Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trout Slayer on June 23, 2004, 10:11:38 PM
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I have thought about this for a while and would like some input from some of the members. I currently have 20lbs Maxima mono on my reel and would like to switch over to a fire line/braided/no stretch etc. ;D Looking for the best and opinions if it is worth it. Heard about some eating away at the guides. Any that wouldn't? Thanks.
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Trou slayer, sorry for what happened earlier. If I were you I would just stick to the monofilament because I've used fireline before and once it gets tangled it's impossible to untangle it. I've also heard from a few guys that fire line chews right through ceramic guides so it would be better if you had steel guides.
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Trou slayer, sorry for what happened earlier. If I were you I would just stick to the monofilament because I've used fireline before and once it gets tangled it's impossible to untangle it. I've also heard from a few guys that fire line chews right through ceramic guides so it would be better if you had steel guides.
Ya, the mono is pretty good I guess but the stretch it creates is pretty bad; with it snapping more easy, would like to save some more gear.
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I use fireline for my main. never had it cut at my guides. Never have I cut someones mono when they've crossed me/I've crossed them. I've generally found fireline EASIER to untangle than mono.
my $0.02
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I am using fireline for almost two years now, and I am happy with it. Though it is very strong line and if it does get tangled on bottom you will have difficult time to break it (much more difficult than for the same rating mono).
You will have to pay attention to your guides though, specially the top one. My fireline just cut through it when I was fishing this winter (I guess combination of cold weather and strong line). I noticed it right away as part of gide was left and cut my line like butter. As that usually never hapens I checked guides and found the top one broken. It cost me I think $2 to fix it, but I didn't leave fishing. Just used my pliers to smooth metal surface of guide not to damage my line and kept fishing.
It is not easy to unknot it, if you get bird nest, but just be patient and do not pull too strong on the line and take your time. Beauty of it is that no knot will damage it, and you can keep using the same line. Just watch your hands when pulling as braided can easily cut through your skin.
Finally, I wouldn't go back to mono, if for nothing else than for the fact there is no memory to that line, and I do not feel so bad about wasting line and contributing to overall pollution :)
Hope it helps.
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and so the great debate about braids VS mono continues ;D ;D
my 2 cents on braids:
- love the complete lack of stretch, the fact that you can fish with a line that is 100 LB test but is only 8lbs test in diameter (the current stuff i have), has excellent sensitivity, can detect the water bottom, rocks etc, fish bites with ease, can saw through lily pad roots like a buzzsaw, no loss of fish due to line snapping, nicks etc, the line floats, making line pickup so much faster than waterlogged mono, instant, positive hookset with just a flick of the wrist, like the fact that you can fish with braids in the sun without line damage from UV rays over time, like the fact that you can take a flyline cleaner like Scientific Angler and wipe the line down, making it super fast shooting through the spinning reel guides.
cons: braided lines will severely slice you skin open, or sever limbs (big tuna fishing) if you are careless and don't watch the line when a fish (even a little coho) runs with the line, birdsnests on the baitcaster reel require line cutting to fix. can be expensive for the better qaulity braids (FIRELINE is not a true braid, rather it is heat fused chopped Dyneema fibers), i'm talking about the Spectra braids that are tightly woven.
am currently experimenting with a thick braided line.....am tightly braiding three equal lengths together to make a lightweight flyline similar to the old braided silk lines.
have several reels spooled with braid of various LB's and diameters. i use a braided line on my coarse fishing pole, with a flouracarbon leader.
have never had a problem with the braids cutting the line guides. cheap guids (plastic) or some aluminum guides may get cuts, but this is often due to grit on the braid that acts like an abrasive, not the line itself.
my 2 cents
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I have used Berkley Fireline for several years now and the following are my observations:
Advantages:
- no stretch resulting in easier hooksets
- small diameter. My 14 lb. Fireline has the diameter of 6 lb. test
- floats. You can mend your line if you are floatfishing
- sensitivity.
Disadvantages:
- very expensive. Over $50.00 for 300 yards of 14 lb. test.
- Virtually impossible to untangle if you have a knot
- Tendency to dig into your line
Finally, from my experience the Fireline has never damaged any of my guides. Last year I've fished 125 times all using Fireline.
Hope you find the info useful.
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I have had no other problems with Braided/fireline other than the odd birds nest(which I also got with Mono).I am a bit more careful when seeting up the reel(levelwind)than before.I havn't noticed any attributable wear to the guides all in all a bit more confident (a must no matter what tackle you use)that should I hook the mother of all ::), I will not lose it due to line break.Remember to Vote,you can't bitch about the results if you didn't make the effort to mark the box
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I think braided lines are a lot better than mono for most fishing situations. For some situations like fishing the Vedder I prefer mono for various reasons but if your going to BB in the Fraser river then a braided line is the way to go.
I've tried fireline and I personally hated it. It began to fall apart to easy and get frayed. It's not a line to use in the Fraser BB. If your going to use it in the Vedder it's not all that bad of a line to use. I've now switched to tuff line and love it, backlashs are a breeze to get out and the line holds up a lot better than fireline and doesn't fray. I also found it casts a lot smoother and is easier to handle.
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Fireline works for me, been using it for a good dozen years and have never experienced any of my guides damaged. One advantage I like with Fieline is that in slow moving flows it sits straight and does'nt curl like mono and sink to much, so as it plays out, rod tip low, when the fish takes just lift your rod and fish for dinner.
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i agree with FA. Fireline and other braids can dig into the layers of the spool. i had 500 yards of a Spectra/Kevlar/Dyneema mixed blend braid (80 lb test, 10 LB diameter) dig into the layers below on the spool and backlash, resulting in the 3 OZ halibut jig weight whipping around and shattering the boat windshield when i was halibut fishing last year with my buddies. you need to wipe the line down with a good line cleaner, as you spool it onto the reel (friends help here!!) it''s best to spool it tightly onto the spool. every once in a while, take off your hook and tie on a 2 OZ weight and cast out. on the retrieve, this will help respool about 150 yards of line quite tightly, resulting in less ":digging in"..
8)
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fireline for what type of fishing? and what is your set up... if your fishing on a sandy bottom.... it will slice thru your aluminum oxide guides like butter.
for braided lines.. go with the best ;) Power pro ;D
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Hi Otto
couldn't agree more,even with the post scripts re: sentences,Why does the media not show the faces of the judges or even report on their Batting averages(so to speak)embaress the B*g**rs into doing a reasonable job instead of turning the system into a social experiment
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here is a bunch of info on braided/fused/etc lines (sorry Rod, i hope this does'nt overwhelm the FWR server ;D )
I think that I should explain the difference between "Dyneema" and "Spectra" here:
Both ‘Spectra’ and ‘Dyneema’ are HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) fibers. However, Dyneema (Manufactured in Europe and Asia by Toyobo/Dyneema, DMS), is recognized as being of a slightly ‘lower quality’ than the American version "Spectra". (The quality of Dyneema generally is very good). Also, the individual filaments that make up a Dyneema yarn are smaller than individual fibers in a spectra yarn; this translates to better abrasion resistance.
The older style Dyneema ‘braids’ (manufactured in Europe) have many inherent problems in their use. Often the advantages gained whilst using them were outweighed by their many drawbacks. These Dyneema braids include the ones currently being sold under various labels by the big UK carp fishing / specialist angling tackle suppliers.
You might be thinking that these braided lines are nothing new?? You are correct; many of these items have been on the market for nearly 10 years. Spiderwire, one of the original ‘Super lines’ had made its mark with many carp anglers (especially on the overseas circuits) in the early 1990’s.
The development of these new age ‘Super lines’ has obviously been a slow but steadily progressing area. Certain varieties have sprung up along the road to where we find ourselves now, from the excellent Spiderline (a type of ‘fusion braid’) to the newer Spectra/Dacron Hybrids.
The term ‘Fusion’ comes from where the line is heated in manufacture, enabling the fibers to become ‘fused’ together to some degree. This process removes many (but not all) of the problems found in the earlier varieties. But still, all was not resolved... Wind knots still caused problems if the caster was not ever vigilant to the amount of tension applied when slowing casts / retrieving these lines. Also common, was its tendency to fray. It seems these lines would start to get ‘furry’ after only a few sessions. This was a serious issue when you consider the cost of these lines. The ‘fusing’ aspect of these products seemed to solve the problem
of ring wear also, but those nasty habits for knotting and tangles were still always present. The worst aspects to these ‘fused’ lines were their poor abrasion resistance.
I believe that the word fusion is misused in these products. (Spider Wire Fusion and Fireline) If you pull apart the line, you will find that the fibers in the structure are not fused with the exception perhaps of some fibers at the surface. They are coated with a plastic "skin" that binds the fibers together. The reason they get "Furry" is that the plastic skin is rubbed off the line, then the un-integrated fibers are exposed to every little abrasion and deteriorate quickly.
Incidentally, Spider Wire Fusion and Spectra lines should not be confused as being the same thing. Spectra line is soft and extremely flexible, whereas Spider Wire is stiff and hard, because its fibers are ‘fused’ together by heat as explained above.
Spider Wire Fusion is made with Spectra Fibers, but the fused lines are not braided. Braided structures tend to have better abrasion resistance sine the fibers are held in place through the braiding process.
The majority of braids that are currently in the carp fishing 'market place' are sinking versions. Some include 'Kevlar' in their make up, around 10-20%, this material is included to make the braid sink in the water, to some degree.
Kevlar (Para-Aramid fiber) is denser than water having a specific gravity of 1.38-1.44, unlike Dyneema, which has a specific gravity of 0.96 (Water is of course 1). The only 'problem' with Kevlar, is its negative reaction when exposed to UV light. Exposure to sunlight, over a long period of time, will reduce its strength by up to 40%, thereby lowering the overall ‘life’ of the line. Kevlar also stretches under tension, at a slightly different rate to that of Dyneema. This may cause undue stress on the Dyneema filaments making up the other 80% of the line, potentially causing a line failure. A similar problem was encountered when adding Dacron to Spectra (see below). Not something you want to hear when paying £60 odd for 600 meters!! Also Kevlar is very abrasive, not only to guides but also to itself. In dynamic bending, it is difficult to predict when Aramids will fail.
Other 'sinking' lines contain 'Polyester', in the same percentage amounts i.e.. 10-20%. This material is also added to make the finished product sink in the water. However, its abrasion resistant qualities are negligible, and it is added to the lines make up to reduce overall cost of manufacture. The only advantageous factor being, it does make the line sink.
The braid lines being sold under the labels of the big UK carp firms are generally manufactured in Europe (Holland) although, as I mentioned before, the quality of material used, Dyneema, is slightly inferior to that of Spectra.
No sinking version is, currently, manufactured in the US. Because they apparently have no need for one as they are mainly predator fishermen using lures. This does not mean however that one will not be coming on the market in the future. I understand ‘talks’ are in progress; we will have to wait and see on that one. But it will not contain either Kevlar or Polyester as, in my opinion, these materials are used to reduce manufacturing costs, as they are considerably cheaper to buy than Dyneema, which will set you back a 'mere' £2000 per Kilo, trade!
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continued.....
For the record, the reasons why I think the new ‘Super lines’ would be better to use than monofilament fishing lines are this.
* The line will last longer than mono, thereby proving better value for money in the long run.
* It is infinitely better at transmitting movement / Vibration. Thereby improving sensitivity and bite registration.
* It is far thinner. Allowing the angler to cast further, and load more line on their reels.
Extensive analysis / field-testing of the new ‘Super lines’ both in the UK, USA and other parts of the world is proving very positive.
Although we are still only in the early stages of actually ‘testing’ it in the European carp fishing environment, early feedback from those dozen or so highly respected anglers who have received samples has been very encouraging, to say the least. You may well have seen reviews in the angling press, for ‘Super lines’ such as the excellent, ‘Power Pro’ version.
The new Spectra braided ‘Super lines’ are unlike the braids currently on the market. They are not manufactured in the same way, and therefore do not behave in the same way, nor do they exhibit the inherent 'problems' encountered when Dyneema and ‘Fusion’ braids.
Unlike the older style braided lines, fishing with the new braided ‘Super lines’ is as easy as fishing with monofilament. Listed below are some of the immediate advantages of the new ‘Super lines’. Please note that I have used Power Pro as a benchmark:
* Rounder and more compact than other braided lines.
* Spools and packs better on any kind of reel
* Does not bury in the spool like the older style braids
* Smoother surface texture
* Sails effortlessly through your rod rings for longer casts
* Gentle on interior ring surfaces
* Significantly reduces wind knots & rod tip wraps
* Compact structure picks up less water
* Improved knot performance
And, also, provides all this without compromising the properties that anglers, who have used it, now come to appreciate in other
‘Super lines’:
* Near Zero Stretch
* Unbelievable strength for the diameter
* No reel memory
* Improved abrasion resistance
So how much does all this cost?? As an indicator, 150 yards of Power Pro retails at £16.99. A general lack of knowledge about the new ‘Super lines’ advantages seem to be their biggest downfall at the present time.
This new product brings with it many advantages over the older versions of braided Spectra. The most noticeable difference is that the samples of ‘Power Pro’ we've tested / used shows no inclination to break down and fray. Most anglers report much better abrasion resistance compared to the older style lines, but when you see any line fray, this means that fibers are breaking down, indicating that it’s time to retie. I would urge you to practice common sense…
With respect to abrasion resistance, ‘Super lines’ appear as abrasion resistant to a braid of the same diameter, regardless of test rating. Point being, a braids diameter is the major factor to whether it is resistant to abrasion or not. Spectra is just very good quality Dyneema.
That is why ‘Super lines’ are stronger, as far as diameter of line goes, than their competitors.
What I'm trying to put across, is that most ‘Super lines’ are as abrasion resistant as its equivalent diameter in a 'normal' braid. But its test is greater for the same diameter, a trade off if you like. So 50lb test would be as abrasion resistant as 30 lb 'normal' braid. For instance Fox sinking, Fireline etc. are thicker than, and contain more material than, ‘Super line’ of the same test. So, therefore, will be more abrasion resistant pro rata. If diameters came into it, Quicksilver 45 lb for example would probably rate, equivalent in diameter, to 100 lb test ‘Super line’. Abrasion resistance is very difficult to characterize since there are different types of abrasive media in the water. Power Pro for example is great against the barnacles found on the pilings of drill rigs, against Zebra
Muscles, and many other structure, but really bad in Coral reefs where monofilaments do much better. As a general rule of thumb, it is safe to say that thicker lines will have better abrasion resistance. In the case of the fusion lines, you also have the issue of a nonintegrated fiber bundle (twisted then coated), vs. a braided structure where the fibers are tightly held in the structure. The only analogy that I’ve been told is if you think of a cotton ball vs. a woven cotton cloth – if you rub a cotton ball over a surface the fibers are easily snagged and pulled out - in a woven cloth, the fibers are held in place and will not come apart.
Finally, if the marketing information / results from the US are true, you could well expect your new ‘Super line’ to last you a season or more with constant use!!Remember, these lines are extremely thin which makes them very likely to cut into your fingers. Always use a finger guard or some form of decent protection on your casting finger and be extra careful if you are pulling free of snags by wrapping the line around your hand. Never wrap these Super lines around your hand. Wrap it around a stick, or the side plate of your reel before trying to remove a snag.
I think it is important to mention that I personally use a length of anti tangle tubing or lead core leader above the
lead to avoid any possibility of damage to the fishes ‘flank’, although I have not encountered problems I would
sooner be safe than sorry.
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continued.....
These ‘Super lines’ can, of course, be used in the capacity of a shock leader in conjunction with mono if required. I would suggest the use of a ‘Grinner to Grinner knot’ for this situation if tying on a leader of similar size. If you are tying a very large diameter monofilament leader too much thinner Super line, I recommend the Albright knot.
A few ‘tips’ on using new age ‘Super lines’ –
Spooling Up – Leave at least enough monofilament to cover the bottom of the spool. When you put monofilament onto your spool, it stretches significantly even with a very small amount of tension. This stretch makes the line squeeze the barrel of the spool, gripping it tight. The ‘Super lines’ don’t stretch, so you don’t get this gripping action on the barrel of the spool. Attach the mono to the ‘Super line’ using a ‘Grinner to Grinner knot’ as mentioned previously.
Getting a run – Exaggerated striking, even at big distances, such as you might require using monofilament is not
necessary. Remember that every inch you move the tip of your rod is an inch of movement at the terminal
arrangement (hook).
Following are some tips to reduce the incidence of whip knots while fishing with a spinning reel:
1. Do not overfill the reel - leave at least 1/8" of rim at the top.
2. Close the bail arm manually.
3. Before you begin your retrieve, pull on the line after you've closed the bail to make sure all the wraps are tight.
Pulling on the line only takes a second while you're waiting for the bait to fall. This will reduce 90% of the problems!
Coloring ‘Super lines’ – The color is simply there to encapsulate the fiber, and in time will wear off. This is
normal, and the strength and performance of the line will not be affected, If you want to re-colour the line, simply take a permanent marker and color the last few meters whatever color best suits the situation you are fishing in.
‘Super lines’ as a hook length?
So what about using these new ‘Super lines’ as a hook length material?
Well, the answer has to be a yes! However, before we come to this conclusion, there is always the alleged problem / potential that braids can cause mouth damage. Some suggesting braids refusal to stretch under pressure plus, the very thin diameter of the braid acting almost like a ‘cheese wire’. Personally I’m not convinced, I have caught dozens of carp over the years utilizing braided hook lengths and braid as a mainline, very big fish included, and have seen no resulting damage.
I would like here to quote Tony Davies Patrick, who responded with the following, when posed with the question recently.
"I have used the 50 lb test braid (Spiderwire Spectra 2000) for hook lengths on thousands of fish and have never had problems with mouth damage. I use it and trust it. Only problem is that I can only get it in USA, and the bulk spools I need, it means a big lump out of my wallet!
But this is counteracted by the fact that the line lasts, and lasts and lasts…"
Need I say more?? Well yes, the fact is that a 20 lb breaking strain super line is the equivalent of a 6 lb mono, a 50 lb ‘Super line’ equivalent to 12 lb mono, with diameters in mm being 0.15 and 0.36 respectively.
The ‘Super line’ is therefore significantly thinner in diameter than other conventional braids on the market at
present.
For knotting your hook to a length of ‘Super line’ the ‘Palomar knot’ or 5 turn ‘Grinner knot’ is recommended.
Power Pro, which is manufactured by Innovative Textiles, Inc. appears at present to be by far the best new age
‘Super line’ on the market, most of the bad qualities which have been described above have been eliminated from Power Pro line.
Be warned though, as Spectra became more and more popular, a lot the other companies started selling their own version of it. Unfortunately, to save on costs, some of these companies blended Dacron with Spectra. This resulted in the line breaking well below its Test Rating. The breakage was due to the fact that the Dacron fibers stretched, whereas the Spectra fibers did not stretch, thus causing the Spectra fibers to break due to the fact that they were taking the majority of the strain.
To summarize, the new age ‘Spectra Fiber super braided fishing lines’ are awesome and definitely the line to use if sensitivity, high strength, good abrasion resistance and mega distances (if required) is what you are after.
:o :o :o
ow....my fingers are sprained..... :'( :'(
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nice copy and paste job otto ;) lol jk.. well maybe not ;D;D haha hehe
well i didnt read any of that... but i think hes recomanding that you first spool your reel with a layer of good quality mono... then braid line... that way. theres the mono to reduce ware on the spool. works for me :)
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Thanks for the great info, anyone try Power Pro?
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memememe!!!... they have this very nice coating on the line which makes it run through the guides alot smoother. get a nicer feel as your retreiving your line too.
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Great posts here. Up until this year, I've used 30# Fireline for the Fraser (BB). But this year decided to switch to 50# Tuff-Line XP. Used it on two outings so far. Just love it. Far superior, ie. castability, knot strength, minimal line residue on initial use, etc., to Fireline IMHO. Now thinking about switching my Vedder/Chehalis/Squamish gear over to Tuff XP as well. I wonder if the early Vedder Coho will spook easily with this stuff? A change of topic ... anybody see that great Cedar Planked Salmon recipe in today's Vancouver Sun ... yum :Pyum :P!
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yea i've currently got my baitcaster spooled up with 50# Tuff-Line Xp....i LOVE it!!!!!! 8)
(and yea that was a cut 'n' paste ;D ;D) whole wealth of info in that "paragraph" :D)
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i knew it! ;D :P hehehehe... woops... i thought last cast was long cast.. ahh ???
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The power pro is nice stuff, so is the XP. However, the XP is fl. yellow and it seems to turn a lot of people off. I have been using the same TUF Plus for sturgeon for 2 years now and its great.
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Hey Otto that line info should be worth a masters degree :)
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nah...the prof would probably run it through "turnitin.com" and i would get booted out of university.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Here's my take on the use of braid and "superlines",
I only use braid for Halibut fshing up north, I use 50 lb test TUFF line XP, the yellow stuff. Had no problems with it. When I go out with other people who use mono they have to keep positioning the biat to cope with line resistance in 300 ft of water, the braid stays straight up and down and feels everything, often too much, often you think you have a fish "bumping" your gear when it's just the bottom combined with the motion of the boat.
Braid can be very expensive, BUT consider this, you don't have to replace braid for years at a time, but mono SHOULD be replaced every couple of months for maximum performance. If you were to add up spoolng reels once with braid, versus spooling reels with mono a couple times a year, the costs should just about break even (no pun intended...).
Another issue that I have heard about (I have not personally encountered it, but it makes sense nonetheless) that braid lines will turn baitcaster reel drags to crap, these reels are not neccessarily designed for braided lines, or "superlines" so instead of the line absorbing any additional shock, it goes straight to the reel, forcing the drag gears to work overtime and essentially hurting the reels inner workings.
I appear to be the only one who has had line guide damage, the line has cut slightly into the tip top guide and created a small groove, but it doesn't effect the overall performance of the rod, nor the reel. I personally would rarely use braid for constant casting because it tends to burn my thumb (go ahead and call me a wuss...hehe).
Not to go out and call anyone "wrong", but I've actaully noticed the yellow in my line to fade a bit with constant use in direct sunlight. It may not have any structural effects on the line itself, but it fades regardless.
Also, one final note, are none of you guys concerned about thew warrenties on your rods ? I honestly have never seen a slmon rod rated for 50 lb test line, nor any reels rated for it.
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go with the tuff line XP the spider line and fire line are cupcakes in comparrison. Power pro is good too though
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All very good points, spudcote.
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I have tried four different types of braid lines:
- Berkley whiplash 50 and 60 LB - too soft and flattens
- heard all bad things about PowerPro so did not even tried it
- Berkley fireline 30 LB - frays too quick, too thick, hard to untangle
- new stealth line 60 and 80 LB - good, but expencive, not available in Canada
- Tuff Line XP (yellow) 50 and 65 LB - my current choice. No fraying like fireline, not too soft, very thing (200' of 65LB fits onto 6500 spool if tightly layered). I have 50LB on my reel other since the middle of last season and it looks like new. They now have 50LB and 65 LB in 200' spools and the price is comparable to Maxima - around $20. It is available now in most stores.
The main advantages of braid over the mono:
- line does not loose strength when pulling out snags (I have 80-90% recovery with 4oz, and 99% with 2oz)
- will quicker feel when fish is taking the hook :)
- can fit more line
Here is my BB setup perfected over 5 years of fishing.
1. Attach 4' - 5' of heavy braid (80-100LB) to your main line with blood knot and leave 1mm of each line after very tight pull. Carefully melt the ends with the lighter and quickly round with your fingers. This will create a good bind. A drop of crazy glue will secure the know as well. Tie the heavy braid to one end of the #3 3-way equal split swivel with palomar knot.
2. Attach a 6" steel looped leader to the other end of the swivel (you can buy them in 100 pack) and then tie mono leader to the steel loop.
3. Attach your betty to the third end of the swivel.
The purpose of the heavy braid is to protect your main line when your weight goes behind the rock and it pools like crazy. This way you have more chances to retrieve you setup. It's also more resistant to betty hits. The steel leader on the other end will protect your leader from the betty as well.
If more people use this setup, the less setups will be lost and the less fiish as well. Which will create a more enjoyable fishing experience for all of us. :)
One more advice to beginners. Do not pull the snag with your reel or rod (you will brake them easily). Have a friend to help you and wrap the line around the stick and loose the line from the reel while pulling it by the stick. For this purpose I carry a piece of plastic pipe with few layers of duct tape in my vest. :)
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Just got 250 yards of Power Pro spooled on my reel, smooth, very smooth 8) Looking forward to use it Saturday. Thanks for all the advice.
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I use 50# tuff xp because when I was using 30# fireline I was constantly losing gear (musta been my knots!). They sell those wire rigs now at tackles shops with a connection for leader, weight and mainline. They are the absolute BOMB as I've lost less weights/gear since trying it out. After pulling in many many bb rigs that were snagged it was easy to see that most lines were snapped just an inch or two above the weight, making the wire or heavier abrasion resistant line a better choice to connect close to your weight. Now tossing more junk like wire to be lost in the fraser, dunno how that weighs on people's minds. But last time I pulled up a bar rig with 120lb wire and a 20oz weight I made 4 of those wire leader/weight connector things. I usually pull in 4-5 weights for every 1 I lose.
When snagged (its easy to tell, with braided line a snag WILL NOT move) I wrap a towel around my hand, wrap the line around and walk back slowly. Yanking fast and hard will usually break your line, even at 50#. And reefing on your rod to get rid of a snag usually makes the line not only damage the gears in a high gear ratio reel, but it digs the line into the spool thus causing birds nests next cast.
I also find that with mono, it is almost a must to use the high sticking technique to feel the bounce, and is difficult to distinguish between a fish and a snag/rock.
With braid I point my rod at my line after reeling in slack to 12oclock, so the line barely touches my guides. This allows you to "feel" the rocks. (and eventually help distinguish what a fish is)
So anglers, high or low stick bouncing?
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excellent fish_4_life! I'd have to agree since you're usually casting to the faster water with the heavier betties, thus high sticking would keep more line out of the water, creating less drag so you could feel more bottom. With a lighter betty, you're usually casting to areas with less flow thus low sticking would allow the drag caused by your line to help the betty across the bottom!
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high sticking ::).....LOL = find you lose alot of fish because you can't set the hook.
Fireline / Tuff xp = going to the darkside....if you can't feel them with mono you haven't honed the art. :P
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Love my Tuff XP 30 lb. test.
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Low stick with Maxima Ultra Green. I love watching the guys on the bars that can't tell if it's a fish or not aND swing like Sammy Sosa. I always yell "SWING AND A MISS. MANY MORE LIKE THAT AND HE'S GOIN' TO THE MINORS". ;D
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does walmart sell tuff line?
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does walmart sell tuff line?
Yup - I've seen it there.
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So does Army & Navy Langley. Xp pro is good stuff for me . Gave some to a friend and he pulled a car tire out of the fraser with it . And you don't loose your gear. Worst case you straighten your hook. 2yrs running it and no problems . Down on the Fraser west of the Alex Fraser bridge.
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thanks fellas - this darn internet is too useful in info sometimes - seems like Power Pro line is quite good too - do they have local sellers as well?
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Used to use what you got (20lb. Maxima, or sometimes 17lb.) and have switched to PowerPro.
Since it's a no-stretch line, it's not as effectively "strong" as the Maxima (which tends to be undertested, and has a nice forgiving stretch to it.) So don't use 20lb. no-stretch line and expect the same results...instead jump up to 30lb. or so.
An 80lb. no-stretch line can be a bit*h when you get your line stuck on the bottom of the river and have to break it off....the stuff cuts into your hands etc. so much that at that super high of a breaking strength you might have problems actually breaking it off.
I LOVE the feel of my weight using the no-stretch line.....much more feedback on what's going on down there!
You might lose a few more fish, however, since Maxima's stretch is nicely foregiving when playing fish.
Years ago I tried a no-stretch line on the DOWNRIGGER, and it didn't stay in the clip very well at all.
I've heard from a friend that clinch knots don't work well on these no-stretch lines....I use a knot-tying tool and tie what amounts to a 4-wrap snell knot around the line after I run it through the swivel.
You'll probably LIKE it 20% better, or HATE it 100% worse than Maxima...Maxima is the safe choice, since no-stretch lines are either love-em-or-hate-em to many people. Not a good OVERALL line to use in every situation, whereas the Maxima is certainly the best OVERALL line to use.
Maxima "PERFEXION" is probably way too limp to use on a bait-casting reel....use either their "ULTRAGREEN" or the "CHAMELEON"