Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on October 27, 2016, 07:36:03 PM
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Filmed this today, the water was chocolate but by his dipping method he had a fish on every couple of minutes. Here is a clip of this method in very fast water.https://youtu.be/kaFht2U32SQ
I will have video 2 up shortly, very sad. Maybe some people watching this will see this is not the way to do it. The fish should be left in the water as much as possible when getting the hook out.
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Pisses me off seeing people fishing this way. The 2nd video you mentioned is not up, but we all know what happens. Opps, wild coho, fish is half dead on the rocks, fish gets tossed (or booted) back in the water and likely dies afterwards.
I avoid fishing spots with this kind of water near enough for me to see. It pisses me right off seeing this, I often end up saying something, sometimes get into a confrontation, more or less ruins my day. And I'm out to enjoy myself and relax! Best to steer clear of such snag/dip holes.
I really wish there was some sort of test one had to pass to get an angler's license. Want a salmon tag? That's another test you must pass. Yes and these tests should be available in French, Chinese, Korean, and so on.
Seems fair that if one has to take a course and pass a test to hunt, you should also have to for fishing.
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How on earth would he hope to land a fish in such fast water...
Saw a dude land a big wild coho in a pocket of fast water near Tamaihi ....it was hooked in the back...then he grabs a rock.. ready to bonk it!!
I yelled at him that he cant kill a wild Coho and also not to bonk a foul hooked fish!!
He dropped the rock ...."OK ok..." he says and released the fish. Not once did he look up at me....he knew what he was gonna do was wrong.
People will go ahead snag and bonk at will.... as long as no one says anything some will just go right ahead and do it again and again.....
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Boy, looks fun!
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Pisses me off seeing people fishing this way. The 2nd video you mentioned is not up, but we all know what happens. Opps, wild coho, fish is half dead on the rocks, fish gets tossed (or booted) back in the water and likely dies afterwards.
I avoid fishing spots with this kind of water near enough for me to see. It pisses me right off seeing this, I often end up saying something, sometimes get into a confrontation, more or less ruins my day. And I'm out to enjoy myself and relax! Best to steer clear of such snag/dip holes.
I really wish there was some sort of test one had to pass to get an angler's license. Want a salmon tag? That's another test you must pass. Yes and these tests should be available in French, Chinese, Korean, and so on.
Seems fair that if one has to take a course and pass a test to hunt, you should also have to for fishing.
Sadly here it is. https://youtu.be/ujMr0Mmhn1g
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Barbed hook to id bet from watching that.
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Sadly here it is. https://youtu.be/ujMr0Mmhn1g
I know i had seen that vid somewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9fbU87gMrc
but in all seriousness I think it just comes down to education
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Disgusting!
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I know i had seen that vid somewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9fbU87gMrc
but in all seriousness I think it just comes down to education
I would be tired too if I used a flag pole to catch chums
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Barbed hooked or a poorly pinched barb ie "Oh! I thought I pinched it enough?" CO's either gonna do the feel with the fingers or the "If it snags any fabric coming out after I put it into a piece of fabric it's got a barb." test.
And holy heck how the hell does one fish water that fast and muddy!??! I'm trying to keep my eye on the line as it zips by, fish ain't going to see a thing except maybe a blur of pink?
The whole stepping on the fish really bugs me as well, how about I step on him with my 250 pound frame and see what he says then.
Gotta agree with Spawn Sack, should be a course that all anglers must pass on ethics and basics on how to fish properly.
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what Chris's video is showing is exactly what I was talking about on page 1 of the thread "what's with all the snaggers".
I see this behaviour all the time! doesn't matter whether the river is blown out or not these guys find some fast water close to shore and start this "dipping" procedure.
People that fish properly on this river know that there's a 0% chance to get a fish to bite in that dirty of water moving that fast so it's very obvious what is taking place.
I'm not sure they realize that a high percentage of the fish they are hooking are snagged but I don't think they really care!
I'm sure if they were in a spot with no eyes on them those fish would be going home.
When I see people doing this it makes me extremely angry but I don't know what the solution is.
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Ugh.
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Chris, thanks for making those videos and posting them. In this time and age, public shaming might be the most effective way to discourage people from engaging in unethical practices.
The guy in the video is NOT ignorant. He is very well aware of the fish travelling lane in high water and is targeting it accordingly. He is just someone with no respect for the resource whatsoever.
Somebody on this forum knows him, or knows someone who knows him. He should by now be aware that he's become a FWR celebrity for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully, this thread will make him reconsider his practices.
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I agree , he knows exactly what he is doing , with the amount of fish in the river why would someone fish this way ? , unfortunately public shaming might be the only way , hopefully they will change their ways when they see this
You have to assume you are on camera wherever you are
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I don't know what dipping has to do with it other than Chris doesn't like it. Certainly handling & the release was terrible from pulling the fish onto the rocks letting it flop around, stepping on it and removing the possibly barbed hook.
Is this any better? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH36b6XMPG0
About 2 minutes in there is the glory of a gill hooked fish. Looks like they were fishing with jigs as well. Most of these fish look to be in spawning condition. Whatever happened to the Fisheries regulation about harassing salmon on the spawning grounds.
I'd also question the ethics of filming anyone without their knowledge and consent and then posting it on the net let alone possibly subjecting them to internet shaming.
Oh and chum can be superb sport fish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQOrAJeUow
If the Chilliwack is a cesspool of bad angling habits that's unlikely to make it better. Tests will mean nothing without regulation.
Perhaps the river should be closed when the crossing gauge hits 2.5m. Maybe Tamihi rapids should be closed to angling mid Sept to mid November?
A fly fish only regulation would certainly end 'dipping'. Can you all live with that? ;D
DFO, MOE are content to let inexperienced and casual anglers beat up on salmon in the name of recreation & 'mitigation' for the environmental damage of old and very bad hydroelectric development. The people in these videos are just the tip of the ice berg.
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I don't know what dipping has to do with it other than Chris doesn't like it. Certainly handling & the release was terrible from pulling the fish onto the rocks letting it flop around, stepping on it and removing the possibly barbed hook.
Is this any better? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH36b6XMPG0
About 2 minutes in there is the glory of a gill hooked fish. Looks like they were fishing with jigs as well. Most of these fish look to be in spawning condition. Whatever happened to the Fisheries regulation about harassing salmon on the spawning grounds.
I'd also question the ethics of filming anyone without their knowledge and consent and then posting it on the net let alone possibly subjecting them to internet shaming.
If the Chilliwack is a cesspool of bad angling habits that's unlikely to make it better. Tests will mean nothing without regulation.
Perhaps the river should be closed when the crossing gauge hits 2.5m. Maybe Tamihi rapids should be closed to angling mid Sept to mid November?
A fly fish only regulation would certainly end 'dipping'. Can you all live with that? ;D
DFO, MOE are content to let inexperienced and casual anglers beat up on salmon in the name of recreation & 'mitigation' for the environmental damage of old and very bad hydroelectric development. The people in these videos are just the tip of the ice berg.
The person in the video has seen it and apologized for his action. and I have posted a response to him, this is what I wrote.
"It takes a person of character to admit when he has made a mistake, a lot of people would not and to do so on FB where all can see. We all make mistakes in life at one time. We ask if you see others do this take the time to point out how to release a fish properly."
I think more good than harm will come by posting the video as it will teach others not to handle a fish this way if you are going to release it I accept his apology as we all should and no need to say any more about him.
As one that freelanced for Global TV at one time: while you are in the public domain you are free to take pictures and video, I am sure you see that on any newscast
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Well said Ralph.. Here on the Island in Area 19-20 we have restrictions through the spring and summer on Chinook and Coho to let these fish make it through and do there thing. Now i see these jack asses or so called fisherman do this crap.. Close the river is right in certain sections. Hard to watch. I do like the public shaming though !!
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The person in the video has seen it and apologized for his action
Good stuff. I honestly hope he goes on to be an advocate of the best practices in release techniques and promote others to do the same!
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The person in the video has seen it and apologized for his action. and I have posted a response to him, this is what I wrote.
"It takes a person of character to admit when he has made a mistake, a lot of people would not and to do so on FB where all can see. We all make mistakes in life at one time. We ask if you see others do this take the time to point out how to release a fish properly."
I think more good than harm will come by posting the video as it will teach others not to handle a fish this way if you are going to release it I accept his apology as we all should and no need to say any more about him.
As one that freelanced for Global TV at one time: while you are in the public domain you are free to take pictures and video, I am sure you see that on any newscast
Well said and done sir!!!
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Well Chris that is good to hear, hopefully more people will learn from not just your video but also Rodney's video on how to handle and release fish instead of doing it in this particular way.
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As one that freelanced for Global TV at one time: while you are in the public domain you are free to take pictures and video, I am sure you see that on any newscast
not quite true. People have challenged unauthorized publication & broadcast of their image in court and won. You are not a member of the media when doing this so I am not sure how your passed activity with it applies. You also implied they did something wrong by 'dipping'. This is just an activity you dislike and there is nothing illegal about it and what may be unethical about it is totally unclear. What public good such videos do beyond public shaming is not clear to me either.
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"What public good such videos do beyond public shaming is not clear to me either."
It shows how to short float for chumskis. :o Going to be a line dance on the Vedder now after people see that video.
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This guy has all the best gear waders etc. but yet he doesn't know better?
I call BS on that.
Time to start throwing these types in the river. :o ;)
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not quite true. People have challenged unauthorized publication & broadcast of their image in court and won. You are not a member of the media when doing this so I am not sure how your passed activity with it applies. You also implied they did something wrong by 'dipping'. This is just an activity you dislike and there is nothing illegal about it and what may be unethical about it is totally unclear. What public good such videos do beyond public shaming is not clear to me either.
In BC, the privacy act does apply to photographs to a certain extent. However - you can make a photograph of anything and anyone on any public property, (i.e.) streets, sidewalks, town squares, parks, government buildings open to the public, and public places are all OK. Except where a specific law prohibits it – generally a posted sign will advise – lack of sign does not ensure permission to photograph. http://www.langleycameraclub.com/photographers-rights/ (http://www.langleycameraclub.com/photographers-rights/)
If the BC Privacy Act was held to a rigid interpretation and application of law, then millions of photos and videos taken in BC every year with people in the photo other then the principles would be illegal.
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Waaaah?
The old one boot chum release should be stopped. Shining a light on it is the only way.
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If someone is committing a specific offense, by all means video record them for evidence. Where the problem lies is when someone video records a situation where collectively there are more than just the perpetrators depicted in the scene. Guilt by association just for being in the vicinity of the people in question is a reality that no one would want to be associated with or labelled.
ie.... a friend who was mistaken for a protestor for walking through a riot on his way to his car after work...yes it happened, 1994 Vancouver Canucks riot...police video taped him and friends thought he was involved.
Three years ago I was short casting roe bags along the banks of the Cement Slab...the usual sight flossers where in full force that day and guess what? The same night I saw myself on Youtube under the label of "Beeks flossing the River" and it took an email threat from a lawyer friend to have it taken down. It wasn't enough for the poster to blur out my face because a lot of my friends and colleagues would have still recognize me and it would have been an embarrassing situation.
Make damn sure you're recording under the right circmstances because it could back fire on you under the wrong pretense.
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blair, check out blaydRnr's post .. no capital letters, an easy to read font, no yelling, just common sense.
Take a lesson and calm your posts down; you might find you get more response.
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Thanks Ralph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQOrAJeUow
Nice to see people showing some respect for this superb fighting and eating fish.
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In BC, the privacy act does apply to photographs to a certain extent. However - you can make a photograph of anything and anyone on any public property, (i.e.) streets, sidewalks, town squares, parks, government buildings open to the public, and public places are all OK. Except where a specific law prohibits it – generally a posted sign will advise – lack of sign does not ensure permission to photograph. http://www.langleycameraclub.com/photographers-rights/ (http://www.langleycameraclub.com/photographers-rights/)
If the BC Privacy Act was held to a rigid interpretation and application of law, then millions of photos and videos taken in BC every year with people in the photo other then the principles would be illegal.
thanks but I made no claims anywhere related to the Privacy Act and this has nothing to do with my point.
Here is was I said:
I'd also question the ethics of filming anyone without their knowledge and consent and then posting it on the net let alone possibly subjecting them to internet shaming.
Couple of questions - why not talk to the individual and or call RAPP or send them the video? These seem far better options than posting and also mixing in the issue of methodology.
Ethics has little to do with the law. Cases I referred to took place in civil court. Everyone has a right to their image. Media outlets etc are commonly sued for stuff such as libel and defamation. Most responsible outlets actually have an editorial review of such material and their own ethical guidelines - which we don't have here though I recognize Rod and the other moderators do have a policy and so an excellent job of keeping posts consistent with that. The media usually has legal staff on retainers to review content as needed. Clearly it isn't so simple as being free to take a photo.
Members here are for the most part the most reasonable and thoughtful of all the angling boards I have participated in - though there have been a few exceptions lately.
Internet shaming has become a pox on society. It's the mob in the era of instant communication. Earlier this year a Tacoma teacher named Klara Bowman was fired from her job as a kindergarten teacher for reportedly being drunk in class. You can google that or read about it here:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/education/article64640422.html
(http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/education/article64640422.html)
If being fired and having her teaching career destroyed wasn't enough, she was subjected to 'internet shaming' and later committed suicide. Her story before being fired was never reported and included personal tragedy followed by a history of dug and alcohol abuse.
In a similar case an Ontario angler was 'internet shamed' for killing a muskie. Though fined $1,000 and banned from angling in Ontario for life his existence was made a misery when another angler published a video made with a cellphone of him clubbing the fish and tossing it back in the water.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-man-who-clubbed-fish-shamed-harassed-online-1.2997259
In natural law and ethics, punishment should fit the crime. People shouldn't have their life's destroyed for relatively minor infractions. Clearly no one can know or even guess the possible outcomes once information such as in those 2 cases are published on the web.
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thanks but I made no claims anywhere related to the Privacy Act and this has nothing to do with my point.
Here is was I said:
I'd also question the ethics of filming anyone without their knowledge and consent and then posting it on the net let alone possibly subjecting them to internet shaming.
Actually it does have something to do with your point. You or no one has any legal justification for stopping anyone from taking a photo or filming of you in a public place and without your knowledge and consent. People who have tried (and many successfully and rightfully so) have used the Privacy Act where their right to privacy was abused. That is why I mentioned it. As a lifelong photographer I know my rights and will stand up for them even if it means going to court. That said, there have been many times people have politely asked me to not take photos of them and of course I respect their request.
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Actually it does have something to do with your point. You or no one has any legal justification for stopping anyone from taking a photo or filming of you in a public place and without your knowledge and consent. People who have tried (and many successfully and rightfully so) have used the Privacy Act where their right to privacy was abused. That is why I mentioned it. As a lifelong photographer I know my rights and will stand up for them even if it means going to court. That said, there have been many times people have politely asked me to not take photos of them and of course I respect their request.
I think the legality of taking a photo or video in lublic has been out to rest, it is allowed. What is not so cut and dry is what a person is allowed to do with the images? As was said, the person in the video was fishing in a legal manner, regardless of what a persons opinion. I do not support, and am glad he will apparently try to change.
But at its heart, Is opinion enough to ruin a person's reputation? The courts have not been so cut and dried on that topic.
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I THINK THIS THREAD is WRONG and SHOULD BE REMOVED!
*Personal Opinion
So... firstly i like to say a couple things:
1) I do not know the Person(s) in the Video
2) I do not know "Chris Gadsden" Personally
I think the method of fishing is wrong (although ... -> NOT ILLEGAL)
I RESPECT "Chris Gadsden" for all his tireless efforts, education and input to the Fishing Community...but DISAGREE 100% with this "Public Shaming" on the FWR SITE.
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This is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!
Since when did FWR become the "SNITCH" / "PUBLIC SHAMING" / "REPORT a VIOLATION" site?
Is there going to be FUTURE POSTS about:
What may happen next? or "Here's a video about someone i don't like"?
There are PROPER ways to REPORT VIOLATIONS, there are INDIVIDUALS who are PROPERLY TRAINED and EMPOWERED to administer ENFORCEMENT. This Site is NOT for that purpose!
Seriously .... If you filmed me and put it up on the INTERNET (Without my permission / and with the OBVIOUS INTENT of MALICE & SHAMING ... i'd have some major issues with both the individual who posted and the SITE ("ROD") for allowing this type of MILITANT & RENEGADE publication.
Seriously .... THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG and NEEDS to BE REMOVED!
SINCE when did FWR become some sort of COURT ROOM?
Accusations - Intimidation - Bullying -Harassment & Invasion of Privacy are not Acceptable solutions / Justification to PUBLISH GARBAGE LIKE THIS!
That's my opinion.
http://ambientlight.ca/laws/the-laws/provincial-law/british-columbia/privacy-act/
Blair, why are you so agitated?
Calm down...nobody will film you unless you are doing something illegal or offensive.
As for privacy, as long as you are in a public place, you can and will be filmed - in fact, you are on security cameras all the time once you leave your home. So don't make a big deal out of nothing.
The gentleman in question did the right thing and apologized. Next will be to hone his fishing skills in a way that he always fishes in a manner that is legal and ethically acceptable. In doing so, he is welcome to fish by my side any time. :)
Remember Blaire, flossing is legal, too, yet most of us have abandoned the technique long ago because fish ARE NOT BITING our presentation. Dipping is no different from flossing that way - the proof is in the number of foul-hooked fish.
Finally, FWR is not a snitching site; it is meant to inform and educate. Sometimes the lessons have to be tough in order to be effective. This is one of those lessons.
Peace.
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Flossing is legal? Since when is intentionally foul hooking fish legal in BC? Perhaps you meant bottom bouncing is legal. Flossing is a form of foul hooking which is just as illegal as snagging fish in the tail etc. It is however basically impossible to enforce the law against flossers, because you can't prove indefinitely that the fish didn't bite. The loop hole through which flossers work...
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You can take pictures in a public place but to intentionally singling out a face to publically shame the person without his consent and knowledge, and to possibly causing him internet slashing resulting in emotional suffering is a different story. As far as I can see, these guys were fishing legally. They didn't even jerk the rods at the end of the drift like the Tamahi folks do, lol. They just happen to prefer to fish in fast water. Unfortunately it is a dog kingdom these days and any drift can result in foul hooking or mouth hooking, just like in Tamahi or for that matter in spots with high concentration of fish. But that is personal preference. DFO probably can't prosecute these folks for liking to fish in fast water. If they do, they will take the entire Tamahi gangs to court, lol. I really think this is an invasion on the privacy of the individuals. May be the Tamahi gangs or earlier the guys fishing the hot spring spot below the Crossing Bridge are more deserving a video of this nature. I am with Blair that FWR shouldn't really be used as a public shaming or stereotyping site.
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Birkenhead you are using a strawman argument. I did not say there was no legal right to shoot this video. You are refuting a claim that wasn't made in the discussion.
To my last post I will also add foul hooking a chum on the V-C and doing a poor 'boot' release is as common as dirt. In my mind there's no justifiable reason to single this guy out.
I'd also add we don't lose our absolute right to privacy in public spaces. They become restricted.
I have also had my photo taken in public by Professional Photographers. They always asked me first, told me what it would be used for and provided me a copy of the photos.
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I agree with Ralph's post completely. Internet shaming is just another case of online bullying. Just because you share the bully's opinion does not make it right.
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Flossing is legal? Since when is intentionally foul hooking fish legal in BC? Perhaps you meant bottom bouncing is legal. Flossing is a form of foul hooking which is just as illegal as snagging fish in the tail etc. It is however basically impossible to enforce the law against flossers, because you can't prove indefinitely that the fish didn't bite. The loop hole through which flossers work...
Actually your interpretation is not quite accurate on this one. The current regs have no requirement that the fish bite, and thus flossing is perfectly legal so long as they as they are hooked in the mouth. I know what you are trying to say, and many people would agree with you, but the wording of the regs is pretty clear...
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Actually your interpretation is not quite accurate on this one. The current regs have no requirement that the fish bite, and thus flossing is perfectly legal so long as they as they are hooked in the mouth. I know what you are trying to say, and many people would agree with you, but the wording of the regs is pretty clear...
The regs also state that intentionally foul hooking fish is illegal. Hence flossimg becomes illegal...
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foul hooking means other than the mouth parts or there abouts. Both DFO and MOE have recognized that flossing as currently understood is legal as long the fish is hooked legally.
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foul hooking means other than the mouth parts or there abouts. Both DFO and MOE have recognized that flossing as currently understood is legal as long the fish is hooked legally.
I stand unfortunately corrected!
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Sorry, not bored enough to read the entire thread...who got caught flossing?!?