Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: buzzbomb on March 25, 2013, 12:23:26 PM
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I've noticed that many on here are using CP reels and baitcasters for steelheading, and I know what a steelhead spinning rod looks like, (most I've seen are around 10'6" or 11ft in med light action with lots of guides). Why wouldn't I be able to use some of my carp gear for that? A 12' rod in 2.25 test curve should be whippy enough and if big baitrunners are too heavy and the 300 yds+ of line not needed I have a DAM medium sized one that balances better. Anyone forsee any pitfalls, (aside from needing a long net handle)?
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It is possible to use carp gear and spinning rods for steelhead. Just as you could run a marathon in hiking boots. It's possible but a hell of a lot more difficult.
Save yourself a lot of grief and get a bait caster or CP setup.
There is something to be said about local knowledge.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Carp rods are very sensitive and you can't set the hook properly. Spinning reels won't give you a good and long drift as the baitcasting reel will. Some guys in the Washington and Oregon use spinning reels but their drifts are fairly short. Probably more because of tradition then effective use. You have to use both hands all the time with spinning reels.
ETC...It's a pain.
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It is possible to use carp gear and spinning rods for steelhead. Just as you could run a marathon in hiking boots. It's possible but a hell of a lot more difficult.
Save yourself a lot of grief and get a bait caster or CP setup.
There is something to be said about local knowledge.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Carp rods are very sensitive and you can't set the hook properly. Spinning reels won't give you a good and long drift as the baitcasting reel will. Some guys in the Washington and Oregon use spinning reels but their drifts are fairly short. Probably more because of tradition then effective use. You have to use both hands all the time with spinning reels.
ETC...It's a pain.
What he said.
Plus, if you use spinning reels (AKA as coffee grinders) to float fish, you will inevitably get the "beeko - be gone" look!
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Plus, if you use spinning reels (AKA as coffee grinders) to float fish, you will inevitably get the "beeko - be gone" look!
Walk down to the vedder with a 9' spinning rod and a spinning reel into any run you want.
You get called all sorts of names, get lots of looks and every one will leave.
After they leave, throw your spoon in and see what happens lol.
I was actually enjoying being viewed as a beek last year, it had all kinds of benefits ;D
Anyone forsee any pitfalls, (aside from needing a long net handle)?
I don't have any experience with carp rods, but from what you're describing I can't see any problems.
I run light noodly rods for steelhead and tend to do fairly well.
Lots of guys I know run spey or fly rod blanks for pin rods as well, which are quite noodly.
I really like the action and fight on a lighter rod, and they are great for tossing metal.
The only thing you might run into (which I'v run into a lot this year) is loosing a lot of fish due to poor hook sets (at least that's what I'm blaming it on!) :P
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I've seen more guys with centre pins act like a beek than anyone. Especially if you catch a Steelhead on spinning gear by them. :)
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--like any specialty equipement... good carp gear would work... that is a spin reel with freespool that would allow you to drift a float no problem.
--it seems many of the experts give advice based on the common thinking that everyone that has a spin reel has a cheap one.
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I used a spinning reel for a while when I just started salmon fishing on the Vedder. It is definitely doable but it is difficult to get decent drifts for sure. I think you are better off fishing spoons through the pools and such with a spinning reel which can definitely be an effective way to fish.
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as long as the color of your rod and reel match along with your Simms Jacket,no one will notice,you will blend right in 8)
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as long as the color of your rod and reel match along with your Simms Jacket,no one will notice,you will blend right in 8)
LOL
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It is possible to use carp gear and spinning rods for steelhead. Just as you could run a marathon in hiking boots. It's possible but a hell of a lot more difficult.
Carp rods are very sensitive and you can't set the hook properly. Spinning reels won't give you a good and long drift as the baitcasting reel will. Some guys in the Washington and Oregon use spinning reels but their drifts are fairly short. Probably more because of tradition then effective use. You have to use both hands all the time with spinning reels.
ETC...It's a pain.
I can see the length being a problem re:hookset, if I had a 1.75 tc 11' that would be closer to a commercial steelhead rod but 2.25 is the lightest I have right now. By 'long drift' I assume you mean the distance your bait and float travel. As I said I have baitrunners that would allow me to freespool for over 300 yards and still have line left to fight a fish, but I doubt that capacity is needed on rivers. The advantage I've found for carp gear on lakes is primarily being to cast out 100 yds to access features I'd normally need the boat for.
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I can see the length being a problem re:hookset, if I had a 1.75 tc 11' that would be closer to a commercial steelhead rod but 2.25 is the lightest I have right now. By 'long drift' I assume you mean the distance your bait and float travel. As I said I have baitrunners that would allow me to freespool for over 300 yards and still have line left to fight a fish, but I doubt that capacity is needed on rivers. The advantage I've found for carp gear on lakes is primarily being to cast out 100 yds to access features I'd normally need the boat for.
Yes length of drift is the length your float travels from the time you cast it in to the time you have too much line out and start losing control and have to reel it in.
Baitrunner is designed to help you once you've got the fish. All it is, is a more sophisticated drag system.
The problem with spinning reels and drift fishing is that there is no good way to release just enough line of the spool by the float's motion downstream.
You have to open the bale which means you can't set the hook in case of a bite. You have to either palm the spool or start reeling or manually engage the bale by the other hand.
Like I said, it's all possible but it's a lot more difficult.
Just go out to the river and ask someone with a casting reel to let you try the reel and you will immediately understand the difference.
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............or you can turn off the anti-reverse and back-reel......set hook with bail already closed.....switch anti reverse back on while fighting fish.....
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I'd be more likely to adopt a float rod and reel than a baitcaster just from personal preference. The difficulty getting a quick hookset with a 12' rod is no doubt why almost all float rods are shorter, but the action of an average steelhead rod is still quite a bit lighter than 2.25 tc.... I have 2.75 and 3 lb test curve rods with more backbone but wouldn't want to sacrifice sensitivity for hookset speed. That's more my concern than the reel. We use baitrunners to floatfish for other species as well as deadbaiting, (and fly gear with floats for that matter) so I believe that sometimes a crossover is possible. When a baitrunner is in use, the spool turns freely allowing a fish to run with the bait, or a float and the bait beneath it to be carried by the current. The bail is always closed, and the tension required for line to come off is full adjustable to suit conditions (the Shimmys I got from England are remarkably sensitive). The better quality of reel, the better both drag systems are. To lock the spool up to your pre-set drag you either flip the switch on top of the reel or turn the handle. Once you have the fish on, you don't use the baitrunner function. I think they were designed for live bait sea fishing so the bait could swim freely. If you want to set the hook you have to use your free hand to hit that switch or crank the handle - if you have to do it one-handed as soon as the float starts to go down then they aren't suitable, because that takes a second either way.
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What type of line do you use for CP float fishing? I put an offer in on a J Ryall centerpin with an 8wt flyline on it but I've had a notion you use mono too. My old biker friend who's running out of time gave me the 9' 8wt fibreglass steelhead rod he had custom made in Kamloops in 1965; I think he said he paid $90 for it back then. I might try some of my 12' and 13' rods too but that one will be special because it's Rocket's even if it doesn't have a shred of graphite or carbon in it.
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You're talking apples and oranges here. Sounds like you've got yourself a fly rod and reel.
A centerpin reel has no drag system whereas a fly reel does.
It is impossible to fish a fly reel like a centerpin as there is no release.
If your rod says a number followed by "wt." eg. 8wt. It's a fly rod. A fly rod could be used as a pin rod if you REALLY wanted to, but sounds like the stick has some sentimental value to it.
It's the guides which are the problem on the fly rod for pin fishing with mono.
Edit: most guys use 12-15# mono for mainline on pins. If you're just starting I'd recommend 15 max 20#. The stiffer line pays out a little easier.
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Fly rod will be ok to use if it was built as a pin rod.
To be effective as a pin rod you will need an extended cork (fighting butt).
I haven't found the guides to make a big difference. The only time the fly rod guides are a pain, that I've found, is when I triple the rod as a spinning rod and am making overhead casts with spoons - sometimes the line will get jammed in the guides.
That reel however, I would agree with Noah. It appears to be a fly reel, and if it is it will not work as a pin reel. I have tried loosening the drag completely on my fly rods to try and cast spoons on a rough day and it just flat out doesn't work. What does work with a fly rod is to strip out a bunch of line and then cast and let the line go, and the stripping action with a spoon drives fish nuts ;D
Definitely sounds like you have yourself a fly combo, and not a pin combo.
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Thanks guys, info on J Ryall reels is scarce because they've been out of business for awhile but it does have a drag system so the vendor is unintentionaly mis-naming it a pin. It's still a decent buy (new cond), and would be great for piking or flyfishing for carp (I still don't have a large arbor fly reel), but the largest I have just holds an 8 wt + backing..... I think I'm going to back out and not buy any fly gear until I see how my shoulder scope goes this summer.
Edit: I guess I was half asleep when I read the ad, he didn't say it was a cp, but he referred to one he'd shipped, but you know, I still like the look of it so I told him if he can get access to paypal and use mail instead of courier I'd buy it anyway. It's a sickness, I know.
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A centerpin reel has no drag system whereas a fly reel does.
Actually, there are a few centerpins(Ang. Spec, Okuma Sheffield Sirata...) that have a drag system but personally why would you want a drag system on a CP. Most of us that use CP's just for the fact that the fight is direct, one to one and that you are more involved whereas a person would depend on the drag system to do most of the work.
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In another month when all this snow has melted I'll try to find a park or schoolyard that isn't flooded and strap the old Diawa 175 moocher onto a 13' carp rod, take the clicker off and see how this yo-yo cast goes. ;D That reel spins like Taz without the clicker and the drag off. My flyreel guy is going to the post office to get the J Ryall 8 weighed so I figure by the time I mail him payment, then he mails the reel it's end of May, then surgery maybe a month later and 2 or 3 months recovery and I get to punch out streamers, poppers, and mice for big pike in September or October. I don't know anyone who's had a shoulder done like this, but if they want me to strap my arm right down for months it could really cramp my style.
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............or you can turn off the anti-reverse and back-reel......set hook with bail already closed.....switch anti reverse back on while fighting fish.....
I use a 7'0 St Croix Tidemaster w/ a 2500 sized Shimano spin reel and this is what I do.
The more people who frown upon you the better, makes it all the more humorous when you are landing fish and they aren't.
I must admit if I was living here in permanently I would buy a CP for float fishing, but there is pretty much no use for them in Australia. I can take this setup and use it in every environment effectively...float fishing, throwing spoons/spinners, bar fishing...everything.
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Actually, there are a few centerpins(Ang. Spec, Okuma Sheffield Sirata...) that have a drag system but personally why would you want a drag system on a CP. Most of us that use CP's just for the fact that the fight is direct, one to one and that you are more involved whereas a person would depend on the drag system to do most of the work.
A REAL pin has no drag... I rest my case.
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The more people who frown upon you the better, makes it all the more humorous when you are landing fish and they aren't
I don't really think the anglers on here are snobs, or that they do what they do with their gear as a fashion statement. When something works for you, you advocate it and I appreciate the advice. When I started fishing as a tyke in the '50s we used bamboo poles like Huck Finn, with wooden floats and the whole tackle pack was a dollar. In the early '60s we got fibreglass rods and Johnson spincasters and that was a sea-change in casting. Prior to that trolling was done with ancient Shakespeare and Phleuger levelwinds. I have the extruded steel 8' flyrod, (and all his other tackle), that old Jock McGowan used when he was fishing with Grey Owl in the '30s and I'm not scared to use it.... it's our sport and I think we should have all the fun we can with it.
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I don't really think the anglers on here are snobs, or that they do what they do with their gear as a fashion statement. When something works for you, you advocate it and I appreciate the advice. When I started fishing as a tyke in the '50s we used bamboo poles like Huck Finn, with wooden floats and the whole tackle pack was a dollar. In the early '60s we got fibreglass rods and Johnson spincasters and that was a sea-change in casting. Prior to that trolling was done with ancient Shakespeare and Phleuger levelwinds. I have the extruded steel 8' flyrod, (and all his other tackle), that old Jock McGowan used when he was fishing with Grey Owl in the '30s and I'm not scared to use it.... it's our sport and I think we should have all the fun we can with it.
No doubt mate, I don't think anyone here is a snob, just the guys at the river who scoff at someone not using the same type of gear as them! I actually find the discussions here quite refreshing, it's great to be able to read local opinions on the different fisheries without all the bs.
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When is for fun doesn't really matter.