Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: ynot on August 14, 2015, 02:03:34 PM
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the fraser is closed tonight for salmon above mission bridge. about time.
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can you link the dfo posting please?
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Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0858-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Region 2 - Fraser River: Mission Bridge to Alexandra Bridge - Immediate Closure of all Salmon Fishing
Effective one hour after sunset on Friday, August 14, 2015 until further
notice, fishing for salmon is not permitted on the Fraser River in Region 2.
Region 2 waters are those waters between the downstream edge of the CPR bridge
at Mission, BC to the downstream side of the Alexandra Bridge.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon combined
with record water temperatures in the Fraser River have resulted in no
allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's priorities are
to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the spawning grounds.
The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye impacts and
provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social and
ceremonial purposes.
Recreational fishing opportunities for trout, steelhead and sturgeon and other
non-salmon species in this area remain open.
Recreational fishing opportunities on the Fraser River for pink and chum salmon
are anticipated later in the season subject to available abundance.
Variation Order: 2015-395
Notes:
Anglers are advised to check http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-
eng.html for fishing closures and other recreational fishing information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia’s toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474)
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller
DFO Lower Fraser Area
Tel: (604)666-2370
Email: barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0859-RECREATIONAL - Salmon - Area 29 (Fraser River Mouth) and Tidal Fraser River: - Immediate Closure of all Salmon Fishing
Effective at 23:59 Friday, August 14, 2015 until further notice, fishing for
salmon is not permitted in Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 and 29-10 and the tidal
waters of the Fraser River.
Subareas 29-6, 29-7, 29-9 and 29-10 are those waters also known as the banana.
The tidal waters are those waters of the Fraser River from the mouth to the
downstream edge of the CPR bridge at Mission, BC.
Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon combined
with record water temperatures in the Fraser River have resulted in no
allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's priorities are
to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the spawning grounds.
The Department will manage all fisheries to minimize sockeye impacts and
provide priority access to First Nations' fishing for food, social and
ceremonial purposes.
Recreational fishing opportunities on the Fraser River for pink and chum salmon
are anticipated later in the season subject to available abundance.
Variation Order: 2015-394
Notes:
Anglers are advised to check http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-
eng.html for fishing closures and other recreational fishing information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336 or the British Columbia’s toll-free RAPP line (Report All
Poachers and Polluters) at 1-877-952-RAPP (7277).
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at
1-(866)431-FISH (3474)
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller
DFO Lower Fraser Area
Tel: (604)666-2370
Email: barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0859
Sent August 14, 2015 at 13:59
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
If you would like to unsubscribe, please submit your request at: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=manage_subscription
If you have any questions, please contact us via e-mail to: OpsCentre@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Wow.
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(http://cdn2.knowyourmobile.com/sites/knowyourmobilecom/files/styles/gallery_wide/public/7/50/tumblr_mh1yybp16y1rlo1q2o1_1280.jpg?itok=rG9wUkoE)
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What. A. Joke.
They seriously need to change the regulations
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Recreational fishing opportunities for trout, steelhead and sturgeon and other
non-salmon species in this area remain open.
Steelhead ??
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Steelhead ??
They consider is ocean trout :D
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If September 1st rolls around and the Fraser is still closed, I am guessing the Vedder will get rather busy :)
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Definitely sucks - but its for the better I guess. Its important to look at the bigger picture
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test results for summer run sockeye are looking grim. from over 4 million down to just over 1 million.
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If September 1st rolls around and the Fraser is still closed, I am guessing the Vedder will get rather busy :)
If the Fraser's still closed by then, the Vedder will be an absolute gong show. It would be nice if the DFO could restrict certain methods on the Vedder as well.. Make it no bottom bouncing, and no excessively long leaders. Of course they would need to have patrollers on the Vedder to catch the snaggers. I know it would be pretty hard to do, so I wouldn't count on it. :-\
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Let's pray they open it by then, I don't even want to think about what the Vedder would turn into if it's the only pink fishery out here.
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Let's hope instead of bitching about all this; some folks get up off their lazy ***es and kindly educate before throwing stones, call RAPP (even if they think it does nothing).
So many folks here think they are the first ones to the dance.
There are many of us who have been here before (and some many more times than I)
Passion is a great thing it makes you feel for something other than yourself (though some arrogant bastards think it's all about them)
Oh. Ya!
VOTE!!!!
There's an election coming up that won't change things this year but the current government who shall remain nameless has either avoided environment issues or let them slide as they were not important enough: DFO cuts, Coast Guard cuts......
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Way to go bottom bouncers!
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If the Fraser's still closed by then, the Vedder will be an absolute gong show. It would be nice if the DFO could restrict certain methods on the Vedder as well..
People need to know FOC/DFO has no control over fishing methods in non-tidal water as it's the jurisdiction of the Province.Try writing/emailing the Premier Christy Clark, Mary Polak the Minister of the Environment and you MLA. Whining on the internet will get you no where.
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They said they would close it if people were using non selective measures and they did, this should be no surprize to anyone, too bad, lots of people were doing good bar fishing. I saw at least 20 bottom bouncers out today and no one else but me bar fishing. Wtf why do one group of anglers think that just because one species is open that they should be allowed to snag anything going by is beyond me.
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Does anyone actually read the DFO notice ? It has nothing to do with bottom bouncing.
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Way to go bottom bouncers!
How did the bottom bouncers close the Banana?
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People need to know FOC/DFO has no control over fishing methods in non-tidal water as it's the jurisdiction of the Province.Try writing/emailing the Premier Christy Clark, Mary Polak the Minister of the Environment and you MLA. Whining on the internet will get you no where.
But they do have jurisdiction over Salmon in non tidal waters and they can close the Chilliwack/Vedder to Salmon fishing just like they did the non Tidal part of the Fraser as of tonight up to Alexandria.
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Thank you flossers and snaggers for shutting things down for the ethical anglers.
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"Current run size estimates of Fraser River Summer Run sockeye salmon combined with record water temperatures in the Fraser River have resulted in no allowable harvest and a conservation concern. The Department's priorities are
to ensure that there is sufficient sockeye returning to the spawning grounds."
The species of concern right now is sockeye salmon, and at the current level no allowable harvest is available for the recreational sector and by-catches need to be kept below a certain %. When resource managers conclude that % cannot be kept within the limit, the fishery closes, as you can see in this case. When the fishery opened in early August, Fisheries and Oceans Canada performed flight count in the Lower Fraser River to determine the % of anglers who are flossing/not fishing selectively. Preliminary results show that on opening day, 71% of participants were not fishing selectively. It was a lot better a few days after that, 38% were not fishing selectively. Last weekend, 61% were not fishing selectively, so the % went up again. By doing so, resource managers concluded that too many sockeye salmon were being incidentally caught, so the fishery closes. Obviously the tidal portion and mouth of the Fraser have very few participants who intercept sockeye salmon, but once the number of incidental catches reach the limit and no more by-catches are allowed, a total closure is needed.
The same scenario played out two years ago if people can remember that. Pink salmon fishery opened in early September once summer run sockeye salmon passed through, so we can expect the same to occur again. The unfortunate part is that some pink salmon opportunities will be missed out in late August, beside the excellent chinook salmon fishing opportunities right now.
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Thanks Rod for pointing out that flossers did indeed cause this closer.
Maybe they will learn to fish now.
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lets be clear. The non selective anglers [snaggers, bottombouncers, flossers] reporting sockeye releases in excess of 20 fish per outing are the reason for the closure. Dealing with these groups of anglers is problematic. The control of west coast salmon angling is in the hands of a select few on a sport fish advisory board which are the group DFO uses to dictate everything from a sportfishing for salmon percpective. They have no interest in salmon once past their waters and probably enjoy us all being closed. This is the real world from my angling experience. Our licenses need to mean more. Control is the problem and we need to take back control for our area.
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When the fishery opened in early August, Fisheries and Oceans Canada performed flight count in the Lower Fraser River to determine the % of anglers who are flossing/not fishing selectively. Preliminary results show that on opening day, 71% of participants were not fishing selectively. It was a lot better a few days after that, 38% were not fishing selectively. Last weekend, 61% were not fishing selectively, so the % went up again. By doing so, resource managers concluded that too many sockeye salmon were being incidentally caught, so the fishery closes.
Obviously Rodney, you are much more in the loop w.r.t to the decision making process, but it seems to me this is pretty crucial information that impacted the closure, though not articulated at all in the latest announcement.
The previous opening was very clearly stated by the DFO to be contingent on selective fishing methods or risk total closure. Apparently they monitored and have quantifiable numbers to suggest the majority of people were not complying and therefore the fishery gets shut down, but nary a word that that was a contributing factor. A member of the general public not privy to the backroom discussions would need to really read between the lines of the announcement to interpret it as such, and even then its a stretch.
I'm actually pretty appalled that the rate was compliance was actually that abysmally low. If they went to such lengths to warn about selectively fishing then is there a rationale for not highlighting that now as a factor in the decision, if it was indeed the case?
If the BB'ers really did ruin it for everyone this time, then as a sport fishing community I feel we should have access to that information. I guess another way to phrase this is, if compliance to selective fishing methods was 100%, would the chinook sport fishery still be open? If so then the DFO needs to articulate that. When they have another opening for future runs using selective fishing methods, then we can use this year's results as a lesson for the future and maybe as ammunition for more future self policing and education.
edit: Just found this link dated two days ago that said a creel survey found that 70% were BB'ing.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/321633981.html
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But they do have jurisdiction over Salmon in non tidal waters and they can close the Chilliwack/Vedder to Salmon fishing just like they did the non Tidal part of the Fraser as of tonight up to Alexandria.
If you check the regs you'll see there are many streams and lakes they close to salmon fishing or are never open despite the presence of fish. The Fraser has been closed because of a specific conservation concern where presently closure is the only way to address that concern. What similar concern could close the V/C?
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I have to admit to some confusion.
I do not fish for sockeye but is the problem due to people using flossing techniques for other species such as Chinook or Pinks?
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The problem is that flossing does not target any one species in particular, so the by catch of sockeye is very high, whereas with bar fishing it is rare to catch anything other then a spring this time of the year. It can definitely still happen but not anywhere to the same extent as when you bottom bounce.
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The problem is that people were standing in exactly the same places and using exactly the same methods as they do when they are targeting sockeye during a sockeye opening, there can be no denying the fact that they were targeting sockeye.
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every bottom bouncer likely snags 5-20 socks a day depending on how long it takes them to get a spring.
Many do not get a chinook so they are just spending all their hours fishing and snagging sockeye that they can't keep.
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Just one question here - and a little bit of playing devils advocate.
The dfo surveys were done from height with helicopters doing a fly over, correct? They classify everyone holding a rod casting (other than fly guys) as a bottom bouncer as far as I know. Therefore, anyone tossing spoons or floating roe by their surveys are classified as non compliant. This would even be the case in the lower river, even though we all know you can't bottom bounce down there, and guys were most likely tossing spoons for early pinks.
It would be nice if DFO would actually post their reports and their standards for what they use to consider compliant and non. Those numbers could potentially be way out depending on their standards.
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Good point Dan
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DanL, those are good questions and I'm sure will be brought up at the next SFAC meeting.
Just to add some more information to my previous post as I have been corrected a bit after discussing with my colleagues about today's closure. The main reason of the closure is that the run has now been downgraded so it is now at a size which does not provide any openings for all sectors. If First Nations are not given any additional communal sockeye salmon openings for this and upcoming weekends, it means the recreational sector's salmon fishery closes to avoid any by-catches of sockeye salmon since all fish are for conservation now. It's the only way to protect the run at the moment. So now the only salmon fishery which will occur in the next little while is First Nations' chinook salmon communal fishery.
The rec sector really needs to explore ideas on how to participate in the chinook fishery without impacting the sockeye fishery at all.
The other point I should brought up is compliance. Many here are suggesting there are lots of people not fishing selectively on the river. When we were out two days ago, the bar rods probably outnumbered bottom bouncing rods by 10 to 1. It was quite impressive. I guess it all depends on where you were fishing but don't generalize the whole fishery by what you are seeing in a small section of the river. The compliance rates I posted above are preliminary and some of the questions I posed when I saw the numbers include why spincasting is absent as a category in the count. Are we now counting all people holding a rod out there as bottom bouncers? Again, these are all up for discussion this fall.
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Although I fully agree that if people can't follow the rules there has to be consequences, the fact that they are not coming out and saying fully that the Flossers was the reason is BS. Hiding behind the severely reduced numbers and warmer water should of affected the other fishers on the river also. Removing thousands of fish from a system has a lot larger affect on the system then sport fishers. They should of implemented rolling closures starting at the nouth to allow fish to make it to certain points and allow other groups to catch if they wanted to make a real difference. But that is not the point, it is not about science or maintaining stocks. It is about the appearance of doing something while not rocking the boat.
Then there is the news coming out USA. How is it that they are openly saying the rivers are closed because science has proven the fish are diseased and are not surviving. Imagine that; a sound, proven reason being openly shared explaining why decisions are being made. They must be crazy thinking that people can understand the such concepts and would actually be willing to do there part.
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The problem is that people were standing in exactly the same places and using exactly the same methods as they do when they are targeting sockeye during a sockeye opening, there can be no denying the fact that they were targeting sockeye.
Remember the flak we, fishforever, Gwyn and others took here, at some meeting Gwyn I attended and elsewhere when we forecast this would happen. The good part will be now that some new regulations will be pushed for to bring in some new regulations to curtail this blight on the fishing community.
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DanL, those are good questions and I'm sure will be brought up at the next SFAC meeting.
Just to add some more information to my previous post as I have been corrected a bit after discussing with my colleagues about today's closure. The main reason of the closure is that the run has now been downgraded so it is now at a size which does not provide any openings for all sectors.
Thanks for taking the time to keep us in the loop, or at least as much as you are able or allowed to. Often govt management seems to operate in a black box, so any insight into the processes is very informative, at least to me. Management of salmon stocks against all the various interests is clearly no easy task, and the lack of transparency makes it not so obvious why certain decisions are made and results in frustration in the sportfishing community. Not meant as a criticism, just my personal perception.
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They should close all salmon fishing , period. Including ocean fishing. If the fresh water fishers have to stop fishing then salt water fishers should stop too. I know salt water fishermen who have caught their possession limit , and taken there catch home , then gone back out fishing, to kill more salmon.
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They should close all salmon fishing , period. Including ocean fishing. If the fresh water fishers have to stop fishing then salt water fishers should stop too. I know salt water fishermen who have caught their possession limit , and taken there catch home , then gone back out fishing, to kill more salmon.
Clearly someone who doesn't have a boat. Jealousy is unbecoming.
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The supreme court of Canada has made it clear.Conservation trumps all other priorities.Shutting out one part of the Canadian citizenry while allowing others to fish and remove large numbers smacks of discrimination.There is either a conservation concern or there is not. FOC should not be flouting the law.You can not be a little bit pregnant.
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I don't meant to sound stupid but I am new to fishing in the chuck and am wondering if waters around tsawwassen ferry terminal is part of region 2 fishing closures as we want to see if there are any pinks holding out there that we could try catching with buzz bombs
I ask because I have tried the dfo website and it's so damn confusing so I just want to make sure if we allowed to fish out there or not.
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Yes tsw. Ferry terminal is closed to all salmon fishing too
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They should close all salmon fishing , period. Including ocean fishing. If the fresh water fishers have to stop fishing then salt water fishers should stop too. I know salt water fishermen who have caught their possession limit , and taken there catch home , then gone back out fishing, to kill more salmon.
If you KNOW of these fishermen.... http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/enf-loi/report-signaler-eng.htm
REPORT them!
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I do remember that very well chris
but what I would like to know and im sure a lot of people on this site is who do we talk to and in what format is best suitable
there are a lot of good sound ideas here
but how do we effectively voice them to the proper authority that can make the necessary changes
do we march on mass to crissys office
or do we head for Ottawa on a boat train
who do we talk to
cnm