Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Damien on July 31, 2013, 04:39:34 PM
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Hey there, walk a mile in my shoes for a sec and tell me what you'd do.
I just inherited a nice deep and wide 14" aluminum Thornes. It has a very old, very tired and unsafe 20hp 1960's merc on it that is destined for the scrap heap/sold for parts.
I am debating on what to repower it with. The boat will be used for limited Fraser River duty, lots of use in lakes and maybe the odd jaunt or two around Ambleside, off of Porteau Cove and other similar places for a bit of fishing and crabbing etc. I know the limits of a boat of this size and have access to a larger boat for more involved duties. So it will never be used in 'iffy' conditions or used far offshore.
I am looking at either a new 2009 model unused 15hp Yamaha 2 stroke or a brand new 20hp Merc/Nissan 4 stroke.
The Yammy is 30lbs lighter, but it gives up 5hp and 100cc's. I have a newer 50lb thrust Minnkota as a back up motor, as well as a 5hp 2 stroke Merc to use as a kicker if necessary (probably will sell the 5hp).
If the two motors were basically the same price, and they are both unused, what would YOU do?
8)
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Depends if its on a trailer or not.......that 20 is going to be a bear to lift off and on if your not going to trailer it.
That said if its going to be trailered around all the time I say go with the 4 stroke.
You wont need a kicker to troll with either
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Max out whatever hp the boat is rated for and go two stroke, much lighter and less compact.
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I would have to agree with the trailer suggestion. 4 Stroke if you do leave it attached to the boat. I believe many have had problems putting 4 stokes on their side when transporting. Better for the enviroment than a 2 stroke.
I have a 2001 Nissan 2 stroke. Best outboard I have ever used. Way cleaner than the older 2 stokes but still leaves some oil at startup.
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Go 4 Stroke. you will be happy to have the extra power! better to have more power and not use it than not have enough power and need it!
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Yes it is on a trailer. A nice galvanized one at that. Just needs some new bunks and a new winch.
I fish in Wa. State a little bit and I have been reading about some lakes banning 2 strokes. Something to think about.
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I'd get one of those motors that run on propane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trJ5xPQO25k
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An interesting development. I managed to scrape some gunk off the inside and tracked down the plate that has the serial number and capacity. It says 40hp max. Now, just in my experience, this boat does not seam capable of handing that much power. Especially not a heavy, modern 4 stroke.
I think I will stick to my guns and look for a new 20hp 4 stroke. Or maybe a 25-30hp 2 stroke if I can find a decent one.
The transom 'cutout' portion is 15" tall. The total transom height is ~22" and the beam is 60".
Here she is in her 'glory'. Lots of work to be done, but as a freebee it will be fun project and I will get a ton of use out of her.
(http://i.imgur.com/mKxb6oq.jpg)
It was originally silver and was painted a few times. The story goes, the original owner (My Wife's Grandpa) was such a good fisherman in the waters off of Campbell River that he would slap a different colour of paint on the boat all the time to keep followers off his trail.
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I would slap a 40hp yamaha, or honda on there. The are both great
Heres a link to one used:
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?95466-40-hp-Yamaha-outboard-for-sale-3500-00
even if you don't need it , you don't have to run the thing full steam all the time. And it will come in handy going into wind, current, with the tide going out heading back up the lower fraser.
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I can't open that link as I am not a member.
Anyways. Trying to keep costs in line and not drop a $5K+ motor on a $1000 boat, so a 40hp Yamaha or Honda is out of the question.
I can source a new 20hp Nissan/Tohatsu/Merc (same motor) for ~$2600. A 20hp Yammy would be ~$3400.
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I'd look for a mercury 25hp seapro myself
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Never heard of it.
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Had a 1980 fibreglass runabout 16ft & 5 ft beam.
Put a 40 4 stroke Yamaha & it felt a little too heavy for the boat.
Felt it neg way the boat handled.
Added to the weight was the battery plus fuel.
If it were me I'd go max 15 HP 4 stroke on the boat ya have.
2 stroke choice would be a 25 HP.
Just be careful when on the Fraser & salt.
Crazy things can happen. ESP on the lower Fraser R.
Just the wake alone can scare ya ha!
No joke. On some ideal conditions that created my guess 12 ft standing waves or higher literally across to the south wood jetty from downtown Steveston.
NW wind ,fast incoming tide, lots of water flow etc.
Told a Chinese solo boater who was at the launch about running into those waves with our 1996 16 ft Arima boat.
He said " ya I saw yous "
The waves were just in that general area. In the middle of the river the waves were a mere 3 ft.
It would be good if ya could trail & error 2 - 3 outboards before picking the one ya like.
Say a boat marina located on the water & they could demo some used engines for ya.
Weight really is an issue.
Edit In : actually the 1980 boat had a 6 ft beam ( not 5 ft as I 1st posted )
Our 1996 16 ft Arima has a really nice beam at 7' 6".
Quite wide for the length. Very stable.
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Thanks Arima, as I wrote, I know the limits of a boat of this size and have access to a larger boat for more involved duties. So it will never be used in 'iffy' conditions or used far offshore.
The idea of trying a few options is good, if I could make that happen. I think replacing the old 20 with a new 20 will be the sweet spot.
A new Suzuki 20hp is 97lbs. A Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu is 114. So that saves almost 20lbs right there. Something or me to consider. The Honda is 103lbs and Yammy 111lbs. Manual tilt and pull start models.
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thats not a 60's merc hanging off the back of that boat ! more like a mid 70's to 80's !
Why don't u get that atleast checked out first to see what type of shape it really is in !
dealers also might take it in on a trade cause there still people who run them !
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IMO, a 4 stroke is quieter,cleaner, no-mix fuel, and usually trolls slower if you need that. While I'm happy with my 25 Merc 2 stroke from 1989 on my 14 foot aluminum, I've used 4 strokes in my work since the first ones came out and found them to be an overall plus. The mechanics love them too because of easy maintenance, and they keep getting lighter every year. Whichever you choose, be sure to trim it well and, if you can, choose the right prop for best performance. Good luck!
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Go with a 30hp merc, I have deep fisherman 14ft and it moves well with a 30.
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An update, in case anyone cares.
I've been hard at work getting the boat and trailer in tip top shape.
-Bearings repacked
-Rotted transom removed
-Old bunks removed, New bunks covered in marine carpet installed
-New winch
-Removed old rotten swivel seat and base
-New transom going to tomorrow along with all new hardware
-Bench seat (was broken and just kinda floating) reinforced with angle aluminum and new hardware
-Sourced 3 rod holders, mounts will be rigged up tomorrow
-Anchor puller going on tomorrow.
-Fish finder to be mounted tomorrow
The 20hp Merc has been serviced and given a clean bill of health (got lucky). I need to pick up a new tank and hose, mount the sucker up and give it it's new first sea trial. Might put in at Tsawassen where it is nice and calm/flat and see how it goes on the weekend.
Then I need to figure out where to mount up the downrigger(s).
Trying to do this with as little cash outlay as possible. Sourcing good second parts and doing the work myself. The last thing I want to is put more money into this rig than it is worth.
It has been a fun couple weeks getting the old girl sea worthy again. Too bad the damn river is closed.
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Well, here she is after today. A light sanding, primed, masked, two coats of paint. She came out looking decent! On the hunt for replacement decals;
(http://i.imgur.com/Mt07Jeb.jpg)
Looks like this boat is going to be put at the cabin at my friend's place on a 10hp restricted lake, so the 20hp is going to be sold. Too bad, I just put $200 into it PLUS a new tank and hose ~100. I wonder what it is worth...
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Nice work!
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Thanks. It was a LOT of work.
Very time consuming to remove old red overspray from on top of the original decals. It was a nightmare. Using something gentle enough on the logo, yet strong enough to remove 20 year old spray paint, took some doing.
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Well, if your following this thread. I finally got this old boat in the water for it's re-maiden voyage after a lot of blood sweat and tears...and money.
It was a great day on the water. The boat got bloody, and the old Merc worked FLAWLESSLY. I tell you, a light 14 foot aluminum moves well with a 20hp.
Our time was spent up and down stream of Bridgeview marine. We didn't slay out there, but there was enough action to keep us interested.
Any day now, stuff will get reel out there.
Here was a nice 6lb buck.
(http://i.imgur.com/daS7KcO.jpg)
Have fun out there!
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Be careful if the electric motor is not salt-water rated about taking it in the salt chuck. I bought a Minnkota that is salt water rated for that very reason. Cost more, but should be worth it. More and more 2-strokes are being banned in certain areas around North America (well, at least the old ones.)
I like the reliability of our Honda 4-strokes, but I'm sure others are good as well. The 4-strokes seem slower and heavier than the 2-strokes, however.
You'll probably never regret getting too POWERFUL of a motor (if reasonable, and used properly and legally), but you'll certainly regret getting too LITTLE of a motor, I know from personal experience.
Good luck.
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Thats a good point.
So far so good with just the 20hp on there, and oars for emergency use.
Will only use the Kota for the fresh water trips. Or spring for one of those fancy Rip Tide Minn Kotas.
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thats not a 60's merc hanging off the back of that boat ! more like a mid 70's to 80's !
Why don't u get that atleast checked out first to see what type of shape it really is in !
dealers also might take it in on a trade cause there still people who run them !
I would back what rjs said. I had a light weight Springbok (Princecraft) with an 18 hp Evinrude 2 stroke that ran everywhere and in places people said could not be done. I would have a qualified mechanic look at the motor. It is probably still good. If not then I would go with a 25 hp 2 stroke. I've got two, one with a prop and one with a 25 hp jet. I can pick either off the transom and replace it when needed. They weigh about 150 pounds each. Anything larger and it would have to be permanent.
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Regardless of the motor you put on it, I would look at spending $80-120 on an aluminum jackplate from TH marine. You could probably even close in the transom after mounting the jackplate for the motor. The jackplate gives more space in the back of the boat for gear, reduces hole shot and improves top speed. Get a tiller extension for the motor too IMHO.
(http://www.iboats.com/mall/image/view/1/6/40133_2.gif) (http://www.thmarine.com/userfiles/image/gallery/1211/original/MJ-1-DP-mini-jacker-small-engine-jack-plate-INSTALLED-on-inflatable-500.jpg)
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That is interesting. I wonder how effective it would be. The motor we have on it is a short shaft (15") and seems to be the right length for the 20" transom, but maybe the jackplate could improve on this.
At any rate, we had the boat on the Fraser on the weekend and it ran like a champ. M&B Marine gave it a clean bill of health. So we are going to stick with it for the foreseeable future. The only thing is it doesn't troll very well, too fast on the slowest 'setting'. Maybe we need to adjust something or dry a drift sock/ bucket...
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Good plan, mbowers. Years ago on my Springbok I made a removable transom out of plywood that fit over the existing transom. I held it on with C-clamps. It raised my motor out of the water enough to run through shallows. It cavitated a lot, but I still made it up fast moving rivers almost as good as jet boats.
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The benefit of the 4" of set back from that jack plate is the water's surface at that distance from the transom has risen higher relative to the bottom of the hull of the boat (and closer to the height of undisturbed water) as it's further from the hull. The motor actually has more water to work with back there at the same mounting height and ventilation of the prop is reduced.
The jack plate made a world of difference on my 1236 jon boat so I try to spread the word. :)
To reduce trolling speed have you tried manually trimming up the motor if possible? The more trimmed up the motor the less efficient it is at a troll and the slower you should go. More bubbles to attract coho too! :) A bucket or sock is a pain when trolling. Maybe get a spare prop (always a good idea) with a different pitch so your minimum speed is lower?
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Great info, thanks a lot.
Might just give the jack plate thingamabobber a shot.