Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Ambassador on November 28, 2017, 05:35:22 PM
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Anyone else's blood boil when they watch this? Who the hell is supposed to be holding these [insert disrespectable word for guilty parties here] accountable??
I assume this can't be industry oversight - but more of a case by case greasy move by processing plants to save $$ - am I right? I know we have fish farmers on this forum - anyone care to justify this as in any way acceptable?
https://vimeo.com/238445419 (https://vimeo.com/238445419)
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Tavish Campbell was on cknw this morning speaking about the footage he shot for this film. The fish processing plant is doing nothing illegal.... it’s government oversight. The fish plant is just following the rules put forth by the government... or lack of them. :-[ He states this video isn’t an attack on the fish processsing plant but more the lack of rules for the disposal of the effluent. So incredibly gross.
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How do fish plants which process commercially caught wild fish deal with their effluent?
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According to some stories online, this effluent was treated to kill viruses. If that is so, the PRV supposedly found in the samples came from the environment, not the effluent. Considering PRV has been in BC waters longer than salmon farms, and is found in wild salmon, I’m not sure if there is a major concern, other than more poor optics for salmon farms.
Ever wondered where the blood and other body secretions from the spawning/sorting racks at Federal salmon hatcheries end up?
What about all those wild salmon that die every year after spawning?
Here is something else to concern yourself about:
http://www.bucksuzuki.org/images/uploads/docs/Hidden_Killer.pdf
When you compare this offal issue to what the city of Victoria dumps into the ocean, untreated, every day, or how agricultural activities dispose of their animal waste on fields beside fish bearing streams, it does lose some traction.
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/BCSFA_Wastewater_NOV28.pdf
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How do fish plants which process commercially caught wild fish deal with their effluent?
Well wild fish don’t have viruses, only farmed fish so it’s all natural and wholesome - didn’t anyone tell you that?
(sarcasm of course)
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/BCSFA_Wastewater_NOV28.pdf
They say they treat the water but like the application of Slice, that doesn't mean all the pathogens are gone.
They just spin the truth to say whatever they want:
Farm-raised salmon is B.C.’s highest valued seafood product, the province’s top agricultural export, and generates over $1.5-billion towards the B.C. economy, resulting in over 6,600 jobs.
- hard not to be the top agricultural export when most produce is not exported but consumed locally.
- generates over $1.5 billion towards the BC economy - are they talking taxes?
- 6,660 jobs - last time I checked, there were 1600 people employed by fish farms.
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http://www.brownsbaypacking.com/
https://www.bapcertification.org/Downloadables/pdf/standards/PI%20-%20Standard%20-%20Seafood%20Processing%20Plant%20Standards%20-%20Issue%204.2%20-%2031-December-2015.pdf
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http://theprovince.com/news/world/sample-of-b-c-farmed-salmon-blood-water-tests-positive-for-virus-critic/wcm/1f403d18-b85c-40e3-86da-fbe52bcd3198
Jeremy Dunn, executive director for the B.C. Salmon Farmers Association, said effluent is treated for pathogens, but not specifically PRV.
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He also said,
"Dunn said there’s no way to know that the PRV in the samples came from the fish blood, rather than the ocean water collected, since the virus has been known to exist in both. “Is the PRV in their sample coming from the plant or the ocean? I can’t know that.”
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such numbers are always inflated by what economists call 'multiplier factors'. As money changes hands and filters through the economies it pays for more jobs, services and goods outside of direct employment and operation. In other jurisdictions and industries, factors used to multiple the value of an industry or an development/operation have sometimes been found to be grossly exaggerated so
statements such as this should be treated with the proverbial grain of salt.
They say they treat the water but like the application of Slice, that doesn't mean all the pathogens are gone.
They just spin the truth to say whatever they want:
Farm-raised salmon is B.C.’s highest valued seafood product, the province’s top agricultural export, and generates over $1.5-billion towards the B.C. economy, resulting in over 6,600 jobs.
- hard not to be the top agricultural export when most produce is not exported but consumed locally.
- generates over $1.5 billion towards the BC economy - are they talking taxes?
- 6,660 jobs - last time I checked, there were 1600 people employed by fish farms.
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http://nanaimonewsnow.com/article/559893/salmon-farms-spewing-untreated-bloodwater-puts-wild-fish-risk-advocates
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http://nanaimonewsnow.com/article/559893/salmon-farms-spewing-untreated-bloodwater-puts-wild-fish-risk-advocates
“He said scientists from his department and Environment Canada are seeking clarity on the situation, including about test results Campbell says showed the bloody water was full of the piscine reovirus, a common virus in farmed salmon that is deadly to wild salmon.”
More fabrication and hyperbole from some media sources and activists. There’s no evidence of this. If so, show it. Now.
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“He said scientists from his department and Environment Canada are seeking clarity on the situation, including about test results Campbell says showed the bloody water was full of the piscine reovirus, a common virus in farmed salmon that is deadly to wild salmon.”
More fabrication and hyperbole from some media sources and activists. There’s no evidence of this. If so, show it. Now.
Um, except for the simple fact that the feedlot fish are known carriers of piscine reovirus. The burden of proof is on the phish pharms. Hyperbole is Dunn claiming the water is "treated" but can't or won't sat it's treated for the above mentioned. Try again Brian.
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Um, except for the simple fact that the feedlot fish are known carriers of piscine reovirus. The burden of proof is on the phish pharms. Hyperbole is Dunn claiming the water is "treated" but can't or won't sat it's treated for the above mentioned. Try again Brian.
Nice deflection. Doesn’t wash. Show me your evidence that’s it’s deadly to wild salmon as the article states. I’m waiting.
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Nice deflection. Doesn’t wash. Show me your evidence that’s it’s deadly to wild salmon as the article states. I’m waiting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
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He also said,
"Dunn said there’s no way to know that the PRV in the samples came from the fish blood, rather than the ocean water collected, since the virus has been known to exist in both. “Is the PRV in their sample coming from the plant or the ocean? I can’t know that.”
Who does Dunn work for? :-X
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Try to keep up Chris. As you will see below, PRV has been here a long time.
"Salmonid tissues tested for PRV by real-time rRT-PCR included sections from archived paraffin blocks from 1974 to 2008 (n = 363) and fresh-frozen hearts from 2013 (n = 916). The earliest PRV-positive sample was from a wild-source steelhead trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum), from 1977. Archived paraffin samples from 1974 to 1994 were from the histology laboratory of the Pacific Biological Station, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada. Blocks were selected to include a range of years and a mixture of farmed salmon and salmonids sampled from the wild or from enhancement hatcheries. Records related to many of these samples are incomplete, but in all cases, the year of sample collection is known. In some cases, tissues from a single fish seem to be distributed in more than one paraffin block, but these records are also unclear; therefore, prevalence for these samples is based on the known number of paraffin blocks rather than the unknown number of fish. As an estimate of the preservative that was used, tissue colouration was recorded when the paraffin sections were processed for rRT-PCR analysis: yellow (probably Bouin's fixative) or normal (probably Davidson's fixative); during these years, the Pacific Biological Station did not use 10% neutral buffered formalin (W. Bennett, DFO, personal communication)."
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Nice deflection. Doesn’t wash. Show me your evidence that’s it’s deadly to wild salmon as the article states. I’m waiting.
Well Mr. Science, take a few moments and deep breaths and consider viral mutations and the effects they can have on similar species.....
http://homepage.usask.ca/~vim458/advirol/SPCV/evolution/evolution.html
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
:)
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Well Mr. Science, take a few moments and deep breaths and consider viral mutations and the effects they can have on similar species.....
http://homepage.usask.ca/~vim458/advirol/SPCV/evolution/evolution.html
Grasping now.....Why not divine intervention as a possible cause?
I guess the answer is no. Shocker.
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Grasping now.....Why not divine intervention as a possible cause?
I guess the answer is no. Shocker.
Grasping? Hardly.
http://genetics.thetech.org/about-genetics/mutations-and-disease
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It looks like some people can handle this news better than others :)
"Scientists estimate that every one of us has between 5 and 10 potentially deadly mutations in our genes-the good news is that because there's usually only one copy of the bad gene, these diseases don't manifest."
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Bob, you seem to be familiar with the processing of these fish and I wonder if you know why the discharge seems to be so bloody? When I clean a salmon without bleeding it I don’t see all that blood and the discharge looks like it is almost pure blood. I saw some scales but there were no identifiable “chunks” or parts in the flume so where does the blood and/or the intense red colour come from?
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Just taking a guess Gord that what is being seen is the discharge of the boat holding tanks after transporting the fish. Maybe they bleed the fish out. I read somewhere that the guts from processing is used for fertilizer and other things. I could be totally wrong on this.
“The industry has made other improvements, he said. In 2011, it began treating blood water and wastewater that came from the loading and transporting of fish. That water was previously discharged untreated.”
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Found this on youtube Gord. the fish hold looks very red and you can see a person cutting the gills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glNSeDyPsjE
Then there is this method, Just kick them in there,,,,,,,,,ALIVE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLzageuH7QY
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Found this on youtube Gord. the fish hold looks very red and you can see a person cutting the gills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glNSeDyPsjE
Then there is this method, Just kick them in there,,,,,,,,,ALIVE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLzageuH7QY
Two wrongs don't make a right, Sure there are lots of other egregious acts that take place in the fishing industry. As other have pointing out dumping untreated sewage into the ocean is much worse.
More oversight and enforcement is clearly needed in the industry. Company can't runoff silty water into creeks, yet the government fails to act when a rock/mud/logjam slide block off complete waterways.
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I know that when I catch a sockeye I cut the gills with a knife and let them bleed out in the net and they bleed quite a while. Live fish must pump the blood out but dead ones don’t and they must process the fish immediately so there’s quite a bit of blood. My first thought was that the video must have been enhanced but I couldn’t see it.
Okay, back to original programming.
How long can the virus survive in the water, outside of the fish?
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Here's some reading on PRV
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
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“He said scientists from his department and Environment Canada are seeking clarity on the situation, including about test results Campbell says showed the bloody water was full of the piscine reovirus, a common virus in farmed salmon that is deadly to wild salmon.”
More fabrication and hyperbole from some media sources and activists. There’s no evidence of this. If so, show it. Now.
deadly
ˈdedlē/
adjective
adjective: deadly; comparative adjective: deadlier; superlative adjective: deadliest
1.
causing or able to cause death.
so this virus does cannot cause disease that can kill salmon? please clarify.
HSMI is characterized by mortality that ranges from negligible up to 20%, and morbidity (defined as the percentage of fish with indications of disease) that can be as high as 100% within affected populations (Kongtorp et al. 2004a)
Thanks Dave. As usual both side make the other read bilge water similar to what came out of the pipe. ;D
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Here's some reading on PRV
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
Thanks Dave. It looks like PRV has been around a lot longer then salmon farming. The only new thing is the abilaty to detect it. :)
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But I still don’t know how it is spread, just where. I understand it isn’t in eggs but I couldn’t find how it is transmitted.
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But I still don’t know how it is spread, just where. I understand it isn’t in eggs but I couldn’t find how it is transmitted.
Just did a quickie search and found this interesting read. Transmission is about 1/2 way in
https://thefishsite.com/articles/piscine-reovirus-prv-an-underestimated-pathogen-in-the-scottish-salmon-industry
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Yes, but it says that it isn’t transmitted through reproduction and it doesn’t seem to find how it is. It seems to me that how it is transmitted should be important to anyone trying to protect fish.
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I thought it was transmitted vertically but someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Back when I did that stuff we disinfected our Cultus sockeye eggs in an iodine based liquid to kill viruses. Pretty sure it is standard hatchery procedure everywhere. Back then the bad virus was IHNv and this product was said to kill it. My guess is it will kill PRV as well, and I would be surprised if salmon farmers did not use this relatively cheap and effective method to disinfect their eggs at their hatchery.
This would of course mean the fish being transferred to net pens (what the most recent fuss is all about) would be PRV free or would have picked it up from another source. I’m sure I’ve oversimplified this but it seems easy enough to test.
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2016/10/15/Morton-Sues-DFO-Salmon/
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d
so this virus does cannot cause disease that can kill salmon? please clarify.
It’s been a matter of debate for awhile. Although PRV is strongly correlated to HSMI it doesn’t necessarily result in disease. The mode how it actually can causes disease is not entirely clear. PRV is ubiquitous in farmed Atlantic salmon, but they all don’t get HSMI just because they have PRV. If you read the literature on it you will find that Atlantic salmon can have high concentrations of PRV but never develop signs of HSMI. Other research has shown that wild salmonids from here to Alaska have likely had PRV since the 70s. Wild salmonids here in B.C. have been shown to have PRV but show no clinical signs of HSMI.
Researchers here in a recent study (Kyle Garver is the scientist who with other researchers looked into this) injected wild salmon with PRV and held them for several weeks and none developed HSMI. Recent work shortly afterwards with Kristy Miller did find what they believe was HSMI on this one farm under study. The authors from that study believe that HSMI could have been missed before during routine sampling of morts because the window when it occurred is not very obvious with current techniques. One also has to understand that this particular farm was heavily studied so the likelihood to find HSMI was much better. Obviously, it’s not practical to conduct an intensive study like this on each fish farm to find HSMI, but likely better diagnostic technology will be adopted that doesn’t require a research team to spend a whole year studying one farm.
It’s important to note that the presence of HSMI has only been found in farmed Atlantic Salmon - not wild Pacific Salmon. Even in Norway, where this is apparently a big problem according to industry critics, there is no evidence that wild salmon there have HSMI. So far, this has been found in farmed Atlantic Salmon. Not very surprising as most fish health work has been with cultured fish including those in aquaculture. Doing fish health work on wild salmon comes with challenges. It is thought that the quality of fish husbandry in aquaculture can influence whether HSMI develops or not. This makes sense considering that stress and environmental factors are known to leave the host more vulnerable to disease. So, when I see a media article that says PRV is deadly to wild salmon I have to ask the question where is this evidence. It doesn’t mean that it can’t impact wild salmon, but theories of what PRV is doing to wild salmon doesn’t equate necessarily to fact unless it can be demonstrated and documented.
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I thought it was transmitted vertically but someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Back when I did that stuff we disinfected our Cultus sockeye eggs in an iodine based liquid to kill viruses. Pretty sure it is standard hatchery procedure everywhere. Back then the bad virus was IHNv and this product was said to kill it. My guess is it will kill PRV as well, and I would be surprised if salmon farmers did not use this relatively cheap and effective method to disinfect their eggs at their hatchery.
“A study following Norwegian broodstock and progeny from 2008 to 2011 found that PRV was not isolated from eggs collected from broodstock with a high PRV prevalence, suggesting vertical transmission (from fish to egg) is unlikely to play a major role in PRV spread.”
Quoted from the study mentioned previously.
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Thanks for that Steve.
With recorded mortality rates as high as 20% it isn't beyond bounds to describe the disease as deadly. Mortality rates of up to 20% is within the range of serious human diseases like smallpox and cholera. Does the recorded mortality rate include mortality where the disease is a secondary cause such as predation or is it based? Could it effect other important aspects of the salmon life cycle like reproductive efficiency?
Many disease viruses can lay dormant in a host and not cause disease so PRV isn't unusual in this sense either.
One thing that is lacking in the claim the virus was in the fish processing plant effluent is the concentration of the virus (ie the same or close to the same as the surrounding water or much higher?) and were the viruses alive.
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I would add that in Garvers study he also injected cultured atlantic salmon with prv and found the same results as with the pacific species. This PRV virus found in the NW pacific has been found as far up as alaska and is genetically different from the PRV in Norway by 20%.