Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: brandooner on September 30, 2013, 08:10:21 PM
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Anyone ever see one of these gremlins. Couldnt get a better picture of him he was squirmin too much.
(http://i.imgur.com/PT8Bux8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gHmIYjn.jpg)
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Not a Jack, just an extremely small male as pinks do not Jack. I have ran into a couple of them over the years that were in the 11 - 14 inch range. Usually see them on years where the run is quite large. Just another neat example of biodiversity. Who knows, maybe that small size allows them to access habitat that other bigger pinks can not get into due to there size.
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Hmmmm, cool, smallest one ive ever seen by far!
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Pinks only live for 2 years, so they can't come spawn a year early like the other species that live 3+ years.
Maybe this guy just didn't have a big enough appetite when he was out in the ocean. haha
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Yeah, definitely a unique catch. 8)
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Pinks only live for 2 years, so they can't come spawn a year early like the other species that live 3+ years.
Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack. Don't think it has much to do with how long a fish lives. A typical coho will spend 18 months at sea, a jack will only go out for 3 or 4 and come straight back. Personally I'm not sure if pinks jack, but every other species does to my knowledge, although not in the numbers you see with Chinook and coho
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Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack. Don't think it has much to do with how long a fish lives. A typical coho will spend 18 months at sea, a jack will only go out for 3 or 4 and come straight back. Personally I'm not sure if pinks jack, but every other species does to my knowledge, although not in the numbers you see with Chinook and coho
I have never seen a chum jack have you?
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I caught a very small chum a few years back on the Nicomen that I posted about. I think it was the last few days of November and was just too cold and did not take a picture, regret it now.
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I have never seen a chum jack have you?
Neither have I, nor sockeye jacks.
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Anyone ever see one of these gremlins. Couldnt get a better picture of him he was squirmin too much.
(http://i.imgur.com/PT8Bux8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gHmIYjn.jpg)
Consider yourself lucky, I just read that all salmon species have jacks but some are extremely rare. No wonder most of us have never seen them.
So you are the lucky winner today.
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I have never seen a chum jack have you?
You probably have. If you ever caught a 5-7 pound chum (I have caught more than a few), it was probably a jack (3 year fish). Most 4-5 year fish are in the 10-20 pound range. I am not sure why these "jack" chum do not normally get referred to as jacks, but I believe it is because they are almost as common as 4 and 5 year fish in most returns.
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Looks like he is just starting to develop the pan hump too...
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I have never seen a chum jack have you?
Yes I have. Chum on Tenderfoot Creek on the Cheakamus 2+ lbs and one about the same size on the Mamquam River. There there but not often. Three year old chum happen quite frequently
Neither have I, nor sockeye jacks.
Sockeye jacks are quite common on some stocks. Babine sockeye have lots as do several FraserRiver stocks.
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Dad caught a sockeye on the Thompson on a prawn yesterday, I would have given it 3 pounds tops. And my chum was also probably 2 pounds, had its fall dress.
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I wonder if there's a salmon that hasn't returned to a river and just lives in ocean that would be cool catching 7-8 yrs old springs LOL
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Neither have I, nor sockeye jacks.
Yes, I have seen chum jacks, although rare. Only have actually seen 1 in person myself, around 3 pounds.
Sockeye jacks are quite common in lots of runs... I caught 3 in one day this year on an island river around 2-3 pounds.
I wonder if there's a salmon that hasn't returned to a river and just lives in ocean that would be cool catching 7-8 yrs old springs LOL
It is thought that many of the very large world record breaking chinook (among other species) were natural triploids. In this case, they would spend their entire life in the ocean, eating and putting on weight, rather than working towards putting energy into reproduction. These would be the 70+ pnd fish you see. During class, we were told of at least one world record fish (I believe it was an inconnu) that was tested and was indeed a natural triploid, which is why it grew to such a large size. The world record holding rainbow at this point was also a triploid.
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Cool photo! I've never seen a pink "jack" before, but always wondered if they were out there. Thanks for sharing.
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Anyone ever see one of these gremlins. Couldnt get a better picture of him he was squirmin too much.
Nice pic! I have not seen a pink that small and I have landed many. :)
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Maybe it did not want to die that's why it never returned lol they can always have reproduction. In the ocean but wouldn't work
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A pink jack would be obvious as it would be an even year fish.
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It is thought that many of the very large world record breaking chinook (among other species) were natural triploids. In this case, they would spend their entire life in the ocean, eating and putting on weight, rather than working towards putting energy into reproduction. These would be the 70+ pnd fish you see. During class, we were told of at least one world record fish (I believe it was an inconnu) that was tested and was indeed a natural triploid, which is why it grew to such a large size. The world record holding rainbow at this point was also a triploid.
So if you get a monster chinook the bonk it since it would never be able to pass on genes anyway!
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Maybe 4lb chum doe from a couple years ago.
(http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/Pinks/chum_doe.jpg)
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no problem! :D Confused the hell outta me hahaha
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Typhoon that would have to be considered a small chum as jacks are male only.
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Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack.
Not sure about the 2 year thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coho_salmon
"Young coho spend one to two years in their freshwater natal streams"
"Coho salmon live in salt water for one to three years before returning to spawn. Some precocious males, known as "jacks", return as two-year-old spawners. "
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Typhoon that would have to be considered a small chum as jacks are male only.
Lots of people didn't think about why we call Jack not Mary.
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Lots of people didn't think about why we call Jack not Mary.
or Jill??????????????????
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Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack. Don't think it has much to do with how long a fish lives. A typical coho will spend 18 months at sea, a jack will only go out for 3 or 4 and come straight back. Personally I'm not sure if pinks jack, but every other species does to my knowledge, although not in the numbers you see with Chinook and coho
Coho typically live 3-4 years. Not two.
For a pink to jack, it would have to return to the streams after being less than a year old.
Also, because pinks have their 2-year cycle in place, a jack this year would have to be one of the few fish who are part of the even-year runs. If a fish from this years crop jacked, it would be up the river last year.
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it would be up the river last year.
l ;D ;D ;D
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On the island they get a pink run every year... maybe it was just confused and followed the wrong fish up or somthing?
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I have caught Jill and Jack coho in the same day. they taste a lot better than their larger brethren ;D
Ive also caught jack sockeye and 1 tiny chum(jack?) over the years. I like most people have caught loads of Jack Chinook
first jack pink I have seen, maybe that's what those tiny pinks are in the Squamish. I have caught some very small ones 2lbs and under that I just dismissed as small pinks because the pinks there top out around 6-7lbs anyways
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Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack.
Wild coho on the south coast live about 3.5 years from egg emergence to spawning. Jacks loose a years sea growth relative to the full adult fish. On the north coast may live longer - more time in river reaching smolt stage due to shorter growing season.
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Wild coho on the south coast live about 3.5 years from egg emergence to spawning.
Not sure what south coast coho stocks you are referring to here but the ones I am familiar with, ie Vedder, Chehalis, generally spawn in their 3rd year as Everyday stated. Of course many 2 year (jacks) and a few 4 year olds occur but not often.
Female Jenny's or Jill's are very common in Cultus sockeye 3 year olds and often found in Vedder coho 2 year olds.
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8)
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he actually said 2 years but the folks at the hatchery seem to disagree
Chilliwack coho,like most coho stocks, generally follow a 3 year life cycle, illustrated in Figure 1
from pg. 4: http://www3.fvrd.bc.ca/Electoral%20Area%20Services%20Committee/2006/EASC%202006%2001%2010/Item%2010-01%20Understanding%20Coho%20Production.pdf
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triple!
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South Coast coho salmon, as Everyday and Dave have pointed out, live for just over two years. For example, adult fish that are returning this year, hatched out of eggs in spring 2011. From spring 2011 to October 2013, just over two years. It's called a three year cycle as it is counting from brood to brood (2010 broods produce 2013 fish).
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he actually said 2 years but the folks at the hatchery seem to disagree
from pg. 4: http://www3.fvrd.bc.ca/Electoral%20Area%20Services%20Committee/2006/EASC%202006%2001%2010/Item%2010-01%20Understanding%20Coho%20Production.pdf
That document you posted appears to show the hatchery agreeing with him. The alevin hatch in the spring then spend a year in the natal stream until they smolt and head out to sea where they spend 16 to 18 months (1.5 years) before returning to spawn. That would make it just over two years since they hatched. As Rod says it is 3 years brood to brood.
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yes the natural life cycle is 3 years not 2 from eggs to spawning. I don't know where I got the 3.5 years from but for some reason it was stuck in my brain. Eggs are generally fertilized in late fall year, hatch as Alevins a couple months later emerge as fry in the spring and then stay in stream until the following spring as parr. They then migrate to the ocean where they either stay for about 18 months a small % of males 'jack' and return in their second autumn about 2 years after they started life as a fertile egg. The remainder return the following year as 3 year olds. A coho spawned as an egg this year will return in 2016 if it does the full 3 year cycle. This is the established way of describing a fishes life cycle since few fish species brood in a uterus and are born live as mammals do.
In some cases they may spend an extra year in stream or as I have heard but never seen confirmed an extra year at sea and return as large fish well over 15lbs.
A pink salmon spawned as an egg this year will of course return in 2015 or a 2 year cycle. That is a year shorter than coho. Remember the original coment was pinks and coho both live 2 years?
Coho only live just over 2 years as well and they do jack.
Even year cycle pinks in the Fraser are all but unknown and even if pinks do jack the probability of an angler catching one would be astronomical.
As far jills, jennys, coho-kanee and the little 6 inch fully mature males I have caught in an unnamed stream I don't know how old these atypical fish are since they never provided a birth certificate when I asked for one. ;D
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As far jills, jennys, coho-kanee and the little 6 inch fully mature males I have caught in an unnamed stream I don't know how old these atypical fish are since they never provided a birth certificate when I asked for one. ;D
The ages of 3 year old female sockeye from Cultus, Jills or Jennies, are determined by scale and otolith readings.
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All you need to do is learn the complete life history of our five species of Pacific's to understand it is a physical impossibility for a pink to "jack". Any juvenile salmonid returning to its natal stream the same calendar it migrated to the sea cannot feed enough in a few months to reach a size comparable to what is considered a jack. As an example a pink first year ocean fish would only be about 4 inches long. I have seen a lot of small pinks as small as half a kilo. The growth rates just don't add up.
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South Coast coho salmon, as Everyday and Dave have pointed out, live for just over two years. For example, adult fish that are returning this year, hatched out of eggs in spring 2011. From spring 2011 to October 2013, just over two years. It's called a three year cycle as it is counting from brood to brood (2010 broods produce 2013 fish).
So fish hatched in the spring of 2011 spend one year in the river so in the spring 2012 they go out into the salt.
They spend one year and a few months in the ocean and return in the fall of 2013.
Coho jacks spend only 6 months feeding in the salt water which explains why they are so small when they come in.
They grow from fingerling smolt to couple of hundred grams in 6 months.
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The ages of 3 year old female sockeye from Cultus, Jills or Jennies, are determined by scale and otolith readings.
Good to know. Also important to understand that while there is some variability of life cycle for coho, sockeye, chinook and even chum (I believe), Pinks have the same 2 year cycle throughout their range.
Also because a particular fish is notably small or large does not necessarily mean they are of a younger or older age class than most other fish of their species. Other factors like genetics, parasites or disease may be factors.
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Well apparently I wasn't clear enough with my comment? I didn't say they were exactly like pink anywhere as I recall, I just said they roughly had the same amount of time to live? I said coho live just over 2 years, which is true.
Pinks live exactly 2 years, coho live just over 2 years (which is what I originally said). If you want to pick apart my post more, go for it. It really isn't a big deal as far as I'm concerned... The main thing I was trying to get across was simply stating that I'm sure it is possible for a pink to jack, although unlikely (and probably never recorded as far as I know), and that you couldn't base jacking on age. It would be interesting to obtain data from these very tiny pinks to see why they are this small (lack of feed, disease, etc). All fish "evolve" over time, so it is possible that you could eventually see pinks jacking. They have already been recorded spawning successfully in brackish water which is something that was never believed to be possible.
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well there was some bad math in this thread: 1 + 1.5 = 3.5 was my bad. ;D
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Pinks live exactly 2 years, coho live just over 2 years (which is what I originally said). If you want to pick apart my post more, go for it.
Something doesn't add up. For a pink to live exactly two years it would have to birth live young. If a coho lives 2.5 years than a pink is closer to 1.5 years than two. Pinks are called two years just the same as coho is called three because its based from brood to brood not alevin or fry to spawner.
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From hatching to spawning, it's 1.5 years for pink salmon.
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Coho will generally hatch in January or February then emerge from the gravel 4 to 6 weeks later. They spawn and die close to 3 years later in November or December of the year.
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Was at the Norrish Creek hatchery a few weeks back, and low and behold there was a chum Jack swimming around with his bigger siblings. I remembered this thread and took a few pics, granted they are not the best quality as shooting into the water is hard, but it was easy to tell it was a chum, and it was about 12'' long.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/Fishprospector/phonepics2013063_zps20621207.jpg) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Fishprospector/media/phonepics2013063_zps20621207.jpg.html)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/Fishprospector/phonepics2013064_zps84f64ea8.jpg) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Fishprospector/media/phonepics2013064_zps84f64ea8.jpg.html)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/Fishprospector/phonepics2013065_zps715234de.jpg) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Fishprospector/media/phonepics2013065_zps715234de.jpg.html)