye are closed, it is important that there are sportfishermen on the river, to act (even if it is not the intent) as observers. There is a native lobby which is working hard to have the river closed competely to sportfishermen while they are fishing - less eyes watching the river.
Whatever method you choose to fish with, bring a camera.
Just my 2 cents,
Justin.
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Hmmmm, that is a good point Justin. Guys on the water (either BB or BF), is probably acting as a deterent to some poaching. So it can be said that that presence itself has some positive effect on the harvesting of Sockeye.
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myself and the guys that i fish with always have a camera on hand. And it is not just to get pictures of our fish. It also helps to identify illigally caught fish weather it be fn or not.
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Coho Cody, funfish, floater, etc, etc...I know that not everyone will care to hear what I have to say. So do this one thing for me, ask yourself this question:
Who on Fishing With Rod do I really respect. Which persons from FRW gives large amounts of their personal time to protecting and improving our treasured sport. For me personally, I would have to give huge respect to guys like Rod and Chris Gadsen.
Each person will have a certain individual who they can really identify with and respect. So figure out who that is for each one of you.
Now send them a PM, ask them what they think of flossing in general, ask them what they think of flossing springs when the socs are closed and stocks are weak. Ask them what they would do if DFO requested that they don't floss the fraser.
like I said, not everyone will acknowledge what I have to say...so find that person who you respect and get their feedback on the current environment...maybe you will be surprised by what they say. Heck maybe I would be!
Im sorry but i didnt really understand the point of what you said if its you find out the ethics behind floosing i can make up my own mind about it and i dont need to ask anyone plus i dont have a boat so i cant bar fish if i did i wouldent floss but thats life and you cant have it all.
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weel put floater I to do not have a boat nor the bucks to by different gear for when people do not want you to fish a certain way. I wish I did but reality is I do not. Just play them quick release them safely. Fish with a shorter leader.
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Floater, you don't need a boat to barfish, there are many barfishing area's which have shore access. If you'd like some help finding a place to fish from shore PM me.
Funfish, I challenge you to find me one example of a seasoned sockeye fisherman who can claim this rivals one of the better years. Although I personally haven't been BB'ing latley I've still been out on the river and have watched/talked to many people on the river and I can tell you that either the fish aren't here in big numbers OR the people who choose to BB for springs are green horms and can't fish.
Oh ya, and for the reccord, yes I do fish for sockeye, as soon as it opens I will be the first one standing in line but until that happens, leave the BB's at home.
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Biffchan, the last 10 days or so have seen large schools of sockeyes in sockeye bars. Some friends have booked vacation ready for the sockeye fishery by camping in upper Fraser areas. They now had to turn to spring fishing. Most of them are hard-nosed, seasoned BB rods and they are not internet-active like me. I had close connections with them via cell phone while they are on the river, trying to determine for myself whether it is worthwhile to drive up there after work to try for a spring. Their reports are real & credible.
Personally, even though I did not hook into a sockeye in my last trip, my fishing partner, a relatively green rod (Auroa, a FWR member) drifting closer in, hooked into 10 socs in a deeper spot closer to shore. He reeled each in quickly and released them in the water properly. The fish were mostly strong & robust. He proclaimed he never had such success. Most fishermen in the bars admitted that sockeye fishing, even as a by catch, is way, way better than the last 2 years. Since I did not want to connect with socs, I motioned to move to another location in the bar where I know the water springs will likely hold. There I hooked into my spring which I reported in the last fishing report I made. There you have it, I don't make statements based on innuendo, they are from real fishermen currently fishing, not guessing. By the way, my friends reported spring fishing really slow in the last 2 days.
Gooey, whether you believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for you. You obviously is a seasoned rod with deep knowledge and contribute your knowledge to the fishing public by your huge # of posts. I salute your unselfish sharing of experiences.
But I hope you respect that every body has a different way looking at things. We came from different upbringings, ethnic groups, education or native countries. A person coming from places where famines or starvations are rampant will view fishing very differently as local Canadians. To the rest of the food-starving world, seeing Canadian fishermen turning their back on millions of fish, even a legal sockeye fishery, because of the mere argument of fishing approaches or ethics, is something difficult to fathom. So, who has the high moral ground to justify their position in the wide spectrum of human morality about fishing? On one side you have PETA implying us as cruel criminals to animals, on the other side you have the poachers who can't care less about animals. I say forget about disputing on the point of ethics. As long as there is no announced closure for springs, each fisher should be respected to his/her own judgement of whether he fishes for them or not. Trying to ridicule them or insult them with crimes or guilt is counter-productive to unity among fishermen. Why not turn your anger to DFO, FN, and the 'real' poachers who took millions of socs year after year with potent drift nets.
While the official record of sockeye retention is zero for sporties, but over 310,000 for FN & 60,000 for assessment fisheries (who gets the $ for these fish?), and with more FN openings forth-coming, don't you think your push to save every sockeye, noble as it is, is finding the wrong target. To so easily crown your fellow fishers on this forum who choose to BB for springs as 'equivalent to FN poachers' is really uncalled for and imflamatory.
As far as Chris & Rod. Well guys, these two are rare gems of the sport fishing community, no doubt about it. Their unselfish dedication to the cause of fishing is highly admirable. But does this mean all forum members have to fish like them? Well, to be like Chris, you need to be retired, living close to fishing paradise of Chilliwack, possess a ML craft, and have a wife who can tolerate not seeing him all the time while he is fighting for the cause of fishing......Hmmm, he is a rarity, too hard to find in real life. ;D
To be like Rod, you need to have a fishing girlfriend, host a fishing site, take lots of kids fishing & have unlimited patience..... Hmmm, another rarity again. ;D
OK, I will try their Fraser fishing style. But yuk, I hate to doze off in a chair while fishing for Fraser salmon, or wandering around to collect stones. ;D I like to exercise my arm muscles all day. ;D So in that sense, their style of fishing is too hard to emulate for me. Me, what a bummer fisherman I am, choosing pain over comfort. :) No offense to BF, but it takes a certain personality to like it.
Honestly, we respect these two gents not just because of their contribution to fishing, but also because they show utmost tolerance & respect for others who choose to fish differently but legally from them. Even though they stand firm on their fishing approaches, they have never been known to throw out inappropriate statements or name-callings towards others who don't happen to fish the same way. They do it by gentle pursuasion, information & education. For that I applaud them. :D Unity among the brotherhood of fishermen, and uniting us to fight the greater evil or harm to fish stock (uncontrolled FN nettings) is way more important in their mind than squabbling about minor issues.
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I'm a rare gem... :-[ :o
The other gem is on his way back from some spring jack fishing. ;)
Flossers debating with flossers, that's what happens when you keep the sockeye fishery closed. ;D Very good points from all sides, and the mods appreciate you all for keeping it civil. :)
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Funfish, good post.
While less sockeye than expected, there are lots in the river. Even DFO says in the releasse today that summer runs will exceed 3 million fish. Not a huge run, but bigger than many years where sockeye sport fishing was opened. Also I expect that it will end up being a fair amount higher. The sport fishery as is, even if opened, would not be a significant factor on the sockeye in comparison to their numbers, and to the netting going on. If you are really concerned about the sockeye call DFO with a push to reduce the netting.
Sport fishermen need to be united. Personally I wouldn't care much if they never opened sockeye fishign again. But if you argue to keep sockeye closed, and ban BBing, and I argue that catch and release of wild steelhead should be shutdown, and another guy says there should be a bait ban due to mortality, another says we should only flyfish, and another says sturgeon fishing should be shut down and.... well pretty soon we'll all be at home watching tv instead of fishing. On the other end if there is a genuine real conservation concern, there is no doubt the fishery should be closed.
Just my 2 cents.
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not short but well said funfish
i wonder how much ;D a halo weighs ?? :o
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Why are people so hungry for springs that they endanger sockeye in the process?
wasn't it you and bp who posted pictures of reds caught on the vedder?...about 3 weeks ago?.... didn't you also state that you managed to hook on to a couple of sox in the process?
for someone who's so critical of others, and claims to know so much... you sure don't know when you're sticking your foot in your mouth.
...and just in case i don't have my facts straight about you catching sox, the fact is... you where targeting springs, while there were sox in the river (a smaller system, than the fraser river) :-X.....and don't try to justify it by saying, 'you weren't bb or flossing'....because we both know that's irrelevant.
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Blaydrunner, there's a huge difference between catching sockeye in the vedder and the fraser. The Vedder runs considerably cooler than the Fraser which means way less stress on the fish. As well, the Vedder fish right now are spawning in the tribs of Chilliwack lake, those fraser fish right now are bound for the Cariboo. Lastly, early fraser sockeye are suffering from supposed low numbers, whereas the Vedder river socks are doing fine. And don't give me any of that endangered Cultas Lake sockeye B.S. those guys aren't around till late fall. The first one passed the fence this past week.
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Blaydrunner, there's a huge difference between catching sockeye in the vedder and the fraser. The Vedder runs considerably cooler than the Fraser which means way less stress on the fish. As well, the Vedder fish right now are spawning in the tribs of Chilliwack lake, those fraser fish right now are bound for the Cariboo. Lastly, early fraser sockeye are suffering from supposed low numbers, whereas the Vedder river socks are doing fine. And don't give me any of that endangered Cultas Lake sockeye B.S. those guys aren't around till late fall. The first one passed the fence this past week.
see, that's the problem... now we're getting into symantics. i'm talking principle. all i'm saying is, if you truly believe in a cause, you don't condradict yourself by doing something wrong, just because its 'the lesser of two evils'....further more, he was the same guy preaching about bb and flossing, yet he hasn't had a problem with selling betties to anyone with $$... knowing full well, sockeye is closed for retention.
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The Vedder runs considerably cooler than the Fraser which means way less stress on the fish.... Lastly, early fraser sockeye are suffering from supposed low numbers, whereas the Vedder river socks are doing fine.
i'm aware of the situation with the fraser run...but that information comes from the same people who estimated a banner run for this year.....the same people who claim the endangerment of the species...and the same people who just extended the fn fishery.