Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on March 28, 2013, 07:54:33 PM
-
I've seen it done on TV (Sportfishing BC, West Coast Sporting Journal, etc). They'll put away their float rods, and bring out the spinning rods and coffee grinders! Their lure of choice is normally a #4 or #5 blue fox. The method is simple, cast straight out or slightly down stream, and let it swing through the current like a fly. They were hammering the buggers!
I tried this method last steelhead season on the Vedder and got a few funny looks. Admittedly, no one seems to use spinning rods for steelhead, or use spoons/spinners unless they are small+light enough to be fished under a float.
Why is this?! Is it ineffective for this river? Just not cool? I've had a crappy steelhead season (not one to shore) and am looking for something else to give a shot. I'm going out on Sunday for the whole day and am thinking about packing along my spinning rod in addition to my float rod. I have a nice selection of Blue Foxes and similarly weighted spoons (crocs, ironhead, etc). I would not use my float rod/reel to toss these as the length/power/action of the rod would not cast such lures very far or with any accuracy. With my nice 9" spinning rod and reel - no problem.
If I can be convinced that this method of fishing for steelhead on the Vedder is a waste of my time then I'll likely just leave it at home as it'll be a fair hassle to lug around 2 rods. It seems like an effective way to fish and a good way to cover a lot of water.
-
The technique you are refering is also very common back in Ontario and we use big Mepps 3, 4, 5 etc.
I have brought them out many times here on the Vedder and have had some success on the Chehalis and Stave as well but they have always got more fish on sunny warm days or a rise in water temperature . Don't give up and bring all the weapons to
battle!
-
Thanks bigrig, good to hear. So it sounds like this method is better utilized later in the season/spring time? Lately the weather has been sunny and warm and I would assume the water temperature is up a bit.
Is there any reason not to try this earlier in the season when it's freezing cold? Most days I could not be bothered to haul 2 rods to the river, I move around a fair bit and it would just be a big pain in the rump. However at this point I am willing to try anything!
-
Everyday should chip in with his reports.
-
Thanks bigrig, good to hear. So it sounds like this method is better utilized later in the season/spring time? Lately the weather has been sunny and warm and I would assume the water temperature is up a bit.
Is there any reason not to try this earlier in the season when it's freezing cold? Most days I could not be bothered to haul 2 rods to the river, I move around a fair bit and it would just be a big pain in the rump. However at this point I am willing to try anything!
I think there is not alot of fish around this yr hence your lack of success. I got out 8 times this winter(work gets in the way) and only hooked 4 fish,beaching 1 out of the 4,that being a nice 13 pd 4 oz hatch doe. Most yrs i can average one hookup per outing. I met a american fellow a few yrs back who only fished spinners and he was catching his fair share. he told me the big slower pool tailouts were his favorite water to fish.
-
I started tossing spoons for steel last year. To be honest, it was just for a change of pace and to learn something new. Set down the gear rod for the whole season and only stuck to hardware.
I found out a few things:
1) A properly fished spoon is hard to beat
2) The myth about steelhead not liking metal in December/Jan is quite the opposite of the truth
3) You can cover a tonne of water in a day, effectively, if doing it properly
4) The hit from a steelhead on a swung spoon is unbeatable, in fact, I haven't looked back
This year I have been fooling around with the pin a bit as well as chucking metal, and still most days the metal out fishes the roe/prawns/jigs by a wide margin.
A few times sight fishing this year we spent over an hour tossing everything at a pod of fish from roe, prawns, crayfish, worms, pink worms, wool, jigs, literally everything. We even downsized to 6 pnd flouro leaders up to 3 ft long and still not a hit. Threw the spoons through and picked off 7 fish in 8 or so casts, and this was in December and January.
As for your question about it being ineffective on the Vedder. Last year I hit 6 fish in December in 5 trips... and pretty much managed a fish a trip on them. So, yes they work well, just not many people seem to toss them. You also get a lot of looks/comments when you walk into a run with your spinning set up. The one thing I have found on the Vedder, is the fish seem to like the spoon down deep. I even very rarely hit them on the swing (like everywhere else) as opposed to rolling it along the bottom or jigging it.
It can be a tough road to learn. It took my a while to get use to what a proper swing felt like, and how to keep from losing spoons, how to hook up fish, etc. It's a lot different than float fishing as far as hooksets and covering water properly. Also be prepared to loose a bunch of spoons. Most days if I'm hitting fish I'm going to lose at least a spoon or two to the bottom. I'v heard lots of the better metal chuckers say if you're not losing at least 1 spoon a day, you're doing something wrong.
Another quick thing.. I'd stick with spoons until you get good with them. Feeling a swing on a spinner is much more difficult than a spoon, and to be honest I still have yet to hit a steelhead with a spinner even when they go nuts for the spoons. I would recommend R&B spoons in 2/5 size to pretty much cover everything.
I could go on and on really... so I'll stop there. Any other questions you can feel free to post em on this thread and I'll respond, or shoot me a PM.
Cheers,
Dan
-
I've fished spoons (and blades) for 35+ years using my pins. As long as there is enough room for a big sweep, I can cast a 1/4oz spoon on my beat up old pins but usually use 3/8 or 1/2 oz. I'll also fire out a 55 Kit-a-mat or similar if the conditions are right. In tighter quarters I'll strip-cast. The swinging method works well but I've got fish casting almost directly upstream and tumbling or jigging the spoon as it comes downstream as alluded to by Every Day. That method is best learned with cheaper lures :). I normally fish spinners (blades) on a float rig but will take the float off for deep holes. The normal method is to swing them but if I can't get upstream of a holding area, I find it effective to cast upstream above the fish and drag the float and blade downstream through the holding area just a little quicker than the current and hang on tight ;D
-
Last season all I fished for steelhead were spoons and occasionally the spey rod on the vedder. In my 6 trips swinging spoons I landed 9 steelhead, including 4 in one day on March 23. Was only skunked one day, but the water conditions were horrible.
I found it way more enjoyable than float fishing.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387533_271151429668071_1954632419_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538224_181649888618226_171976302_n.jpg)
-
S-Sack, from what I'm hearing from these guys, is that it takes a little trial and error with a learning curve to catch fish consistently with spoons.
In your post you said you werent catching fish and were willing to try anything to get them.
In my experience when you aren't catching fish it's time to buckle down and fish water you know holds fish with lures you know that work for you. This is the only way to have confidence in yourself. The big numbers of fish just aren't there this year, but there's still fish around.
-
S-Sack, from what I'm hearing from these guys, is that it takes a little trial and error with a learning curve to catch fish consistently with spoons.
In your post you said you werent catching fish and were willing to try anything to get them.
In my experience when you aren't catching fish it's time to buckle down and fish water you know holds fish with lures you know that work for you. This is the only way to have confidence in yourself. The big numbers of fish just aren't there this year, but there's still fish around.
Well said, I figured out the spoon game fishing for coho on a few different flows before trying spoons for steel
-
fishing spinners and spoons under a float is very common and old style for the Vedder- Chilliwack. Some parts of the river aren't well suited to the traditional spin cast method but I have been using it in the fall for salmon and it's effective. Coho and even springs love spinners.
-
Thanks a lot guys! I just read through all the responses and learned a fair bit. Well, it's settled when I go out on Sunday for the whole day I'll bring the spinning rod along and toss some spoons and spinners in water where I think I can get a nice swing (eg. big slower pool tailouts as pointed out by DennisT).
I just rememebred a book I bought years ago called "Spoon fishing for steelhead." I'll paste a link to it below. I read it half awake on a graveyard shift, but I recall it had some really good info on the different types of spoons, what type of water they each fish best in, best colors for different water, etc. I'm going to re-read it when I have a chance.
http://www.amazon.ca/Spoon-Fishing-Steelhead-Bill-Herzog/dp/1878175300/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364597713&sr=8-2
Another thought: Wondering which spinning rod and reel I should bring. I have a stiffer 9 foot rod that would toss heavier spoons well, but anything less that 1/2oz is a chore to get any distance out of. Reel on this rod is spooled up with 12LB mono. Other 9 foot rod is much noodlier and the reel on it has 20LB braid (6LB diameter). This combo will launch the small salmon spoons no problem, but would be underpowered to get a decent hook set on a bigger spoon/hook (say 1/2oz or heavier).
I like the braid as you get a really good feel for the action of the spoon/spinner. However, I wonder if it would spook the fish in the clear-ish water? Perhaps I'll attach 3-5 feet of mono with a uni-to-uni knot and a little dab of Loon knot glue and fish it that way.
Any reccomendations on mono mailnline vs braid and running a mono leader if using the braided reel? I could probably put the braided reel on the stronger spinning rod and still get decent distance...just another option.
-
I worked at FFSBC fraser valley trout hatchery this past year... and made some interesting observations.
Me and a couple other people ran a mock test on the trout fishing ponds to see if line really made a difference.
We tested braided line (8 pnd braid), 8 pound mono, and 8 pound flouro.
Fished each of the lines for about an hour.
Braid - 0 hook-ups, and not even a look really. Mono did a bit better and got a few fish, and flouro out-fished hands down.
Another interesting thing was that it didn't matter what size flouro we used, but with mono and braid it did seem to matter lots.
On my spinning rods I run braid. Rod size for my rods are normally rated 6-10 pnds (light and noodly). Normally I run 10 pound braid on all my reels for a good feel and better hook sets. For a leader I run around 10 feet of 14 pound flouro leader. I use a loop to loop connection system to attach the leader to the braid as I'v found this is the only way to keep the braid from cutting through the leader (also an easy knot to tie and slides through the guides well).
As for only fishing the tailouts, those are a great option. I tend to look for nice long runs with lots of boulders and a walking pace around 4 ft deep for swinging. As said before though, don't hesitate to jig (or roll) a spoon through a nice looking pocket or deep trench in a run, and hold on tight!
-
Since getting into spoon fishing about 12 years ago, I have not looked back.
I carry 2 rods with me when I go fishing; one float set up, and one spoon / spinner set up.
I have not fished a lot for Steelhead with spoons, although I have caught a few on spoons. It seems that Coho love spoons when fished properly. I have gone in to a run where other anglers have said "No way. They have lockjaw", and I have caught Coho using a spoon. There is nothing more exciting than feeling the "thump" of a spoon fluttering in the water, then a savage take down.
I think spoon fishing is a bit of a lost art. My faves are the Pen-Tac spoons followed closely by the Gibbs Koho in sizes 35 and 45.
-
Thanks a lot guys! I'm heading out in about 15min for what should be a beautiful day's fishing. I tied up a leader board of clear water rigs for the gear rod (jensen eggs, small worms, colorados, etc) and went through my spoon stash and picked out the smaller ones (1/4-1/2) that I think would cast and fish well on the spinning rod/reel I'm bringing.
That spoon fishing book I mentioned in an earlier post is AWESOME. I've been re-reading it (last read several years ago) and it has a lot of good content. I'd highly reccomend it. Cheap too.
I'll be tossing the gear into the tight spots where swinging a spoon/spinning would be impractical, and swinging the spoon/spinner through those deeper water and tailouts.
-
Well...spent the day on the Vedder yesterday with both rods. On the one hand it was a nice change of pace to put down the float rod here and there and swing a spoon through a run. I like the feel of the "thump thump thump" as the spoon wobbles through the water. On the other hand it is a real pain carrying around 2 rods! I like to toss 15-20 casts or so then move a bit down the run. Having to repeatedly pick up the 2nd rod and place it carefully on shore grew tiring in a hurry! I think in the future if I felft like spoon/spinner fishing I would just grab that rod and go to a run with good water for that type of gear. That way I could travel light and just bring the one rod and a selection of different spoons/spinners. Trying to lug around the 2 rods while being on the move for steelhead sucks!
Thanks again for all the tips on fishing spoons/spinners! Definitley a method I'd contine with and work on improving at.
-
Well...spent the day on the Vedder yesterday with both rods. On the one hand it was a nice change of pace to put down the float rod here and there and swing a spoon through a run. I like the feel of the "thump thump thump" as the spoon wobbles through the water. On the other hand it is a real pain carrying around 2 rods! I like to toss 15-20 casts or so then move a bit down the run. Having to repeatedly pick up the 2nd rod and place it carefully on shore grew tiring in a hurry! I think in the future if I felft like spoon/spinner fishing I would just grab that rod and go to a run with good water for that type of gear. That way I could travel light and just bring the one rod and a selection of different spoons/spinners. Trying to lug around the 2 rods while being on the move for steelhead sucks!
Thanks again for all the tips on fishing spoons/spinners! Definitley a method I'd contine with and work on improving at.
Awesome mate!
I recently moved over here from Australia (arrived late in the winter), got my rods and gear sent over and started researching the best methods for catching all the different species in the area. One thing that really surprised we was how under-developed the spinning w/ spoons/SP's situation is here in BC. I've been to multiple tackle shops, spoke to other fishermen etc and in most instances they simply scoff when I bring up spinning with lures. For me the sense of satisfaction when bringing in a lure slowly with the revolutions of a spin reel is unbeatable. One of the coolest aspects is how you can change up the retrieval speed and technique to get different results, physically altering the swim pattern of the lure/SP right before your eyes, that's where the fun really starts!
I use a 2500 sized higher end Shimano reel w/ 10lb braid and it is unbeatable for most situations. It has more than adequate stopping power to holt big fish in their tracks, yet still small enough to have a great time.
Keep us updated with your trips mate - you aren't the only one out there who gets funny looks when you rock up w/ no floats haha!
-
--I don't really know the reason but it seem the majority of fishers here when they think of spin gear think of it in the context of the cheapest gear available. I do not often see higher end spin rods and reels in stores.
--Part of the reason is Shimano and probably others... wholesale price in Canada is more than retail for same reel in USA.
--When WFN first came on the scene in Canada...several shows were from Australia where it seems the old egg beater is king among reels... with many different manufacturers of high end salt and fresh water reels. I often go to Australian on line sites to view the gear being used.
--Please if you are using higher end spin gear let us know what the most popular and favourites are... plus don't be afraid to use methods you are familiar with here... they will likely work.
-
--I don't really know the reason but it seem the majority of fishers here when they think of spin gear think of it in the context of the cheapest gear available. I do not often see higher end spin rods and reels in stores.
--Part of the reason is Shimano and probably others... wholesale price in Canada is more than retail for same reel in USA.
--When WFN first came on the scene in Canada...several shows were from Australia where it seems the old egg beater is king among reels... with many different manufacturers of high end salt and fresh water reels. I often go to Australian on line sites to view the gear being used.
--Please if you are using higher end spin gear let us know what the most popular and favourites are... plus don't be afraid to use methods you are familiar with here... they will likely work.
G'day mate.
I use a combination of Shimano Stradic FJ reels (IMO, the best bang for your buck you can get in fishing), as well as the Stella range for large SW applications. The new big thing on the block at the moment is the Okuma Salina III. Don't confuse this reel with the Okuma's made over in the US, it's a completely different thing. The Salina II was a game changer when it was released back in Australia. Previously for all BIG saltwater applications you needed a Stella, Daiwa Saltiga or something similar...all ~$1000 when you get into the bigger models. Okuma released the Salina at $200-250 which is insanely cheap considering the performance of the reel, then went on to release the latest version last year - check out some stats:
Model Max Drag Bearings Gear Ratio Line Capacity mm/M
SA3-4000 14kg 8+1 HPBB 5.0:1 0.25/270 0.30/190 0.32/170
SA3-5000 15kg 8+1 HPBB 4.5:1 0.30/380 0.32/340 0.37/240
SA3-10000 24kg 8+1 HPBB 4.8:1 0.32/430 0.37/310 0.42/260
SA3-16000 24kg 8+1 HPBB 4.8:1 0.37/420 0.42/350 0.48/260
HIGH SPEED
SAS3-5000 15kg 8+1 HPBB 5.7:1 0.30/380 0.32/340 0.37/240
SAS3-10000 24kg 8+1 HPBB 5.7:1 0.32/430 0.37/310 0.42/260
SAS3-16000 24kg 8+1 HPBB 5.7:1 0.37/420 0.42/350 0.48/260
24kg drag on a $250 eggbeater is pretty insane. You can buy 4 of these reels for the same price as a Stella and they come with lifetime warranty.
As far as techniques go, the big difference for me is the use of soft plastics. People love 'pink worms' here it seems, but the market is extremely underdeveloped. Over the years people have become more and more comfortable using SP's, so I am definitely keen to try out a few of the techniques local people have told me "don't work". I have been directed to floss for all fish when fishing in the tidal Fraser as it is "the only technique that works". I have also been told that plastic/spinner presentation is irrelevant here and amounts to nothing when it comes to attracting the fish (seems redundant, eh?).
Out of all the North American brands I have gone through so far, the one SP most interesting to me is the Z-Man Eggz:
http://zmanfishing.com/store/categories/elaztech/ezeggz (http://zmanfishing.com/store/categories/elaztech/ezeggz)
This brand in Australia are the #1 in soft plastics at the moment, even surpassing the 'big hitters' like Berkley Gulp's.
It's nice just being able to have a discussion about fishing without people assuming you are a retard because you use spin gear (and pass over the quality of spin gear you are using...probably not knowing high end spin stuff actually exists).
Cheers
-
A few little spinners and spoons go into every tackle box I have, just in case, and the pike and walleye box has a lot. One thing I've noticed that's missing in what I do is fluorocarbon. The post about the pond test has about convinced me I should learn how to use this stuff and try it out - in the other types of fishing I do I've bypassed fluoro by using heavier mono or braid leaders or rigs, but I suppose the time for change has come. :D
-
A few little spinners and spoons go into every tackle box I have, just in case, and the pike and walleye box has a lot. One thing I've noticed that's missing in what I do is fluorocarbon. The post about the pond test has about convinced me I should learn how to use this stuff and try it out - in the other types of fishing I do I've bypassed fluoro by using heavier mono or braid leaders or rigs, but I suppose the time for change has come. :D
Give it a go mate. Once you turn to flurocarbon and your hit rate doubles, you never turn back :).
-
How do you guys change spoon when fishing,retie it at the end of main line,or use some kind of swivel/snap?
-
Snap swivel
-
Dou locks are pretty sweet... I never liked snap swivels for some reason.
I have to admit though, I very rarely change a spoon up, and if I do it's a re-tie.
Spoons are about covering water, and I'v never had better luck with a diff spoon after I'v already run one through. I find it's a 1st/2nd/3rd cast hit or they ain't gonna touch it and move on. Stick to one spoon and just keep moving.
-
I agree the "all in one" snap swivel will open up on you. The duo-lock set up it better. The way I was show to set up your spoons this way is as follows:
1- Take the split rings out of the tops of your spoons.
2- Tie a good quality barrel swivel to your mailline.
3- Buy some good quality duo-lock swivels that match the size of the barrel swivel.
4- Open up both ends of the duo lock. The small end goes through the barrel swivel then locks. The big end goes through the eye of your spoon then locks.
5- Make sure the big end of the duo lock is big enough to allow free movement of the spoon (if it catches up you need a bigger duo-lock).
6- Done! To change spoons just unclip the big end of the due lock, insert new spoon.
-
Dou locks are pretty sweet... I never liked snap swivels for some reason.
I have to admit though, I very rarely change a spoon up, and if I do it's a re-tie.
Spoons are about covering water, and I'v never had better luck with a diff spoon after I'v already run one through. I find it's a 1st/2nd/3rd cast hit or they ain't gonna touch it and move on. Stick to one spoon and just keep moving.
I'm new to the spoon fishing scene, but I think the autor of the book I'm reading on the topic would disagree with this statement.
A 1/2 Ko Wobbler, for example, will ride high in the water. A 1/2 Crocodile, will sink much lower even though it is the same weight. The reason is the shape/profile.
If you are fishing a shape of spoon that matches the water conditions, then switching to a variety of different colors of a same or similarly shaped spoon is probably a waste of time.
However switching to a completely different shaped spoon of the same weight will greatly affect if the spoon is in or out of the strike zone. I noticed this big time the other day. On some runs I was fishing a 1/2oz Ko Wobbler and I could literally see it just under the surface. Realizing it was the wrong spoon for this run, I tried a 1/2 oz Crocodile. It's slim profile was causing it to dive too deep and was bouncing off rocks every few feet. Then I tried a 1/2oz Koho and it swung through the water perfectly and only tapped bottom a few times near the end of the swing.
I guess the morale of the story is your lure needs to be in the strike zone. No different that swinging a steelhead fly through a run that is riding too high or too low in the water.
Author reccomends for trying out spoons on the river and getting the hang of them to strat out with a 1/2 "classic design" like a Blue Fox Pixee. This type and weight of spoon will cover most water reasonably well.
-
I'm new to the spoon fishing scene, but I think the autor of the book I'm reading on the topic would disagree with this statement.
A 1/2 Ko Wobbler, for example, will ride high in the water. A 1/2 Crocodile, will sink much lower even though it is the same weight. The reason is the shape/profile.
If you are fishing a shape of spoon that matches the water conditions, then switching to a variety of different colors of a same or similarly shaped spoon is probably a waste of time.
However switching to a completely different shaped spoon of the same weight will greatly affect if the spoon is in or out of the strike zone. I noticed this big time the other day. On some runs I was fishing a 1/2oz Ko Wobbler and I could literally see it just under the surface. Realizing it was the wrong spoon for this run, I tried a 1/2 oz Crocodile. It's slim profile was causing it to dive too deep and was bouncing off rocks every few feet. Then I tried a 1/2oz Koho and it swung through the water perfectly and only tapped bottom a few times near the end of the swing.
I guess the morale of the story is your lure needs to be in the strike zone. No different that swinging a steelhead fly through a run that is riding too high or too low in the water.
Author reccomends for trying out spoons on the river and getting the hang of them to strat out with a 1/2 "classic design" like a Blue Fox Pixee. This type and weight of spoon will cover most water reasonably well.
Absolutely mate.
I run my braided mainline to a micro swivel(dont need ball bearing, the micros spin very easily), then a flurocarbon leader down to a little duolock. I will flip through spoons depending on where I am at during the day. I have found in my experience the change up of a spoon over the same passage of water can change the tide from no bites to hook up mania! Every spoon has a different action, presentation etc and fish can be fickle :).
-
I'm new to the spoon fishing scene, but I think the autor of the book I'm reading on the topic would disagree with this statement.
I guess the morale of the story is your lure needs to be in the strike zone. No different that swinging a steelhead fly through a run that is riding too high or too low in the water.
Author reccomends for trying out spoons on the river and getting the hang of them to strat out with a 1/2 "classic design" like a Blue Fox Pixee. This type and weight of spoon will cover most water reasonably well.
I definitely respect Brown's opinion. He is probably the leader in spoon fishing steehead, and I would never even come close to knowing as much as he does. The one opinion I gave first applies for me to steelhead solely.
I generally use 1 type of spoon (which is that general "classic design" you are talking about - oval shaped with a pretty decent cup on it). I find R&B or Rvrfshr suit it best. To get down in certain runs I just adjust my method of either casting up-stream higher and letting it sink, or high sticking and jigging it. 2/5 seems to be the perfect size to cover almost everything. Sometimes I will change the spoon at the start of the run if I need to, but I don't run through with a different spoon after.
I'm not saying that this is the be all end all of spoon fishing, or even that I'm the best person to ask, I was simply just giving general information on what works for me. I've picked up nearly 60 fish this year on spoons, and only had 3 picked up all season behind me, where probably 40 of the fish I have hooked have been behind other people tossing either the same or different spoons. I'm convinced it has nothing to do with the size or action as long as you are getting it down in front of the steelhead (if it's a fast run, etc I may switch to a 2/3). It is also a lot about feel and knowing when you are getting down well and getting a proper thump.
If we are talking about coho, chinook, chum or pinks though... that's another story. I could go from a skunk day to a lights out 20+ day by just changing size of a spoon or by changing type all together (colour definitely matters with salmon as well). Steelhead just don't seem to care as much from what I've found. Keep in mind I sight fish a great number of these steelhead, and I never see them move to one spoon more than another unless one isn't getting deep enough. As I also said before earlier in this thread... don't discount jigging spoons through after you've swung them through. Many days sight fishing has seen jigging spoons as the trigger they needed (extra action and getting down deeper I guess).
Cheers,
Dan
-
I worked at FFSBC fraser valley trout hatchery this past year... and made some interesting observations.
Me and a couple other people ran a mock test on the trout fishing ponds to see if line really made a difference.
We tested braided line (8 pnd braid), 8 pound mono, and 8 pound flouro.
Fished each of the lines for about an hour.
Braid - 0 hook-ups, and not even a look really. Mono did a bit better and got a few fish, and flouro out-fished hands down.
Another interesting thing was that it didn't matter what size flouro we used, but with mono and braid it did seem to matter lots.
ED, very interesting observation.
Were all the tests done using spoons/spinners only?
-
ED, very interesting observation.
Were all the tests done using spoons/spinners only?
I only did it with flies and spoons.
I might give it a go this year with bait and whatever else.
I'm sure results would be the same regardless.
-
My opinion on flourocarbon: Not saying I am know I'm right, just my thoughts through experience and what I've learned from fishermen much better than I...
For fly fishing (mainly in still waters) for picky trout esp in clear water with small flies, I use flourocarbon leader/tippet. I'm not 100% if I catch more fish with it that with mono, but the last couple years I've had great success on lakes with my leeches, chronomids, etc and I was always using flourocarbon. So, for this application I have confidence in it and use it.
For river fishing, I think it's mainly a waste of money. Last year I fished mainly flourocarbon leaders for coho and not once did I outfish the other guys with their mono leaaders. I think it comes down 99% to what/how your using (esp the size of the hook/lure), and if it's being fished effective/in the stike zone. I fished beside my buddy all day several times and he always outfished my flouro with his mono. Why? He is just more experienced at fishing his set up just right, quicker on the hook set, etc. If all variables were the same would flouro possibly come out on top? Possibly, but given its cost and the amount you go through in a day, 9/10 days on the river I'm sticking with mono leaders. If nothing seems to be working and fish are there I would switch to flouro as a last effort.
I also noticed with flourocarbon the knot strength sucks compared to mono. I had several improved clinch knots bust at the knot with a fish on. I did some research (knot wars on You-Tube) and found that the improved clinch is not a very good knot with flouro. Switched to the palomar and noticed a big difference. However I find the palomar a pain to tie. Overall my take on flourocarbon is there are certain applications where it may give you an edge, however most of the time it's poor knot strength and high cost make it a less than practical choice.
One last thought on using flouro with spoons, jigs, etc. IMO if a fish sees a big spoon or similar lure in front of its face the last thing it's going to notice is your mono leader (assuming you're fishing a reasonable lb test). If fishing a tiny hook with, say, a jensen egg in clear water? Perhaps it may give your an advantage, I just haven't noticed or seen from other guys any difference. However if you watch any fishing show it's flourocarbon or nothing! The exepnsive Seaguar type too, of course...
-
Flouro definately not needed with spoons/spinners/worms......imo it helps in low clear water fishing bait or jenny eggs.Never had a problem with improved clinch knots...make sure you wet the knot well and tighten slowly/gently and don't overtighten/stress it....have used seaguar,berkley vanish,and currently some from platypus......
-
Like spoonman, I have been using improved clinch knots with fluorocarbon leaders for years without any problems. I use #12 Seaguar Invizx for river steelheading and #4 Berkeley Vanish for trout fishing in lakes with good success. As long as I tie them well, they have held as well as mono line I use which are Maxima Ultragreen and P-Line CXX Xtra stong.
-
I only did it with flies and spoons.
I might give it a go this year with bait and whatever else.
I'm sure results would be the same regardless.
ED, pls keep us posted on any additional tests you do this year.
Your result for spoons is very interesting as it is contrary to widely held view.
I am planning to use a fluorocarbon leader on my spoons when I fish for rainbows in lakes this spring to see if I can improve my hookups. (I have always used #4 mono in the past with good results, but the lakes I fished always had colour to it with viz of 2~3 feet.)
-
--could be factors other than the line... ie depth of the pool.
--shadow from the line movement
--fish just funnin with yah.
-
Dave Vedder has some nice books on the subject, I recall them from the POCO library
-
--could be factors other than the line... ie depth of the pool.
--shadow from the line movement
--fish just funnin with yah.
All the observations were in the exact same area of the pond, at the same time of the day.
The tests also held true every single day I tried it, with braid never getting any fish at all.
I had always though that if they are biting a big flashy spoon they wouldn't care about line, but it was obvious I was proven wrong. The fact that I saw such a HUGE difference between braid and mono, and also mono and flouro in the ponds with "dumb" (and by dumb i mean dumb) trout, makes me think that the results would be amplified with salmon and steelhead.
Regardless, it has pushed me to use only flourocarbon. Granted I use 15 pound, but I tend to pick up a lot of fish with my 15 pnd flouro when my buddies ahead of me are using 12 pnd ultra green with the exact same spoon. Maybe it's all just luck and abnormal behaviour, but I won't be going back to anything but flouro.
-
I will post for sale a bunch of spoons, may you be interested...
-
If I am not swinging flies for winter Steelies I am fishing hardware. Personally I don't buy into the Fluro for stealth reasons for steelies and salmon especially for swinging hardware or swinging flies as my experience is that it makes no difference to hook ups. I am more convinced of its stealth benefits concerning fly fishing spooky trout or float fishing slow gin clear canyon water with small presentations. I do however use it now swinging flies and spoons and spinners just for its abrasion resistance. I use 30lb braid main, beadchain swivel 3' of 20lb fluro and a snap for hardware on the levelwind setup and I don't lose too many spoons and spinners as you can often straighten the hooks with this rig; also use 15lb mono on my spinning rod and it works as well if I don't need to feed line into the swing. Braid gives way beter feel but I find the mono is better for landing fish due to the give. This year I have been only using R and B spoons and Blue Fox Spinners in size 3 and 4, Silver Blade, Chartreuse, Kelly Green, Blue or Orange body with pretty much equal results. Hooks wise I am using the 1 or 1/0 Mustard Ultrapoint Siwash or those new Owner Stinger Siwash which I also like. I am around 50/50 for hooks up this year with the Spinners versus Spoons. Get out there, now is the time if you want to get into some good numbers!
Few from the last couple of years...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/183187_10150433714585626_7751711_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/521636_10152724314770626_1887176962_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/69094_10152724318715626_915385332_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/525344_10152734940985626_301101783_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/11885_10152746652615626_791406824_n.jpg)
-
Nice pics NR! :)
-
Re R&B spoons, are you having trouble ordering them online ?
-
They should be through a local source soon I think.
-
R&B is setting up a Canadian distributor he will no longer ship to Canada
-
:)
-
I have not actually dealt with R&B company in the states yet, as all the spoons I have used of theirs have mostly come from friends or contests, etc. I can say though, that I have nailed a lot of fish with them this year, including some absolute pigs 18 to easily over 20. A bunch of these fish have been hit behind people as well tossing other hardware in front of me. My fav's have been the 2/3 silver/copper and silver/brass.
I wouldn't be giving up on them just yet. Once the Canadian distributor is all stocked up it should be pretty smooth sailing for a great spoon! Definitely one of the better I've used, and I'll continue using them for sure!
-
Anybody know who the Canadian distributor is going to be ?
-
R&B spoons will be distributed by a company called Trophy Tackle. The spoons should be in a few of the local tackle shops within a week or two and they'll be available for order via a website within a month or so. Orders will be shipped from Vancouver so delivery time will be speedy.
-
:)
-
I have not actually dealt with R&B company in the states yet, as all the spoons I have used of theirs have mostly come from friends or contests, etc. I can say though, that I have nailed a lot of fish with them this year, including some absolute pigs 18 to easily over 20. A bunch of these fish have been hit behind people as well tossing other hardware in front of me. My fav's have been the 2/3 silver/copper and silver/brass.
I wouldn't be giving up on them just yet. Once the Canadian distributor is all stocked up it should be pretty smooth sailing for a great spoon! Definitely one of the better I've used, and I'll continue using them for sure!
what makes this spoon superior? I hear a lot of people talk about the quality of their spoons. is it the shape? plating? just curious not questioning it.
-
R&B isn't necessarily a "superior" spoon, but it is an extremely good quality spoon in all aspects and offered at a very good price.
The shape is the classic oval style. Similar to an Ironhead, BC Steel or RVRFSHR. This is an excellent all around shape for most water conditions. It gets down and stays down. The action of this shape spoon is great not only for attracting and triggering fish to strike but also it is also a pleasure to use as the telltale thump thump thump is easy to read by the angler. R&B plating and finish options are also top notch. They do not use nickel in any of their products other than as a base coat for genuine gold top plate. Gold and silver reflect up to 90% more light than nickel. A huge benefit in coloured or deep water. They produce a wide variety of solid or 50/50 metal finishes and colours.
what makes this spoon superior? I hear a lot of people talk about the quality of their spoons. is it the shape? plating? just curious not questioning it.
-
:)