Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: roeman on October 08, 2025, 06:55:14 PM
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I moved back to the area in 2019 but since then always fished the Harrison River with a boat in the fall. Just sold my boat an thought lets give the Vedder a shot. I have heard about it but I thought I can find a little run and make a few casts. People crowded on from Yarrow down to Keith Wilson bridge so walked the shore line crossing in the shallows and amazed at the crowds. Found a small slot against the bank between two crowded areas and started casting in the early morning. Hooked a hatchery coho with in the first couple minutes then another soon after. Landing the fish I noticed 4 guys walking down from the overcrowded bar above. While dealing with the fish and securing both in the gravel with a stick, I go to return to casting and there are 4 guys standing in a small area and crowded me out. Stood between the four and thought to myself they will move on in a couple minutes. Could see the coho going by and they would rip the float two or three times every drift. Two of guys that were right below me actually ran up above the other two and cast at the fish that had swam thru. Hooked one more and left after only fishing for 45 minutes. I realize its a busy river but I chose to find a small area away from everyone and to have a good time. Could not take it anymore, while cleaning the three fish I picked up as many baseball size rocks I could put in my vest, went back to the run and stood in from of the four guys and thru at least 20 rocks into the run. Smiled and walked away. When did it become acceptable for this type of behavior, People were actually walking into areas carrying lawn chairs.
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Getting worse every year.
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"picked up as many baseball size rocks I could put in my vest, went back to the run and stood in from of the four guys and thru at least 20 rocks into the run. Smiled and walked away. " ::) ::)
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Solutions to all of this are obvious but few would surrender their turn at the hog trough. It's our 'right' as Canadians after all.
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I don't no if its different this year but I've seen comments like the OP almost daily on social media.
Vedder is a meat fishery tho IMO, if your looking for peace and tranquility there is other flows, with better and less people. Just might not walk home with a fish and certainly not three.
Q rods photos' of him fishing up river with no one around and a beach full of fish lol
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It's our 'right' as Canadians after all.
lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
I also went does the rabbit hole of inherent rights of first nations vs citizens of Canada. I think I broke AI
it ended with
"this is one of the most complex and contested areas of Canadian law"
"The tension you perceive is at the heart of reconciliation efforts in Canada. On one hand, the government recognizes that Indigenous rights are inherent, pre-dating the state. On the other, the state maintains that inherent rights are not absolute and must be implemented within the Canadian constitutional framework, including being subject to justifiable infringement. For many Indigenous peoples, the fact that their inherent rights must be continually proven in a colonial legal system is the very contradiction at the root of the struggle"
"Your question highlights the central paradox of the relationship between the Canadian state and First Nations: The inherent rights of Indigenous peoples are affirmed within a legal system that was imposed upon them by a colonizing power"
"In short, your observation captures the core issue: A system based on rights granted by the state has had to figure out how to incorporate pre-existing, inherent rights. The result is a complex legal and political reality where First Nations exercise authority, but are still ultimately nested within the Canadian constitutional order:
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lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
I also went does the rabbit hole of inherent rights of first nations vs citizens of Canada. I think I broke AI
it ended with
"this is one of the most complex and contested areas of Canadian law"
"The tension you perceive is at the heart of reconciliation efforts in Canada. On one hand, the government recognizes that Indigenous rights are inherent, pre-dating the state. On the other, the state maintains that inherent rights are not absolute and must be implemented within the Canadian constitutional framework, including being subject to justifiable infringement. For many Indigenous peoples, the fact that their inherent rights must be continually proven in a colonial legal system is the very contradiction at the root of the struggle"
"Your question highlights the central paradox of the relationship between the Canadian state and First Nations: The inherent rights of Indigenous peoples are affirmed within a legal system that was imposed upon them by a colonizing power"
"In short, your observation captures the core issue: A system based on rights granted by the state has had to figure out how to incorporate pre-existing, inherent rights. The result is a complex legal and political reality where First Nations exercise authority, but are still ultimately nested within the Canadian constitutional order:
Lol.... even AI can see the stupidity and lack of any common sense or logic in the socialistic BS Canadian policies of how we negotiate with the First Nations. Oh wait.... I forgot the governments of Canada don't actually negotiate with them. They just rob Canadian taxpayers and give the First Nations everything they ask for on a silver platter.
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lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
oh yeah and so I included the 'right' in quotes. Unlike the UK where common law originated, Canada has for the most part (Quebec excepted and some Maritime Provinces to an extent), held the resources of fish, game and gathering as part of the commons like air and water and so with, some limitations (ie licensing) are available to everyone. Certainly makes sense when population was low and many people lived hand and mouth lives in the wilderness or at least far away from the resources available in cities. It's getting sort of different now with high population and industrial enhancement of wild fish populations but people are still very attached to it and see it as part of the country's heritage.
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
We need way more enforcement + licencing exams. People have gone crazy. Obviously, the food prices have also gone way up, which doesn't help
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
We need way more enforcement + licencing exams. People have gone crazy. Obviously, the food prices have also gone way up, which doesn't help
that's too bad and you shouldn't write off the river because of a bad experience or 2. I have had some great experiences on the river. Some of the places that take some walking can often provide you with the elbow room you desire. Another approach is to fish the should seasons - the start or the end of the run. Chum and coho can be available into late November and even December. By then the crowds have long migrated to other river with later runs and even hung their tackle up for the year. Expect fewer fish and mostly wild ones but you'll learn a lot about the river and how to fish it whatever your tackle choice.
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Fish later in the season when their freezers are full. ;D
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Huge uptick in angler effort in the last 3 years since a lot of Asian fishing communities have formed new anglers within them, I’m Asian so I know what’s going on. These groups are super hungry for fish. I used to be able to fish some shady early Cap coho spots almost always alone, now there’s 5-10 new rods on any given day. They are turned into fishermen by their friends and find spots by word of mouth so all the social media doesn’t have much effect.
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
The vast majority of CV salmon anglers are drifting fishing with floats and tend to congregate in predictable places. It's almost a herd mentality. They only know how to fish one way and feel comfortable (even safe) going where everyone else is.
I would even say that many of the anglers lack an understanding of fish behaviour, lack the skills to read the water and to adapt, and lack the confidence to venture beyond those predictable places.
Heck, many of us have been there. That certainly described me early on too.
The trick is to explore the river, be prepared to walk, and fish different techniques in water that drift fishers tend to overlook. Doing that can produce outstanding results in relative solitude in some pretty places. Above Vedder Crossing bridge, there is no Rotary trail and the river strays away from the paved road providing good opportunity to get away from the herd and find your own water.
And, have others have mentioned, once the initial coho fever subsides and the weather is cold and wet, and the crowds migrate to other systems north of the Fraser, the crowds on the CV will thin out and there can still be excellent fishing into late November,
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I have just retired, and have looked forward to now flexibility of fishing through the week. I have always fished away from the crowds for the last 30 years and for the most part have been able to fish with alot of good fisherman. This last coupe of weeks I thought i would head down to the canal to just explore and see what was really happening in that part of the system.
My findings are nothing but upsetting. The amount of people dragging fish across the rocks, sticking hands in gills, fish being passed around for a hero shot only to be realeased because the fish is not a hatchery or they simply don't want the fish is staggering.
People I feel are not getting the message or simply just don't care. I feel at times it's the latter. I must mention, I did have many conversations with many of the people, and many of them just don't really seem to care.
The question I have is what can be done? Education, people who Indentify with some authority other than Conservation of Fishery officers.
I know we can just ignore the problem and go fish somewhere else, but I don't feel that is the solution. Alot of good people have put countless hours into our salmon habitat to see it go to waste is so frustrating.
How bad will this be in the next 10 years if change doesn't happen soon?
Just my rant. I know change is hard.
Rodney thanks for all you do and all your hard work on getting the message out there, I just wish more could be done.
Take care
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‘Combat fishing’ on the Vedder is about the same as the Kenai river in Alaska. The difference is in Alaska there are also some food fishing opportunities. Treble hooks and dip nets are part of the process. I don’t think the Kenai is included at least during prime sockeye season. Considering the Vedder River system is mostly ’stocked’ with white springs and hatchery cohos perhaps a ‘food’ fishery especially for the springs is worth testing out. There could be a knowledge test as part of that license that also teaches sport fishing etiquette.
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
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SEAs come from countries with destroyed rivers and are now doing the sane thing to the rivers here.
Like some other said, up the licence prices, mandate licence exams, and vastly increase patrols. Hell, give ticketing power to some avid anglers that need to pass a stringent exam to get this power. I see snaggers a lot and would love to rip them a new one
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
You haven’t been around nearly long enough to make these kinds of statements.
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
Are you trying to imply that kasnaggers are the first group to only fish the vedder to limit out? I thought that’s what everyone is there to do?
Also nice use of ai lol
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
It is hard to comment without getting too harsh. After this group was brought to my attention I have been following them and I love their enthusiasm for the sport. They are attacked by racist fools like the OP constantly and it just rolls off of their backs. From what I can see their worst trait is that they go fishing too often and I, like so many, am jealous. But their best trait is the ability to troll the sheep very, very effectively as evidenced by the OP. I am pretty sure that the first rule of poaching and snagging is that you don't brag and post your picture on the internet.
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I saw something that is a new low for Vedder - completely insane.
Few days ago, I was at upper canal in the morning where I saw anglers decently spaced out (I am talking atleast 20 feet of distance). Weather was sunny and you could clearly see the fish travel up and down. after some time 4-5 anglers showed up and squeezed themselves in. One of them started shouting and running behind the school of coho and started snagging them left and right - soon others who came together with him started doing the same, they all were screaming and running up and down following the school, snagging them with long leaders !! WTF?!? Utter disregard of other fellow anglers too, they would run and stand in front of you, cast right in if there was a school, snag and if they lose it, they run again !!
I have never seen people running behind the fish on Vedder. I wouldnt even call this harvest fishery, its buffoonery.
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I find it interesting when people get all strung out over the 'Kasnaggers' page.
They are totally trolling people and people take the bait and get riled up.
I've personally watched Jay fish and I have seen that he short floats roe and soft beads exactly the same way I do. He isn't snagging fish.
People are just jealous that he gets his fish most of the time.
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I find it interesting when people get all strung out over the 'Kasnaggers' page.
They are totally trolling people and people take the bait and get riled up.
I've personally watched Jay fish and I have seen that he short floats roe and soft beads exactly the same way I do. He isn't snagging fish.
People are just jealous that he gets his fish most of the time.
Did you turn on the audio? You can really hear how loud they are — it’s something different in the culture.
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I can remember a time way back in the 20th Century when a little guy was just starting to post about his love of fishing. He had a funny accent (Australian?) and didn't fit the picture of an outdoorsman because of his heritage and he was constantly abused by a racist crowd. Hell, he introduced me to a the presence of something called a Pea Mouthed Chub. But he persevered and made a very big impact on the BC fishing scene as he incorporated tech with passion and even some of the racists came to appreciate his efforts. Fast forward to today where a new crowd of tech savvy non-white fishermen are making waves in the local fishing scene and on the site that the funny little guy soared the same barriers are being put up. I find this to be so ironic. And, just for the record, there have been lots of guys fishing in a manner that is less than sporting for a long, long time on Lower Mainland rivers. The big difference is merely that gumboots, spark plugs and trebles (the old-timers will get this) have been replaced with modern and more subtle methods. But targeting Asians is still popular with the bigots. Try looking at the Kasnaggers as an avid, enthusiastic bunch of young people who will help keep this sport relevant in the future. I spend quite a bit other time camping/fishing in BC and I am in my 70's and often the average age in camp. There are no young people there. We need youth to get out in the wild to preserve the resources or they will end up being paved over and fishing, hunting and camping will be history. And, yes, these guys/gals look different than us but we looked different than those we displaced.
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Said it before, GordJ, the voice of reason ...
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Be careful what you wish for. When Kasnaggers rush into campsite, there will be a whole new level. You probably won’t find a vacant spot, and quiet time will be hard to come by.
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Thanks for those genuine and heartfelt words Gord and there is not much to disagree with in them.
I would say that I did not see anything racist sentiment in Roe Man's post either overt or implied. He didn't identify any particular group other than those who tote lawn chairs to the riverside. BTW that occasionally includes me and I don't find it offensive.
Prejudice by experienced anglers who have lived here has a long and checkered history. I carry some of those prejudices. Those are often not based on race. Like Roe Man I have been "crowded out" after trying to find a small place to myself on a crowded river. Happened to me many times and one case was years ago - perhaps 30. I had gone to the Chilliwack in early November, often when the crowds thinned a bit. After some driving and walking I found such a place mid-river where there was a bank side log jam and some moderately deep frog water. I could see some coho in there. I tied on a mickey finn and hooked a few coho, a nice buck, a hatchery doe and a smaller hatch male of a few pounds. By that time some younger guys were lining up around that small backwater. A few more clambered onto the logs. The salmon in the pool moved into the logs. Game over! I was happy with my catch and headed home. By the the way Gord those guys looked like me, they might have been 5 or 10 years younger but they were white! They spoke pure Canadian eh! It's an old story. I could tell many more but who cares.
I can remember a time way back in the 20th Century when a little guy was just starting to post about his love of fishing. He had a funny accent (Australian?) and didn't fit the picture of an outdoorsman because of his heritage and he was constantly abused by a racist crowd. Hell, he introduced me to a the presence of something called a Pea Mouthed Chub. But he persevered and made a very big impact on the BC fishing scene as he incorporated tech with passion and even some of the racists came to appreciate his efforts. Fast forward to today where a new crowd of tech savvy non-white fishermen are making waves in the local fishing scene and on the site that the funny little guy soared the same barriers are being put up. I find this to be so ironic. And, just for the record, there have been lots of guys fishing in a manner that is less than sporting for a long, long time on Lower Mainland rivers. The big difference is merely that gumboots, spark plugs and trebles (the old-timers will get this) have been replaced with modern and more subtle methods. But targeting Asians is still popular with the bigots. Try looking at the Kasnaggers as an avid, enthusiastic bunch of young people who will help keep this sport relevant in the future. I spend quite a bit other time camping/fishing in BC and I am in my 70's and often the average age in camp. There are no young people there. We need youth to get out in the wild to preserve the resources or they will end up being paved over and fishing, hunting and camping will be history. And, yes, these guys/gals look different than us but we looked different than those we displaced.
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I would say that I did not see anything racist sentiment in Roe Man's post either overt or implied. He didn't identify any particular group other than those who tote lawn chairs to the riverside. BTW that occasionally includes me and I don't find it offensive.
You are absolutely right, I did not mean to include the OP in the description. He, in my opinion, did not include any hint of race. Sorry to suggest that you were included by omission roeman. It was the person who said "Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause." that I would have problem with. WTF,"tough to intimidate"? I have not had the opportunity to meet up with these guys but others that have found them to be respectful and fun to be around. As the busiest river in the province it is nothing new that people complain about crowding. But as someone who has fished as far away as the Bella Coola/Atnarko (where I had a great encounter with some Philippinos from Williams Lake) and the Nass/Meziadin in the last year I can say that fishing the Vedder is pretty darned good in spite of the crowds.
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I am seeing lots of FB posts where people are driving 5+ hours to fish the Vedder and posting pictures of themselves. Instead of the 2 Million potential fisherman, we're now looking at 4 million. At least it's not as bad as New York. Once the run slows down and the chances of catching decreases, then those really long trips may not be as worth while to make.
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I first fished the Vedder in the early to mid 80s and it was crowded then though the average distance between anglers on the prime runs was 10 to 20 feet. A few years ago some commented that the upswing in pressure was also associated with closures on the Fraser and the Thompson but no doubt population increase particularly in the Chilliwack and Abbotsford area is the major factor. Both the City and the local real estate people promoted the area partly based on the angling opportunities in the river.
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Still maintain that they should close the Canal to fishing altogether, whats happening there now is not considered fishing .
Agree with others here about the behaviour , I cant even drive by an look at this gong show without becoming angry .
They should even institute a aptitude test about the species and hold a draw similiar to hunting .
Enforcement is almost impossible with the lack of resources and sheer number of violators .
This resource must not be wasted on people who have no respect for it .
The hatchery workers go through a lot of work to produce these fish plus the time and effort that the fish take to mature in the ocean to become this great resource .
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Still maintain that they should close the Canal to fishing altogether, whats happening there now is not considered fishing .
This is the dumbest thing I've read on the internet this morning and we're barely past 9AM.
I cant even drive by an look at this gong show without becoming angry .
And of course the follow up of what the real underlying issue is.
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well DFO has certainly closed sections of the Vedder/Chilliwack in the face of flagrant snagging of wild populations of sockeye let alone what's happened on the Fraser so I don't think it's unreasonable or dumb to suggest closures. Problem is those people will just move to some other open part of the river.
Much of this is of "our" own making. The massive enhancement far beyond what's needed to support tidewater and freshwater fisheries of all type plus the over promotion of those same fisheries. It's no longer a 'sport' in the old sense of the word and just a money making machine.
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Still maintain that they should close the Canal to fishing altogether, whats happening there now is not considered fishing .
While I can't fish with extreme crowds, that like saying close Coquihalla because of the excess speeding that is happening. I really don't think it is about education, I would like to see enforcement everyday on the rivers, 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear confiscated, fines would more than pay their salary . No second chances. Assuming most people get their licenses online. Have a couple of statements at the bottom before you can hit the purchase button that you must respond to. I will not snag fish, keep more fish than my limit, I will keep fish in the water as much as possible, and what ever other statement they want to add. Only then the purchase bottom is activated. Problem solved. No excuses for stupidity. Education is too slow and people don't care. Would love the here a person go home and explain to their other half that they got a 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear taken away. Fixed in one season..
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While I can't fish with extreme crowds, that like saying close Coquihalla because of the excess speeding that is happening. I really don't think it is about education, I would like to see enforcement everyday on the rivers, 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear confiscated, fines would more than pay their salary . No second chances. Assuming most people get their licenses online. Have a couple of statements at the bottom before you can hit the purchase button that you must respond to. I will not snag fish, keep more fish than my limit, I will keep fish in the water as much as possible, and what ever other statement they want to add. Only then the purchase bottom is activated. Problem solved. No excuses for stupidity. Education is too slow and people don't care. Would love the here a person go home and explain to their other half that they got a 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear taken away. Fixed in one season..
those are very good suggestions.
In the GVRD if you have an indoor wood burning appliance or fireplace you now have to agree to a best practices agreement to use it. Not much different and little or now "education" required. Easy peasy.
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And of course the follow up of what the real underlying issue is.
I’m curious what you think the real underlying issue is, SB?
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I’m curious what you think the real underlying issue is, SB?
Do I really need to spell it out for you?
He says it makes him angry when he 'drives by'. I'm not sure how good his eyesight is or how bad mine is, but there is no way I can tell from 'driving by' the Canal that people are snagging. Although it's probably a 'correct' assumption....it's still an assumption. 'Driving by', is NOT going to confirm whether someone down there is snagging or not.
As for the 'underlying issue', life is WAY TOO SHORT to get 'angry' over what 'might' be taking place on the Chilliwack/Vedder. For him it shows a 'lack of self control' as well as a desire to 'be in control' of an impossible situation. He can't control the snagging or whatever else is going on down there... so it makes him angry. Not sure about you, but there is no way, I'm going to let a crowded river make me angry or ruin my day as I drive by. It is what it is.
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While I can't fish with extreme crowds, that like saying close Coquihalla because of the excess speeding that is happening. I really don't think it is about education, I would like to see enforcement everyday on the rivers, 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear confiscated, fines would more than pay their salary . No second chances. Assuming most people get their licenses online. Have a couple of statements at the bottom before you can hit the purchase button that you must respond to. I will not snag fish, keep more fish than my limit, I will keep fish in the water as much as possible, and what ever other statement they want to add. Only then the purchase bottom is activated. Problem solved. No excuses for stupidity. Education is too slow and people don't care. Would love the here a person go home and explain to their other half that they got a 1000 dollar fine and all fishing gear taken away. Fixed in one season..
Well said, although the text I bolded 'should' be enough.
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This is exactly how I imagine the FN have felt about us for the last few centuries. We came in and destroyed whole runs with our pollution and our dams. For those of us that are white, we left Europe in very bad shape, with only a few fish left. I was just reading about how some of the first settlers used dynamite to kill herring in Burrard Inlet ffs. I'm sure it made the FN very angry to see us mistreat the fish.
It's easy to get angry about overcrowding and unsportsmanlike fishing, but as Superbobby said, life is too short. With education and patience we can teach the newbies what it took us generations to learn: that the fish are precious and deserve our respect.
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This is exactly how I imagine the FN have felt about us for the last few centuries. We came in and destroyed whole runs with our pollution and our dams.
OMG, get over it. Its in the past. I had nothing to do with what "white people" did to FN, neither did may parents or grand parents, 150 years of my family tree did nothing. What happened is of course extremely wrong but you can't expect the gov't to continue to give handouts to the future generations of FN. The ones it has affected sure. But that should be the end of it. On the news a couple nights ago was a pow wow at a FN residential school that was being demolished and there were many FN in attendance,, Why??? If I was raped and beaten at a school when I was young that would be the last place I would want to visit, no matter what was happening to the building. Its all for show and media attention. Oh no we were wronged we need more money. Would not be surprised if there are tolls put on highways because FN at one point had a celebration at that spot.
Went for a hike on the Chehalis river yesterday and there was a person in a vehicle sitting there all day just accross the bridge refusing entry to the canyon section. Wonder who paid for that vehicle and who pays the person inside. What a joke. But lets just keep bending over.
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Do I really need to spell it out for you?
I can be quite obtuse. Thanks for the clarification.
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OMG, get over it. Its in the past. I had nothing to do with what "white people" did to FN, neither did may parents or grand parents, [yada yada]
I think his point is now it's fat white guys who are getting replaced...oh don't get mad, get over it guys! Go fish in the interior the lake fishing is fabulous and the lakes are all but absent of Asian anglers! (and white guys too!)
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The last few days, Jay has totally been trolling the Facebook crowd. It's sad how gullible the haters are. He's posting pictures of chum he caught in previous years calling them 'northern Coho', and they are ready to hang him for it. The internet wins this week.
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I think his point is now it's fat white guys who are getting replaced...oh don't get mad, get over it guys! Go fish in the interior the lake fishing is fabulous and the lakes are all but absent of Asian anglers! (and white guys too!)
Don’t bet on it. I just got back from the Atnarko and Bella Coola and there was a group if about 10 Filipinos that had travelled out from Williams Lake. Great bunch to share a campsite with and when we walked into a run they let me go first! Now it may have been because of the bear sighting, I definitely would have been the slowest of the group. Anybody that drives 5 hours to sleep in a tent in a rainforest is okay with me.
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Gord, bet you know, I was being kind of sarcastic. Perhaps your new Filipino friends let you go first because they are familiar with some of your posts ::)?
Oh excuse me, there I go again!
Back to Roeman's post. I could play the same game and say my parents and grandparents had nothing to do with what white people did to the FNs because I am a first generation Canadian. My parents settled here before I was born. Only 2 of my Grandparents came here and one died within a few years of arrival.
My Dad used to like to fish the Fraser at McMillan Island back in the 60s and he was told to talk with the Band Chief if he wanted to fish on the rez. So him and I went to his house and the Chief was very nice, he invited us into his place and gave him permission to fish whenever he liked. I'd neve seen amnIndian before. They had kids a few years younger than me (I was 7 or 8). I looked at those kids and thought they looked like average kids, pretty much like me.
Afterwards my Dad told me the truth about Indians. He said few peoples in the entire world had been as badly treated as the original people of North America. The land was theirs and they mostly welcomed those who first came to North America. Later almost all their land was taken away In BC they were settled on tiny reservations hardly fit live on. Once they were rich for their circumstances now they were among the poorest of people in our country. He thought this was horribly unfair.
FWIW this was rather unusal for him - he was also bigoted and intolerant on many other issues.
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Gord, bet you know, I was being kind of sarcastic. Perhaps your new Filipino let you go first because they are familiar with some of your posts ::)?
Oh excuse me, there I go again!
Back to Roeman's post. I could play the same game and say my parents and grandparents had nothing to do with what white people did to the FNs because I am a first generation Canadian. My parents settled here before I was born. Only 2 of my Grandparents came here and one died within a few years of arrival.
My Dad used to like to fish the Fraser at McMillan Island back in the 60s and he was told to talk with the Band Chief if he wanted to fish on the rez. So him and I went to his house and the Chief was very nice, he invited us into his place and gave him permission to fish whenever he liked. I'd neve seen amnIndian before. They had kids a few years younger than me (I was 7 or 8). I looked at those kids and thought they looked like average kids, pretty much like me.
Afterwards my Dad told me the truth about Indians. He said few peoples in the entire world had been as badly treated as the original people of North America. The land was theirs and they mostly welcomed those who first came to North America. Later almost all their land was taken away In BC they were settled on tiny reservations hardly fit live on. Once they were rich for their circumstances now they were among the poorest of people in our country. He thought this was horribly unfair.
FWIW this was rather unusal for him - he was also bigoted and intolerant on many other issues.
You are absolutely right (for a change, lol) Joe Gabriel was one of a kind. And I am sure that they sent me first as bait.
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I’m curious what you think the real underlying issue is, SB?
Me too !
I guess I am the one trolling now .
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The last few days, Jay has totally been trolling the Facebook crowd. It's sad how gullible the haters are. He's posting pictures of chum he caught in previous years calling them 'northern Coho', and they are ready to hang him for it. The internet wins this week.
Really sad that there is someone who instead of just enjoying a time honoured outdoor hobby needs validation by trolling people on the internet . I could care less about some snagger on the internet. I care more that people abuse a precious resource with no respect for it or their fellow anglers .
As for the CO's enforcing the rules , that wont happen because they lack the manpower , though no fault of their own .
Simple way would be to close the canal , and maybe the rapids below Tamihi , another location known for snagging .
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You are absolutely right (for a change, lol)
the you will be shocked to know that over many years I have with few exceptions been agreement with what you have written online.
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Simple way would be to close the canal , and maybe the rapids below Tamihi , another location known for snagging .
Now you want to close below Tamahi too? You should probably include the entire Allison Pool section then. Maybe throw in the whole Lickman/Peach section. Definitely too many snaggers by the train bridge also. The 'slab' would be an absolute shut down.
You make no sense. This idea of shutting down sections of the river because of 'snaggers' is just stupid.
Every section that gets shut down is just going to increase the snagging on other parts of the river and make it more crowded.
You remind me of those with the rediculous 'gun laws' mentality. They say that if you take away guns from law abiding citizens that there won't be anymore mass shootings. That's not how reality works and you need to learn that.
Criminals will always have guns to shoot other people with.... and snaggers/poachers will always be poaching/snagging no matter what laws are introduced or even enforced.
The sooner you understand that, the sooner you will stop being angry about things you can't control.
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Closing large sections of the Chilliwack will likely move all the nonsense somewhere else.
Changing people's attitudes can help. I admired Petr Herman when he said he catches enough for his needs and then stops fishing ...for the season. One guy posted limits he caught on 7 consecutive days, that's 28 fish. Seems excessive to me. I might do that once or twice in the season but afterwards I'd want a change of pace, like trout fishing. Reducing the number of fish available would be another approach but certain not to be popular. There could other things equally not welcome by most. Me I just don't go. I'd planned to scope out some walk in spots earlier in the season but the timing didn't line up for me. Maybe this winter or next year I'll put in the time. But I have other places to fish though they are not as productive yet they are more satisfying in many ways the Vedder can't match.
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It’s the angling success that causes all the crowds and when it’s really good guy are calling out all their buddies that would normally not be around.
Cut the hatchery production and you would cut the crowds guaranteed.
It’s the sockeye mentality
Everyone that goes into the gong show needs to know what to expect and as they say go with the flow. If your going out there thinking your gonna get space, then your already going out with the wrong mind set.
Have to go into it with the right frame of mind and you will save your self an headache.
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Cut the hatchery production and you would cut the crowds guaranteed.
This doesn't work, and it's something Ralph said recently as to why. It's basically the idea of having 'harvest' fisheries etched into your memory
He was talking about how they cut the hatchery cutthroat stocking to the Fraser river and backwaters. It's been years since they have clipped cutthroat. There are none left....but we've been fishing the Fraser backwaters for decades hoping to get a 'hatchery' cutthroat. It's etched in memory that a 'harvest' fishery for them exists
Problem is.... I am still seeing guys today in the Fraser backwaters and sloughs hauling cutthroat up the banks before checking them. They say, "too bad...another wild one".... until I tell them that there are no hatchery fish left and they need to stop hauling them up the banks.
It would be the same thing with the Vedder. After the last 45 years of plentiful harvest, it would take YEARS for people to realize that there is nothing (or very little) to take home. In the meantime, the fewer remaining wild fish would be getting hauled up the banks by 'hopefuls' who still think their catch might be a legal fish.
The best solution for right now is to leave the Chilliwack/Vedder as is for the most part. It is a harvest river where the wild fish seem to hold their numbers year after year....even with all the pressure. It's not a perfect situation, but it's not completely broken either. The best thing they could do right now is to heavily increase enforcement. The fines would EASILY pay the wages. Just plain common sense here.
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Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.
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I remember dink floating, pink wool in the Chehalis over 25 years ago shoulder to shoulder. Went out there again last year, there was only a hand full of people, one guide on the other side doing a walk a wade with someone and that's it.
good fishing brings the crowds
I am not saying they should reduce the hatchery production, I'm just saying the good fishing is the primary driver for all the people.
Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.
They did, Also I believe the Coho a bit too as to many were returning to the hatchery. Chum too but I don't no if that got reversed or not.
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The Chilliwack fall salmon fishery is a by product of the hatchery feeding a heavily promoted saltwater fishery. Any attempt to cut that back will meet pushback from that sector which has a lot of clout. DFO could cut the coho hatchery production by half and set the limit to 2 fish and it would still have an excellent in river fishery. That still will run afoul of the sport fishing industry in the chuck and it may still be super crowded anyway.
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Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.
the upswing in production was done for srkw concerns.
1 million will still be a lot of Chinooks.
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Hopefully things will go back to normal with the fall rains. After yesterdays rain there are lots of areas to fish that are over looked till the creepers start seeing you hook a bunch. Hopefully it rains 10-20 mills everyday for the next few weeks to keep the river up.
Already starting to drop from yesterday.
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I used to do a lot of first light coho fishing on the Vedder.. Now I don't. Have noticed a big shift in the lack of respect/étiquète, and a swing towards entitlement. "Back in the day" I usually be the first one at my spot (430-5am). And as other rolled in they'd show respect to the guy(s) there before them, ask if there was room to squeeze in, and so on. Guy(s) who showed up too late would realize, ah dang it, this spot is kind of full, guess I'm going to have to go elsewhere.
Then somewhere that line of thinking went out the window. Seems a lot of guys would show up like 5 minutes before you could see your float, and just squeeze in. Not a word said, hood up, zero f**cks given.
I had enough when it happened several times where I had to walk a spring down or whatever, or bonking/dealing with a fish on shore, and I come back to where I was fishing, and it seems to have "disappeared." In other words, the other guys fishing around me (likely buddies) squeezed me out of my spot. After words were exchanged they'd shuffle a bit to let me back in, but then they'd be dicks about it, casting right on my float, etc. You get the picture.
I finally had enough and only do the canal by boat now for 1st light. If I want to shore fish I'll do the late afternoon - dusk shift. Catch less coho but seems most of the jerks have gone home by then.
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I used to do a lot of first light coho fishing on the Vedder.. Now I don't. Have noticed a big shift in the lack of respect/étiquète, and a swing towards entitlement. "Back in the day" I usually be the first one at my spot (430-5am). And as other rolled in they'd show respect to the guy(s) there before them, ask if there was room to squeeze in, and so on. Guy(s) who showed up too late would realize, ah dang it, this spot is kind of full, guess I'm going to have to go elsewhere.
Then somewhere that line of thinking went out the window. Seems a lot of guys would show up like 5 minutes before you could see your float, and just squeeze in. Not a word said, hood up, zero f**cks given.
I had enough when it happened several times where I had to walk a spring down or whatever, or bonking/dealing with a fish on shore, and I come back to where I was fishing, and it seems to have "disappeared." In other words, the other guys fishing around me (likely buddies) squeezed me out of my spot. After words were exchanged they'd shuffle a bit to let me back in, but then they'd be dicks about it, casting right on my float, etc. You get the picture.
I finally had enough and only do the canal by boat now for 1st light. If I want to shore fish I'll do the late afternoon - dusk shift. Catch less coho but seems most of the jerks have gone home by then.
Agreed. It's one thing when guys squeeze in around you, but when you go to the shore for 90 seconds to trim your bait and you come back and someone is standing on my rock......that is a whole other level of selfishness. Although....I have no problem coming back even if that means standing 18 inches next to him waiting for him to figure it out.....Sadly....some of these dips$!ts still don't get it.......
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I used to do a lot of first light coho fishing on the Vedder.. Now I don't. Have noticed a big shift in the lack of respect/étiquète, and a swing towards entitlement. "Back in the day" I usually be the first one at my spot (430-5am). And as other rolled in they'd show respect to the guy(s) there before them, ask if there was room to squeeze in, and so on. Guy(s) who showed up too late would realize, ah dang it, this spot is kind of full, guess I'm going to have to go elsewhere.
Then somewhere that line of thinking went out the window. Seems a lot of guys would show up like 5 minutes before you could see your float, and just squeeze in. Not a word said, hood up, zero f**cks given.
I had enough when it happened several times where I had to walk a spring down or whatever, or bonking/dealing with a fish on shore, and I come back to where I was fishing, and it seems to have "disappeared." In other words, the other guys fishing around me (likely buddies) squeezed me out of my spot. After words were exchanged they'd shuffle a bit to let me back in, but then they'd be dicks about it, casting right on my float, etc. You get the picture.
I finally had enough and only do the canal by boat now for 1st light. If I want to shore fish I'll do the late afternoon - dusk shift. Catch less coho but seems most of the jerks have gone home by then.
I have been fishing the afternoons and most of the time I encounter one or two other people in a run. Fishing is not as good as first light but I still hook half a dozen and keep a few coho. Fish the whole run like you do for steelhead and you'll get a few biters, and if the run hasn't been fished for hours then you'll get lots of biters. Haven't been skunked yet this season. It's much more relaxing and there is no need to get up at 4 am just to get a spot to fish. But if you are inclined to get up at 4am to get a spot then hats of to you. That tells me you are super dedicated and you are willing to sacrifice sleep for a chance to catch some fish for your family.
Oh, there is no need to close any part of the river because you don't agree with how some people fish. We all know where they are and can just walk away from that. It's a long river with lots of places to fish so don't let some people ruin your experience. Getting angry over stupid stuff will only shorten your life.