Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: kosanin kosher salt on August 13, 2021, 09:09:23 AM

Title: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: kosanin kosher salt on August 13, 2021, 09:09:23 AM
I always hear the Fraser is shut for good, a very long time or forever for recreational fisheries. How does the dfo or psc or whoever know what happens in the future like next month or next year?
Fishery projections and estimates have many times been met and wildly off.
Next year we’re hoping for that big sockeye run and it seems like this 2021 year the sockeye run is picking up steam to excessively exceed the 1 million fish pre season estimate.
I believe if it’s a ‘good’ year they should open to recreational bar and bottom bouncing anglers who only take 1% of the fish.
It ain’t fair that anglers get the shits,
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: kosanin kosher salt on August 13, 2021, 09:16:16 AM
Thank you and good for the advocates of recreational fisheries of the fraser pink, chinook and sockeye. Too many anglers sit on the side and wait for an opening and let a few individuals and businesses do the hard work
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 13, 2021, 09:33:01 AM
the salmon fishery is currently closed. Sturgeon is open and going full bore. The Fraser is expected to open for everything in November. Maybe there will be a pink opening in tidal section if the run is large enough? Wait and see!
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: 4x4 on August 13, 2021, 11:03:31 AM

When the Fraser gets to 70 fahrenheit in passed years DFO has closed it to all Salmon and Sturgeon fishing. A few times this summer it has reached that temperature.

This temperature is dangerous for Sturgeon/Salmon since many may not recover from the fight.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 13, 2021, 11:33:12 AM
I always hear the Fraser is shut for good, a very long time or forever for recreational fisheries. How does the dfo or psc or whoever know what happens in the future like next month or next year?
Fishery projections and estimates have many times been met and wildly off.
Next year we’re hoping for that big sockeye run and it seems like this 2021 year the sockeye run is picking up steam to excessively exceed the 1 million fish pre season estimate.
I believe if it’s a ‘good’ year they should open to recreational bar and bottom bouncing anglers who only take 1% of the fish.
It ain’t fair that anglers get the shits,

I hear ya, used to BB the Fraser when whonnack gillnet catches were over 100. 
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 13, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
98 thousand sockeye estimated passing the mission counting station yesterday.

Thats almost half of last years total return lol
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Roderick on August 13, 2021, 02:28:33 PM
The real problem isn't we recreational fishers, it's the commercial guys.  For some reason that I don't understand, the only time we get a rec opening is when there is enough fish for a commercial fishery.  The commies get 95% of the allocation and we get 5%. Funnily enough, the rec fishery contributes more to GDP then the com does, after you take EI and other benefits in to account.  I actually saw a study (years ago) that after everything is taken in to account, the com fishery actually loses money for the country.

Why the two fisheries are tied together like this I have no idea, as this relationship was decided years ago when fish stocks were still healthy. 

Well things have changed (it's 2021), and I suggest there needs to be a re-think about this. 
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Alomar on August 13, 2021, 07:28:43 PM
I can’t take my 8 year old to catch a humpy in the river but I can buy salmon off my neighbor who’s native….sad times
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Wiseguy on August 13, 2021, 07:58:59 PM
I hope the Fraser is open for Sockeye next yr. 2018 was a good season. Had a buddy come down from the Yukon and we limited out everyday he was here. Good times.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Alomar on August 13, 2021, 08:27:21 PM
It won’t be open
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 13, 2021, 08:57:05 PM
I can’t take my 8 year old to catch a humpy in the river but I can buy salmon off my neighbor who’s native….sad times

you don't report him?
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 13, 2021, 08:59:46 PM
[] For some reason that I don't understand, the only time we get a rec opening is when there is enough fish for a commercial fishery....

that's not true. There have been many years the river has been open, yes for sockeye and there was no commercial fishery.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Alomar on August 13, 2021, 10:19:02 PM
Haha no , this has been happening for years, I grew up with a couple guys who fish a couple months of the year and sell their fish and their families are taken care of ,,, reporting one guy won’t do anything, needs to be a change in government, as I’m sure sure your aware of,, look , I don’t blame these guys one bit , if I was in their boat I’d probably do the same thing, I respect the past, I respect the culture , it’s 2021, everyone needs to be treated equal staring now,,,,,I apologize for the negativity but it’s frustrating, I’m out on this one
Tight lines
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 13, 2021, 10:34:05 PM
ok, I understand what you are saying. However I've known people who complain about it ferociously but buy the fish anyway 'cause it was from a 'friend'.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Alomar on August 13, 2021, 11:05:43 PM
I don’t buy fish
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Spoonman on August 14, 2021, 09:19:39 AM
........rec salmon fishing on the fraser is done.....accept it....habitat degradation .... climate change....and the big bar slide....lid on the coffin is nailed shut...maybe a pink opening or two in the next decade is the best case scenario......
 
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: firstlight on August 14, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
Unless you are FN forget about fishing the Fraser.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Eric Berube on August 14, 2021, 03:54:43 PM
Can someone help me here to understand why recreational fishing is closed in the Fraser? I went today fishing for Sturgeon and so many Natives had the river from shore to shore block with fishing nets?

What is more dangerous to protect the spicies, recreational or commercial fishing?

I'm in shock!
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: kosanin kosher salt on August 14, 2021, 04:56:44 PM
How about some fairness I’d say, 1% is still only 1% and somehow we can’t even get that
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 14, 2021, 05:22:36 PM
SCOC set out the priorities close to 40 years ago:

1st - Conservation - i.e. minimum spawning escapement or whatever can be achieved if that many fish are not available.

2nd - First Nations harvest

3rd -  Commercial

4th - Recreational angling

since then FOC/DFO agreed to FN to get some portion of a harvest beyond the food, social and ceremonial catch before the 3rd priority which is the general commercial sector.

In many cases with the Fraser recreational anglers were taking a much larger percentage of some species than some assume. Generally before the recent cost wide closures anglers harvested more chinook and coho than any other sector. It's not a minor take as some of you seem to say.

Second problem is in river anglers are last in line and many fish are harvested in the coast wide fishery. DFO puts far more emphasis on the Saltwater fishery than the in river fishery.

In river recreational fisheries for chinook have been provided in upper sections of the river where endangered stocks like Thompson steelhead, upper Fraser chinook and inter coho are not present. So it ain't true that Fraser anglers aren't getting access to fish. Just not around here where there are other options.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Wiseguy on August 14, 2021, 07:00:56 PM
Can someone help me here to understand why recreational fishing is closed in the Fraser? I went today fishing for Sturgeon and so many Natives had the river from shore to shore block with fishing nets?

What is more dangerous to protect the spicies, recreational or commercial fishing?

I'm in shock!
What are they netting? Endangered Fraser river chinooks?
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 14, 2021, 08:19:23 PM
What are they netting? Endangered Fraser river chinooks?

I think that window was opened about a month ago. As an example the South Thompson/Shushwap chinook are doing quite well and many have justifiably argued for a recreational opening for them from about Chilliwack to Hope.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2021, 08:06:28 AM
With with 8 inch mesh your not avoiding sockeye with the amount of sockeye that’s in the river right now. Hundreds of thousands of sockeye in river but they target the chinook that include a run timing of summer 5/2 who’s numbers are low.

Silly

Just give em a sockeye opening it’s the preferred fish and there is no risk to the stocks if they take a hundred thousand but instead they get an opening for for a few thousand chinook:

I guess the difference is for sockeye they first have to ask the Americans if it’s okay.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 15, 2021, 09:03:30 AM
then FNs in the US will also be allowed to net Fraser sockeye
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
They need food too
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Wiseguy on August 15, 2021, 10:08:02 AM
I think that window was opened about a month ago. As an example the South Thompson/Shushwap chinook are doing quite well and many have justifiably argued for a recreational opening for them from about Chilliwack to Hope.
Nothing justifies netting endangered Fraser river Chinook stocks. Keep the Gill nets out of the Fraser period. End of story.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 15, 2021, 10:35:19 AM
Nothing justifies netting endangered Fraser river Chinook stocks. Keep the Gill nets out of the Fraser period. End of story.

no food for thought there.

Certainly we'd all like to see gill nets out of the river for good and as soon as possible but change takes time. The late summer runs are not endangered so maybe we should also refrain from mixing apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2021, 11:24:53 AM
no food for thought there.

Certainly we'd all like to see gill nets out of the river for good and as soon as possible but change takes time. The late summer runs are not endangered so maybe we should also refrain from mixing apples and oranges.

Summer 5-2 are in the river and are considered  to be endangered. DFO still considered summer 5-2 to be in the marine environment up to august 20th

Part of the ration to keep it close to sept 1 as well as meeting FSC requirements as well as having an 80cm max size restriction in other parts of the coast.

Prime time in van Maine right now as you have the tail end of Fraser summer 5-2, abundant summer 4-1 and the start of fail 4-1s

To bad it’s close
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Knnn on August 18, 2021, 10:09:21 AM
 :(   :'(

"Illegal fishing rampant on Fraser in year of scarcity"

https://biv.com/article/2021/08/illegal-fishing-rampant-fraser-year-scarcity
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 18, 2021, 01:06:24 PM
there are FN authorized drift net fisheries taking place. For the current period you can see these here: https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html just scroll down to the current week

with the low sockeye returns of recent years dfo has been allocating chinook to FNs

general information about this year's FN fisheries is available here: https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html

Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: Knnn on August 18, 2021, 04:58:48 PM
I recognize that there are a lot of legitimate FN fisheries taking place, however, the article references information provided by DFO, which presumably was based on non-legit fisheries, be it FN or not.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada says it has removed more than 200 illegally set fishing nets and other gear from the Fraser River to date, and are calling on the public not to buy salmon that is illegally caught.

Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: Who Dictates the Fraser?
Post by: RalphH on August 18, 2021, 05:47:32 PM
if I recall correctly the number of seizures last year at about this point exceeded 400.

seizure of illegal nets is also evidence DFO  is pursuing it's regulatory responsibilities re: FN Fisheries quite rigorously.