Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chum Slayer on October 19, 2022, 02:24:01 PM
-
After talking to a friend about steelhead fishing in BC, he told me about fishing for summer runs on the Chehalis River and a few other spots. Are there summer runs on the Chehalis? or was it an old stocking program that stopped like other fisheries, but the fish kept coming back. If so would I have any chance of hooking one on the fly while fishing for coho?
Chum Slayer
-
After talking to a friend about steelhead fishing in BC, he told me about fishing for summer runs on the Chehalis River and a few other spots. Are there summer runs on the Chehalis? or was it an old stocking program that stopped like other fisheries, but the fish kept coming back. If so would I have any chance of hooking one on the fly while fishing for coho?
Chum Slayer
I asked this back in summer and the response was that it was an old stocking that stopped. Though I do not have much more information, usually summer steelhead runs end around end of September or mid October for my knowledge. If there is any probably very few. Though I know there are some chehalis veterans here which can share more. People tend to treat this river as a bit more secretive and may not be as willing to share much info. Which is understandable.
-
All that’s left is whatever offspring recruited from the hatchery fish that spawned. The last one I saw was 2 years ago I doubt there’s many left
-
There is still some natural recruitment but not much. I occasionally hike into a couple of spots in the canyon where they hold in August. I ask respectfully that no one asks me where those spots are.
-
......there is a thread from 2018 about closing cutthroat hatcheries that contains info on the summer runs and the ending of that stocking program if anyone Interested wants to search for it....
-
......there is a thread from 2018 about closing cutthroat hatcheries that contains info on the summer runs and the ending of that stocking program if anyone Interested wants to search for it....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42375.0 (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42375.0)
oh you bet there is. Just read through it all, pretty long but lots of great information I did not know before.
-
https://www.gofishbc.com/Blog/Science-and-Research/Coquihalla-Calling-Dynamite-to-the-rescue-for-a-s.aspx (https://www.gofishbc.com/Blog/Science-and-Research/Coquihalla-Calling-Dynamite-to-the-rescue-for-a-s.aspx)
This is also a great article about the summer steelhead in the coquihalla which was used before for the chehalis hatchery. Summer steelhead sounds like a dream fishery to me. With only a handful in the capilano and no other oppurtunities closeby it really does suck. I wonder if in the next 10-20 years if gene editing can get to a level where maybe fish stocks can be replenished using hatchery fish with changed genes for diversity. Though seemingly short timeframe it can probably be done with due time.
-
In 20 years you can forget about salmon and steelhead.. It will be all about Bass in Cultas Lake.
-
https://www.gofishbc.com/Blog/Science-and-Research/Coquihalla-Calling-Dynamite-to-the-rescue-for-a-s.aspx (https://www.gofishbc.com/Blog/Science-and-Research/Coquihalla-Calling-Dynamite-to-the-rescue-for-a-s.aspx)
This is also a great article about the summer steelhead in the coquihalla which was used before for the chehalis hatchery. Summer steelhead sounds like a dream fishery to me. With only a handful in the capilano and no other oppurtunities closeby it really does suck. I wonder if in the next 10-20 years if gene editing can get to a level where maybe fish stocks can be replenished using hatchery fish with changed genes for diversity. Though seemingly short timeframe it can probably be done with due time.
They show up in surprising places sometimes. And they inhabit more streams than people think. Don't be afraid to go exploring if you're able to ;)
They're certainly not around in the numbers that they used to be, but you should be able to find some with a little homework and a sense of adventure.
-
when rainbow trout and steelhead migrate or spawn may not be a simple matter of genetics or a gene. When rainbows were introduced into the southern hemisphere they quickly switched their spawning time from March to June to Sept to November. No gene splicing required.
-
The run timing is strongly associated with the photoperiod, ie. the length of the daylight and how it changes during the year. So the same genes work in the same way in the southern hemisphere. A run that spawns when the days are longest here, spawns when the days are longest in the southern hemisphere.
Gene editing is all very well and might produce some variation, but successful spawning requires the right amount of water at the right place at the right time. And the runs already have quite a lot of variation in timing (they don't all show up on the same day or even the same week), which increases the chance that at least part of the run will be able to spawn successfully.
-
A great point, animals that follow a migration pattern seem to have a biological clock that tell them when it's time! Changes in daily light patterns may be the major factor but there are likely others such as water temperature for fish. Also important to note that genetic dispositions may be turned off or on in response to a variety of factors. Reproductive success is another factor and likely for the timing of the bulk a salmon or steelhead run. Summer runs migrate earlier than 'winter runs' because it allows them to access spawning and rearing areas that they otherwise might not if they tried to migrate in winter or early spring.
All these ideas must also run up against the question of who is going to pay for such programs and where will the money come from?
-
Certainly the water conditions, both the temp and the water level, are quite different for summer and winter runs. I think you will find that because of the differences, each run will spawn in different places that optimize survival for the conditions at that time of year. Gravel that provides for successful spawning in June may be dry in December. There is probably some overlap in the locations but because of the different timing they don't end up competing with each other for the best spawning areas.
If you look at what is happening at Vedder right now, those fish are risking the shallow warm water, which they would normally avoid, because their biological clock is driving them to go upstream.
-
Not sure what June and December have to do with it... Winter and summer runs generally spawn in the same time frame or roughly from Feb to May. Summer runs, which may actually begin their fresh water migration any time from spring through late fall depending on the watershed, usually enter earlier as that's when temperature and stream levels are most favorable. You can look back at the link Darko provided for the example of the Coquihalla fish which are best able to make it through the canyon in summer as water levels drop when they find ideal conditions for jumping obstructions. Thompson fish migrate in fall then hold in-stream until spring to spawn and so avoid a cold temperature migration through the canyon in winter. That's the difference between summer and winter runs; summer fish arrive early and hold over to spawn in the following year.
there is more detail available at this link including one aspect I didn't mention - summer runs are not mature when they return - they are in an immature state and develop to sexual maturity during their long freshwater layover. Winter runs are always in a state of sexual maturity.
https://www.tu.org/magazine/uncategorized/summer-versus-winter-steelhead/
-
when rainbow trout and steelhead migrate or spawn may not be a simple matter of genetics or a gene. When rainbows were introduced into the southern hemisphere they quickly switched their spawning time from March to June to Sept to November. No gene splicing required.
Makes sense. September to November is Spring in the southern hemisphere - winter is waning and weather warming up.
-
Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought summers and winters were genetically distinct. If they spawned at the same time and place they wouldn't be, they would be just one big run.
-
I recall reading a report several years ago where one of the hatcheries (possibly Chilliwack) had noticed that the steelhead were pre-disposed to spawning at the same time.
The observation came about from the catching/bagging of all their brood stock over a couple of weeks and the offspring returning at that same time on the calendar. Therefore the hatchery began experimenting with catching spawners throughout the winter to learn if the offspring returned over the whole season.
(any resources on that Ralph?)
-
I always wondered why the Chilliwack doesn't have summers?
-
I always wondered why the Chilliwack doesn't have summers?
Not it's own unique run, but I've caught a few Coq stragglers over the years in the Chilliwack.
-
I always wondered why the Chilliwack doesn't have summers?
Summer Steelhead seem to only occur where it is advantageous to return early in the season instead of in the winter. Generally, this is in places where the ideal spawning/rearing habitat is above a barrier that is only passable in spring freshet. The same is true of spring chinook - they generally travel further upstream than any other salmon, and they need the spring freshet to get there. Once there, they can chill (literally and figuratively) in the high mountain water until they are ready to spawn. The advantage for their offspring is that they are far upstream of the competition, and the water is cool year 'round (at least it used to be!). I recently read a study of the different run timings in the Skagit river for Chinook - the later they return, the further downriver they spawn. And I think Dave has said similar things about Vedder winter steelhead - the early returning fish and the ones that spawn the furthest upriver. If there were any natural summer run fish in the Chilliwack, I would imagine they would spawn in the upper Chilliwack River (above the lake) way upstream where almost no other fish venture. And if there are any native spring chinook left, I'd like to think that is where they are and that's why nobody ever sees them.
-
Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought summers and winters were genetically distinct. If they spawned at the same time and place they wouldn't be, they would be just one big run.
well they are not a separate species or sub-species. Best i know they are separated mostly by geographic factors - falls, cascades and distance. The fishways at Stamp Falls has allowed previously separated races of summer & winter run co-mingle & from what I understand it hasn't been good for the summer runs.
-
Short rivers on the Island such as the Cowichan, Nanaimo & Marble have late spring/ earlu summer chinook. They hold in the lakes and then at least for the Cowichan. spawn among the later returning fish. It sounds like a non-dominant genetic trait like red hair or left handedness.
-
Not it's own unique run, but I've caught a few Coq stragglers over the years in the Chilliwack.
Silverhope also has SRs and likely has as many if not more fish on average. The uper Chilliwack may have a similar 'smell' as the Silverhope and attract some strays. As many 10% of any salmonid run does not return to their natal stream but as potential colonizers. I think the average return to the 2 SR river near Hope together total about 200 to 400 per year so some will show up elsewhere.
-
Silverhope also has SRs and likely has as many if not more fish on average. The uper Chilliwack may have a similar 'smell' as the Silverhope and attract some strays. As many 10% of any salmonid run does not return to their natal stream but as potential colonizers. I think the average return to the 2 SR river near Hope together total about 200 to 400 per year so some will show up elsewhere.
Definitely could be Silverhope fish, although I don't think that run is even 100 fish anymore.
-
Short rivers on the Island such as the Cowichan,
The Cowichan river is 47 kilometres long.
-
The Cowichan river is 47 kilometres long.
the Yukon River is 3,190 km.