Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: clarki on September 08, 2013, 11:26:45 AM

Title: Interesting tide observation
Post by: clarki on September 08, 2013, 11:26:45 AM
This morning, the flood tide peaked in the lower Fraser at 9 AM. At 10 AM, as I was leaving, the tide was definitely ebbing as evidenced by the water levels dropping, yet there was still flotsam floating upstream...

Thinking there might be 2 layers of water, yet I can't wrap my head around why the top layer would still be pushing up river?
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: Rodney on September 08, 2013, 11:29:17 AM
This happens during almost every peak tide when I fish around Queensborough.

Can't really explain it, I failed hydrology back in University.... ;D :-[
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: milo on September 08, 2013, 12:10:13 PM
I'm just speculating here:

There's two layers of water - fresh and salt. As the tide ebbs, salt water is lighter and stays on the surface flowing upstream until the effect of the receding tide and with it the rush of fresh water going downstream fully neutralizes the upstream flow of saltwater.

Feel free to destroy my theory.
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: Rodney on September 08, 2013, 12:14:53 PM
I'm just speculating here:

There's two layers of water - fresh and salt. As the tide ebbs, salt water is lighter and stays on the surface flowing upstream until the effect of the receding tide and with it the rush of fresh water going downstream fully neutralizes the upstream flow of saltwater.

Feel free to destroy my theory.

Actually, saltwater is more dense than freshwater. :)
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: milo on September 08, 2013, 12:38:22 PM
Actually, saltwater is more dense than freshwater. :)

So much for my theory.  :-[
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: clarki on September 08, 2013, 01:50:03 PM
I understand that there is a tidal "plug" of saltwater that pushes up as far as the Port Mann. If I recall, this plug sits below a layer of freshwater.

But I think you might on to something, Milo. I wonder if the intertia of the upriver flowing, top freshwater layer isn't easly overcome. The analogy of stopping a train comes to mind. Perhaps it takes longer, after the tide changes ,for the receeding salt water to began to "drag" the top layer downstream.

Rodney: Although I was fishing in the Queesnsborough area, this is the first time in 6 or 7 pink seasons that I have noticed this. I guess my powers of observation are rivalled only your knowledge of hydrology. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: Jeff_ on September 08, 2013, 01:51:24 PM
I would definitely say there are several layers of water with different densities at any given time in the Fraser due to saltwater intrusion (This  (http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/t00-075) article says up to 16km.) Though I can't really explain the upstream with any certainty, I would also guess inertia has something to do with it. The water might be receding but the "main" body of water that was moving upstream hasn't caught up with the tide. Thats my guess.   :-\
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2013, 02:31:02 PM
So much for my theory.  :-[

your theory is right you just reversed the layers. The lower tongue of salt or brackish water can reach at least to Port Mann at certain times of the year and on certain tides.

Other than that layering or stratifying of water doesn't generally happen in rivers and streams.
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: KingOfEastVan on September 08, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Water will take the path of least resistance and not all channels drain equally, backflow does occur.
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: FreshyPT on September 08, 2013, 08:57:43 PM
Wiki, not the best source but read and probe for more information at the library ... if you have not forgotten where your local library is localed  :P 8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuarine_water_circulation
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: Whopperman on September 09, 2013, 08:26:32 AM
I'm sure the government has something to do with this..

Those bastards!!!!! Now they're breaking the laws of water physics.
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: chronic_topdawg on September 09, 2013, 12:41:01 PM
I'm sure the government has something to do with this..

Those bastards!!!!! Now they're breaking the laws of water physics.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: Ian Forbes on September 09, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
Blame it on the big oil companies and their pipe line.  :D
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: islanddude on September 12, 2013, 08:25:06 AM
This phenomena occurs in the Johnstone Straits also. The middle of the channel will be ebbing but along the shore it will be flooding. Go figure.
Title: Re: Interesting tide observation
Post by: sugartooth on September 13, 2013, 02:30:53 PM
Perhaps the wind is blowing this flotsom upstream??