Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on January 19, 2021, 12:45:12 PM
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(https://bcwf.bc.ca/wp-content/themes/bc-wildlife-federation/dist/images/logo.svg)
December 2, 2020
The Honourable Bernadette Jordan, P.C., M.P.
Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard
200 Kent Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0E6
Dear Minister Jordan,
I write you today to make you aware of BCWF’s position regarding proposed control pinniped populations in B.C. In short, the BCWF supports controlled harvest of pinniped’s along B.C.’s coast because there is currently an imbalance between pinnipeds and their prey, namely wild salmon, herring, and other fish stocks of concern.
There is now good science available to give some insight about what has happened to the pinniped populations in B.C. and how these out-of-control populations are affecting many species of fish. Amongst several other scientists, Dr. Carl Walters of the University of British Columbia has produced studies that show that Steller Sea Lions alone consume over 1,000,000 Fraser River sockeye.
Seals are also of great concern. Their population has also expanded wildly in the last 50 years. Though the seals consume far less from a total consumption perspective, seals are calculated to consume over 40% of chinook and coho smolts in the Salish Sea (Gulf of Georgia). In some river systems, it is estimated that seals can consume up to 85% of outbound salmon smolts. With predation levels this high, when these smolts are just heading out to sea, it is hardly surprising that some rivers get any more than a handful of adult fish returning at the end of their life cycle.
The BCWF also recognizes that ocean survival is problematic but there is little opportunity to influence this overriding issue. Controlling numbers of predators of endangered fish stocks is something that your department can control. For example, there are currently IFMP proposals submitted to your ministry for a managed harvest of pinnipeds here in B.C. These proposals are backed by science, would help save these precious fish stocks, would help increase food abundance for the endangered Southern Resident Killer Whales and other species, and would provide employment opportunities for fishers in many coastal communities.
These are all positive steps that could happen with approval of these IFMPs by your ministry. Pinniped removal in rivers in the USA Pacific Northwest indicate immediate, positive effects on returning fish populations.
Though we realize that a harvest of pinnipeds may be controversial in some segments of society, we urge your ministry to approve a managed pinniped harvest in BC.
We hope that you, as Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, have the courage to make this difficult decision and support the managed harvest of pinnipeds in B.C. The future of endangered fish stocks in B.C. is in your hands.
Yours in conservation,
Bill Bosch
President
B.C. Wildlife Federation
101-9706 188th St, Surrey, BC V4N 3M2 | T: 604-882-9988 TF: 1-888-881-2293 F: 604-882-9933 | www.bcwf.bc.ca
Posted with permission...
Nog
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Wasn't it the BCWF that pushed for a kill fishery on Skeena steelhead?
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Wasn't it the BCWF that pushed for a kill fishery on Skeena steelhead?
yes
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I retired to Parksville almost 3 years ago and fish the beaches and rivers in the area for salmon and cutties. IMO we have a huge over population of sea lions and seals at French Creek Marina , Little and Big Q, Englishman, Nile Creek etc. all of which have hatcheries. Any of these systems are worth implementing a test cull to record the effect on returning salmon & steelhead and outbound fry + smolts versus a neighboring system . The Little Q would be a good place to start . Seals in particular in that area are very smart and aggressive and have no fear whatsoever of anglers
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A trial or experimental cull was done on the Courtney - Puntledge system spanning 2 years about 20 years ago. There was no evidence it had any effect . Of a number of other measures tried the only one that worked was turning the street lights off on the Condensory Road Bridge however the city would not endorse this as a permanent measure.
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That's why these harvest groups are not asking for a select harvest at pinch points but instead asking to kill thousands to reduce the entire population.
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That's why these harvest groups are not asking for a select harvest at pinch points but instead asking to kill thousands to reduce the entire population.
And that's why this is not going to happen. Wmy, I keep asking for the data regarding toxicity of these pinnipeds, with no response ... have you heard anthing wrt this? Surely the public would be more receptive to a harvest if the meat was of some valu.
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Here's some hope, not for harvest but for deterrence:https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article247424320.html (https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article247424320.html)
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I too have my doubts, what we have seen the ENGO groups do to fish farming and the lobbying power of that, I just can't see a harvests of any scale that would help salmon being approved.
I have not heard anything about the toxicity reports although i don't believe it will be a significant roadblock.
The roadblock on a large scale harvest will be the Ottawa and the PMO. I just don't think it will happen in today's left leaning/Acidemia climate that a large scale hunt will happen.
First Nations are already approved to hunt seals on this cost and they simply are not. I seen the most ironic thing on facebook the other day. Someone asked Sweid how come he was not hunting seals but promoting it. His response was being his band had not approved or applied for a permit. That's pretty freaking ironic if you ask me.
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The Puntledge experiment initially had rather promising effects. However recruitment was reasonably swift in that other seals moved in to replace the ones removed. Had the experiment continued, the results would have most likely been quite similar to those realized south of the border.
Washington State Fish and Wildlife published a paper last summer indicating that the sea lions in the Columbia River consume between3 to 5 returning adult chinook/day. A cull program is now if effect on the Columbia, with 2300 sea lions removed to date.
Winter steelhead stocks at the Williamette Falls fish ways were down to < 750 three years ago and last year registered > 2500, indicating that the removals are working positively towards bringing an almost extinct stock back.
Dave: I have told you here and elsewhere that the results of contaminant testing will be released once the program has been completed and the results tabulated. You keep pestering requesting information that has not been collated from an ongoing project. You are not involved in any way shape nor form, and as such, simply are not privy to the program status nor the raw data collected to date. Most with any understanding of how research proceeds would readily understand that. There will eventually be results for all to see down the road. Patience is a virtue, try and afford yourself some.
While WMY protests that the FN's are not already engaged, he speaks with zero understanding of the matter, relying on FaceBook mutterings to support his thoughts. I suggest caution in that approach.
Directly to you WMY: I warned you on another Forum regarding your insinuations over the BCWF letter. I am only going to do so again this last time. I have the original copy in my hands, as does our Board, the Fed itself, and of course those it was addressed to. You want to verify any of that, feel free to contact Bill Bosch yourself. The number is listed on the letter. In the meantime, I strongly suggest you cease your rhetoric in this regard. Period.
Cheers,
Nog
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Directly to you WMY: I warned you on another Forum regarding your insinuations over the BCWF letter. I am only going to do so again this last time. I have the original copy in my hands, as does our Board, the Fed itself, and of course those it was addressed to. You want to verify any of that, feel free to contact Bill Bosch yourself. The number is listed on the letter. In the meantime, I strongly suggest you cease your rhetoric in this regard. Period.
Cheers,
Nog
I am not saying the letter is fake im just questioning how much the BCWF is in support of a cull that they do not share the letter on social media or on there website. Surly the fact that the BCWF is in support of a harvest is something that should be widely shared with its membership base?
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I am not saying the letter is fake im just questioning how much the BCWF is in support of a cull that they do not share the letter on social media or on there website.
Take it up with them. They support a HARVEST, rather than your suggested "cull".
Really.
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Dave: I have told you here and elsewhere that the results of contaminant testing will be released once the program has been completed and the results tabulated. You keep pestering requesting information that has not been collated from an ongoing project. You are not involved in any way shape nor form, and as such, simply are not privy to the program status nor the raw data collected to date. Most with any understanding of how research proceeds would readily understand that. There will eventually be results for all to see down the road. Patience is a virtue, try and afford yourself some.
Cheers,
Nog
it seems pretty reasonable to ask about such information if there is already a request to approve an IFMP.
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Dave: I have told you here and elsewhere that the results of contaminant testing will be released once the program has been completed and the results tabulated. You keep pestering requesting information that has not been collated from an ongoing project. You are not involved in any way shape nor form, and as such, simply are not privy to the program status nor the raw data collected to date. Most with any understanding of how research proceeds would readily understand that. There will eventually be results for all to see down the road. Patience is a virtue, try and afford yourself
OK, fair enough, the data is not in. So perhaps you can tell us about the sampling protocols ... who is doing the sampling, how many animals to date, who is measuring the contaminants? Don't you think this should have been completed before people started advocating for this harvest?
If it turns out these animals are unfit for even pet consumption your project has been a waste of time, imo.
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OK, fair enough, the data is not in.
Once again, and I will not repeat for your benefit again:
You are not involved in any way shape nor form, and as such, simply are not privy to the program status nor the raw data collected to date.
Cheers,
Nog
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Once again, and I will not repeat for your benefit again:
You are not involved in any way shape nor form, and as such, simply are not privy to the program status nor the raw data collected to date.
Cheers,
Nog
Are you the spokesman for this group? Why is this group so secretive?
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Are you the spokesman for this group? Why is this group so secretive?
No I am no "spokesman". I am authorized to post what I do, and reply as warranted.
The group is far from secretive in many aspects.
You have been involved with science and scientists before.
From that you should well understand what you are asking goes beyond standard protocol for an ongoing study.
All will be revealed when the initial study has been finalized.
Until then - Patience Grasshopper.
Nog
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All the scientists I have been involved with love to talk about their projects; absolutely, they don't publish without studying all the facts and peer review but they do talk about their science. A lot.
This group does not do that and the sceptic in me wonders why.
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The Puntledge experiment initially had rather promising effects. However recruitment was reasonably swift in that other seals moved in to replace the ones removed. Had the experiment continued, the results would have most likely been quite similar to those realized south of the border.
Cheers,
Nog
there was also many complaints about the noise (riffle shots) and a perception this made the area unsafe. FWIW it took a lot more shots than 30 to kill 30 or so seals.
As far as "early promise", the only promising thing was dead seals. Subsequent returns of salmon showed no discernible difference in returns. Of the many things tried the only things that was shown to actually produce a result was turning off the bridge and street lights on the Condensory Road Bridge.
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Just as an aside,... Due to the water conditions at Cap this year, the hatchery decided to release all the smolts (coho, chinook, and steelhead) on the same day. I wasn't there personally, but I spoke with someone that counted 30 seals at the mouth that day. There are usually 4 resident seals. It must make a big difference.
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anyone remember the line up of Bull Trout and cutthroat in the Chehalis hatchery outlet channel before the big fry release?
I heard they netted all those fish and moved them miles away. Reportedly they were back within days.
No one clamors for a wild bull trout or cutthroat cull.
BTW the BCWF lead a successful campaign to triple the daily catch limit on trout and char in Kootenay Lake after the big crash of the kokanee population. The crash is now passed off as being due to 'over grazing' by the same fish, not the spawning channel virus outbreak that was first blamed for the kokanee decline.
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was there not a study done on the chilko that showed that a good % of the sockeye smolts being eaten by bulls were diseased and unfit.
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was there not a study done on the chilko that showed that a good % of the sockeye smolts being eaten by bulls were diseased and unfit.
Not sure if indeed the fish were in poor health, or that the fish were compromised by tagging. If I recall it was a theory the smolts could have had IHN, a virus that tends to impact sockeye and kokanee.
Most definitely the study showed the huge mortality by instream predators.
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don't know about any study on the Chilko. I saw a study on another BC system with dam controlled flow indicating bull trout predation could hit 70% depending on water flow. This was part of a successful effort to increase flow over the dam during sockeye smolt migration.
The relationship of predation to fitness is an old assumption; that predator tend to harvest the weak, old and the sick.
In relation to the pinniped issue it's been described as the "Dead Fish Swimming" hypothesis; smolts taken by seals are destined to be taken by some predator down the line because they are under-fit . Fact is salmonids are subject to heavy predation throughout their lifecycle.
The PSF has gone on record that the disease issue with hatchery smolts has to be taken seriously. It needs to be investigated and not discarded. Something has to account for the dramatic decline in survival of hatchery smolts once released. Sea lice infestation in areas with a high concentration of open pen salmon farms may also play a part in high predation of young salmon in general.
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The PSF has gone on record that the disease issue with hatchery smolts has to be taken seriously. It needs to be investigated and not discarded.
What disease issue?
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What disease issue?
I believe they were referring to the fact these fish are not checked for disease prior to release. You'd have to check back for further info though I believe it was Brian Riddell that made the specific comment.
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I believe they were referring to the fact these fish are not checked for disease prior to release. You'd have to check back for further info though I believe it was Brian Riddell that made the specific comment.
Are you referring to the Chilko sockeye smolts? If so, they are not hatchery fish, nor are they released.
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Are you referring to the Chilko sockeye smolts?
ah, obviously no.
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Ok, what hatchery fish are you referring to? I have not heard anything regarding diseased hatchery fish, that's why I'm curious.
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Dave I didn't say there was anything specifically. I think I will let my remarks stand as they are. Curious though, are you saying salmon in hatcheries never get any diseases or die from any sort of pathogen?
PS : just found this via a google search: https://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2017-0113
don't quite know what it means...perhaps you would understand it better than me.
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Goodnight Ralph