Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on May 24, 2014, 01:54:04 PM
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http://www.ubcic.bc.ca/News_Releases/UBCICNews05231401.html#axzz32ZYTTEJm
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"we have witnessed the devastating impact fish farms have on wild"
And where did this happen Chris?
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Looking forward to your reply Chris.... You should consider writing for Almo with a topic title like that ;)
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Looking forward to your reply Chris.... You should consider writing for Almo with a topic title like that ;)
Thanks, your friend above never pays any attention to what we try to explain to him, the tide is ebbing on the FF's.
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Thanks, your friend above never pays any attention to what we try to explain to him, the tide is ebbing on the FF's.
That is the reply I expected. :) Nice dodge Chris. At least try to back up what you are trying to sell. :)
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That is the reply I expected. :) Nice dodge Chris. At least try to back up what you are trying to sell. :)
We have been on so many posts since this topic first appeared, well before you entered the scene. ;D ;D
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We have been on so many posts since this topic first appeared, well before you entered the scene. ;D ;D
But you have always avoided answering direct questions...
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DFO heads with broom sweeping Cohen recommendation paper under the rug.
Something smells " fishy ".
Get Batman & Robin ,Perry Mason , Robo Cop & Captain Kirk on this one.
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But you have always avoided answering direct questions...
No matter what we say it is picked apart by the PAPG so we just put our side of the story down and it is looking good for us every passing day. ;D ;D ;D
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From Alex.
Here is what we have been waiting for! This is very significant. An alliance of 80 First Nations that are not going to let salmon farms destroy wild salmon salmon! Finally a powerful body putting wild salmon first. Let the Union of BC Indian Chiefs know that we stand with them: http://www.ubcic.bc.ca/contact/#axzz32dyixtFB
"We have witnessed the devastating impact fish farms have on wild salmon and this is simply unacceptable.” Chief Chamberlin continued, “The First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance, a coalition of approximately 80 First Nations have been turning their collective attention and expertise to the protection of wild salmon and we call on the Harper Government to immediately respond and fully implement Cohen’s recommendations. DFO does not have the best interests of the health and sustainability of wild salmon as a priority in their policies. This is clear as they continue to disregard Cohen’s recommendations and continue on with the promotion and expansion of the aquaculture industry.”
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So just how is salmon farming killing wild salmon? That should not be such a hard question Chris.
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The question can be answered by reading any number of studies conducted around the world that show the impact that salmon farming in open net pens has had on wild salmon, but I suspect you know that. Your choice to ignore the main point of the article Chris posted and harp on that question is clearly meant to skirt the really question. why hasn't the Harper Government acted on any of the recommendation if this commission on which it spent tens of millions of tax payer dollars? This was just one expensive PR maneuver to present the illusion that this government has any desire to act in good faith on its mandate to protect of national resources and national heritage. The aquaculture industry is in direct competition with wild salmon (the fewer wild salmon in the oceans, the higher their price will be and greater demand there will be for farm fish). This puts DFO's responsibility to manage wild salmon AND to promote and expand aquaculture in A direct conflict of interest. So why don't you ask THAT question Bob? Because that question cannot be answered by a simple search of science journals, can only be answered by a Prime Minister who acts every bit the radical nut we knew him to be.
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Well then it should be easy to post one of those studies and awnser my question for you and Chris insted of dodging it. This is one of the reasons I no longer support the myths of Doc Morton nor am I one of her Loyal Listeners. Looks to me like it is Mortons tide that is going out, not salmon farming. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/12/activist-alexandra-morton-lies-on-national-tv/
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The question can be answered by reading any number of studies conducted around the world that show the impact that salmon farming in open net pens has had on wild salmon, but I suspect you know that. Your choice to ignore the main point of the article Chris posted and harp on that question is clearly meant to skirt the really question. why hasn't the Harper Government acted on any of the recommendation if this commission on which it spent tens of millions of tax payer dollars? This was just one expensive PR maneuver to present the illusion that this government has any desire to act in good faith on its mandate to protect of national resources and national heritage. The aquaculture industry is in direct competition with wild salmon (the fewer wild salmon in the oceans, the higher their price will be and greater demand there will be for farm fish). This puts DFO's responsibility to manage wild salmon AND to promote and expand aquaculture in A direct conflict of interest. So why don't you ask THAT question Bob? Because that question cannot be answered by a simple search of science journals, can only be answered by a Prime Minister who acts every bit the radical nut we knew him to be.
The Harper government's response to the Cohen report is an entirely different and unrelated subject that everyone who either voted for Harper or didn't vote needs to be asking themselves about, but contrary to those who attempt to conflate the two subjects, it has nothing to do with salmon farms. On the other hand, Bob's question goes directly to the heart of the point raised by the press release . There is an explicit but unsubstantiated assumption in it that the root cause of the problem Cohen examined is fish farming.
It is a primary rule of logic that conclusions are only as good as the premises on which they are based and Bob is, quite rightfully, asking that the assumption, the premise on which the conclusion is based, be substantiated in order to validate the conclusion. Studies of situations in other parts of the world are not sufficient to generalize specific conclusions about our specific situation; studies of our specific situation are required to accomplish that and it is quite reasonable to ask that they be produced in order to support the claims made about our specific situation.
If Bob made an error, it was in expecting an answer. It is far easier to spend your efforts crying wolf than it is to actually demonstrate there is a wolf about; however, the downside to this approach was demonstrated by Aesop many centuries ago and is well illustrated by the disinterest in the subject that is the consequence of the repeated cries in this forum of "wolf".
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Not "wolf " but "dirty fish" that wouldn't survive in the net pen without a truckload of chemicals. Get your facts straight before you bawb a post.
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Well an election is coming so perhaps the Conservatives will try and make an effort to win over the popular vote and actually follow through on something positive in the near future in hopes to remain a majority and avoid an epic loss of which i am hoping for.
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The Harper government's response to the Cohen report is an entirely different and unrelated subject that everyone who either voted for Harper or didn't vote needs to be asking themselves about, but contrary to those who attempt to conflate the two subjects, it has nothing to do with salmon farms. On the other hand, Bob's question goes directly to the heart of the point raised by the press release . There is an explicit but unsubstantiated assumption in it that the root cause of the problem Cohen examined is fish farming.
It is a primary rule of logic that conclusions are only as good as the premises on which they are based and Bob is, quite rightfully, asking that the assumption, the premise on which the conclusion is based, be substantiated in order to validate the conclusion. Studies of situations in other parts of the world are not sufficient to generalize specific conclusions about our specific situation; studies of our specific situation are required to accomplish that and it is quite reasonable to ask that they be produced in order to support the claims made about our specific situation.
If Bob made an error, it was in expecting an answer. It is far easier to spend your efforts crying wolf than it is to actually demonstrate there is a wolf about; however, the downside to this approach was demonstrated by Aesop many centuries ago and is well illustrated by the disinterest in the subject that is the consequence of the repeated cries in this forum of "wolf".
I must say, I sure am happy I no longer belong to Doc Morton's parrot club.
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I must say, I sure am happy I no longer belong to Doc Morton's parrot club.
You may return one day from where you once were. ;D ;D
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You may return one day from where you once were. ;D ;D
I doubt that Chris. I prefer to be able to awnser questions directed at me rather than dodge them. That is why the tide is going out on Morton. :)
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http://www.bloomberg.com/video/why-you-ll-never-want-to-eat-farm-raised-salmon-RDELaRwnSTOgFn_ircrufA.html
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Good thing wild is only 2 percent or we would not have our sport fishing pleasure. :)
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Good thing wild is only 2 percent or we would not have our sport fishing pleasure. :)
2% world wide figure.
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Well an election is coming so perhaps the Conservatives will try and make an effort to win over the popular vote and actually follow through on something positive in the near future in hopes to remain a majority and avoid an epic loss of which i am hoping for.
What makes you think they'll follow through on their promises this time ?
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http://www.bloomberg.com/video/looking-for-an-investment-idea-try-farmed-salmon-vZ_95VV7RfuCP9FhA2mZWQ.html
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Well an election is coming so perhaps the Conservatives will try and make an effort to win over the popular vote and actually follow through on something positive in the near future in hopes to remain a majority and avoid an epic loss of which i am hoping for.
The Cons know they can never get the popular vote so they use a different strategy. They try to cultivate interest groups like new immigrants, supporters of Israel, Canadians of Ukrainian origins, gun owners, tough on crime types, business people, old, frightened people who see their safe, secure world disappearing and many others.
At the same time, they work to discourage younger voters from voting by the constant negative attacks, the robocall scams, rewriting the elections act, flagrantly disregarding campaign laws, muzzling MPs and civil servants and all those who are supposed to audit government.
They run massive PR and marketing campaigns with both public money and the money they raise through their constant begging fundraising amongst those who have admitted to supporting them and sadly those campaigns, based on well developed marketing science, are effective.
It is a sad fact that the Harper government has as it's primary intent the propagation of Harper's grip on power and it is not done with the intent of improving the lot of Canadians or stewarding the resources of our country but instead to impose Harper's values on the country and it's citizens.
Harper will dole out goodies to the select groups he is targeting in the ridings where he needs the boost and the rest of us can go pound sand. He's been re-elected twice using this strategy since he first gained power so it's not like we didn't know what we're voting for or against. Unless more than a few people slap themselves upside the head and start using it for something besides holding up their ears, there is a very good chance he will be re-elected again.
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The Cons know they can never get the popular vote so they use a different strategy. They try to cultivate interest groups like new immigrants, supporters of Israel, Canadians of Ukrainian origins, gun owners, tough on crime types, business people, old, frightened people who see their safe, secure world disappearing and many others.
At the same time, they work to discourage younger voters from voting by the constant negative attacks, the robocall scams, rewriting the elections act, flagrantly disregarding campaign laws, muzzling MPs and civil servants and all those who are supposed to audit government.
They run massive PR and marketing campaigns with both public money and the money they raise through their constant begging fundraising amongst those who have admitted to supporting them and sadly those campaigns, based on well developed marketing science, are effective.
It is a sad fact that the Harper government has as it's primary intent the propagation of Harper's grip on power and it is not done with the intent of improving the lot of Canadians or stewarding the resources of our country but instead to impose Harper's values on the country and it's citizens.
Harper will dole out goodies to the select groups he is targeting in the ridings where he needs the boost and the rest of us can go pound sand. He's been re-elected twice using this strategy since he first gained power so it's not like we didn't know what we're voting for or against. Unless more than a few people slap themselves upside the head and start using it for something besides holding up their ears, there is a very good chance he will be re-elected again.
Good post and they don't try to get the vote of those that care about of our fishery that is for sure and it is not just those against the FF's either, habitat preservation etc. thrown in the trash bin. What party in waiting will restore the Department of Fisheries and Oceans budget to what it should be?
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The Cons know they can never get the popular vote so they use a different strategy. They try to cultivate interest groups like new immigrants, supporters of Israel, Canadians of Ukrainian origins, gun owners, tough on crime types, business people, old, frightened people who see their safe, secure world disappearing and many others.
At the same time, they work to discourage younger voters from voting by the constant negative attacks, the robocall scams, rewriting the elections act, flagrantly disregarding campaign laws, muzzling MPs and civil servants and all those who are supposed to audit government.
They run massive PR and marketing campaigns with both public money and the money they raise through their constant begging fundraising amongst those who have admitted to supporting them and sadly those campaigns, based on well developed marketing science, are effective.
It is a sad fact that the Harper government has as it's primary intent the propagation of Harper's grip on power and it is not done with the intent of improving the lot of Canadians or stewarding the resources of our country but instead to impose Harper's values on the country and it's citizens.
Harper will dole out goodies to the select groups he is targeting in the ridings where he needs the boost and the rest of us can go pound sand. He's been re-elected twice using this strategy since he first gained power so it's not like we didn't know what we're voting for or against. Unless more than a few people slap themselves upside the head and start using it for something besides holding up their ears, there is a very good chance he will be re-elected again.
I would vote for you even though you support those ocean pens.
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Thanks banx. There are too many people that get hung up on the minor issues like fish farms and overlook the destruction of what has passed for democracy in Canada.
At this point I don't give a damn about secondary issues like who is going to restore the DFO budget or restore environmental protection. My number one priority is to stop Harper from laying further waste to this country: it's people, it's resources and it's future. Once that is accomplished we can start the difficult task of trying to put the pieces back together though given the scorched earth approach Harper follows and the length of time he has been been able to follow it, that will be a difficult job.
There have been structural changes that will make restoration very difficult and what with the short memories and lack of interest historically shown by voters, any party will face obstacles put in place by those fickle voters who want to both have their cake and to eat it too. There is a cost to the environmental protections and social systems and all those other things we say we want that must be paid and we need to understand that it is up to us to pay it if we really do want those things. We have to acknowledge that taxes aren't a bad thing, nor are the agencies of government that administer the programs.
We have to stop looking at our personal benefit and start looking at the common benefit. We are strongest as a society and weakest as individuals; we have to stop the divisive battles caused by putting own self-interest first that Harper, for his own purposes, promotes as the highest good and get back to thinking and working as a unified group with a common purpose.
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The problem with modern politics lies in promotion.
The party that sells itself out the most gains the most in "donations" to their party.
In turn, that allows the party to promote itself in advertising and news.
I believe that political party donations should be done away with.
The government should provide the same amount of advertising funding to each party.
You have to believe that these donations are repaid in some form of concession from the government.
You see it all the time - the biggest party donors are given grants or some other advantage.
After that, if we can only get the media to be neutral, we'd have a chance for a fair election.
I laugh every time the commercial by the talking head for Global comes on saying how fair they are...
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We used to provide a per-vote subsidy to the political parties that hit a certain threshold of votes thus ensuring that every party that had established themselves as legitimate had some support for research and infrastructure but Harper blew that off some seven or eight years back.
Because of the nature of his donor base, the corporate sector, the business class and the generally well-to-do who have money for political donations and self-interest to advance, it was far less important to him than the other parties who represented the less well-to-do and the environmentally conscious and who had greater difficulty raising money. He saw an opportunity to deprive them of funding that wouldn't cost him much and pushed it through. Less funding for them means fewer obstacles for him and a much less informed electorate, key to his continuing electoral success in the face of the real consequences of the policies he pursues.
That's only one small element of the structural changes that need reversing.
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The Cons know they can never get the popular vote so they use a different strategy. They try to cultivate interest groups like new immigrants, supporters of Israel, Canadians of Ukrainian origins, gun owners, tough on crime types, business people, old, frightened people who see their safe, secure world disappearing and many others.
At the same time, they work to discourage younger voters from voting by the constant negative attacks, the robocall scams, rewriting the elections act, flagrantly disregarding campaign laws, muzzling MPs and civil servants and all those who are supposed to audit government.
They run massive PR and marketing campaigns with both public money and the money they raise through their constant begging fundraising amongst those who have admitted to supporting them and sadly those campaigns, based on well developed marketing science, are effective.
It is a sad fact that the Harper government has as it's primary intent the propagation of Harper's grip on power and it is not done with the intent of improving the lot of Canadians or stewarding the resources of our country but instead to impose Harper's values on the country and it's citizens.
Harper will dole out goodies to the select groups he is targeting in the ridings where he needs the boost and the rest of us can go pound sand. He's been re-elected twice using this strategy since he first gained power so it's not like we didn't know what we're voting for or against. Unless more than a few people slap themselves upside the head and start using it for something besides holding up their ears, there is a very good chance he will be re-elected again.
Good post, bang on!