Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: canoeboy on October 05, 2017, 08:01:10 PM
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I recently introduced a friend to fishing and have taken him out for coho on the Vedder. But today he called me, apparently he had taken a trip to the stave river to try his hand at floating jigs for chum. He called me because he was watching a group of 15 people drag chum after chum up onto the beach slice them open take the roe and kick the fish back in. He was utterly appalled apparently the group of people did this about 40 times in the time span that he was there 5:30 till roughly 7. Not being aware that it wasn't legal he said nothing but eventually called me to ask. I told him to call mission rcmp and to call DFO. I implore everyone when you see this kind of senseless act call immediately. It may be "chum" but it's still a natural resource. That could very much eventually be going the ways of the until recently pinks..
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disgusting.
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make sure you tell him to report what hes sees to rapp
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/natural-resource-stewardship/natural-resource-law-enforcement/conservation-officer-service/cos-rapp
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so yes return to my sons question is this legal
what is your limit of roe i thought it was only four skeens
that would equal two fish
but i cant find anything in the regs
if you can find it please post it
then we can call and bust there arses
but lets say you caught two does
keep them and the roe
i catch two does but dont want the roe lol :P
am i allowed to give it to you
or do i put it in the river it drifts down
and you pick it up
what are the rules on this
but people raping the bottom killing and then just keeping the roe
somehow that seems wrong to me
cnm
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See page 9 of http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/1719/fishing_synopsis_2017-19_provincial.pdf
Roe… you must not have more than 1 kg of
roe (fish eggs) in your possession for use
as bait unless the roe was obtained from a
commercial source that lawfully obtained
that roe, or you have in your possession
the freshly dressed fish from which the
roe in excess of 1 kg was taken. Carry a
receipt with you if you purchased roe from
a commercial source
This is nothing but flat out poaching on a large scale. Completely indefensible
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ok thank you danl
that means we can bust them
you need the fish to prove where it came from
thanks cnm
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That is bloody sickening. I'm a pretty timid person but that would prompt me to at least try and video the scene and discretely follow them back to their vehicles and record registrations. Bastards.
Need to ban roe as a bait.
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Need to band roe as bait.... hmmm? ,,another nimrod statement, well said Knnn,,,youll have plenty of support on that statement here. BTW roe also is a delicacy to Eastern euros
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Well this explains the male:female ratio on the Stave most years. Imagine what happens on the rivers that we don't notice... ::)
Last fall I found two garbage bags on Burke mountain with about 20 rotting chum carcasses inside. Most likely all poached from the Coquitlam river... :-[
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Need to band roe as bait.... hmmm? ,,another nimrod statement, well said Knnn,,,youll have plenty of support on that statement here. BTW roe also is a delicacy to Eastern euros
Island is bait ban. Why can't the mainland be as well? Most of the time I have seen "gut and chuck", it's been greedy fisherman trying to fill their freezer with bait. Rarely is it large scale like what has been described here. This could indeed be a delicacy food harvest, or they could be selling roe to someone for bait (It's something like 12 bucks a pound now which isn't bad $$$ for a morning of "work").
There has been a group of 10 Russian guys on the lower nanaimo doing the same thing for weeks now. Taking roe out of female chum by the bucket load. Very few places you can use roe here, so unless they are selling it to a source on the mainland, I'd imagine it's being sold as food. They've been called in multiple times, sometimes two or three times a day. Hopefully They've been caught in the last couple weeks I've been gone.
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Saw two half rotted and gutted Coho does lying on the rocks up near Alison.
Cant wrap my head around that one ...
The Stave scenario described is brutal. Disgusting
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...could be selling roe to someone for bait (It's something like 12 bucks a pound now which isn't bad $$$ for a morning of "work").
Probably a few pounds of roe per fish. If the fine upstanding citizens the OP described really harvested 40 chum, that could easily be worth $1000+. Hopefully a crackdown comes down hard as that's just too profitable for some people not to engage in such behavior.
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You know I'm not a fan of wishing misfortune on anyone but one day it would sure be interesting to hear that poachers at the Stave are reporting vehicle vandalism in the form of several rotting carcasses being poured into their vehicles, aromatically changing their outlook on results of poaching.
I would certainly bet that the poachers would get the subtle hint.
Or a juicy carcass tucked up nicely around the engine or exhaust system will immediately signal to the poacher that he has been closely watched and should seriously stop doing what he's doing.
Again, both scenarios create some work on the teacher so a very simple and highly effective approach is to find the ripest and juiciest carcass you can find and then gently lay it across the bottom of the windshield so that all the aromatic splendor of a juicy decaying salmon drip into the air intake vents giving the poacher a long lasting memory of what it means to waste, steal and needlessly kill.
I don't encourage this highly effective action.
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Bait ban?? Dude stick to your spinners and your girlfriend and keep your opinions on others choice of fishing to yourself
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Sounds like a group of caviar fisherman , not guys looking for bait . Hatchery rivers don't need bait bans
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Where abouts on the Stave was this done? I've heard of stuff like this happening on the West side of the river near the dam in the past but not on such a large scale.
I like Reibers idea, but carrying that many stinky old rotting chums up sounds like a smelly mess. :o
Better solution would be taking photos and even video of them doing such action, calling the RCMP/ CO's and giving them the evidence. Since most likely these idiots will make their presense again on the river.
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Bait ban?? Dude stick to your spinners and your girlfriend and keep your opinions on others choice of fishing to yourself
was that really needed? in case you need a reminder this is a discussion form.
i hate to say it but if the only way cupcakes is gonna change is if people start calling out what they see. everyone needs to be vigilant. who cares if the person your confronting gets all pissy. maybe they will stop and think as to why people are giving them a hard time.
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I have seen it many times by jet boats on the middle arms (away from prying eyes).
Snag some chum, rip the roe, then go sturgeon fishing.
Call RAPP.
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Last fall I found two garbage bags on Burke mountain with about 20 rotting chum carcasses inside. Most likely all poached from the Coquitlam river... :-[
Yep. A major problem on that flow for sure. I have personally called the RAPP LINE for 3 separate incidents, one was under the KW train bridge where 3 guys were ripping and gutting doe chums in mud water on a sunday morning!
Just call in, give all the details and leave the rest to the authorities. No point of a verbal exchange with these idiots IMO.
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I love chum caviar, but man, this is disgusting. If you are certain they are Russians, don't engage them.
Not because they are Russian, but because of the type of people they are.
They play by different rules until they land in the hands of Canadian law enforcement. Then they learn a few lessons.
O.R.R. is the best way to go.
Rieber, the stinky chum scenario won't deter them. They will find you and do to you what they do to the chum.
People like that often come from an environment of lawlessness. They think they are above the law until they aren't any more.
Not worth it, really.
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I never even guessed there to be Chum roe poachers. I remember seeing this add and now wonder if this is related? https://abbotsford.craigslist.ca/for/d/fresh-pink-roe/6320615053.html (https://abbotsford.craigslist.ca/for/d/fresh-pink-roe/6320615053.html)
So sickening and sad.
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...delete post please.
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It's a nice absolute killing field out there right now for dirty chum. Some creeks r dry and chum are sitting in pools by the thousands.
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The CO's said they were going to be patrolling the river today and were in a pretty big uproar on what I described. Havnt been out too check if their words were true though. And it wasn't Russians but if it were I'd say to stay away and call the authorities for sure. Been there done that. Roe ban is not the answer the answer is an actual test to get a fishing licence and then more officers....in my opinion. Ill be out and about this weekend trying to keep an eye on people.
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The CO's said they were going to be patrolling the river today and were in a pretty big uproar on what I described. Havnt been out too check if their words were true though. And it wasn't Russians but if it were I'd say to stay away and call the authorities for sure. Been there done that. Roe ban is not the answer the answer is an actual test to get a fishing licence and then more officers....in my opinion. Ill be out and about this weekend trying to keep an eye on people.
We did see the dfo copter this morning while we were fishing. River was a gong show for sure and I can't imagine what the long weekend's gonna be like there. Time to go bar fishing!
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Big Block fox, yes that was totally needed, whenever you think your choices are better than others etc I believe it's time to call BS and remind them a tackle box choice is off limits. When salmon start swimming downstream after spawning I'll change my opinion
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I think we need bait bans on many streams including some hatchery streams. These could be seasonal. Why? reduce harm to trout, particularly cutthroat and parr/smolt steelhead.
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Ralph, sports fisherman have such little impact on stocks that dividing us further over legal choices on fishing seems totally absurd, scientists have figured this out long ago and lobbyist have done this part already
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Ralph, sports fisherman have such little impact on stocks that dividing us further over legal choices on fishing seems totally absurd, scientists have figured this out long ago and lobbyist have done this part already
Sports anglers can have major impacts on low population non-commercial stocks such as cutthroat and other resident trout and char species. Your view is a very blinkered view that only species you target matter.
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Anyone get a contact number? I could really use a good line on some cheap roe ;D
Just got back from army navy, they want 9.99 for a 1/2 pound of mushy old salted roe :o Their frozen boraxed stuff is 15-17 a pound... I thought barrys was robbing folks at 12.50 pound but it looks like they are the best deal in town!
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Jesus is that really the going rate for Roe?? I havnt bought roe in years I just cure my own. Must have saved a crap ton of money....wonder where it all went ;)
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Was up there today in my tin boat & outboard.
On the other side from the Western Gong Show.
I could see them though. Didn't see to many being bonked. maybe just not looking at the right times.
Only had one strike, something pretty big grabbed my jig and screamed down stream with it and just as I started getting some line back it spit the hook. :-\
Saw the chopper come over and go up and down the river a few times maybe 100 feet off the deck.
I was wondering about it as it did not have any registration numbers on it anywhere.
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Well good to see that they may be taking it seriously. I put them on speed dial so you can bet your freshly cured roe I'll be using it.
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Wait, there are that many Chum in the Stave already??? It's only Oct 6. Stave is a gong show though, flossers galore so this does not surprise me in the least....unfortunately. :(
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Ralph I was as the stave about a week ago and hit 4 smolts on a 1/2 croc fishing for coho. The croc was just a bit smaller than the smolts. I think as long as people are fishing by catch will be inevitably.
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Need to band roe as bait.... hmmm? ,,another nimrod statement, well said Knnn,,,youll have plenty of support on that statement here. BTW roe also is a delicacy to Eastern euros
I agree, roe is a delicacy in many countries throughout the world, and it may be that the Stave incident was to supply this market. However, I have seen a lot of gut and chuck, fish referred to as roe wagons, preferential/exclusive retention of females etc. So, if banning the use of roe could help in anyway to preserve fish stocks (I admit I have no proof it would) and/or minimize ill treatment, I would be more than happy with a bait ban. It's not as if we are short of different methods of fishing, and salmon are not difficult to catch on Vancouver Island or up the Squamish system, without bait.
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I agree, roe is a delicacy in many countries throughout the world, and it may be that the Stave incident was to supply this market. However, I have seen a lot of gut and chuck, fish referred to as roe wagons, preferential/exclusive retention of females etc. So, if banning the use of roe could help in anyway to preserve fish stocks (I admit I have no proof it would) and/or minimize ill treatment, I would be more than happy with a bait ban. It's not as if we are short of different methods of fishing, and salmon are not difficult to catch on Vancouver Island or up the Squamish system, without bait.
I'd have to agree if it meant stopping this behavior I would agree with a bait ban. I prefer to spin fish anyways. Might also help lose a lot of the garbage left behind by such people.
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Ralph I was as the stave about a week ago and hit 4 smolts on a 1/2 croc fishing for coho. The croc was just a bit smaller than the smolts. I think as long as people are fishing by catch will be inevitably.
...and your point is?
Mortality rates on small trout caught & released on bait is typically well over 40% & over 60%. With artificials it's well under 10%. A number of small rivers & streams with summertime populations of such fished should IMO either be closed through to October or have a bait ban in place until late fall early winter. Most of those streams don't offer much of a sport fishery during those periods anyway yet they receive considerable fishing pressure anyway.
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I'd have to agree if it meant stopping this behavior I would agree with a bait ban. I prefer to spin fish anyways. Might also help lose a lot of the garbage left behind by such people.
X2
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My point is it's inevitable as long as people are fishing. That's all.
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My point is it's inevitable as long as people are fishing. That's all.
ok but it's not at all related to why I think more extensive bait bans or fishing closures could provide benefits for local anglers.
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Gutting fish for roe is illegal, as are many other nefarious activities, barbed hook, snagged fish kept, over limit etc etc, so to save the stocks why don't we just ban fishing everywhere, !! Same thinking to banning roe in my opinion, hooking a Fish is inherently bad for all fish, you are going to do damage so get over the righteous catch n release all holly attitude that your better than others who keep and eat fish
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why don't we just ban fishing everywhere, !! Same thinking to banning roe
This is ridicules, If you cant catch fish without roe then you might as well not fish, I live on the island, 99% of our rivers are bait ban and yet people still fish and catch fish, and there is way less riff-raff around becuase it actually takes skill to catch a fish. How could banning bait be even close to the same thing as banning all fishing? Hatcherys exist to create more oppurtunitys for sport fishermen, they are not your personal fish farm, go to superstore if all your after if fish.
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A fly guy says ban bait, we'll I'll take that for what it's worth, useless rhetoric. If I want fish I can go to superstore hey?? So your telling me you support farming of fish, well done as that's where superstore gets most of their fish. That is brilliant to tell fishermen here they can stop retaining salmon to serve your pretentious needs. That's brilliant posting on a site full of fishermen who retain fish..bait fish and who post pics of retaining fish
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Gutting fish for roe is illegal, as are many other nefarious activities, barbed hook, snagged fish kept, over limit etc etc, so to save the stocks why don't we just ban fishing everywhere, !! Same thinking to banning roe in my opinion, hooking a Fish is inherently bad for all fish, you are going to do damage so get over the righteous catch n release all holly attitude that your better than others who keep and eat fish
I like to eat fish & frequently kill fish where allowed by law so have no 'holy attitude'. I am very specifically referring to small streams at times when anglers such as you tend not to fish there and when sport fish in sizes large enough to be worth catching are mostly absent.
Since the topic came up I added my specific input. I don't see this in ad hominum terms where one has to insult another persons attitudes or personality.
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Ran, or walked through all my Stave spots this afternoon after morning yoga. Only thing of interest seen was two fishermen with 20-30 plus foot long rods mounted on spiked in tripods, no reels. Like carp fishing rigs but good for your neighbors koi pond three doors away. Almost no chum yet at least down lower.
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In the spirit of harm reduction, I suppose it's best that the disemboweled fish are left on the bank to fertilize the river than taken home and dumped in the garbage. If this behaviour is gonna happen, then it's the best way that it could.
Cammer: I get it that you are a staunch proponent of angler choice and opponent to bait bans. But may I suggest that you learn how to disagree better. Your dismissive, even insulting, manner doesn't represent you well and may even do a disservice to the organizations that you represent.
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A fly guy says ban bait, we'll I'll take that for what it's worth, useless rhetoric. If I want fish I can go to superstore hey?? So your telling me you support farming of fish, well done as that's where superstore gets most of their fish. That is brilliant to tell fishermen here they can stop retaining salmon to serve your pretentious needs. That's brilliant posting on a site full of fishermen who retain fish..bait fish and who post pics of retaining fish
haha, once again you are ridicules, why do you assume I support fish farming? I am vehemently against it, however superstore does sell many fish that are sustainably wild caught other then salmon, and since all your worried about is fillin the ol' freezer your in luck because the fish at superstore comes pre-frozen. When did I ever say to stop retaining salmon? As long as its legal eat your heart out, I personally keep a few every year where legal. This is a site full of fishermen who care about fish, and I think most people here want their children to have the same opportunity they were afforded. If you could please explain how my "needs" of wanting a healthy fishery in 40 years are "pretentious" that would be great. And what is your hard-on for bait man? Like really, you do not need bait to catch fish, as you can see from my profile picture I also use gear, however I don't use bait and I still catch fish. Bait has a much higher by-catch rate, and fish love to inhale it making it very difficult to release the non-target species. The right to bait is not in the constituion, and a bait-ban has nothing to do with fish retention. Sad people like you are on this forum trying to sway people into thinking sport fishing has no effect of river health. You know whats even worse then hooking a fish? bonking it over the head after.
And Cammer: As clarki stated, learn how to disagree, all you have done is strawman, at least call me out on things I actualy said.
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Bait ban?? Dude stick to your spinners and your girlfriend and keep your opinions on others choice of fishing to yourself
You're a funny guy Cam.
I happen to use bait all the time - places like the Vedder, Somass... Where it's legal. I have nothing against it at all. In fact, I've even been known to selectively harvest does so that I can stock up on bait. That being said, I'm also not reliant on it, and if everything went bait ban, I'd be fine with it (less work too). I'm efficient in roe chucking, spinner and spoon fishing, jig fishing, and fly fishing. Diversify a bit, and then the idea of a bait ban may not scare you and get you up in arms as much.
I was simply saying what I've seen this year on the somass. It's disgusting. I've had guys snagging beside me, and when asked why, I literally recieved the answer, "This is the only way to get a doe so I can catch more fish properly." I've seen numerous, perfectly chrome females slit open and left behind. Its not for caviar, it's simply abusing the fish to get bait. If you put a bait ban up, then there would be way less of that happening. Simple observation and opinion. At least I've actually provided an argument rather than personal attacks. I'd love to see your defense now for keeping bait use and what positive effects that would have on stocks? The island bait ban hasn't seemed to hurt the fishing here...
Oh yea, also... Kitty's my wife! ;D
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You're a funny guy Cam.
The island bait ban hasn't seemed to hurt the fishing here...
1000x this.
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A bait ban wouldn't bother me at all, spoons,spinners, jigs and flies work for me. Haven't used bait for years and I catch enough fish for me.
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A bait ban wouldn't bother me at all, spoons,spinners, jigs and flies work for me. Haven't used bait for years and I catch enough fish for me.
X3
I've banned myself from bait a good while ago.
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I fly fish 80% of the time. When the springs and hos are in our local flows, I have to say that the roe chuckers are consistently the most honest fishermen. They always hook their fish inside the mouth.
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The funny thing is we're talking about banning bait,do you think any of the rippers and snaggers ect use bait? NO, so let's ban bait take away the main ways lots of us fish, myself included, 90% of the time for salmon and steelhead, and these other methods keep on going on, lol, like wtf, bait isn't an issue at all on these systems. Let's work on legal ways to fish and try to teach folks the proper way to fish.I know it's passed that point now, but I'll still teach I'll my kids the right way to fish. Cheers, Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
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I honestly can't remember the last time i deep hooked and had a bleeder float fishing rivers for salmon or steelhead.
I can however, on numerous occasions remember bleeders from spoon and spinner fishing.
Lake fishing for trout yes bait causes deep hooking no question.
Let's talk about a fly ban. After all, quite a few fish are snagged this way swinging flies.
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I am not for a bait ban as all it would do is encourage people to floss again.
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The government can ban whatever they want, I will use whatever technique is still legal and fish ethically as always. But overall if BC was bait banned it would not bother me at all, you can't stop snaggers but it's easier to enforce bait regs
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I fly fish 80% of the time. When the springs and hos are in our local flows, I have to say that the roe chuckers are consistently the most honest fishermen. They always hook their fish inside the mouth.
Uh tell us another one LOL. I've seen bait anglers snag just about everything that swims. I guess I'll have to take notes.
Say what you want about steelhead and salmon taken on a fly.
However every c&r study relates a simple fact they mortality rates for fly vs bait is that bait produces about 3x the mortality rate plus a higher catch rate and higher repeat captures (fish caught more than once). That adds up to more dead fish.
Let's also add the studies that show that par and smolts that eat roe cured with borax or sulphites often die because both care toxic to small fish
That said I don't favour bait bans in rivers like the V-C, the Chehalis or the Stave. Late season juvenile trout and salmon usually move under cobbles to rocks to over winter and don't feed so there is less worry about harm via bait.
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Ridiculous, try spell checking. And yes I will attack based on your attacks. Bait ban is an attack on my way of fishing. It's not going to happen here so not to worry. If the stocks on island recover to normal levels again,bait will return there.
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As other posters have said chum roe is valued for more than just bait. It has a high potential $$ so bait bans or whatever probably would not have prevented this incident.
It sounds like such a blatant and egregious violation that it's obvious these people could not have cared less what the rules are.
FWIW at least it happened on a popular high-usage system where there are more eyes that might catch this and also care enough about it to call it in. If this going on at the Stave then I hate to think what shenanigans are going on at systems with fewer prying eyes.
As a side note, would it be better to use the province's RAPP # or the DFO ORR # if one were to see something like this?
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Dan L. Same thing I wondered. How wasn't this seen nowadays?
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Cammer, go cry yourself a river and chuck bait in it. You really consider looking out for fish an attack? How about you call me out on one of my arguments? Or maybe respond to ralphH's comment about mortality rate? Face it man you are grasping at straws trying to justify your need for bait, honestly pathetic that what I assume is a grown man can act so childish.
Come to the island someday I'll show you how to cast a lure, it's really not that hard.
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I fly fish for pink and trout and I also chuck lure for coho & pink. But there is nothing wrong to entice a fish to bite a nicely cured piece of fresh roe at first light for those who want to do it and be effective and Cammer is not alone in choosing such an approach. If I live by the Vedder or another productive system and the river is within walking distance, then I would prefer to slow down my efficiency and won't brave the elements at first light with the crowd, and would cover all nice but ignored spots with jigs, spoons or even my Tasmanian Devil to hunt down a coho or two, fishing it much like hunting down a steelhead in a big run away from crowd. If I don't catch a fish, there is tomorrow and who needs to fill up the freezer with fish? I have an oldtimer friend who lives by the Vedder actually switched over to stricly spey rod strictly for steelhead just to slow down his steelhead catching with lures and roe. So to each their own. But for city folks who have only weekends to fish while the family allows them to be away for a precious day of fishing, showing up at first light with roe for coho/spring is probably their preferred way to do it, and they can be home early with some nice fish. There is nothing wrong with that. It is legal. Just because some dumb heads decide to harvest roe illegally doesn't mean others who collect roe and fish it legally have to pay for the sins of these dumb heads. Let's just respect each others' preferred way and not trash others who fish differently but legally.
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Fly, spin, pin, and ect. Catching fish legally and fairly is the main point to all this, throwing all the guys who chuck roe into the category with those who committed this act is an unfair statement. Those people who did their illegal deeds aren't anglers so I wouldn't call them as such and more along the line of criminals who break into cars or people who strip copper wires and pipes from buildings.
As Milo stated that it's best to not confront these people since they seem to already have knowledge into what they are doing and most likely will take actions towards an individual in a bad sense. Best to try and take a discreet photo or video of the people, maybe a photo of their vehicle and plates and forward it to law enforcement/ Co's
I think what we can all take away from this is just when faced with illegal actions of others is to call it into RAPP.
I've always wondered about how does cured roe effect other species of fish like bull trout and ect since they feed heavily on eggs during spawning season, or even steelhead as I know that roe can be deadly effective but if they are injesting it then will it harm them in the long term? (still prefer a bead and chunky dew worm combo)
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Steelhawk: I am not against any legal fishing method, to each there own. Preferably BC would ban bait in my opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion. I think it would do nothing except good things for the fishery.
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Uh tell us another one LOL. I've seen bait anglers snag just about everything that swims. I guess I'll have to take notes.
Say what you want about steelhead and salmon taken on a fly.
However every c&r study relates a simple fact they mortality rates for fly vs bait is that bait produces about 3x the mortality rate plus a higher catch rate and higher repeat captures (fish caught more than once). That adds up to more dead fish.
My point is on any given day more fish are snagged or flossed by other fishing methods than the bait fishermen. You love to argue with exceptions so be it.
What did I say about steelhead and salmon taken on a fly anyway?
The study that you quote, is that done on trout or salmon?
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steelhead mostly. I am not aware of too many studies on salmon excepting coho in which case roe produces moralities that are much higher than for steelhead.
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A few years ago, I read a comment by (I believe it was Bryan Niska) stating that bait is for little fat kids because it's easy. Another poster said fishing bait is alike to feeding the fish - no challenge in hiding a sharp hook in a blob of something they naturally ingest.
Fishing artificials such as flies, lures, yarn and jigs, OTOH, adds the challenge of fooling the fish into thinking it is a food source when, in fact, it's not.
Feeding the fish vs. Fooling the fish was the argument that finally swayed me in favour of the artificials (not to mention the stink, the mess and the stains).
It was then that I stopped cooking boillies for carp, curing roe and digging out worms.
My catch ratio dropped considerably in the first two or three years, but as I became more proficient with artificials, the catch ratio went up again.
Does that make me a better fisherman than the roe chucker? No, but I like to think I evolved as an angler and made my outings far more challenging and interesting.
If nothing works, I'll light up a cigar and just enjoy being there, regardless of whether I'm catching or not.
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I've brood stocked for a local river for probably 15 years now. I am guessing 25 to 30 wild steelhead hooked and captured by myself in that time frame and zero mortality, all hooked inside mouth near jaw bone on roe. I don't know about you fishermen but if your not on the ball fishing bait a Fish can easily bite and spit in a millisecond. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpd0hSoeI_I So if you think bait fishing is so easy? Then why are so many people talking skunks on vedder reports right now?? Doesn't seem that easy to me! People you have to face facts, fishing is a cruel sport, why do u think Peta wants it shut down , reefing any hook into a Fish isn't ethical treatment of any animal. You either agree with fishing and all its genres/ discipline s or you don't , don't try to be any better than a kid fishing a worm in a pond as its a game of death
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A few years ago, I read a comment by (I believe it was Bryan Niska) stating that bait is for little fat kids because it's easy. Another poster said fishing bait is alike to feeding the fish - no challenge in hiding a sharp hook in a blob of something they naturally ingest.
Fishing artificials such as flies, lures, yarn and jigs, OTOH, adds the challenge of fooling the fish into thinking it is a food source when, in fact, it's not.
Feeding the fish vs. Fooling the fish was the argument that finally swayed me in favour of the artificials (not to mention the stink, the mess and the stains).
It was then that I stopped cooking boillies for carp, curing roe and digging out worms.
My catch ratio dropped considerably in the first two or three years, but as I became more proficient with artificials, the catch ratio went up again.
Does that make me a better fisherman than the roe chucker? No, but I like to think I evolved as an angler and made my outings far more challenging and interesting.
If nothing works, I'll light up a cigar and just enjoy being there, regardless of whether I'm catching or not.
Brian Niska is a beek who writes his own headlines to improve his reputation. Before he moved up north I caught him red handed squirting scent on his flies. Now his nickname amongst the terrace guides is no fish Niska. That isn't an individual I would be basing my ethics on
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As a side note, would it be better to use the province's RAPP # or the DFO ORR # if one were to see something like this?
I'd start by calling DFO because it's to do with salmon but it doesn't matter too much. Both provincial and federal fisheries officers have the authority to enforce the regs. The important part is phoning it in.
If you don't have the numbers saved in your phone already:
DFO ORR (Observe, Record, Report)
Greater Vancouver: 604-607-4186
Outside Vancouver: 1-800-465-4336
BC RAPP Line (Report All Poachers & Polluters)
1-877-952-7277
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Agree on Niska,,heard lots of nefarious activities on his part. Could comment but I learned long ago not to be specific
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I'd start by calling DFO because it's to do with salmon but it doesn't matter too much. Both provincial and federal fisheries officers have the authority to enforce the regs. The important part is phoning it in.
If you don't have the numbers saved in your phone already:
DFO ORR (Observe, Record, Report)
Greater Vancouver: 604-607-4186
Outside Vancouver: 1-800-465-4336
BC RAPP Line (Report All Poachers & Polluters)
1-877-952-7277
I've called the RAPP line to report many infractions I've seen. They ALWAYS forward me to DFO. Anything salmon related even in fresh water the RAPP line doesn't seem to care. Sure conservation will do something if they are present and see something first hand but I've never even had a Thank you from the RAPP line.
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Brian Niska is a beek who writes his own headlines to improve his reputation. Before he moved up north I caught him red handed squirting scent on his flies. Now his nickname amongst the terrace guides is no fish Niska. That isn't an individual I would be basing my ethics on
Boy in the dog eat dog world of angling personalities I am glad that I have chosen to fly under the radar and remain a nobody (thanks Rod ;D).
Not so Brian Niska who among other things spent years organizing a campaign to convince MOE to ban bait on the Thompson but I am sure the ill will above has nothing to do with that.
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Went to the Stave this afternoon because I figured it'd be quiet... the Fraser and the Chilliwack/Vedder is open, the long weekend means people will be out of town, and it's a little early for peak chum season. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong ;D
Super busy but a gorgeous day. Cars parked on road from boat launch all the way up just past the park at the top of the hill. Anglers everywhere on the West bank. Water level very low. My fishing buddy and I struck out completely but here are some things I observed today...
Fishing by the numbers:
Snagged fish landed: 4
Snagged fish released: 3
Snagged fish retained: 1
Hooks found: 3
Barbless/crimped hooks: 2
Barbed hooks: 1
Number of illegal Russian roe poaching rings: 0
Number of people speaking a language that could have been Russian: 4
Number of sites covered with illegally dumped, used diapers: 1
Number of used diapers dumped in the forest: ~30
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lol.....so......no halibut sized unpinched treble hooks tied to 80lb braided line???????..
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Went to the Stave this afternoon because I figured it'd be quiet... I struck out completely but here are some things I observed today...
Number of used diapers dumped in the forest: ~30
Why are you walking around in the forest looking for loaded diapers?
Did you actually verify these were used diapers?
WTF is wrong with people - used diapers in a forest? Maybe these are adult diapers from a small adult woods nymph that has a little sphincter leakage problem and doesn't understand the need to properly dispose of poopy diapers. :o
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I saw the garbage with the diapers, it was a nice change from the grow op remnants and propane tanks in that area lately. I guess it was too expensive to take that stuff to the transfer station. Plus the green waste illegally dumped all along there, disgusting really. Here is the long rod from Sat~
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22382321_10154823741922751_8614037674908021824_o.jpg?oh=260ae970eb4541bc24ab1b140d62a94b&oe=5A43E121)
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Long rod indeed. Was he bottom fishing?
I went out today for kicks. They're not terribly bitey compared to what I got used to later in the season last year.
Lots of spooners back hooking fish.
Jigs still working real good to get them hooked nice in the mouth.
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What is that type of fishing setup called? Does anyone have a Wikipedia link they can post? Looks like it takes an engineering degree to set up.
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How on earth would one land a big chum on that ?!? Is there a reel?
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What is that type of fishing setup called? Does anyone have a Wikipedia link they can post? Looks like it takes an engineering degree to set up.
Looks like a European competitive telescopic carp rod. They can be up to 70 feet long and very light - made of special materials, usually in Italy and Japan. Top of the line rods can set you back 5 grand.
The concept is to drop the bait in a spot you are sure holds fish, rather than cover water. Not sure how they'd handle a chum, but they can sure handle good size carp. Most common length is between 30 and 50 feet. And yes, the idea is to forgo the reel and yet be able to reach distant spots. Not so complicated to set up as it looks.
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How on earth would one land a big chum on that ?!? Is there a reel?
fishing reels weren't invented until the 19th century but people fished without them and caught large fish like we do today. Atlantic Salmon were caught using long wooden poles 20 to 30 feet long with lines about 2 times the length of the rod tethered to the tip.
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Boy in the dog eat dog world of angling personalities I am glad that I have chosen to fly under the radar and remain a nobody (thanks Rod ;D).
Not so Brian Niska who among other things spent years organizing a campaign to convince MOE to ban bait on the Thompson but I am sure the ill will above has nothing to do with that.
He did that because the Spey community thinks that it will translate into more fish caught for themselves. So they can get their hero shots of endangered steelhead for the gram🙄 That bait ban sure did save that stock of fish. What's it down to now 250 returning?
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fishing reels weren't invented until the 19th century but people fished without them and caught large fish like we do today. Atlantic Salmon were caught using long wooden poles 20 to 30 feet long with lines about 2 times the length of the rod tethered to the tip.
According to Wiki..
"The fishing reel was invented in Song dynasty China, where the earliest known illustration of a fishing reel is from Chinese paintings and records beginning about 1195 AD. Fishing reels first appeared in England around 1650 AD, and by the 1760s, London tackle shops were advertising multiplying or gear-retrieved reels. The first popular American fishing reel appeared in the U.S. around 1820."
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I still dont get how the fish is landed... is it used like a crane to pivot the fish to shore? Although I imagine that would prob require 2 people..?!?
I'll have to go out ther and see if I'm lucky enough to check out his setup. Pretty cool to see
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According to Wiki..
"The fishing reel was invented in Song dynasty China, where the earliest known illustration of a fishing reel is from Chinese paintings and records beginning about 1195 AD. Fishing reels first appeared in England around 1650 AD, and by the 1760s, London tackle shops were advertising multiplying or gear-retrieved reels. The first popular American fishing reel appeared in the U.S. around 1820."
ya ok but those reels were more in the manner of a winch like this:
(https://www.theonlinefisherman.com/images/stories/CAPTAIN_Images/GaryAnderson/History_of_Fishing_Reels/02_History.png)
prior to the modern fishing reel most anglers fished with just a pole, line and hook, like this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Louis_John_Rhead_-_Izaak_Wolton_and_his_scholar.jpg/170px-Louis_John_Rhead_-_Izaak_Wolton_and_his_scholar.jpg)
and Atlantic salmon as large and larger than chum salmon were commonly caught on large poles without reels.
There is some information here: http://www.lax-a.net/fishing-in-scotland/river-dee/
The Dee has a deserved reputation as one of the world’s great salmon rivers. Since the 17th century, anglers have been sport fishing on the river for its famous run of salmon.
Victorian salmon anglers enjoyed some of the finest fishing in the Dee’s angling history and their innovative approach to fishing tackle design is still reflected in tackle today.With the advent of Victorian fly fishing tackle, the evolution of modern rods and reels had begun. No longer were salmon played on a ‘tight line’ or line tied to the rod tip, but rather a ‘loose line’ which ran through the rod rings. This allowed greater opportunity to land big Dee salmon, which the ‘tight line’ method was simply no match for.
I still dont get how the fish is landed... is it used like a crane to pivot the fish to shore? Although I imagine that would prob require 2 people..?!?
I'll have to go out ther and see if I'm lucky enough to check out his setup. Pretty cool to see
long competition 'poles' are usually an extenton piece with a smaller pole perhaps 1/3 the total length inserted at the top. When a fish is hooked the pole is pulled back hand over hand horizontally, the top insert removed and the fish landed.
FWIW it's common to steel people from the far east fishing poles without reels that are 12 to 15 feet long. This summer I saw one guy with a telescoping pole that must have been 18 feet fully extended at Fury Creek.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9fbU87gMrc
Chum fishing in Japan
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WOW DID THIS THREAD EVER GO SIDE WAYS LOL
so originaly we were talking about reporting roe poachers
what the limits are what you must retain in regards to carcasess
so i will digress and tell you about the awsome canoe trip we took on sunday afternoon
on the stave it was my granddaughters first canoe ride
7 years old went around inch creek hatch area on the stave
very low water toilet bowl very low
but she held her own i was quite impressed
new one in the making thanks canoeboy
oh then there was the 200 crayfish boil up
man thats alot of crayfish and beer for four guys lol
some of them were over 6 inches long
that takes alot of garlic butter
then it was the wifes birthday
then it was thanksgiving
thank god i went back to work today lol
cnm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9fbU87gMrc
Chum fishing in Japan
Wow he was out of breath.... must be lots of work fighting salmon.