Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on October 05, 2017, 07:59:32 PM

Title: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: chris gadsden on October 05, 2017, 07:59:32 PM
While cleaning up some garbage this afternoon at KWB Iwas pleased to see the CO Service and FOC out in full force including some working undercover. Tickets continue to be handed out.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: canoeboy on October 05, 2017, 08:02:14 PM
Good glad to hear of it!
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: zap brannigan on October 05, 2017, 08:19:29 PM
awesome, plenty to hand out i see absolute garbage happening everywhere on the river and im glad to hear theres tickets being handed out.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Fish Assassin on October 05, 2017, 08:45:23 PM
Do you happen to know what the offences were ? Barbed hook, retaining wild cohos, excess limits ?
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: ~IvAn~ on October 05, 2017, 08:50:57 PM
Do you happen to know what the offences were ? Barbed hook, retaining wild cohos, excess limits ?

The offence was "fishing with a red bucket"  ;D
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: chris gadsden on October 05, 2017, 09:02:30 PM
Do you happen to know what the offences were ? Barbed hook, retaining wild cohos, excess limits ?
I did not ask but the undercover work is the way to curtail many illegal activities around KWB where most of the fish taken are lined or snagged. Sorry state of affairs.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 06, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
I did not ask but the undercover work is the way to curtail many illegal activities around KWB where most of the fish taken are lined or snagged. Sorry state of affairs.

Word has it that DFO and Provincial CO officers will be out in full force this Thanksgiving weekend as it seems to be the time of year where the most rampant violations take place.
Lots of people snagging without licenses and the such.  ::)

Make sure you have your licenses and IDs with you, check your hooks, and write down the springs you catch as soon as you do.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: salmonrook on October 06, 2017, 01:12:37 PM
Drove by here last weekend and it was the same , shoulder to shoulder, fishing a 25 to 30 foot strip of water ,the fish don't have a chance.As for anyone else trying to fish upstream , while the fish that do make it would likely be stressed and extra wary.
 A solution would be to close the canal altogether . It has suffered from low water conditions for the last few years .
Time for conservation !
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Rieber on October 06, 2017, 02:22:57 PM

Lots of people snagging without licenses and the such.  ::)


Wait a minute - you can get a license to snag?  ;D

Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 06, 2017, 11:32:53 PM
Wait a minute - you can get a license to snag?  ;D

Smarta$$.  :P
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: avid angler on October 07, 2017, 08:02:36 PM
Salmonrook-

Although I don't think all fishing practices in the canal are acceptable or ethical. A closure is not the answer.

The vedder is a hatchery system. One of very few where anglers can retain salmon without any impact on future runs. It worries me to see so little education on how hatchery fisheries work, especially on the chilliwack system.

I see more and more posts on forums and social media by ignorant uninformed anglers rallying for restrictions and closures in the name of conservation. In fisheries where conservation isn't an issue. Vedder chinook both summer and fall are transplants.

Neither stock successfully produces offspring on their own. To put it simply at time of year the fry hatch their isn't suitable survival conditions for the fry.

With that said this run of fish is 100% hatchery. As long as the brood for coho and chinook is collected then literally every other fish could be harvested and it would not impact the following cycles run size. For anyone wondering more fish returning to the hatchery does not mean that they will spawn more fish. They have set brood quotas for all species. All the excess is sold as fertilizer and the hatchery does not receive any of this money.

I only bothered writing this to hopefully educate some people. Fishing opportunity for salmon has been reduced unimaginably in the last 10 years so it's downright idiotic to rally for closures and restrictions like bait bans, spot closures etc. in fisheries where catching and killing fish doesn't change a thing. There is real issues out there that majority of recreational anglers have no idea about because they don't see it with their own two eyes. Most people don't bother to learn because their too busy spiking their blood pressure freaking out about someone killing a hatchery chinook that can't even produce offspring.

I'm honestly terrified that if enough ignorant anglers continue to push to have our opportunities further reduced that the powers that be will actually listen and take away even more fisheries from us. 
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Steelhawk on October 08, 2017, 11:56:00 AM
Nice read and informative. I was told years ago at the Capilano hatchery by an employee that they too had the excess fish gone to egg farm or fish fertilizer plants. Good use of fish they don't need. As for all those 'ignorant' fishermen pushing for closures, I am not too sure if these are really fishermen. Perhaps there are some guys who want to help the fish but don't rule out they can be PETA members or vegans disguised as online fishermen who try to troll fishing web sites to paint an ugly image of fishermen to shut down our fishing sports.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 08, 2017, 03:36:28 PM
I thought the hatchery only used white Chinook Harrison stock yet reds can be found in this system.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: jim on October 08, 2017, 03:46:40 PM
The reds are a transplant from another rivers stock. Some Nahatlatch, or Shuswap river. Not really sure, but Dave or Chris G. prolly know.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: avid angler on October 08, 2017, 03:53:34 PM
Red chinook are Bowron lakes stock. Same story as the whites. 100% dependant on hatchery production
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 08, 2017, 04:20:49 PM
Intresteting thanks for the info. If that's the case they should let the natives net the river after they get their brood stock.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Jk47 on October 08, 2017, 05:30:17 PM
Salmonrook-

Although I don't think all fishing practices in the canal are acceptable or ethical. A closure is not the answer.

The vedder is a hatchery system. One of very few where anglers can retain salmon without any impact on future runs. It worries me to see so little education on how hatchery fisheries work, especially on the chilliwack system.

I see more and more posts on forums and social media by ignorant uninformed anglers rallying for restrictions and closures in the name of conservation. In fisheries where conservation isn't an issue. Vedder chinook both summer and fall are transplants.

Neither stock successfully produces offspring on their own. To put it simply at time of year the fry hatch their isn't suitable survival conditions for the fry.

With that said this run of fish is 100% hatchery. As long as the brood for coho and chinook is collected then literally every other fish could be harvested and it would not impact the following cycles run size. For anyone wondering more fish returning to the hatchery does not mean that they will spawn more fish. They have set brood quotas for all species. All the excess is sold as fertilizer and the hatchery does not receive any of this money.

I only bothered writing this to hopefully educate some people. Fishing opportunity for salmon has been reduced unimaginably in the last 10 years so it's downright idiotic to rally for closures and restrictions like bait bans, spot closures etc. in fisheries where catching and killing fish doesn't change a thing. There is real issues out there that majority of recreational anglers have no idea about because they don't see it with their own two eyes. Most people don't bother to learn because their too busy spiking their blood pressure freaking out about someone killing a hatchery chinook that can't even produce offspring.

I'm honestly terrified that if enough ignorant anglers continue to push to have our opportunities further reduced that the powers that be will actually listen and take away even more fisheries from us.
^^^Real talk^^^ Thanks for posting Avid Angler
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: avid angler on October 08, 2017, 05:32:41 PM
Intresteting thanks for the info. If that's the case they should let the natives net the river after they get their brood stock.
uuuum what? Canadian tax dollars pay for these fish. They are there for a recreational fishery. Not a food fishery.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: buck on October 08, 2017, 05:50:38 PM
Summer red chinook are fish from Slim creek , 100 miles NE of Prince Georage and spawn last week of August to the middle of Sept. Harrison whites were transplanted in the early eighties. No fall reds were transplanted. Red chinook that people are catching are actually whites that have red coloured flesh possibly due to their diet.They all have that strong white chinook odour.
 No need for natives to net river as they get all excess fish not required for brood stock. Fish do not go for fertilizer but are processed for human consumption.
It was calculated that about 5% of returning transplanted whites are from natural production.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: bkk on October 08, 2017, 06:57:35 PM
Finally the definitive answer on Chwk.- Vedder chinook from someone who knows! That issue has now been put to rest. Well done Buck.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Dave on October 08, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
Finally the definitive answer on Chwk.- Vedder chinook from someone who knows! That issue has now been put to rest. Well done Buck.
x2
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: greyghost on October 08, 2017, 10:29:27 PM
Finally the definitive answer on Chwk.- Vedder chinook from someone who knows! That issue has now been put to rest. Well done Buck.
x3
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: salmonrook on October 09, 2017, 10:44:40 PM
Salmonrook-

Although I don't think all fishing practices in the canal are acceptable or ethical. A closure is not the answer.

The vedder is a hatchery system. One of very few where anglers can retain salmon without any impact on future runs. It worries me to see so little education on how hatchery fisheries work, especially on the chilliwack system.

I see more and more posts on forums and social media by ignorant uninformed anglers rallying for restrictions and closures in the name of conservation. In fisheries where conservation isn't an issue. Vedder chinook both summer and fall are transplants.

Neither stock successfully produces offspring on their own. To put it simply at time of year the fry hatch their isn't suitable survival conditions for the fry.

With that said this run of fish is 100% hatchery. As long as the brood for coho and chinook is collected then literally every other fish could be harvested and it would not impact the following cycles run size. For anyone wondering more fish returning to the hatchery does not mean that they will spawn more fish. They have set brood quotas for all species. All the excess is sold as fertilizer and the hatchery does not receive any of this money.

I only bothered writing this to hopefully educate some people. Fishing opportunity for salmon has been reduced unimaginably in the last 10 years so it's downright idiotic to rally for closures and restrictions like bait bans, spot closures etc. in fisheries where catching and killing fish doesn't change a thing. There is real issues out there that majority of recreational anglers have no idea about because they don't see it with their own two eyes. Most people don't bother to learn because their too busy spiking their blood pressure freaking out about someone killing a hatchery chinook that can't even produce offspring.

I'm honestly terrified that if enough ignorant anglers continue to push to have our opportunities further reduced that the powers that be will actually listen and take away even more fisheries from us.
Sorry but I am not an ignorant uniformed angler or a member of PETA but an avid angler for many years . I have fished this system for years and have seen some really unethical things, it doesn't matter if the fish are hatchery , wild or otherwise.The standards have to be upheld for the method of fishing. Condoning this behavior by saying it doesn't matter its a food fishery anyway doesn't do anything to curb these poor methods.
The point being that this area seems to attract poor behavior and illegal methods , maybe because its the easiest area to snag or line a fish, that's the ignorant angler your talking about .
The fact that they do have "wild"coho on this system, I have caught several, is a testament to some conservation measures .
 I have not seen the hatchery that's located on the Chilliwack system , I know its up by Slesse creek , I have often thought to visit or volunteer there and help continue this important recreational fishery.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: cammer on October 09, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Salmonrook, you say you're  an avid angler and have fished this system " for many years " and you have never seen the hatchery? Guessing where it is lol..your argument just lost all validity...,   closing the canal, ..many years of low water??    Like avid angler said your way off base and another approach that takes away opportunity instead of the real problem. Enforcement.. way too many whacked out posts here recently. Thank christ that proper clubs and organizations actually make legitimate claims which affect legislation
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: cammer on October 09, 2017, 11:40:19 PM
Oh and Buck. Remember that the summer reds when in short supply have borrowed from.the Chehalis to meet quotas
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: RalphH on October 10, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
pending revision by one of acknowledged experts; the coho in the Vedder is a wild natural run with hatchery enhancement. I have seen estimates of the long term average at about 20,000 fish that spawn naturally per season.Best I know the % of hatchery enhancement of coho has been drawn back over the years. Sure you can argue they have been 'corrupted' by the hatchery fish but the coho don't need the hatchery to survive as the White Springs and summer reds do. Steelhead are similar - naturally sustaining with hatchery enhancement.

Pink, and bull trout are all natural stock . I think chum are almost exclusively natural stock as well with some hatchery enhancement.

Races of white springs such as the Harrison fish lack the enzyme that metabolizes the red pigment seen in red spring flesh though I guess some small % of the race does have it.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: CohoJake on October 10, 2017, 08:03:30 AM
pending revision by one of acknowledged experts; the coho in the Vedder is a wild natural run with hatchery enhancement. I have seen estimates of the long term average at about 20,000 fish that spawn naturally per season.Best I know the % of hatchery enhancement of coho has been drawn back over the years. Sure you can argue they have been 'corrupted' by the hatchery fish but the coho don't need the hatchery to survive as the White Springs and summer reds do. Steelhead are similar - naturally sustaining with hatchery enhancement.

Pink, and bull trout are all natural stock . I think chum are almost exclusively natural stock as well with some hatchery enhancement.

Races of white springs such as the Harrison fish lack the enzyme that metabolizes the red pigment seen in red spring flesh though I guess some small % of the race does have it.
  There was a study done in the 90s that showed quite a bit of hatchery coho were spawning naturally.  In addition, they release lots of unclipped coho (fry? parr?) in the lower Vedder tributaries each year, so there's no way of knowing how many of the unclipped fish are actually wild.  But yes, last I read the coho stock used in the hatchery was wild Chilliwack river stock, taken from 3 different locations in the system with different run timing.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: avid angler on October 10, 2017, 08:50:25 AM
Sorry but I am not an ignorant uniformed angler or a member of PETA but an avid angler for many years . I have fished this system for years and have seen some really unethical things, it doesn't matter if the fish are hatchery , wild or otherwise.The standards have to be upheld for the method of fishing. Condoning this behavior by saying it doesn't matter its a food fishery anyway doesn't do anything to curb these poor methods.
The point being that this area seems to attract poor behavior and illegal methods , maybe because its the easiest area to snag or line a fish, that's the ignorant angler your talking about .
The fact that they do have "wild"coho on this system, I have caught several, is a testament to some conservation measures .
 I have not seen the hatchery that's located on the Chilliwack system , I know its up by Slesse creek , I have often thought to visit or volunteer there and help continue this important recreational fishery.
If you think the issues caused by recreational anglers are worthy of closing the river then you are absolutely ignorant and uninformed. I am not saying they aren't issues that eventually need addressing. I'm saying there is 100000 other issues facing fish and recreational fisherman that need to take priority long before we even start to prioritize the flossing problem on the vedder
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2017, 08:59:12 AM
pending revision by one of acknowledged experts; the coho in the Vedder is a wild natural run with hatchery enhancement. I have seen estimates of the long term average at about 20,000 fish that spawn naturally per season.Best I know the % of hatchery enhancement of coho has been drawn back over the years. Sure you can argue they have been 'corrupted' by the hatchery fish but the coho don't need the hatchery to survive as the White Springs and summer reds do. Steelhead are similar - naturally sustaining with hatchery enhancement.

Pink, and bull trout are all natural stock . I think chum are almost exclusively natural stock as well with some hatchery enhancement.

Races of white springs such as the Harrison fish lack the enzyme that metabolizes the red pigment seen in red spring flesh though I guess some small % of the race does have it.

I think you covered this nicely Ralph.  It is interesting that more fall run red fleshed chinooks are showing up in the sports fishery.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: bobby b on October 10, 2017, 09:28:57 AM
I've had a few marbled springs in the past, the red parts being very light red. This season i got a red that was very deep red indeed. It also did not at all emit the acrid stench that the whites have.

Back to the title of this thread... The enforcement was def visible on the river this weekend. By any account this, imo, is a good thing.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: salmonrook on October 10, 2017, 10:08:54 AM
 Just saying they could close this section , just the canal , its at a point where you can see all the fish coming through .This would force people to fish upstream where they would have to fish properly ,not this "shooting fish in a barrel " approach....
Its unfortunate if they had to do this,this happened on the little Campbell with coho and Springs, its a 100% hatchery river and for years people were lining fish because of the size of the flow ,  they have reduced the limit and removed sections that were targeted for this method...
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 10:12:45 AM
I've had a few marbled springs in the past, the red parts being very light red. This season i got a red that was very deep red indeed. It also did not at all emit the acrid stench that the whites have.

While I have smelled the odour you are referring to, it only comes from fish well past their prime, IMO.

That said, yesterday I got a chrome bullet of a white spring, ocean fresh in appearance, not too big, maybe 13-14 pounds.
I was thinking of smoking it, but changed my mind. It's going to be consumed either BBQ-ed or as sashimi.
I dressed it last night, keeping the trimmings and bellies for frying in a mix of olive and grapeseed oil. It made for delicious dinner last night and lunch today.
I'll report on the sashimi in a week or so, after the deboned fillet has spent at least a week at -19 in my chest freezer.

Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 10, 2017, 10:21:30 AM
While I have smelled the odour you are referring to, it only comes from fish well past their prime, IMO.


The winter Chinook I catch in the ocean have that strong Chinook odor.  Even the 8 inch chinook grills you catch off the Fraser Mouth have the odor as well. Very strong smell on your hands after handling them. I think its like a tangy fishy smell
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 10:22:57 AM
While I have smelled the odour you are referring to, it only comes from fish well past their prime, IMO.

That said, yesterday I got a chrome bullet of a white spring, ocean fresh in appearance, not too big, maybe 13-14 pounds.
I was thinking of smoking it, but changed my mind. It's going to be consumed either BBQ-ed or as sashimi.
I dressed it last night, keeping the trimmings and bellies for frying in a mix of olive and grapeseed oil. It made for delicious dinner last night and lunch today.
I'll report on the sashimi in a week or so, after the deboned fillet has spent at least a week at -19 in my chest freezer.

An interesting and informative article on the colour of king salmon's flesh:

What makes king salmon flesh read or white (http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=738)

I consider myself blessed whenever I bring a fresh white spring from the river and put it on the kitchen counter.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: RalphH on October 10, 2017, 10:27:49 AM
I have fished sections of the Canal for many years and if your pick your spots and days it's possible to have a nice time away from crowds.

While I am tempted to say just close the 100 meters or so around the KW Bridge - all those yahoos would just move somewhere else, perhaps where I fish. Best to let them congregate where they do they can be easily observed and controlled.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
You haven't Caught very many Chinook then Milo. The winter Chinook I catch in the ocean have that strong Chinook odor.  Even the 8 inch chinook grills you catch off the Fraser Mouth have the odor as well. Very strong smell on your hands after handling them

I've caught enough red, marbled and white chinook to know, in both ocean and rivers. The smell you are referring to is called fish smell.
Nothing unpleasant about it, IMO. Some salmon have more of it, some less.
Read the article I provided a link to. Do you think chefs would rave about a stinky fish?

Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 10, 2017, 10:31:39 AM
I have fished sections of the Canal for many years and if your pick your spots and days it's possible to have a nice time away from crowds.

While I am tempted to say just close the 100 meters or so around the KW Bridge - all those yahoos would just move somewhere else, perhaps where I fish. Best to let them congregate where they do they can be easily observed and controlled.

I don't know if that is true, After fishing the Chehalis river system for years im convinced that probably 50% of Anglers out there don't like to walk more than a few hundred meters from their car.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 10:36:38 AM
I have fished sections of the Canal for many years and if your pick your spots and days it's possible to have a nice time away from crowds.

While I am tempted to say just close the 100 meters or so around the KW Bridge - all those yahoos would just move somewhere else, perhaps where I fish. Best to let them congregate where they do they can be easily observed and controlled.

Akin to the downtown eastside around Hastings and Main. Much easier to police when they are all together in one area.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 10, 2017, 10:40:36 AM
I've caught enough red, marbled and white chinook to know, in both ocean and rivers. The smell you are referring to is called fish smell.
Nothing unpleasant about it, IMO. Some salmon have more of it, some less.
Read the article I provided a link to. Do you think chefs would rave about a stinky fish?

I don't think its a stinky or bad smell. It is however distinctly different, not necessarily more powerful.  As for the quality of Chinook salmon I consider it to be the best due to its fat content. Its way easier to cook because it and tastes far better. No need to convince me
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 10:43:18 AM
I don't think its a stinky or bad smell. It is however distinctly different, not necessarily more powerful.  As for the quality of Chinook salmon I consider it to be the best due to its fat content. Its way easier to cook because it and tastes far better. No need to convince me

Ah, OK! :D
We are on the same page on this. Cheers.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: bobby b on October 10, 2017, 10:48:01 AM
I've caught enough red, marbled and white chinook to know, in both ocean and rivers. The smell you are referring to is called fish smell.
Nothing unpleasant about it, IMO. Some salmon have more of it, some less.
Read the article I provided a link to. Do you think chefs would rave about a stinky fish?

I  did a google search on White Spring smell and this came up.... your words Milo..

"The notorious Harrison white chinook run (transplanted to the Vedder) is the one with a peculiar stink. It smells like a decomposing fish that was left for a day in a plastic bag along with an open tub of dated sour cream. Compared to its smell, old Feta cheese is expensive perfume.

I can detect that stink creeping up my fishing line when I hook into one of those brutes. If I accidentally touch them, I have to wash my hands three times with odor killing liquid soap before being allowed into my own home after a day of fishing.
If you happen to transport one of those in your car, the value of the vehicle automatically depreciates 20%, as no detail interior car wash will ever rid your vehicle of the smell.

They are so stinky that they render your smoker unusable when you smoke one of those. No amount of brining gets rid of the bitter aftertaste. Despite that fact, you will see many people on the Vedder in October carrying some seriously dark (even black) fish to their vehicles and sheepishly state they are 'good for the smoker' when you look at them in shock while holding your breath."
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: bobby b on October 10, 2017, 10:54:14 AM
Anyhoo.... It has been my experience that the Whites smell very 'metallic' compared to all other salmon that I've caught.

I scrub 'em with salt and water before cutting into the flesh... this really does help get rid of the slime and odour.  I do like to eat them , but I do my darndest to keep any of the slime from tainting the meat.

Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: milo on October 10, 2017, 11:34:37 AM
I  did a google search on White Spring smell and this came up.... your words Milo..

"The notorious Harrison white chinook run (transplanted to the Vedder) is the one with a peculiar stink. It smells like a decomposing fish that was left for a day in a plastic bag along with an open tub of dated sour cream. Compared to its smell, old Feta cheese is expensive perfume.

I can detect that stink creeping up my fishing line when I hook into one of those brutes. If I accidentally touch them, I have to wash my hands three times with odor killing liquid soap before being allowed into my own home after a day of fishing.
If you happen to transport one of those in your car, the value of the vehicle automatically depreciates 20%, as no detail interior car wash will ever rid your vehicle of the smell.

They are so stinky that they render your smoker unusable when you smoke one of those. No amount of brining gets rid of the bitter aftertaste. Despite that fact, you will see many people on the Vedder in October carrying some seriously dark (even black) fish to their vehicles and sheepishly state they are 'good for the smoker' when you look at them in shock while holding your breath."

Yup. My words indeed. And they REEK of sarcasm - directed to people carrying excessively blackened springs to their cars.
Don't quote me out of context, please.  ;)
Try to find my real sentiment on white springs. It's out there, but you can't expect the search engine to do the thinking part for you.
Cheers.

edited to add: I feel the same way about many chum bagged from the Stave. Sores and everything. I just don't get it. :-\

Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: poper on October 10, 2017, 12:13:09 PM
There easy to clean when the meat just falls off the bones.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: hammer on October 10, 2017, 08:20:55 PM
I would like to see genetic studies done on fall Chiliwack red Chinook comparing it the original Harrison stock. I have not fished the vedder for years but remember catching chrome whites, reds, and marbled in September. There has been some very interesting information in this thread. Regardless of the origin or purpose of the specific strains of fish, there is no excuse for disrespectful handling and tactics which specifically snag fish. People who act like that spill over into other fisheries where there are not "put an take" facets of the fish population. To some degree, deterioration of ethics and take "fish at all costs" mentality on the vedder came as a result of the season ending overflow from almost two decades of sockeye flossing on the Fraser. From that point, thousands and thousands of people bought 10'6" casting rods and ambassador reels from every shop within two hundred miles the lower Fraser. Simply by casting a bouncing Betty and standing beside a hundred people in a line, you could bring home two beatiful chrome sockeye. Over the course of two decades, whole populations convinced themselves they were fishermen. Certainly, many of these people caught fish, but they aren't fishermen. In my mind, mastery of craft comes from a long apprenticeship and respect for craft and quarry. Compare snagging pinks and ripping at the end of each cast with mountain goat hunting and you get the picture. I don't think closing a hatchery fishery is the answer. Step up enforcement and education. I think shops and guides should have a role in education that goes beyond paying 200$ to "learn how beach fish for coho".
If you are bonking tail hooked pinks under KWB, you should be fined and have to go through an educational process. If it is called sportsfishing, participants should act like sports fishermen.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Fish Assassin on October 10, 2017, 08:49:00 PM
I don't know if that is true, After fishing the Chehalis river system for years im convinced that probably 50% of Anglers out there don't like to walk more than a few hundred meters from their car.

With all the break ins, can you really blame them ?
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: cammer on October 11, 2017, 12:52:45 AM
Well thought out post hammer.. it all comes down to enforcement and I found it very funny that the DFO was in full visibility this year at Sandheads trying to show all media outlets how they handle threatened " pink returns". Most old river fishermen say same thing that being checked by an officer was about as common as Canadian hockey teams winning a Stanley cup.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 11, 2017, 02:39:06 PM
I would like to see genetic studies done on fall Chiliwack red Chinook comparing it the original Harrison stock. I have not fished the vedder for years but remember catching chrome whites, reds, and marbled in September. There has been some very interesting information in this thread. Regardless of the origin or purpose of the specific strains of fish, there is no excuse for disrespectful handling and tactics which specifically snag fish. People who act like that spill over into other fisheries where there are not "put an take" facets of the fish population. To some degree, deterioration of ethics and take "fish at all costs" mentality on the vedder came as a result of the season ending overflow from almost two decades of sockeye flossing on the Fraser. From that point, thousands and thousands of people bought 10'6" casting rods and ambassador reels from every shop within two hundred miles the lower Fraser. Simply by casting a bouncing Betty and standing beside a hundred people in a line, you could bring home two beatiful chrome sockeye. Over the course of two decades, whole populations convinced themselves they were fishermen. Certainly, many of these people caught fish, but they aren't fishermen. In my mind, mastery of craft comes from a long apprenticeship and respect for craft and quarry. Compare snagging pinks and ripping at the end of each cast with mountain goat hunting and you get the picture. I don't think closing a hatchery fishery is the answer. Step up enforcement and education. I think shops and guides should have a role in education that goes beyond paying 200$ to "learn how beach fish for coho".
If you are bonking tail hooked pinks under KWB, you should be fined and have to go through an educational process. If it is called sportsfishing, participants should act like sports fishermen.

well said
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: wildmanyeah on October 11, 2017, 03:07:02 PM
Well thought out post hammer.. it all comes down to enforcement and I found it very funny that the DFO was in full visibility this year at Sandheads trying to show all media outlets how they handle threatened " pink returns". Most old river fishermen say same thing that being checked by an officer was about as common as Canadian hockey teams winning a Stanley cup.

Its true I have been checked 3 to 4 times a year by DFO fishing in the ocean. I have also took part in numerous creel surveys at the docs.  The steveston DFO office tho is pretty much solely devoted to policing sports fishermen. That being said a busy fishing day on the ocean my consist of 200 boats from Bowen Island all the way down to Sandheads. Its not hard for DFO to check every boat fishing in one day. Also the ocean has something called nature's conservation, When it windy the amount of boats goes down to almost nothing. 

I have never been checked by any DFO officer on the river. Despite the fact that they have Chilliwack, Mission and Langley offices for the area. Believe it or not DFO spend most of their time checking natives. A few years ago the natives did a freedom of information request and found out that DFO spent a far more of their time enforcing native fishery then the sport fishery. There is probably only 2 areas where you will find DFO checking. Vedder and Stave. Since enforcement officers don't count streams anymore you wont find them in any remote areas.  There are tonnes of small creeks along the north side of the Fraser river that are closed where people go to dip net chinook and coho like whonnock creek.  DFO used to spend a lot of time walking these creeks but they do not any more.  They still spend a lot of time in the hope canyon, humping hills going after people dip netting.

So yeah I think we all agree that they need to spend more time enforcing the sports fishery.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: RalphH on October 11, 2017, 09:13:22 PM
The prevalence of snagging and bagging and other disreputable angling habits of the V-C long out date either the Fraser sockeye fishery or making pink salmon open to sport fishing. It's an old story looking for a new culprit to blame.
Title: Re: Enforcement At KWB Today.
Post by: Jk47 on October 11, 2017, 09:49:36 PM
I think there is a lot of truth behind Hammer's statement, the free for all floss n snag "fisheries" are disappearing and the "spill-over" combined with an increasing population and two generations of their snagging offspring are enough to make the seasoned and ethical river angler puke. shut everything down (except the hatchery put and take runs MAYBES ) to catch and release and we'll see who's still standing in the river in the rain and the cold just to catch and release a chrome  trophy (not kill every black, spawned out  fish "for the smoker" they can snag!