Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: sg6804 on August 23, 2015, 11:44:21 AM

Title: Lower fraser
Post by: sg6804 on August 23, 2015, 11:44:21 AM
As the natives have an opening today in the lower river could this mean that a sport opening might happen this week in the tidal fraser. As it is very rare that sockeye are caught in lower river  if not when might we expect a shot for pinks in the tidal fraser
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: juno on August 23, 2015, 09:01:13 PM
who knows, I was at the river yesterday  to take my dog for a swim.  I didn't see any fish jumping, so  another week or two maybe
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Fish or cut bait. on August 24, 2015, 10:33:41 AM
If it's rare why then do they open it for commercial boats at times?

But I would think a selective opening would be on the horizon.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: kevzabob on August 24, 2015, 01:21:28 PM
Mostly their fishing for chinooks.. The pinks will probably open for sport fishing in a couple weeks or first of sept.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: canso on August 24, 2015, 02:53:17 PM
Saw lots of sockeye jumping in English bay yesterday, my guess would be tidal Fraser opens just before the long weekend and non tidal shortly after.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: hrenya on August 24, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
saw few pinks yesterday in Richmond , not jumping , just showing their backs , in Richmond .
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Rodney on August 24, 2015, 04:47:11 PM
The net opening you saw on the weekend was a communal chinook salmon opening for Lower Fraser River First Nations, not commercial.

Don't be surprised if recreational pink salmon fishing opening does not open in a week. The late summer sockeye salmon run is tracking at below the P50 forecast as well and if it is a lot lower like what the summer run has been, similar management measures like the total salmon fishing closure will continue.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: redder on August 24, 2015, 07:00:00 PM
The net opening you saw on the weekend was a communal chinook salmon opening for Lower Fraser River First Nations, not commercial.

Don't be surprised if recreational pink salmon fishing opening does not open in a week, or at all, from now. The late summer sockeye salmon run is tracking at below the P50 forecast as well and if it is a lot lower like what the summer run has been, similar management measures like the total salmon fishing closure will continue.


any good news ? ...
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Rodney on August 24, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
Not really. :)
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: fishbuster on August 24, 2015, 09:24:52 PM
Only good news is some rain forecast this weekend. 

Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: bbwong on August 25, 2015, 12:10:38 AM
The net opening you saw on the weekend was a communal chinook salmon opening for Lower Fraser River First Nations, not commercial.

Don't be surprised if recreational pink salmon fishing opening does not open in a week, or at all, from now. The late summer sockeye salmon run is tracking at below the P50 forecast as well and if it is a lot lower like what the summer run has been, similar management measures like the total salmon fishing closure will continue.

I don't understand why they close lower Fraser for pink. As all we know by-catching sockeye is super rare and hard in the lower Fraser.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: DanL on August 25, 2015, 09:40:10 AM
Someone can correct me if I have it wrong, but I would guess it has more to do with closing/restricting the FN and commercial fishing to protect vulnerable stocks like sockeye. The sporties are not going to get a recreational opportunity ahead of the FN/comms so if they remain closed, so do we.

You’re right though, that getting sockeye by rod and reel in the lower Fraser is very unlikely, but unfortunately that’s not the issue.

If I recall (again correct me if I’m wrong) the late summer sockeye run goes into late September, so in the worst case scenario, could we not potentially see the closure in place until nearly October?
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Rodney on August 25, 2015, 10:47:33 AM
That's correct DanL. When stocks are low and no fish are available for First Nations' communal fishery openings, recreational fisheries are closed to eliminate any incidental by-catches which the FNs would have been catching if there were openings. The late summer run estimate so far is similar to the summer run, that's why I would not be surprised if it doesn't open as early as people would like it. At the same time, your representatives at the SFAC have been busy advocating for an opening with DFO, for the reason which bbwong has pointed out.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: sg6804 on August 25, 2015, 11:10:14 AM
is there a website for SFAC
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Rodney on August 25, 2015, 11:12:16 AM
Just a FYI page:

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/smon/sfab-ccps/reg-tor-man-eng.htm

If you are looking for information like meeting minutes etc, I don't think those are available on the website.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Derp on August 25, 2015, 12:34:11 PM
I don't understand why they close lower Fraser for pink. As all we know by-catching sockeye is super rare and hard in the lower Fraser.

I'm sure most will agree with you, and yet still no response to this. I guess logic and regs don't usually go hand in hand
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Rodney on August 25, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
I'm sure most will agree with you, and yet still no response to this. I guess logic and regs don't usually go hand in hand

Response from who? DFO? If you have a question for DFO and would like a response, best to email or phone them as they do not answer questions in our discussion forum. The contact information of the resource manager is always available at the end of each fishery notice.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Derp on August 25, 2015, 12:45:04 PM
Response from who? DFO? If you have a question for DFO and would like a response, best to email or phone them as they do not answer questions in our discussion forum. The contact information of the resource manager is always available at the end of each fishery notice.

Lol derp... Rod i'm referring to my attempts to get an answer from DFO. Seems like nobody is answering phone calls or replying to emails at this time, or maybe on this subject.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: sg6804 on August 25, 2015, 02:07:44 PM
i would say the Jimmy Pattison group has more pull than the sport fishing groups, it looks like they are going to get an opening soon

Fishery Notice
Category(s): COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Subject: FN0927-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Area E - Area 29 - Modified Net (shallow seine) Demonstration Fishery

As outlined in the 2015/2016 Southern BC Salmon Integrated Fisheries Management
Plan, the Area E Harvest Committee has proposed and organized a limited
opportunity demonstration fishery to explore the feasibility of accessing
Fraser pink salmon with an alternative small mesh shallow seine gear type.

This demonstration is designed to explore shallow seine selective fishing gear
and techniques, including mesh size restrictions, brailing, sorting, and short
set times to minimize mortality of any potential by-catch species.  The target
species is pink salmon and all other species encountered must be released.
Information from this demonstration fishery, including by-catch impacts, will
be monitored, assessed, and evaluated on an on-going basis throughout the pink
salmon migration. 

Only designated fishing vessels will be authorized to fish in the demonstration
fishery. Participants of this demonstration fishery will be required to cover
the costs of a comprehensive monitoring program that includes independent at-
sea observers and mandatory dockside catch validation.  Additional details
including gear configuration, open times, fishing area, and other terms and
conditions will be provided to participants. 

This demonstration fishery will occur when pink salmon stocks are abundant in
the local area and may be curtailed or may not proceed subject to conservation
constraints, including concerns for by-catch of other species.  Harvest plans
will be consistent with objectives to protect stocks of concern and allocation
priorities.  Any opening(s) will be of limited duration and harvester
compliance with requirements for the fishery will be a factor in determining
whether there will be further openings.

Arrangements to participate in this fishery must be co-ordinated with the Area
E Harvest Committee and the list of participants will be finalized by Friday,
August 28, 2015. For further information, please contact Area E Harvest
Committee advisors Darrel McEachern at grandpadarrel@hotmail.com and Stuart
McDonald at saltystewart@gmail.com


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Barbara Mueller,
Resource Manager
DFO Lower Fraser Area
Tel: (604)666-2370
Email: barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0927
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: typhoon on August 25, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
Commercial fishing is higher in the pecking order than recreational fishing so that's not a big surprise.
I'm certainly in favour of more selective harvest methods. I hope they publish the results.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: bbwong on August 25, 2015, 04:47:00 PM
I hope DFO be more selective first. Obviously, recreational fishing is first one got by-catching.  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: PaulyD on August 25, 2015, 05:08:05 PM
Ok i've tried reading it about six times and i still cant figure out what that last post means can someone help out here ???
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: bbwong on August 25, 2015, 05:09:42 PM
As Rodney said "your representatives at the SFAC have been busy advocating for an opening with DFO".
Please stand together and make recreational out of the lowest pecking order.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: PaulyD on August 25, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
So what your saying is make the recs a bigger priority than the commercial guys ?
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: anorden on August 25, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
Commercial fishing is higher in the pecking order than recreational fishing so that's not a big surprise.
I'm certainly in favour of more selective harvest methods. I hope they publish the results.

IIRC commercial fishers officially get first priority for sockeye and pinks. Recreational get priority for Chinook and coho. Nobody wants chums.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: PaulyD on August 25, 2015, 05:43:00 PM
Doesnt the commercial fleet take a whole bunch of chum out of the fraser come october? Maybe for the roe ?
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: bbwong on August 25, 2015, 05:49:49 PM
So what your saying is make the recs a bigger priority than the commercial guys ?

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say make any bigger priority than the commercial guys. What I am trying say is to be fair to everyone.

DFO closed the lower Fraser because the chance of by-catching sockeye. They knew that it will happen in FN and commercial not Recreational.

They just simply close everything because they didn't want to open recreational without open FN and commercial.

Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: juno on August 25, 2015, 08:02:45 PM
well ,and the end of the day, lets be patient , rain coming
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Noahs Arc on August 26, 2015, 04:38:17 AM
well ,and the end of the day, lets be patient , rain coming


Raining does not cause migrating sockeye to multiply. Although I wish it did...
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: sg6804 on August 26, 2015, 08:49:33 AM
If its all about protecting the sockeye then none of the DFO and PSC decisions make any sense. They say they the run size is smaller than expected , water temps to high and blame all kinds of other problems and yet native fisheries are allowed to net the river  for Chinook food  opening sure its their right to fish however sockeye are caught and kept , The commercial fleet will get a opening for pinks soon and yes sockeye will be caught but dumped back over the side but how many become to stressed to continue the long journey up river, The USA commercial fleet gets an opening this weekend as well as USA natives  as per the PSC latest release this means more sockeye caught ,The PSC  and DFO test net daily and take thousands of fish over their test season  this is all good by the DFO and PSC.

 The sports fishers are not allowed to fish the lower tidal Fraser river for Pinks or Chinooks yet they are the least impact to the sockeye run of all the fishing groups that could fish the tidal Fraser river .Not to mention what is the financial impact to communities , businesses ,  tourism , etc , by not letting sport fishers fish . If it is truly about protecting the sockeye then the PSC and DFO had better take a long hard look at what they are doing to hurt the run and not just point the finger at the sport fishing group and close it for the one fishing group . None of this makes any sense to me but the DFO and PSC know best right?
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: CohoJake on August 26, 2015, 09:11:59 AM

Raining does not cause migrating sockeye to multiply. Although I wish it did...
One still leading theory is that high water temps cause the sockeye to defer returning for one year, causing the next year's run to have more 5 year fish.  Rain could lower water temps and coax more fish to return rather than defer.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: clarki on August 26, 2015, 09:28:36 AM
None of this makes any sense to me but the DFO and PSC know best right?

Unless you have expertise in international relations, political science (including lobbying), stakeholder engagement (including First Nations), economics, fisheries science (including run forecasting), resource allocation and law enforcement, then maybe they do know best.

It's a big world out there and it's hard to understand the complexity of the issues from just a single perspective.

While I hope to be able to fish for pink salmon in the Fraser, I choose to focus on the angling opportunities that I do have, rather than the ones I don't.

And that's my self righteous soapbox for the day :)     
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Derp on August 26, 2015, 10:09:50 AM
Unless you have expertise in international relations, political science (including lobbying), stakeholder engagement (including First Nations), economics, fisheries science (including run forecasting), resource allocation and law enforcement, then maybe they do know best.

It's a big world out there and it's hard to understand the complexity of the issues from just a single perspective.

While I hope to be able to fish for pink salmon in the Fraser, I choose to focus on the angling opportunities that I do have, rather than the ones I don't.

And that's my self righteous soapbox for the day :)     

Yeah, lets never question the DFO's actions and trust the govt fully with our natural resources...seems legit
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: sg6804 on August 26, 2015, 11:47:51 AM
Unfortunately i don't have the qualifications you listed ,however i have emailed the DFO several times asking how the system works and why they have closed the tidal Fraser to sport fishing , No answer to me emails , In my opinion the system is broken and needs to be changed . Do i have all answers on how to fix it    No i do not ,  But I do  believe that if the river is closed it should be closed for all user groups , if it is open then it is open for all user groups ,i find it very frustrating that some groups can fish for salmon when we cant as sport fishing is the lowest impact to sockeye in the tidal Fraser

Just to add I have been fishing the Lower Fraser all year for Sturgeon  when i have not been up at the lakes in Kamloops , Last night was beautiful out on the Fraser between Golden Ears Bridge and mission , It was nice to see the amount of salmon boiling and jumping in that part of river as its the  most i have seen all summer

Cheers

Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Apennock on August 26, 2015, 12:54:43 PM
Yeah, lets never question the DFO's actions and trust the govt fully with our natural resources...seems legit

Feel free to question government and regulatory bodies but to outright discount what they're saying with the evidence and data that they base their decision on vs. what "makes sense to [you]" is unproductive and a little ridiculous.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Derp on August 26, 2015, 01:07:07 PM
Feel free to question government and regulatory bodies but to outright discount what they're saying with the evidence and data that they base their decision on vs. what "makes sense to [you]" is unproductive and a little ridiculous.

Unless something new has come up regarding this subject, I and others as stated above would love to see DFO's "evidence and data that they base their decision" to close the lower Fraser to us sporties
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Derp on August 26, 2015, 01:07:54 PM
having said all this, i think it's too early for us to freak out as the pinks haven't even started to push in any real numbers. So i'll have to chill  8)
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Drewhill on August 26, 2015, 06:57:31 PM
I've already seen multiple guys fishing the lower fraser. Before I've let them know the river is closed I've asked them how it's been to get a bit more of an honest answer and nobody has yet to hit anything. Don't think we're missing out on anything yet.
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: juno on August 26, 2015, 07:23:09 PM
Yeah, lets never question the DFO's actions and trust the govt fully with our natural resources...seems legit   Who's gonna vote harper in again?  not  me
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: BCfisherman97 on August 26, 2015, 09:32:22 PM
Lots of pinks jumping in burnaby area today
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Tenz85 on August 26, 2015, 11:04:27 PM
Has the lower fraser ever been open more than a few days while the upper is closed?
Title: Re: Lower fraser
Post by: Zackattack on August 26, 2015, 11:20:10 PM
Yeah, lets never question the DFO's actions and trust the govt fully with our natural resources...seems legit   Who's gonna vote harper in again?  not  me

Never voted him in before. Surely won't now. What a clown.