Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: fishtruck on October 23, 2013, 04:54:50 PM
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You know some days,you won't lose one fish and others, well, you just can't keep them on the hook. They just keep spitting it out. Any ideas why that's the case. A friend told me that he had 9 fish on today and was unable to land even one. All unhooked themselves somehow.
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A good sickle hook like maruto's ( not matzuo) and a softer rod and its harder to lose fish I find.
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problem with soft rods is you don't have the beef to get solid hook sets right of the bat, this is especially apparent if your doing long drifts. A sickle hook may help a bit but I think its just luck of the draw sometimes. last trip my dad couldn't keep one on while I landed almost every fish I solidly hooked, go figure ???
smaller hooks stay put better also. biggest I use is a size 1 for float fishing, 2/0 for BBing
side pressure is also your friend to keep proper leverage on the fish, holding your rod 90 degrees to the fish is a good way to lose them more often
as you can see there is many many many things you can blame but honestly some fish are just meant to get away ;)
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Not trying to start a bashing thread but are the fish actually hooked in the mouth? Nine fish is a lot to lose without landing one I think. I like to play the fish I hook with the rod to the side, (parallel to the river) not straight up in the air like most people do. My landing ratio is hovering around 98% for fish hooked to landed. The current of the water helps me with the battle rather helping the fish as it tries to make a 'U' in the line, this pulls the fish closer to shore. This also causes the one gill plate to not fully open and starves the fish of oxygen a bit which wears the fish out faster.
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It happens, and I think it's the luck of the draw. Just over a week ago, I had 8 coho on and fighting (all in the mouth, fishing with roe), only to lose all at the beach. Next outing, I landed 6 coho on 6 consecutive casts. I find that just after first light when the bite is on, I get more solid hook-ups. However, later in the morning I found that fish were taking much more "lightly" and I ended up losing more fish later in the morning. Just my observations.
I normally use size 4 gamis, but I've been experimenting with owner hooks. Honestly, I can't really tell the difference between the two. Just go with what you're confident with using would be my suggestion... ;)
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coho have higher chance to spit hook due to rolling. Most mistake people just make is just horsing an energetic fish in, i've seen them just roll and pop right off at the beach. Just take your time if its a hatchery, no need to go crazy because the fish will always give up and start laying on its back or start swinging towards the beach. I always let big fish swim it's way towards the shore. Also hookset is real important, when a fish is set in a drift in the 11'o clock to 2 o'clock position, i will never lose that fish (well 99% ::)). Where as if i set the hook further downstream, its a gamble. It is much easier for the fish to pop off because in my opinion, you lose a lot of pressure on the fish waiting for someone to reel in or trying to walk down to get it more closer to the fish.
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FFM have you noticed a difference is sizes? What I mean is I found that a #2 gammi is the same size as #4 owner. I usually use #2 gammis for coho and LML steelhead. A #1 gammi actually jumps up a gauge thickness for the hook, which then could potentially cause more resistance when penetrating cartalige in the mouth.
As for soft rods and bad hook sets I have never found that to be a problem (I use a 3113LB) although I always touch up my hooks with a file and they are sticky sharp. Usually the fish taking the bait is enough to have the hook stick in the first bit of tissue, the hook set seals the deal after that.
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I didn't ask him whether he hooked them all in the mouth, maybe I should have. He's just started fishing last year, and knows not to snag fish. He was using jigs in a pool where flow is almost nonexistent. He was at a spot where he was just twitching a jig straight up and down( I have been to that spot to see him fish like that). I didn't know that if you put side pressure on a fish, it would produce those results mentioned in the two earlier post. You learn something new everyday. I had been told to always to keep my rod tip up. I agree about using smaller hooks(I find that with smaller hooks, there's no space between the fish and hook for the hook to move), but the jigs that he bought came with I think 1/0 hooks?.
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About two weeks ago, in the same pool I was landing cohos with #4 hook on # 2 French blades. When I was releasing wide ones I did notice how tight the hooks were buried
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FFM have you noticed a difference is sizes? What I mean is I found that a #2 gammi is the same size as #4 owner. I usually use #2 gammis for coho and LML steelhead. A #1 gammi actually jumps up a gauge thickness for the hook, which then could potentially cause more resistance when penetrating cartalige in the mouth.
As for soft rods and bad hook sets I have never found that to be a problem (I use a 3113LB) although I always touch up my hooks with a file and they are sticky sharp. Usually the fish taking the bait is enough to have the hook stick in the first bit of tissue, the hook set seals the deal after that.
When I look at the size 4 owner (SSW) vs. size 4 gami (Octopus), they look equal in size, except the owner wire is thicker. They also have a slightly different hook shape/bend.
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Honestly, some days it's just not in the books....
A couple trips ago I went 4 for 11, doing what I always do, the same hooks. It was my worst day for landing fish all year going back to winter steelhead, and dropped my landing ratio on the year considerably.
Today I went 8 for 9. Same hooks, same hook set, same way of fighting. I think it also has a lot to do with how spunky the fish are. Also has to do with how spooky they are, resulting in them either just nipping at your gear or hammering it. Lots of variables. I find for coho I sit at around 70% landed on a typical year.
Sticky sharp hooks, a good feel, fighting with side pressure, and not horsing them much all help a lot. I tend to fight fish by hand on spinning reels and fly rods, just pretty much loosen the drag off completely and use my finger on the spool to control runs, etc. I find this to be more reliable than the drag in most cases and have lost less fish in the past 2 years of doing it.
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Today I watched two anglers losing 6 of the 8 coho salmon they hooked. The main problem was poor drag on the cheap spinning reels they were using, but the improper drag setting and not being able to keep the line tight enough did not help the situation either.
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Micro barbs help, but unfortunately they are not legal. The Fisheries department WANTS us to lose more fish. Long shank hooks lose more fish. Turned up eyed hooks lose more fish unless the leader is attached to the shank of the hook and not the eye. Long point hooks land more fish as do circle hooks if they can be used properly. The hook shape DOES matter.
As another point, but not one for shore fishermen. When you fish directly downstream from an anchored boat then far more fish will be lost shortly after the strike. It has to do with where the point enters flesh. Hooked in the corner of the mouth is best and that is why flossed fish are not lost as often. I've got lots of records and data to back up what I say.
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not so much about them wanting us to loose more fish, more about barbs causing unnecessary damage to wild/released fish.
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Was out in the boat 2 weeks ago and got one of many to the boat.
Same set-up this week and I boated most of the fish that hit.
Sometimes fish will have short takes and sometimes they will inhale it.
Coho are notorious for being soft biters at times.
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The way I see it, it's part of the game. I have days with close to 100% landing ratio; others when landing ratio drops to close to zero. When a fish spits my hook, I tip my hat and say: "Well done, fish. You win this one." :)
Unless of course it is the only hatchery coho of the day and a perfect chromer, too.
In that case I will let out a couple of select 4-letter words. :o
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you mean like "poop, darn, frig......." ?? 8)
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you mean like "poop, darn, frig......." ?? 8)
Isn't that a US Rock group? ;)
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Last year, I couldn't keep a fish on if my life depended on it, this year, landing success is through the roof. Maybe the fishing gods have deemed me worthy once again.
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This year sucks for me with coho...12 lost....only one to hand which was wild of course.
Lost 3 on the flyrod this year that made spectacular leaps and runs before popping off. One hit a blue rolled muddler and jumped 3 times right in front of me with the hook clearly in its mouth then it made a couple big runs combined with coho rolls...after its last roll it felt totally different and as I got it closer it was now hooked in the side....so I let it go...I was sure it was hooked in the yap to begin with...fly was sz 8 maybe too small.
BN
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bluenoser - having coho roll, spit the hook and then get re-hooked is also par for the course. I have had 2 already do that to me this year. they were both clearly in the mouth when I had them close to shore, they took a final run and arial display causing them to get free only side hook themselves with all the rolling >:( both were clipped ones too !!
Coho year after year are usually the pain in my a** fish with how many you hook then promptly lose or the fact I catch a lot more unclipped to clipped ones
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Sharp hooks are the single most important factor in effectively hooking any species of fish. I also think that larger hooks, to an extent are also more effective. That's not to say we should all use the largest hook possible. It's also nice to see people recognizing the effectiveness of side pressure. Over 20 years ago when I started talking about holding your rod to the side to effect the fish's balance and tire them out quicker people laughed at me. However side pressure becomes less effective as the length of line gets longer. As it gets out past even 50 feet it might be better to raise the rod to keep the line clear of obstructions. In many situations, such as heavy weed growth it is best to keep the rod high most of the time. Dropping the rod a bit when a fish jumps is also a sound idea in my opinion.
FWIW last week I hooked 5 coho and landed 5 one day. The day before I hooked 6 and landed just 1. Most of the time if a fish is going to be lost it will toss the hook within the first minute or even the first few seconds. Hook sets that are straight downstream are a bitch. Try to set to your downstream side and not straight overhead.
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Over 20 years ago when I started talking about holding your rod to the side to effect the fish's balance and tire them out quicker people laughed at me.
They still do. Not long ago, I hooked into a nice chrome spring and played it perfectly. At one point, I was applying side pressure with the tip of the rod IN the water (it was a jumper and I didn't want to give it any slack). I could hear people chuckling about my 'style'. I guess they shut up when I landed the beauty on my clear water coho setup (only 8 pound test leader).
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Let them laugh. Side pressure is your friend when playing any type of fish. The most common time to lose coho is when they jump or start flipping around on the surface. When that happens I literally submerge the top half of my rod into the water to ‘force’ the fish back down into the water. I don’t care how it looks, it works pretty well in my experience. What not to do IMHO is to hold the rod high and encourage the fish to keep dancing on the surface.
Having said that, I probably lose 20% of hooked fish in literally the first 5 or 10 seconds, I presume because of a poor hook set, or the hook only pierced the skin or somewhere else soft. Once past that ‘danger zone’ I am fortunate enough to lose very few fish.