Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suther on November 23, 2013, 05:42:46 PM
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So the name basically says it all. I only own spinning reels as of right now(what I grew up using, haven't invested in anything else yet), and happen to have a used, older pin rod kicking around(at least I think its a pin rod? no trigger grip, tiny guides. lots of cork above the reel seat.)
Now, I know spinning rods have bigger guides that stick out farther from the pole... Is there anything else different about it? Can someone explain the difference in guides?
This rod is 10' long end to end, and really noodley. My idea was to replace the bottom two guides, (it needs some TLC...) and use it to float fish with a spinning reel. Primary purpose would be float fishing in lakes, but I wouldn't mind trying to drift a float with it too. Would even try tossing metal with it most likely...(Rodney uses a custom 9' long, 4wt fly rod for float fishing lakes, thats where I got the idea of a long rod w/spinning outfit.)
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Any pictures
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Any pictures
Nope. I can take one in a bit. phone is dead, so it has to charge a bit first...
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This rod is 10' long end to end, and really noodley. Would even try tossing metal with it most likely...(Rodney uses a custom 9' long, 4wt fly rod for float fishing lakes, thats where I got the idea of a long rod w/spinning outfit.)
I prefer using a fast action rod for tossing metals.
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This is the rod.
(http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/mattsutherland000/20131123_191016.jpg) (http://s839.photobucket.com/user/mattsutherland000/media/20131123_191016.jpg.html)
(http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/mattsutherland000/28497aca-8761-4eb3-a3d6-4173a2fa8fd2.jpg) (http://s839.photobucket.com/user/mattsutherland000/media/28497aca-8761-4eb3-a3d6-4173a2fa8fd2.jpg.html)
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looks more like an old trolling rod.
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looks more like an old trolling rod.
I thought trolling rods are typically on the stiffer side?
What would make you think a trolling rod rather than CP?
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There is a difference between true spinning rods and rods designed for float fishing, either for center-pin or level-wind reels. Long, "noodley" rods are meant for tossing light lures which are too light to be cast with either center-pin or level-wind reels. They are meant for lighter lines. Long handles are more efficient on long rods.
Without testing the rod in question it is impossible to give a definitive answer.
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I thought trolling rods are typically on the stiffer side?
What would make you think a trolling rod rather than CP?
those guides are usually on trolling rods and not all of them are stiff meat sticks.
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What would make you think a trolling rod rather than CP?
Those guides are typically found on trolling rods.
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If its a pretty soft blank it was likely made as a strip mooching rod.
To make that into a spinner is possible but you have a fair amount of work ahead of you, its not as simple as changing out the stripping guides and your done if you want to do it right.
The rest of the guides will also need to be changed out as they dont lift the line far enough from the blank and they also look like they are spaced to far apart for a spinner.
I have 2 of the old mooching/pin blanks (lammiglass and fenglass 2 power) that I twisted up into spinners years ago for bar fishing the lower fraser, I wanted something really light that would show/magnify all the nibbles. They work great for that application but their soft action makes them poor casters and because they are FG they are actually pretty heavy, for my application both those attributes are not particularly important as I dont generally need to cast far and the rod sits in a rod holder but no way I would want to carry the suckers all day casting.
Can you clamp a reel on, thread it up and use it...........yes
Will it be an effective casting rod.........not even with a lot of work IMO
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If its a pretty soft blank it was likely made as a strip mooching rod.
To make that into a spinner is possible but you have a fair amount of work ahead of you, its not as simple as changing out the stripping guides and your done if you want to do it right.
The rest of the guides will also need to be changed out as they dont lift the line far enough from the blank and they also look like they are spaced to far apart for a spinner.
They work great for that application but their soft action makes them poor casters
Can you clamp a reel on, thread it up and use it...........yes
Will it be an effective casting rod.........not even with a lot of work IMO
So to "do it right" I should replace all the guides, not just the bottom two or three? What would be the major downside to using some of the guides that are on it? What does lifting the line off the blank accomplish?
There is 9 guides on this rod, which is just over 9' long from reel seat to tip. My other rod that is 7' long from reel to tip has 7 guides on it...
As I said, Rodney uses a custom 9ft, 4peice 4wt fly rod blank built into a spinning rod for tossing floats in lakes... How dissimilar is that compared to what I have?
I thought float rods are usually slow action? So this inhibits casting distance?
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Let's say I wanted to use the rod as is for bar fishing. Would a mooching reel be best for that?
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Many times in the past I've successfully used a spinning reel on a single handed fly rod with no problems at all. I would much rather fly fish than anything else, but some situations are just not practical. And, very often I only want to carry one rod when hiking a river or into a remote, Alpine lake. In those situations I'll bring an extra spinning reel with me just in case I need it. It has saved the day many times.
For the rod in Question, don't change it at all. The spinning reel will still work on it very nicely. Will it be as good as a new graphite rod designed for the purpose? The answer is obviously no, BUT! Thousands of salmon and steelhead were caught on glass rods before graphite was introduced.
The ONLY thing I might do is remove the first guide and replace it with a slightly larger, spinning guide. The next guide up is optional and won't affect casting much. The guides on the upper section are okay.
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The taller guides used on spinning rods stop the line from slapping the blank when casting since the line spins off the spool thru the guides requiring a greater distance from the blank vs a conventional reel that the line comes off at a fixed point.
You may only have to change out the first few gathering guides and the others may be high enough but until you try no way to tell.
First look I counted 8 and you stated the rod was a 10' so that seemed pretty sparse for spacing, until you do a static load and space them out you wont know if the 9 you have is enough, likely it will work.
Pretty sure any guides you buy today wont look anything like the existing ones, but that may not be an issue to you.
Until you know what blank you have there is no way anyone can tell you from the pic you posted how that rod will compare to another, it could be a slow 2 power or a fast 5 power.
Float rods can have a slow action if they are being used with a C/P or a fast action with levelwind really no firm rules and specific waters sometimes require unusual combinations.
Fly rods are made with powerful fast tip sections to hurl the weight of a flyline, however a 4wt rod is a pretty light rod so for his application it may work great.
For bar fishing, it will be tough to cast with a mooching reel but I have done it.
You can carefully strip out a bunch of line having it spread out on the beach and lob it out, not pretty but it works in a pinch as you usually dont need to cast far.
You wouldnt need to change anything on the rod that way
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The taller guides used on spinning rods stop the line from slapping the blank when casting since the line spins off the spool thru the guides requiring a greater distance from the blank vs a conventional reel that the line comes off at a fixed point.
You may only have to change out the first few gathering guides and the others may be high enough but until you try no way to tell.
First look I counted 8 and you stated the rod was a 10' so that seemed pretty sparse for spacing, until you do a static load and space them out you wont know if the 9 you have is enough, likely it will work.
Pretty sure any guides you buy today wont look anything like the existing ones, but that may not be an issue to you.
Until you know what blank you have there is no way anyone can tell you from the pic you posted how that rod will compare to another, it could be a slow 2 power or a fast 5 power.
Float rods can have a slow action if they are being used with a C/P or a fast action with levelwind really no firm rules and specific waters sometimes require unusual combinations.
Fly rods are made with powerful fast tip sections to hurl the weight of a flyline, however a 4wt rod is a pretty light rod so for his application it may work great.
For bar fishing, it will be tough to cast with a mooching reel but I have done it.
You can carefully strip out a bunch of line having it spread out on the beach and lob it out, not pretty but it works in a pinch as you usually dont need to cast far.
You wouldnt need to change anything on the rod that way
I figured the line would hit the blank right now...that's why I figured I need to replace at least 1 or 2 guides.
How do I do a static load test to determine spacing?
I don't really care about my guides not matching. I would eventually replace them all if I like how the rod feels.
Why do c/p's use such soft rods?
I could strip a bunch of line off a spinning reel and accomplish the same result as you suggest with a mooching reel, so I don't think I will be searching for a cheap one.
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just buy a new rod... not worth all the time and effort you're putting into that old thing
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Played around with it for a few minutes today, tossed a 1/4oz croc at the park a few times to see how far she casts. Is similar to the 6' spinning rod I've been using, and thats with mediocre casts in fading light. Im sure with a good cast it'll cast farther than the 6' rod ever did.
I noticed the bottom guide has a big gouge in it. Its the thickness of fishing line, so I can only imagine its from years of wear. The 10lb test on the reel I was using was getting chewed up pretty bad by it... SO that guide needs replacing before this rod ever sees real use.
Im interested in rod building, so screwing around with fixing this one up will be good practice. Then I can look at building my own custom 4wt like Rods got... Guides are dirt cheap online, I can get the two I need for like $6 or less, a whole new set for just over $20... Can you get supplies anywhere near this cheap in-store somewhere? Or do I just need to bite the bullet and pay for shipping too?
Buying a new rod that is this long and this soft for any sort of reasonable price is not going to happen. I'll just have to screw around with what I've got and see how it goes long term.
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Better yet, buy an entry level centre pin. You will never drift fish with a spinning reel again
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Played around with it for a few minutes today, tossed a 1/4oz croc at the park a few times to see how far she casts. Is similar to the 6' spinning rod I've been using, and thats with mediocre casts in fading light. Im sure with a good cast it'll cast farther than the 6' rod ever did.
I noticed the bottom guide has a big gouge in it. Its the thickness of fishing line, so I can only imagine its from years of wear. The 10lb test on the reel I was using was getting chewed up pretty bad by it... SO that guide needs replacing before this rod ever sees real use.
Im interested in rod building, so screwing around with fixing this one up will be good practice. Then I can look at building my own custom 4wt like Rods got... Guides are dirt cheap online, I can get the two I need for like $6 or less, a whole new set for just over $20... Can you get supplies anywhere near this cheap in-store somewhere? Or do I just need to bite the bullet and pay for shipping too?
Buying a new rod that is this long and this soft for any sort of reasonable price is not going to happen. I'll just have to screw around with what I've got and see how it goes long term.
Working on this old rod is a great way to practice, just understand what you need before you start and dont spend more than the rods worth.
You need the guides (IMO a complete set) thread and rod finish plus a way to turn the rod until the finish dries.
Contact Mark out at Valley rods if your in the valley area and he will hook you up with all the parts, he's very reasonable and knowledgeable.