Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: roeman on October 08, 2025, 06:55:14 PM
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I moved back to the area in 2019 but since then always fished the Harrison River with a boat in the fall. Just sold my boat an thought lets give the Vedder a shot. I have heard about it but I thought I can find a little run and make a few casts. People crowded on from Yarrow down to Keith Wilson bridge so walked the shore line crossing in the shallows and amazed at the crowds. Found a small slot against the bank between two crowded areas and started casting in the early morning. Hooked a hatchery coho with in the first couple minutes then another soon after. Landing the fish I noticed 4 guys walking down from the overcrowded bar above. While dealing with the fish and securing both in the gravel with a stick, I go to return to casting and there are 4 guys standing in a small area and crowded me out. Stood between the four and thought to myself they will move on in a couple minutes. Could see the coho going by and they would rip the float two or three times every drift. Two of guys that were right below me actually ran up above the other two and cast at the fish that had swam thru. Hooked one more and left after only fishing for 45 minutes. I realize its a busy river but I chose to find a small area away from everyone and to have a good time. Could not take it anymore, while cleaning the three fish I picked up as many baseball size rocks I could put in my vest, went back to the run and stood in from of the four guys and thru at least 20 rocks into the run. Smiled and walked away. When did it become acceptable for this type of behavior, People were actually walking into areas carrying lawn chairs.
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Getting worse every year.
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"picked up as many baseball size rocks I could put in my vest, went back to the run and stood in from of the four guys and thru at least 20 rocks into the run. Smiled and walked away. " ::) ::)
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Solutions to all of this are obvious but few would surrender their turn at the hog trough. It's our 'right' as Canadians after all.
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I don't no if its different this year but I've seen comments like the OP almost daily on social media.
Vedder is a meat fishery tho IMO, if your looking for peace and tranquility there is other flows, with better and less people. Just might not walk home with a fish and certainly not three.
Q rods photos' of him fishing up river with no one around and a beach full of fish lol
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It's our 'right' as Canadians after all.
lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
I also went does the rabbit hole of inherent rights of first nations vs citizens of Canada. I think I broke AI
it ended with
"this is one of the most complex and contested areas of Canadian law"
"The tension you perceive is at the heart of reconciliation efforts in Canada. On one hand, the government recognizes that Indigenous rights are inherent, pre-dating the state. On the other, the state maintains that inherent rights are not absolute and must be implemented within the Canadian constitutional framework, including being subject to justifiable infringement. For many Indigenous peoples, the fact that their inherent rights must be continually proven in a colonial legal system is the very contradiction at the root of the struggle"
"Your question highlights the central paradox of the relationship between the Canadian state and First Nations: The inherent rights of Indigenous peoples are affirmed within a legal system that was imposed upon them by a colonizing power"
"In short, your observation captures the core issue: A system based on rights granted by the state has had to figure out how to incorporate pre-existing, inherent rights. The result is a complex legal and political reality where First Nations exercise authority, but are still ultimately nested within the Canadian constitutional order:
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lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
I also went does the rabbit hole of inherent rights of first nations vs citizens of Canada. I think I broke AI
it ended with
"this is one of the most complex and contested areas of Canadian law"
"The tension you perceive is at the heart of reconciliation efforts in Canada. On one hand, the government recognizes that Indigenous rights are inherent, pre-dating the state. On the other, the state maintains that inherent rights are not absolute and must be implemented within the Canadian constitutional framework, including being subject to justifiable infringement. For many Indigenous peoples, the fact that their inherent rights must be continually proven in a colonial legal system is the very contradiction at the root of the struggle"
"Your question highlights the central paradox of the relationship between the Canadian state and First Nations: The inherent rights of Indigenous peoples are affirmed within a legal system that was imposed upon them by a colonizing power"
"In short, your observation captures the core issue: A system based on rights granted by the state has had to figure out how to incorporate pre-existing, inherent rights. The result is a complex legal and political reality where First Nations exercise authority, but are still ultimately nested within the Canadian constitutional order:
Lol.... even AI can see the stupidity and lack of any common sense or logic in the socialistic BS Canadian policies of how we negotiate with the First Nations. Oh wait.... I forgot the governments of Canada don't actually negotiate with them. They just rob Canadian taxpayers and give the First Nations everything they ask for on a silver platter.
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lol I just AI'ed this, it was not conclusive but generally leaning towards the Canadian public does not have an inherent right to fish. That common law and Magna Carta does not protect public fishing rights although many courts still cite to it in discussions of the public right to fish.
oh yeah and so I included the 'right' in quotes. Unlike the UK where common law originated, Canada has for the most part (Quebec excepted and some Maritime Provinces to an extent), held the resources of fish, game and gathering as part of the commons like air and water and so with, some limitations (ie licensing) are available to everyone. Certainly makes sense when population was low and many people lived hand and mouth lives in the wilderness or at least far away from the resources available in cities. It's getting sort of different now with high population and industrial enhancement of wild fish populations but people are still very attached to it and see it as part of the country's heritage.
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
We need way more enforcement + licencing exams. People have gone crazy. Obviously, the food prices have also gone way up, which doesn't help
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
We need way more enforcement + licencing exams. People have gone crazy. Obviously, the food prices have also gone way up, which doesn't help
that's too bad and you shouldn't write off the river because of a bad experience or 2. I have had some great experiences on the river. Some of the places that take some walking can often provide you with the elbow room you desire. Another approach is to fish the should seasons - the start or the end of the run. Chum and coho can be available into late November and even December. By then the crowds have long migrated to other river with later runs and even hung their tackle up for the year. Expect fewer fish and mostly wild ones but you'll learn a lot about the river and how to fish it whatever your tackle choice.
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Fish later in the season when their freezers are full. ;D
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Huge uptick in angler effort in the last 3 years since a lot of Asian fishing communities have formed new anglers within them, I’m Asian so I know what’s going on. These groups are super hungry for fish. I used to be able to fish some shady early Cap coho spots almost always alone, now there’s 5-10 new rods on any given day. They are turned into fishermen by their friends and find spots by word of mouth so all the social media doesn’t have much effect.
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Fished the Vedder only once and swore I'd never go back there again. I don't care that that's the best chance to hit the fish limit, etc. I hate the crowds and the rudeness. Much rather hike into a remote river, catch one or even none, and go home.
The vast majority of CV salmon anglers are drifting fishing with floats and tend to congregate in predictable places. It's almost a herd mentality. They only know how to fish one way and feel comfortable (even safe) going where everyone else is.
I would even say that many of the anglers lack an understanding of fish behaviour, lack the skills to read the water and to adapt, and lack the confidence to venture beyond those predictable places.
Heck, many of us have been there. That certainly described me early on too.
The trick is to explore the river, be prepared to walk, and fish different techniques in water that drift fishers tend to overlook. Doing that can produce outstanding results in relative solitude in some pretty places. Above Vedder Crossing bridge, there is no Rotary trail and the river strays away from the paved road providing good opportunity to get away from the herd and find your own water.
And, have others have mentioned, once the initial coho fever subsides and the weather is cold and wet, and the crowds migrate to other systems north of the Fraser, the crowds on the CV will thin out and there can still be excellent fishing into late November,
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I have just retired, and have looked forward to now flexibility of fishing through the week. I have always fished away from the crowds for the last 30 years and for the most part have been able to fish with alot of good fisherman. This last coupe of weeks I thought i would head down to the canal to just explore and see what was really happening in that part of the system.
My findings are nothing but upsetting. The amount of people dragging fish across the rocks, sticking hands in gills, fish being passed around for a hero shot only to be realeased because the fish is not a hatchery or they simply don't want the fish is staggering.
People I feel are not getting the message or simply just don't care. I feel at times it's the latter. I must mention, I did have many conversations with many of the people, and many of them just don't really seem to care.
The question I have is what can be done? Education, people who Indentify with some authority other than Conservation of Fishery officers.
I know we can just ignore the problem and go fish somewhere else, but I don't feel that is the solution. Alot of good people have put countless hours into our salmon habitat to see it go to waste is so frustrating.
How bad will this be in the next 10 years if change doesn't happen soon?
Just my rant. I know change is hard.
Rodney thanks for all you do and all your hard work on getting the message out there, I just wish more could be done.
Take care
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‘Combat fishing’ on the Vedder is about the same as the Kenai river in Alaska. The difference is in Alaska there are also some food fishing opportunities. Treble hooks and dip nets are part of the process. I don’t think the Kenai is included at least during prime sockeye season. Considering the Vedder River system is mostly ’stocked’ with white springs and hatchery cohos perhaps a ‘food’ fishery especially for the springs is worth testing out. There could be a knowledge test as part of that license that also teaches sport fishing etiquette.
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
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SEAs come from countries with destroyed rivers and are now doing the sane thing to the rivers here.
Like some other said, up the licence prices, mandate licence exams, and vastly increase patrols. Hell, give ticketing power to some avid anglers that need to pass a stringent exam to get this power. I see snaggers a lot and would love to rip them a new one
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
You haven’t been around nearly long enough to make these kinds of statements.
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
Are you trying to imply that kasnaggers are the first group to only fish the vedder to limit out? I thought that’s what everyone is there to do?
Also nice use of ai lol
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Behold, the culmination of my comments!
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=45341.msg429839#new)
The Vedder canal is now the official backdrop for a Facebook salmon snagging flex-fest, where the only thing being caught is a collective lapse in judgment. The harvester hive mind grows stronger by the day, and their apologists were gravely mistaken as I predicted.
Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause.
The core of this issue isn't a lack of communication, but a total misalignment of values and end goals. We are speaking the language of sportfishing, while they only respond to the calculus of social clout and a full cooler. The harvesters can now only be stopped by force and actual punishment, a concept that is foreign to our current enforcement measures. We're trying to fight this fight with a feather duster when what's needed is a sledgehammer.
Until the consequences for this behavior become immediate, severe, and highly visible, our complaints are just background noise to their victory posts.
The fish are so systematically abused they've developed full-blown piscine PTSD. And the cherry on top of this disaster? The low river levels are our new permanent reality. So, prepare, because this conundrum isn't just continuing, it's curating a whole collection of "Worse and Worse" seasons to come.
It is hard to comment without getting too harsh. After this group was brought to my attention I have been following them and I love their enthusiasm for the sport. They are attacked by racist fools like the OP constantly and it just rolls off of their backs. From what I can see their worst trait is that they go fishing too often and I, like so many, am jealous. But their best trait is the ability to troll the sheep very, very effectively as evidenced by the OP. I am pretty sure that the first rule of poaching and snagging is that you don't brag and post your picture on the internet.
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I saw something that is a new low for Vedder - completely insane.
Few days ago, I was at upper canal in the morning where I saw anglers decently spaced out (I am talking atleast 20 feet of distance). Weather was sunny and you could clearly see the fish travel up and down. after some time 4-5 anglers showed up and squeezed themselves in. One of them started shouting and running behind the school of coho and started snagging them left and right - soon others who came together with him started doing the same, they all were screaming and running up and down following the school, snagging them with long leaders !! WTF?!? Utter disregard of other fellow anglers too, they would run and stand in front of you, cast right in if there was a school, snag and if they lose it, they run again !!
I have never seen people running behind the fish on Vedder. I wouldnt even call this harvest fishery, its buffoonery.
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I find it interesting when people get all strung out over the 'Kasnaggers' page.
They are totally trolling people and people take the bait and get riled up.
I've personally watched Jay fish and I have seen that he short floats roe and soft beads exactly the same way I do. He isn't snagging fish.
People are just jealous that he gets his fish most of the time.
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I find it interesting when people get all strung out over the 'Kasnaggers' page.
They are totally trolling people and people take the bait and get riled up.
I've personally watched Jay fish and I have seen that he short floats roe and soft beads exactly the same way I do. He isn't snagging fish.
People are just jealous that he gets his fish most of the time.
Did you turn on the audio? You can really hear how loud they are — it’s something different in the culture.
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I can remember a time way back in the 20th Century when a little guy was just starting to post about his love of fishing. He had a funny accent (Australian?) and didn't fit the picture of an outdoorsman because of his heritage and he was constantly abused by a racist crowd. Hell, he introduced me to a the presence of something called a Pea Mouthed Chub. But he persevered and made a very big impact on the BC fishing scene as he incorporated tech with passion and even some of the racists came to appreciate his efforts. Fast forward to today where a new crowd of tech savvy non-white fishermen are making waves in the local fishing scene and on the site that the funny little guy soared the same barriers are being put up. I find this to be so ironic. And, just for the record, there have been lots of guys fishing in a manner that is less than sporting for a long, long time on Lower Mainland rivers. The big difference is merely that gumboots, spark plugs and trebles (the old-timers will get this) have been replaced with modern and more subtle methods. But targeting Asians is still popular with the bigots. Try looking at the Kasnaggers as an avid, enthusiastic bunch of young people who will help keep this sport relevant in the future. I spend quite a bit other time camping/fishing in BC and I am in my 70's and often the average age in camp. There are no young people there. We need youth to get out in the wild to preserve the resources or they will end up being paved over and fishing, hunting and camping will be history. And, yes, these guys/gals look different than us but we looked different than those we displaced.
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Said it before, GordJ, the voice of reason ...
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Be careful what you wish for. When Kasnaggers rush into campsite, there will be a whole new level. You probably won’t find a vacant spot, and quiet time will be hard to come by.
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Thanks for those genuine and heartfelt words Gord and there is not much to disagree with in them.
I would say that I did not see anything racist sentiment in Roe Man's post either overt or implied. He didn't identify any particular group other than those who tote lawn chairs to the riverside. BTW that occasionally includes me and I don't find it offensive.
Prejudice by experienced anglers who have lived here has a long and checkered history. I carry some of those prejudices. Those are often not based on race. Like Roe Man I have been "crowded out" after trying to find a small place to myself on a crowded river. Happened to me many times and one case was years ago - perhaps 30. I had gone to the Chilliwack in early November, often when the crowds thinned a bit. After some driving and walking I found such a place mid-river where there was a bank side log jam and some moderately deep frog water. I could see some coho in there. I tied on a mickey finn and hooked a few coho, a nice buck, a hatchery doe and a smaller hatch male of a few pounds. By that time some younger guys were lining up around that small backwater. A few more clambered onto the logs. The salmon in the pool moved into the logs. Game over! I was happy with my catch and headed home. By the the way Gord those guys looked like me, they might have been 5 or 10 years younger but they were white! They spoke pure Canadian eh! It's an old story. I could tell many more but who cares.
I can remember a time way back in the 20th Century when a little guy was just starting to post about his love of fishing. He had a funny accent (Australian?) and didn't fit the picture of an outdoorsman because of his heritage and he was constantly abused by a racist crowd. Hell, he introduced me to a the presence of something called a Pea Mouthed Chub. But he persevered and made a very big impact on the BC fishing scene as he incorporated tech with passion and even some of the racists came to appreciate his efforts. Fast forward to today where a new crowd of tech savvy non-white fishermen are making waves in the local fishing scene and on the site that the funny little guy soared the same barriers are being put up. I find this to be so ironic. And, just for the record, there have been lots of guys fishing in a manner that is less than sporting for a long, long time on Lower Mainland rivers. The big difference is merely that gumboots, spark plugs and trebles (the old-timers will get this) have been replaced with modern and more subtle methods. But targeting Asians is still popular with the bigots. Try looking at the Kasnaggers as an avid, enthusiastic bunch of young people who will help keep this sport relevant in the future. I spend quite a bit other time camping/fishing in BC and I am in my 70's and often the average age in camp. There are no young people there. We need youth to get out in the wild to preserve the resources or they will end up being paved over and fishing, hunting and camping will be history. And, yes, these guys/gals look different than us but we looked different than those we displaced.
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I would say that I did not see anything racist sentiment in Roe Man's post either overt or implied. He didn't identify any particular group other than those who tote lawn chairs to the riverside. BTW that occasionally includes me and I don't find it offensive.
You are absolutely right, I did not mean to include the OP in the description. He, in my opinion, did not include any hint of race. Sorry to suggest that you were included by omission roeman. It was the person who said "Their strength in numbers makes them utterly brazen and tough to intimidate. We've moved past a conservation issue and into a cultural one, where blatant harvest is not just accepted, but celebrated with a digital round of applause." that I would have problem with. WTF,"tough to intimidate"? I have not had the opportunity to meet up with these guys but others that have found them to be respectful and fun to be around. As the busiest river in the province it is nothing new that people complain about crowding. But as someone who has fished as far away as the Bella Coola/Atnarko (where I had a great encounter with some Philippinos from Williams Lake) and the Nass/Meziadin in the last year I can say that fishing the Vedder is pretty darned good in spite of the crowds.