Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: JBB on October 14, 2015, 12:36:44 PM
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I was at the Stave yesterday and the chums ( stale bucks for the most part ) were breaking my leaders. I was using up to 20lb. maxima and they were usually broken off at the knot. What would you suggest for either fly lines or casting using jigs ? Thanks
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Better knots.
Check your leader after every fish.
12- 15 lb should be good bit I do notice a lot of folk try to horse them in too early (before they're tired)
Don't over play it but be sure it's calmed down a bit.
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Old line, kine frayed from teeth and/or rocks, poor knot tying, damaged rod eyes...check all of these.
20lbs should be sufficient if you are playing the fish properly, with a suitable rod that takes pressure off of the line.
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I just use 10 lb. test leader and it holds up well.
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If you have foul hooked them , sometimes you just have to horse them in. I'll pay more attention to the leaders. I also replaced 25lb loops on the end of my spey sink tips with
braided loops . Thanks for the help.
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If you have foul hooked them , sometimes you just have to horse them in.
Wrong. If you foul hook them, breaking them off is the right thing to do - hence the need for a lighter leader.
Make sure your leader is always at least #5 test lighter than your main line. That way, when you are breaking off a fish (or a snag), it is your leader that gives in, not your main line or rod.
I have witnessed guys breaking their rods trying to horse in a snagged spring or chum. Without exception, they were fishing a line and/or leader heavier than what their rods were designed to withstand.
If your rod is rated 8-17# (medium), using 50# test Fireline for main and 20# maxima for leader is just a disaster waiting to happen.
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Sounds good to me.
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the chums ( stale bucks for the most part ) were breaking my leaders. I was using up to 20lb. maxima and they were usually broken off at the knot.
Odd, I fish with 15 lbs leader on 20 lbs main and rarely have the line break. I aleays check for abrasion after each fish and re-tie if the leader feels anything but smooth. However, the fact that you are getting breaks at the knot suggests something else.
What knot are you using, the improved clinch? Also are you lubricating the knot with spit to prevent line burn as you tighten it up?
Are you sure the knot is not unraveling (i.e. not enough loops on the clinch) rather than actually breaking?
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I use a 12 pound ultragreen leader to which I tie a tippet of 6-8 pound fluorocarbon. Recently I have had big chum and coho snap off the tippet at the knot, once on a double surgeon then next on a blood knot. Never at the fly which I always use a no slip loop. I figure the knots were failing due to a too great of step down from the 12 lb leader to 6 pound tippet. When I purposefully target chum I simply remove the tippet and use the 12lb leader.
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I agree with Milo JBB on using lighter leader so you can break off foul hooked chum. If hooked in the beak even the biggest chum can be brought to hand with 8-12lb leaders....a foul hooked chum is a different beast all together. I got my knuckles rapped a few times by the fly reel when trying to land a foul hooked chum....now i just point my rod, hold the reel and say goodbye to my fly...maybe shed a tear depending on the fly.
BN
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I agree with Milo JBB on using lighter leader so you can break off foul hooked chum. If hooked in the beak even the biggest chum can be brought to hand with 8-12lb leaders....a foul hooked chum is a different beast all together. I got my knuckles rapped a few times by the fly reel when trying to land a foul hooked chum....now i just point my rod, hold the reel and say goodbye to my fly...maybe shed a tear depending on the fly.
BN
sometimes the fish is so far gone the fly will pop and not have snapped off.
Albeit very, very rarely
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I use 14lb suffix smoke green for chum, never lose them due to breakage of the leader. Usually it's a popped hook if I lose one. I use 15lb fluoroflex for other spooky situations, but it's such a weak product that I don't usually stick with it. Rocks will smash/chew it up fast.
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I run 20# main with 12-15# leader for all river salmon fishing.
Some fish are just HOGS and win the battle....
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JBB, the issue is almost certainly your knot. I am assuming you are using a typical float fishing set up of float on mailline, weight above swivel, then leader off the swivel to your hook/lure? If your mainline were breaking then it could be a chipped eyelet on your rod that is chaffing the line. But using this set up you do not reel past your float so the leader does not go through any eyelets. So that potential issue is ruled out.
20lb Maxima UG leader definitley should NOT be breaking. I typically run 20LB mono mainline (UG or similar...currently using Berkley Prospec, like it a lot), and max 15lb mono leader (I like Maxima UG or Berkley XT). Typically I run 12lb leader because, and as others have pointed out, if I foul hook a fish, or hook a snag, I want the LEADER to break, not my mainline (bye bye float, weight, etc). Sometime I'll run 10lb or even 8lb leader if the water is really clear but then I find more fish are lost due to teeth sawing through the thinner line. With 12 or 15 it rarely gets sawed through and I check it often, if getting rough/nicked up I tie on a new leader.
If I were you I would go into a fishing store (not crappy tire) during non peak hours and ask one of the staff to take a look at your knot where the line keeps breaking. Chances are they'll point out some issues with your knot and show you how to better it.
IMO for mono line to swivel all you need is the improved clinch knot. Easy to tie and reliable. If you like farting with knots there are lots of others to try
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Sorry to de-rail the thread a bit here, but has anyone been out to the stave in the past week? Are the water levels extremely high like last year or is back to "normal" levels?
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Sorry to de-rail the thread a bit here, but has anyone been out to the stave in the past week? Are the water levels extremely high like last year or is back to "normal" levels?
Water is very low this year as there hasn't been much rain. The dam is releasing a little slower.
The Stave is the typical gong show right now. So many Eastern European snaggers hauling in black bellies by their tail, and keeping them, blech.
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I use 12lb maxima ultragreen mainline with a 10lb seaguar fluorocarbon leader for all of the river fishing I do. (Sometimes I use a lighter leader especially when targeting coho.) I rarely lose fish. Well that's a bit of a lie ;D but I usually only lose them if the hook pops out like what Flytech mentioned. If you check your leader for signs of wear regularly, there shouldn't be any problems, unless of course you hook some hog of a fish in the fast water. The key is to actually fight the fish and to actually use your reel. Too often I see guys walking backwards when the fish is just hooked and they don't let any line out with their drags tightened to the max. Of course you will lose fish this way. Lol take a deep breath, relax and enjoy the fight of the fish. Just my 2 cents. ;)
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Yup just Eastern Europeans...
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Water is very low this year as there hasn't been much rain. The dam is releasing a little slower.
The Stave is the typical gong show right now. So many Eastern European snaggers hauling in black bellies by their tail, and keeping them, blech.
Thanks for the update.
That's the typical scene at the stave for sure! No spots are secret there, but the ones they can't bottom bounce in seem to provide some measure of distance and peace.
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Yup just Eastern Europeans...
Not just, but I would say 60% of the fishermen fishing for chum at the Stave, are...
Hell I'm there. Quit looking for a fight.
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Let me clarify . I generally drift fish jigs for chum and I seldom have a knot or leader break. I use 12lb leaders with no difficulty. When I switched to a spey rod I use loop to loop
connections using a 20lb butt section on the sink tip with a perfection loop. The leader ( 12-15 lb ) has a perfection loop as well. It was the loops on the leader that were breaking . Using a Rio braided loop on the sinktip seems to have solved the problem. Someone told me today that the perfection loop can be a weak link.
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The Stave is the typical gong show right now. So many Eastern European snaggers hauling in black bellies by their tail, and keeping them, blech.
In thick Slavic accent: mind your own business, comrade. You don't want to pi$$ Boris off.
You really don't.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fRcoWQF4yxA/UZKgE7VBRyI/AAAAAAAAKG4/dwHBQW4xQqs/s1600/rhino2.jpg)
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Was at the Stave yesterday. Water quite low as stated earlier. Lots of flossers as per usual.
Love watching people haul the fish 20 feet onto the rocks then ask their buddy "do you want to keep it?"
Anyways the fishing was good as I landed about 7 fish and lost another 6 or so.
Took my dad for the first time fishing for chum and he loved it.
(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r636/DHooper71/DSC_7567_zpsuj5gln1d.jpg) (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/DHooper71/media/DSC_7567_zpsuj5gln1d.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the report hoop. Stoked for some bobber down tomorrow!
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I was running 15 mono main and 10lb leader for chums today, no prob. Just set the drag a touch loose and be patient. Was using a 10' 6" river rod of that makes any difference...
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Let me clarify . I generally drift fish jigs for chum and I seldom have a knot or leader break. I use 12lb leaders with no difficulty. When I switched to a spey rod I use loop to loop
connections using a 20lb butt section on the sink tip with a perfection loop. The leader ( 12-15 lb ) has a perfection loop as well. It was the loops on the leader that were breaking . Using a Rio braided loop on the sinktip seems to have solved the problem. Someone told me today that the perfection loop can be a weak link.
I've been into a fair # of chum on my 8wt spey the last week or so. I'll tell you what I do and I never (well almost never) have issues with knots busting.
My sink tip has a factory loop on it. I use the RIO MOW tips. I take a piece (2-3 feet) of 15lb Maxima UG and tie a loop on the end so I can loop-to-loop it to my sink tip. I've tried the perfection loop and found it a pain to tie. I just use the one that is two overhand knots...I think called a surgeon's loop ??? I've never this knot bust. From here I tie in 2-3 feet of tippet. Usually 10 or 12 lb UG. I use a double surgeon's knot. If fishing lighter line than this for trout I'll go tripple S.
I find a blood knot connection just as reliable but much harder to tie on the river esp with cold hands.
With some other btands of mono maybe 20lb would be better looped to the sink tip, but I find UG pretty thick for its rating and I havent had 15lb cut through my tip loop yet and I've had to snap off the odd foul hooked chum or humpy.
IMO connecting mono to flouro with whatever knot is asking for a break. With loop-to-loop maybe not an issue. When I have had knots bust it has been connecting M to F with a blood knot or surgeon's knot. Maybe it depends on the brand/quality of the M and F? I've had no issues with F to F or M to M.
Also IMO flouro totally unecessary for chum. They are not leader shy. People say it is more abrasion resistant and sinks better. I personally have not noticed I catch any more fish with F than M. I just like good old UG and sue it for most of my leaders for salmon and trout. The odd time if I'm into some really picky coho I'll break out the spool of 6 or 8lb expensive Seaguar flouro. Honestly I don't think it makes a diff but it gives me a bit more confidence.
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Thanks Spawn Sack
That information is just what I was looking for . Are you fishing the Stave or the Vedder ?
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............the perfection loop can be a weak link.
It is the weak link. The perfection loop is great for joining butt section of 20,25 and 30lb together loop to loop.
For your sinktips, if they have loops on already, I do the same set up as Spawn Sack: 15 lb UG butt, surgeon loop to sink tip. I only use 8-10 lb UG for tippet, and keep everything under 5-6 feet.
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I agree with bigsnag. Keep butt section + tippet to 5-6 feet max. I'd even go 3-4 feet if the water is colored up. For steelhead I run about 3 feet of straight Maxima UG.
IMO 8-10lb tippet has the breaking strength to land chum and springs with this setup, but I like the bit of extra line thickness to (hopefully) keep the teeth from sawing through my line. This normally happens when trying to release the fish and it's thrashing side to side in the water. I find I can still snap off 12lb by straightening the rod, but to each their own fish whatever tippet you like and works for you. My buddy only fishes Seaguar Blue Label leader/tippet on his gear and fly rods, uses only the clear floats, split shot instead of pencil lead, and he doesn't catch any more than me and others with mono leaders and foam dink floats :o
I fish the Vedder as I live nearby. I've never fished the Stave but would like to try some day. I also fish the Fraser as I have a river boat too 8)
Won't be spey fishing for a while >:( Last time I was out I broke the tip :( Wasn't even overloading the tip at all it just broke playing a stinky pink!! Guy at Fred's said that where it broke and how it broke the rod definitley had a chip in it. I am VERY careful with this rod and keep it in the hard case when not in use. However when learning to cast I stupidly used a weighted fly and a few casts wacked into the upper section of the rod. I think from now on I'll stick to unweighted flys and if I need to get down more just buy a heavier tip(s). I think it will take min a month for the new piece and I had to pay $50 I think it was processing fee. Oh well I have many gear rods and I enjoy gear fishing too.