Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: SuperBobby on August 22, 2024, 05:37:37 PM
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https://fraservalleynewsnetwork.com/2024/08/22/provincial-flood-recovery-work-and-closures-along-vedder-rotary-trail/?fbclid=IwY2xjawE0uCxleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHS5zeFR6obRI4ASUsbLT_8oPDWASsssKwIgbyl9vazZqIJheAavwTvQjXg_aem_KpTJLy3gw7rcpVkmX9b-qQ
Typical NDP government. They don't think things through and they are too arrogant to consult with user groups. Any other time of the year would have been fine....but no....let's do Coho season.
The October election cannot come soon enough. Eby and his moron government need to go.
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Agreed, the timing sucks for anglers, but I disagree that any other time would have been fine.
The spring/summer freshet window is out. I doubt they would be permitted to do it during the winter/spring with eggs and alevin in the gravel. November, Dec, Jan are the heaviest rainfall months of the year, with November being the heaviest. And time is of the essence to get this done before the fall/winter rains, esp since they couldn’t do it in 2023 due to pink salmon spawning.
Yeah, the timing sucks, but all things considered, and in the interest of public safety, I think it’s the best available option.
Edit: correct year from 2022 to 2023
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Good point
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that';s going to put some unreal pressure on other hotspots
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If one reads the City Posting at
https://www.chilliwack.com/main/page.cfm?id=37&prshow=details&prid=577
This project is being carried out by the Province and aims to enhance flood protection along the Vedder River. The 2021 atmospheric river event caused 440,000 cubic metres of sediment to deposit in the Vedder River, which is 10 times the typical annual amount. Sediment removals will happen in August and September to help restore the river’s capacity to contain and convey floodwater. Once the project is complete, the trails will be restored to their pre-construction condition.
or the Province notice: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/flood-projects/vedder-canal
It starts this Monday and could last into October. Sounds like the trails and parking lots won't all be closed during that period. Doesn't sound particularly aimed at the angling public. Public consultation and notice does suck though.
It's a big project. Water conditions will likely suck for much of that time. With the Fraser shut and lack of similar snagging havens, the flossing social groups may stay home or spread out elsewhere.
BTW - there has been closures of the Park on the Stave for years now and people who fish there have adapted.
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Sounds like the trails and parking lots won't all be closed during that period. Doesn't sound particularly aimed at the angling public.
Did you even read the article I posted. Here's the part you must have missed.
"Please note that the following parking lots may be closed for portions of the project:
Lickman Road
Hooge Road
Bergman Road
Giesbrecht Dyke
Keith Wilson Bridge and surrounding dykes"
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Did you even read the article I posted. Here's the part you must have missed.
"Please note that the following parking lots may be closed for portions of the project:
Lickman Road
Hooge Road
Bergman Road
Giesbrecht Dyke
Keith Wilson Bridge and surrounding dykes"
Yes that was what I meant ..."may be" is not "will be".
In the meantime we must wait and see.
Time for me to publish more poetry 8)
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https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/flood-projects/vedder-canal
13 million dollar budget.
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This is necessary work that has been done many times before; perhaps not quite as much material removed in the past years. It should create some great fishing waters (slow) and will allow for some reshaping come the freshet.
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a link to a trail closure map:
https://www.chilliwack.com/main/attachments/Files/3171/08%2D22%2D2024%20%2D%20Vedder%20River%20Sediment%20Removal%20Overall%20Map%202024.pdf
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Hopefully will be quieter in the lower river
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Time for me to publish more poetry 8)
Funniest thing I have read today! Lol
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Well as in any other year for those accustomed to putting on some mileage other than the few meters from wherever they are parked opportunities may still be had at least in the upper reaches of the system, albeit they are dwindling too
The past Covid pandemic was obviously one of the major aspects (that, coupled with the irreversible damaging effects of hero photos...that we been accustomed to seeing much more of this past decade) hugely contributing/impacting the urbanization of the Vedder over the recent years, IMHO.... as the entire LML seems to have gravitated here (not knowing where the pandemic was heading) desperately in search of outdoor activities that the hoards were steered towards due the indoor pandemic restrictions....golf/courses being the other outdoor activity also most negatively affected with course saturation and abhorrent green fees gone through the roof.....the throngs of new fishers has more than over-run the entire system during salmon migrations even more so than ever if that's even possible....
So.....perhaps this perceived inconvenience of trail closures will have somewhat of a curtailing effect on the Fall fishing throngs....LOL...remains to be seen but one can dream....eliminating hero photos/vids would help immensely too but too late for that, the damage is done.
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So, if I'm reading this correctly, anything on the river with a red line is not accessible? With this thought the entire back half of the canal up from kwb is closed until the west side of fishermans corner?
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So.....perhaps this perceived inconvenience of trail closures will have somewhat of a curtailing effect on the Fall fishing throngs....LOL...remains to be seen but one can dream....eliminating hero photos/vids would help immensely too but too late for that, the damage is done.
So where are you going in the lower river this year..... ;D
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Regardless why it closes almost the entire trail, how it is closed is a good question. Unless there is seriously bylaw enforcement and 100 excavators working day and night, people will do whatever they want.
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Regardless why it closes almost the entire trail, how it is closed is a good question. Unless there is seriously bylaw enforcement and 100 excavators working day and night, people will do whatever they want.
Will be a dangerous situation for those walking along these closed areas with all those Volvo trucks loaded with gravel going along the trails, some move at a good clip.
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I'd imagine private security contractors and tow trucks will be there to control access.
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perfect season to drift the lower river in a raft. Might find places all to yourself if that is at all possible
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Rafts coming down the river, jets going up the river, it'll be a party. ;D
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would this work completely change the runs that we've been fishing in the past 2 seasons? especially those sediment removal area marked on the map, they're the most crowded runs...
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perfect season to drift the lower river in a raft. Might find places all to yourself if that is at all possible
Except for the fact that all the heavy equipment is going to cause the lower river to go silty much of the time.
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Except for the fact that all the heavy equipment is going to cause the lower river to go silty much of the time.
Maybe the reality is no equipment show up in days. That is usually how government work conducted.
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Maybe the reality is no equipment show up in days. That is usually how government work conducted.
Work was slated to begin yesterday, some local could take a look at the closures and if they've started work
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Rafts coming down the river, jets going up the river, it'll be a party. ;D
LOL!!! :D
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Work was slated to begin yesterday, some local could take a look at the closures and if they've started work
Honestly I'm sure petr will have a video out in the 1st week of september to comment on the conditions and closures, which I would say is before majority of the people have started the season
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Ah, gravel extraction......... Funny how everyone cares when they cant access their favorite location, but care nothing about the principles of it.
Dredge the Somas mud if your worried about flooding, but is it really about flooding or just lining pockets with money?
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speaking of fishing, with all this rain have any early coho/springs been coming in. wink wink.
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Absolutely not! ;D
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https://watershedwatch.ca/stories/gravel-mining-on-vedder-river-a-risk-to-salmon-survival/?mc_cid=db29087fa5&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
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Work has begun. Orange fencing with closed signage on parts of the Rotary trail. Heavy equipment moving about in the river.
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https://watershedwatch.ca/stories/gravel-mining-on-vedder-river-a-risk-to-salmon-survival/?mc_cid=db29087fa5&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
I am sure that's true. I am also sure the dyking does as well. I guess the province is just going to have to expropriate all the properties on the flood plains below Vedder Crossing so the river can run free! ;D
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This how it looked like on the project a few years ago that I filmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMjJlDym2NQ
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This video I filmed a few years ago bothered me as the machine was in the river proper. The river came up suddenly so the machine was trying to shore up the pit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcRlB6bvuR0
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Who gets to keep this gravel? Does the contractor just get to sell it? Gravel like this is an incredibly valuable resource in dwindling local supply. Its one thing to remove "sediment" but this is spawning gravel and cobbles. I agree with the comment of dredging some mud out of the sumas. that will likely never happen though.
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Who gets to keep this gravel? Does the contractor just get to sell it? Gravel like this is an incredibly valuable resource in dwindling local supply.
Just a big cash grab. Now I’m hearing the Sumas Nation has set up some sort of surveying station below the KWB and gill netting will be happening across the canal. It just gets better and better.
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Who gets to keep this gravel? Does the contractor just get to sell it? Gravel like this is an incredibly valuable resource in dwindling local supply. Its one thing to remove "sediment" but this is spawning gravel and cobbles. I agree with the comment of dredging some mud out of the sumas. that will likely never happen though.
the Sumas is only a flood risk when the Nooksack breeches it dykes in Washington State so removing mud there will make little difference. The Vedder Chilliwack is dyked, channelized and settled over much of it's length. The fish runs are heavily enhanced. Decades of bi-annual sediment removal has had little noticeable effect on the size of fish returns.
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. Now I’m hearing the Sumas Nation has set up some sort of surveying station below the KWB and gill netting will be happening across the canal. It just gets better and better.
you didn't know about it already? It's been talked about here and elsewhere for a few years.
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the Sumas is only a flood risk when the Nooksack breeches it dykes in Washington State so removing mud there will make little difference. The Vedder Chilliwack is dyked, channelized and settled over much of it's length. The fish runs are heavily enhanced. Decades of bi-annual sediment removal has had little noticeable effect on the size of fish returns.
Have to agree with Ralph, so much fear mongering and misinformation. Except for the off channel areas, there is very limited salmonid rearing habitat and poor invertebrate populations in the Vedder below the Crossing and any main stem spawning by pinks or chum are negated because the substrate is so unstable in winter high water events.
As for sediment being released into the river, I believe Chris documented the only time this has occurred and that was minimal compared to a heavy rain.
As Ralph states, this gravel removal has been happening for decades with no noticeable effects on coho and steelhead populations. In a perfect world this extraction would not be necessary but the huge increase in the human population and climate change has changed how urban rivers are managed.
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Did you even read the article I posted. Here's the part you must have missed.
"Please note that the following parking lots may be closed for portions of the project:
Lickman Road
Hooge Road
Bergman Road
Giesbrecht Dyke
Keith Wilson Bridge and surrounding dykes"
From reading the last area listed above, Does this mean the whole canal from Fishermen Corner to H1 bridge is not accessible to cars? Where do fishermen park their cars fishing around there?
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Just to add, Sumas First Nations has had gill net openings the past two years in the canal and their catches have been minimal from the members I have talked to
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Have to agree with Ralph, so much fear mongering and misinformation. Except for the off channel areas, there is very limited salmonid rearing habitat and poor invertebrate populations in the Vedder below the Crossing and any main stem spawning by pinks or chum are negated because the substrate is so unstable in winter high water events.
As for sediment being released into the river, I believe Chris documented the only time this has occurred and that was minimal compared to a heavy rain.
As Ralph states, this gravel removal has been happening for decades with no noticeable effects on coho and steelhead populations. In a perfect world this extraction would not be necessary but the huge increase in the human population and climate change has changed how urban rivers are managed.
As well the need for the gravel in all the construction going on and what it is worth.This is what drives this operation. At least the decrease in fish farms is helping our wild salmom. Opps that is another topic.lol
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Welcome back bud! :)
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Just a big cash grab. Now I’m hearing the Sumas Nation has set up some sort of surveying station below the KWB and gill netting will be happening across the canal. It just gets better and better.
Big cash grab? Normally cash grabs invectives are directed against governments for taxes, levies or penalties.
I'm curious, are you suggesting that the private sector (is the contractor Jake's Construction again?) is grabbing cash because they may be able to keep the excavated gravel?
Or is the government cash grabbing because they are paying $13M for the project.
I'm just a little unsure who is grabbing the cash in your scenario...
On a similar note, it would be interesting to do an FOI request for the contract and see who is the beneficiary of gravel sale revenue.
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That gravel is rare and valuable. It's worth at least $20/m3 maybe 30. So on top of getting paid $13M to do the work they get to sell the gravel.
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I know zip about this particular contract. However $13m is by no means a huge amount. If the contractor wasn't able to sell the gravel for a profit the contract amount would no doubt be much higher. Say the government 'owned' the gravel and then had to sell it. It's not in much of a position to do that as it doesn't have the staff etc with experience in brokering gravel sales. Easier just to let a contractor take it away & sell it. Almost all government contracts go through a bid process. usually such details are spelled out in the bid. A web search might find it or alternately as was mentioned above it could be gotten via an FOI request or by simply calling your local MLA.
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Big cash grab? Normally cash grabs invectives are directed against governments for taxes, levies or penalties.
I'm curious, are you suggesting that the private sector (is the contractor Jake's Construction again?) is grabbing cash because they may be able to keep the excavated gravel?
Or is the government cash grabbing because they are paying $13M for the project.
I'm just a little unsure who is grabbing the cash in your scenario...
On a similar note, it would be interesting to do an FOI request for the contract and see who is the beneficiary of gravel sale revenue.
Jake's had the contract in 2014, 2016, and 2022 I am not sure for this year but I would not be surprsed as they are a large constuction company based here in Chilliwack.
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I know zip about this particular contract. However $13m is by no means a huge amount. If the contractor wasn't able to sell the gravel for a profit the contract amount would no doubt be much higher. Say the government 'owned' the gravel and then had to sell it. It's not in much of a position to do that as it doesn't have the staff etc with experience in brokering gravel sales. Easier just to let a contractor take it away & sell it. Almost all government contracts go through a bid process. usually such details are spelled out in the bid. A web search might find it or alternately as was mentioned above it could be gotten via an FOI request or by simply calling your local MLA.
How many contractor can get a 13m contract for 2 months work?
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Jake's had the contract in 2014, 2016, and 2022 I am not sure for this year but I would not be surprsed as they are a large constuction company based here in Chilliwack.
Side note-Jake Klassen the owner of Jake’s construction was my sons hockey coach when he played Chilliwack minor hockey with his son.
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How many contractor can get a 13m contract for 2 months work?
https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-funding-highway-1-abbotsford-langley-widening-project#:~:text=The%20B.C.%20government%20has%20announced,times%20between%20Langley%20and%20Abbotsford.
that's about 44 million a month over 5 years.
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Jake's had the contract in 2014, 2016, and 2022 I am not sure for this year but I would not be surprsed as they are a large constuction company based here in Chilliwack.
https://jakesconstruction.ca/project/vedder-river-gravel-extraction/
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How many contractor can get a 13m contract for 2 months work?
Exactly, 13M is like roads and underground on a 200 unit townhouse site that will take 2 years in my business
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The gravel does not sell for as much as some may think, It's not good for concrete/asphalt as it contains a high amount of organic matter, small pieces of wood ect..
That being said i know it the pass they tended to do this work in years where gravel prices were higher.
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Exactly, 13M is like roads and underground on a 200 unit townhouse site that will take 2 years in my business
As there are 13 sediment removal locations and 7 stock pile locations, I expect that work will be occurring at multiple sites concurrently in order to get the work completed within the required fisheries window.
I suggest not a same-same comparison to your context.
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It's been done every 2 years for as long as I can remember.
If anyone bothers to look into it they'd find it was planned for 2023 but delayed to this year to avoid the bi-annual pink run. The groups that complained about it last year are complaining again this year.
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The gravel does not sell for as much as some may think, It's not good for concrete/asphalt as it contains a high amount of organic matter, small pieces of wood ect..
I've often wondered how much lead is in the Vedder bottom sediments. Hooks and other gear are not that great either.
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I've often wondered how much lead is in the Vedder bottom sediments. Hooks and other gear are not that great either.
The question of lead in the Vedder, and it’s potential problems, was a consideration as a project for DFO’s Science Branch about 25 years ago. It was put on hold when it was found that blood samples from Water Ouzels(dippers) and American Mergansers had negligible lead concentrations.
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As there are 13 sediment removal locations and 7 stock pile locations, I expect that work will be occurring at multiple sites concurrently in order to get the work completed within the required fisheries window.
I suggest not a same-same comparison to your context.
Its still ALOT of money. just for crude math sake, Each machine with operator charges out at about $250/hr. lets say 6 weeks x 5 days a week x 10 hour days x 20 machines x $250/hr = $1.5M
Sure there is some wood debris mixed in, but minimal processing (washing, screening) could make it quite valuable. Another $2M and it could all be hauled away to a fill site (dump). so we're at $3.5M. Maybe I underestimated the machine/manpower. so double it and we're at 3+2= $5M. A far cry from 13!
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you could be right but there will also be Engineering, Environmental, Security & Administrative costs associated with the work; possibly more (such as a contingency). Often all the other stuff costs more than the actual work of digging and removal. These contracts are usually posted and your MLA could likely get the break down.
I had a look at the Jake's website and in the past they have dug all this stuff out without actually working in the river bed. They dig it out and leave a barrier between the pit and the river and then open a channel. This produces the big frog water holes coho love. I assume work has started. I drove over the Canal at the #1 Saturday. The river was love and clear.
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Its still ALOT of money. just for crude math sake, Each machine with operator charges out at about $250/hr. lets say 6 weeks x 5 days a week x 10 hour days x 20 machines x $250/hr = $1.5M
Sure there is some wood debris mixed in, but minimal processing (washing, screening) could make it quite valuable. Another $2M and it could all be hauled away to a fill site (dump). so we're at $3.5M. Maybe I underestimated the machine/manpower. so double it and we're at 3+2= $5M. A far cry from 13!
Here is a video of how these government work carrying out in full swing. Two excavator sit on gravel, one guy was napping, one guy stood by. $250 per hour?
https://www.facebook.com/1186454121/videos/427223326504015/?idorvanity=717189431721286
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Don't forget insurance. That's never cheap, and they can't work without it.
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you could be right but there will also be Engineering, Environmental, Security & Administrative costs associated with the work; possibly more (such as a contingency). Often all the other stuff costs more than the actual work of digging and removal. These contracts are usually posted and your MLA could likely get the break down.
I had a look at the Jake's website and in the past they have dug all this stuff out without actually working in the river bed. They dig it out and leave a barrier between the pit and the river and then open a channel. This produces the big frog water holes coho love. I assume work has started. I drove over the Canal at the #1 Saturday. The river was love and clear.
Engineering, environmental monitoring, and contingency arent usually included in the contractor's scope so wouldnt be included in the $13M. Administrative cost and insurance are included in the $250/hr force account rate I mentioned.
Most likely this contract could only be awarded to a contractor with approval from FN and its possible they only approved of Jakes. They knew that and took advantage.
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Engineering, environmental monitoring, and contingency arent usually included in the contractor's scope so wouldnt be included in the $13M. Administrative cost and insurance are included in the $250/hr force account rate I mentioned.
Most likely this contract could only be awarded to a contractor with approval from FN and its possible they only approved of Jakes. They knew that and took advantage.
you are discounting the fact there could be more than 1 contractor. The project is budgeted at 13 million. The Province will have to get engineering and environmental if a general contractor doesn't provide it.
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How can we find status updates on the closures, what is complete. I do not see any of that information on the websites.