Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trout_Bum on January 03, 2013, 07:46:48 PM
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Does anyone know the projected numbers of returning Steelhead for Lower Mainland rivers?
I am sure this info exists but i can't find it anywhere. What i am looking for is a breakdown of returns for the Vedder, Chehalis, Squamish, etc, of both wild and hatchery. It would be even better if hisorical info can be obtained to see the health of our runs year over year.
Trout Bum
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From a chart I was sent today that runs from 1947 to 1978. Steelhead in 1947 9,000. 62 to 64 returns of 15,000 each year. 1978 500. Numbers changed each year in between these years.
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The info at the following link may be helpful. Click on a stream name below the map, read the information and then back click to the map to check out another stream. It's not up to date but about as good as you'll find online.
http://www.bccf.com/steelhead/watersheds.htm#map-r2-focus
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Thanks Firebird. This is excellent info and gives me close what i was looking for. Pretty depressing how the numbers have declined, but at least there seems to be detailed analysis going on.
TB
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but at least there seems to be detailed analysis going on.
TB
Wow! that statement will make the Province smile :D No offense firebird...
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Thanks Firebird. This is excellent info and gives me close what i was looking for. Pretty depressing how the numbers have declined, but at least there seems to be detailed analysis going on.
TB
Actually, the numbers seem to have picked up again since that information was published. This is speaking in general terms as no real detailed analyses are presently carried out because the funding for the steelhead recovery program was curtailed a few years ago. Let's hope the upswing continues for many years ;D
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Thanks Firebird. This is excellent info and gives me close what i was looking for. Pretty depressing how the numbers have declined, but at least there seems to be detailed analysis going on.
TB
check out the date of the info, last update seems to be 2006. Get involved with some one like the Steelhead Society of BC and you will sse that the province has very little going on with steelhead overall.
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check out the date of the info, last update seems to be 2006. Get involved with some one like the Steelhead Society of BC and you will sse that the province has very little going on with steelhead overall.
Don't forget that the SSBC only focuses on flows with wild only fish.
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Don't forget that the SSBC only focuses on flows with wild only fish.
I believe the SSBC has committed $1000 to the costs of the 2013 Chilliwack River nutrient enrichment program.
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98% of the southcoast rivers have or at one time had hatchery fish.......SSBC has helped many rivers.
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Back on topic here ... I have fished a total of 3 hours this season but know a few anglers that have fished the C-V daily since late November. These guys are as good as you can get regarding catching C-V steelhead, local legends really with a combined several hundred years experience and thousands of fish to their credit.
What they tell me is this is, to date, a very poor year. Rain is falling big time in Chilliwack now and water will rise ... sure hope things pick up after this high water event because if not, I would suggest reconsidering starting broodstock capture of wild fish Jan 15, meaning let the few wild fish in the system now find some sanctuary in the closed area and spawn naturally. Call it a future source of broodstock or better yet, wild fish for the the next generation.
When and if numbers arrive, and angling reports will indicate if it happens, then start collecting wild fish for broodstock. My $ .02
Hope I'm wrong and plenty of wild steelhead show up in our spring counts.
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Back on topic here ... I have fished a total of 3 hours this season but know a few anglers that have fished the C-V daily since late November. These guys are as good as you can get regarding catching C-V steelhead, local legends really with a combined several hundred years experience and thousands of fish to their credit.
What they tell me is this is, to date, a very poor year. Rain is falling big time in Chilliwack now and water will rise ... sure hope things pick up after this high water event because if not, I would suggest reconsidering starting broodstock capture of wild fish Jan 15, meaning let the few wild fish in the system now find some sanctuary in the closed area and spawn naturally. Call it a future source of broodstock or better yet, wild fish for the the next generation.
When and if numbers arrive, and angling reports will indicate if it happens, then start collecting wild fish for broodstock. My $ .02
Hope I'm wrong and plenty of wild steelhead show up in our spring counts.
I think if we do that Dave you will see what has happened on so many Island rivers. Have the stocks rebounded after cutting down on the hatchery program, for example the Cowichan?
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I don't think Dave is suggesting cutting back on hatchery program, just delaying the start of wild broodstock capture until you know the numbers are there to support it on what could be a bad year. Am pretty sure the Cowichan isn't hurting because they cut the hatchery Stealhead program, it's hurting because of a myriad of environmental factors and policy decisions. I would also be very surprised if the wild fish suffered as a result of the end of the hatchery program, after all I presume there is a few more pairs spawning in the wild every year now? It would be good if the wild fish in the Vedder had a bit more protection, it seems disgusting to me that staging wild fish in the upper river are fair game to get repeatedly hooked over and over in the later part of the season.
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It would be good if the wild fish in the Vedder had a bit more protection, it seems disgusting to me that staging wild fish in the upper river are fair game to get repeatedly hooked over and over in the later part of the season.
More than half of the river is closed to fishing...
The river is 80 km's to the lake and 36 km's of that is open to fishing. Most of the wild fish will spawn in the canyon section in the closed area just up from the hatchery.
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So wild fish don't stage between Allison and the fishing boundary prior to spawning? Just think that everyone has probably had a fair crack at these fish by mid April at the latest and they might be better left in peace. I don't see the satisfaction in hooking coloured up wilds that have a been hooked multiple times to be quite honest, I have done it myself and it feels pretty greasy.
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So wild fish don't stage between Allison and the fishing boundary prior to spawning? Just think that everyone has probably had a fair crack at these fish by mid April at the latest and they might be better left in peace. I don't see the satisfaction in hooking coloured up wilds that have a been hooked multiple times to be quite honest, I have done it my self and it feels pretty greasy.
I said "most of the wild fish will spawn in the canyon section in the closed area just up from the hatchery."
There are fresh fish to be had elsewhere in April and May
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More than half of the river is closed to fishing...
Most of the wild fish will spawn in the canyon section in the closed area just up from the hatchery.
Say what? Have you seen steelhead spawning in the canyon above the Chwk hatchery?
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Remember steelhead are not like salmon, they can color up spawn and go back to the ocean for another cycle. Unlike salmon, which die after they spawn.
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Exactly there are fresh fish to be had in lower river areas where there aren't a high concentration of staging wild fish that have already run the gauntlet and deserve a rest.
I said "most of the wild fish will spawn in the canyon section in the closed area just up from the hatchery."
There are fresh fish to be had elsewhere in April and May
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Remember steelhead are not like salmon, they can color up spawn and go back to the ocean for another cycle. Unlike salmon, which die after they spawn.
The less times they get hooked the better odds they have of making it back a second or third time.
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nick there is still staging fish in the rivers I was talking about in April and May. They just have a higher percentage of late run fish so there's more fresh fish around.
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I don't get your point? What does the fact that there are other rivers with fresher fish have to do with my point re the upper Vedder in April?
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If most of the fish in an area are staging then shut it!
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If I am mainly hitting Coloured up fish I will choose not to fish there!!!
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The Vedder has the most pressure so those wild fish deserve the most protection in the later part of the season IMO.
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I don't get your point? What does the fact that there are other rivers with fresher fish have to do with my point re the upper Vedder in April?
If I am mainly hitting Coloured up fish I will choose not to fish there!!!
You answered your own question.
If most of the fish in an area are staging then shut it!
The Vedder has the most pressure so those wild fish deserve the most protection in the later part of the season IMO.
Well I guess it should be shut down in Febuary than huh...
On a side not do you not know how to use the modify function? Or maybe get all your ideas into one post rather than making four consecutive posts.
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Back on topic here ... I have fished a total of 3 hours this season but know a few anglers that have fished the C-V daily since late November. These guys are as good as you can get regarding catching C-V steelhead, local legends really with a combined several hundred years experience and thousands of fish to their credit.
What they tell me is this is, to date, a very poor year. Rain is falling big time in Chilliwack now and water will rise ... sure hope things pick up after this high water event because if not, I would suggest reconsidering starting broodstock capture of wild fish Jan 15, meaning let the few wild fish in the system now find some sanctuary in the closed area and spawn naturally. Call it a future source of broodstock or better yet, wild fish for the the next generation.
When and if numbers arrive, and angling reports will indicate if it happens, then start collecting wild fish for broodstock. My $ .02
Hope I'm wrong and plenty of wild steelhead show up in our spring counts.
Good point for the managers to ponder Dave. A couple of other thoughts ... I have to wonder about the effectiveness of delaying broodstock collection for the purpose of conserving early wild fish. Who's to say that a bunch of the fish eventually collected didn't enter in mid to late December anyway? Do they only collect fish that are chrome as chrome can be or do they take whatever they can when they can just to make sure they reach the quota? The supposedly slightly later running wild broodstock seem to produce plenty of early season returners which may or may not indicate that the parents could have been early returners as well. My $.02
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You answered your own question.
Well I guess it should be shut down in Febuary than huh...
On a side not do you not know how to use the modify function? Or maybe get all your ideas into one post rather than making four consecutive posts.
Completely pointless discussing this with you as you actually don't have a point. Just to clarify mine is that it makes sense to me that portions of rivers with mainly staging, mainly wild fish should be closed to angling earlier than they are currently to prevent needless pin cushioning of wild fish that have already run the gauntlet.
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Nick,
More than half of the river is closed to fishing.
I assume and you should too, that there is some research behind the exact spot they set the boundary at.
There is a reason why they close the river at that point.
By March/ April most of the wild fish are probably above the hatchery already.
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I don't always assume that anything that the powers that be do makes a whole lot of sense to be honest :) If all the wild fish are above the hatchery by then why bother closing limit hole again?
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I have found this years steelhead run is either a late start or just a bad run in general. From the rods I know who are daily fishers, in past years getting many fish to shore every year by this time. they all agree that the fish this year are just not there. not as many sighting of fish caught or retained. Perhaps the weather just hasn't been conducive for the fish to make it into the waters yet. I have put many many days in and by now in past years always have a hatch. however this year has yet to provide much action on my end. And the other good rods have yet to catch a single fish. or just 1 for daily fishing since late nov... I don't know whats up and hope things pick up soon. spring steelheading is always so crowded :-\
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Most (http://openclipart.org/people/dripsandcastle/is_not_3.svg) all
lol...
Reasoning behind the change of upper boundary can be found at:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=19024.0
If anyone is concerned that the upper section is only closed in May to prevent repeat capture of spawning steelhead, then they can express their concerns by contacting:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/contact/
Otherwise this is indeed completely pointless.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
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Kind of goes with the territory.
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Completely pointless discussing this with you as you actually don't have a point. Just to clarify mine is that it makes sense to me that portions of rivers with mainly staging, mainly wild fish should be closed to angling earlier than they are currently to prevent needless pin cushioning of wild fish that have already run the gauntlet.
I said close the river in February because that is approx. when they start pairing up and staging... Get my point now?
Wild fish do not stage specifically in one area of the river.
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Good point for the managers to ponder Dave. A couple of other thoughts ... I have to wonder about the effectiveness of delaying broodstock collection for the purpose of conserving early wild fish. Who's to say that a bunch of the fish eventually collected didn't enter in mid to late December anyway? Do they only collect fish that are chrome as chrome can be or do they take whatever they can when they can just to make sure they reach the quota? The supposedly slightly later running wild broodstock seem to produce plenty of early season returners which may or may not indicate that the parents could have been early returners as well. My $.02
Of course you are right firebird - who knows when collected broodstock actually entered the river. Fish are collected as they are caught with no second guessing or releasing of any wild fish for any reason, ie. size or sexual maturation. One point to consider however is that a high percentage of the wild fish collected are by a few anglers fishing just downstream of the boundary.
Hey, maybe a huge run has just entered the canal and we are simply exercising our fingers with this discussion but regardless of numbers, you and I have to get out fishing together ;D
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I don't always assume that anything that the powers that be do makes a whole lot of sense to be honest :)
On the island they are very effective at closing holding areas. Some river are not even worth fishing, because the open sections of the rivers simply do not hold fish, the fish shoot right through and only start holding in the closing sections.
If you don't believe me, or the "powers that be" that made the closures, you should come out and try it. They aren't dumb and they know where fish will stage.
I have found this years steelhead run is either a late start or just a bad run in general. From the rods I know who are daily fishers, in past years getting many fish to shore every year by this time.
Lastly... as far as what others have been saying about poor returns.. It could be possible they are just missing the fish?
One of my buddies had probably his best December ever, and I would say has been consistently hitting fish.
I went out for a total of 8 hrs when I was back home over the Christmas break and managed a wild on boxing day, so I figured it wasn't all that bad. Got lucky I guess.
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Lastly... as far as what others have been saying about poor returns.. It could be possible they are just missing the fish?
One of my buddies had probably his best December ever, and I would say has been consistently hitting fish.
I went out for a total of 8 hrs when I was back home over the Christmas break and managed a wild on boxing day, so I figured it wasn't all that bad. Got lucky I guess.
I was down there for a while over christmas break and found the fishing to be excellent as well. One of the best early seasons I have seen since I started fishing the river in 1990. Also the most crowded I have seen it this early.
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I'll let someone else tell these fishless rods they're beeks :D
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went fishing once in the ocean and didnt catch anything. there are no fish anymore left in the pacific anyways.
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Taken from Fred's Website.
Last year at this time there were 70 fish weighed in in the Wally Hall Derby. This year there has been 24.
Granted the last fish posted was on the 2nd so its possible they're a little behind on updating the website.
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Taken from Fred's Website.
Last year at this time there were 70 fish weighed in in the Wally Hall Derby. This year there has been 24.
Granted the last fish posted was on the 2nd so its possible they're a little behind on updating the website.
I note that almost half of those fish were recorded in the first week of January last year while there is only the one fish registered so far this year. The water level during that period was between 2.1m and 2.5m at the Crossing whereas it's been between 1.72m and 1.75m during the same period this year. That could at least partly explain the difference. Could also be fewer people weighing-in their fish for whatever reasons.
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On the island they are very effective at closing holding areas. Some river are not even worth fishing, because the open sections of the rivers simply do not hold fish, the fish shoot right through and only start holding in the closing sections.
If you don't believe me, or the "powers that be" that made the closures, you should come out and try it. They aren't dumb and they know where fish will stage.
Lastly... as far as what others have been saying about poor returns.. It could be possible they are just missing the fish?
One of my buddies had probably his best December ever, and I would say has been consistently hitting fish.
I went out for a total of 8 hrs when I was back home over the Christmas break and managed a wild on boxing day, so I figured it wasn't all that bad. Got lucky I guess.
I do understand where nick is coming from. I don't always take everything for granted from the powers at be.
But over the years I've met some interesting and good people in Chilliwack connected to the hatchery and the fisheries.
Hence my confidence is relatively high.
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I note that almost half of those fish were recorded in the first week of January last year while there is only the one fish registered so far this year. The water level during that period was between 2.1m and 2.5m at the Crossing whereas it's been between 1.72m and 1.75m during the same period this year. That could at least partly explain the difference. Could also be fewer people weighing-in their fish for whatever reasons.
The low river level might well be the reason for low returns this year.
When we had the very low level in first half of October last year, coho fishing was very slow, but picked up once rain raised the river level.
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I fished the Quinsam River here in Campbell River through the holidays and have to say the fishing was poor. I hooked 5 fish and 4 of those fish were hatchery summer runs that had been planted in the Campbell.The other one was a chrome wild doe that showed me who was the boss. The river has been high for weeks and those wild fish blast right through the lower river. Heard of another half a dozen winter fish been hooked. Some of these fish were hooked in the closed area by hatchery staff fishing for cutthroat brood stock. So I think water levels have a lot to do with how many fish are caught, at least in the Quinsam.They have closed the upper river above the hatchery from Dec. to June to protect what is left of the run.This closure does not leave a great deal of river to fish.Due to the extensive flooding we had on Vancouver Island in 1989-91 we lost most of our steelhead out of the smaller east side streams from Sayward to Victoria. The Quinsam use to be a medium size river with a step gradient with lots of rearing and holding water in the lower end of the river below the hatchery.After those floods and the years that followed the river is now one shallow gradient with very little holding water. Those flood years were the result of the logging the old growth watershed. Now they are after the second growth like there is no tommorrow. We have had a major flood on this river every year for the last 5yrs. When you stand in the river the gravel washes out from under your feet. The river has no growth on the bottom so you don't need felts to wade with. How long before the steelhead are no more? Did I say anything about cohos. I am not going there. Thank you Timber West.
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I'll let someone else tell these fishless rods they're beeks :D
I told you that today, of course I fit right in too. ;D ;D
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I'll let someone else tell these fishless rods they're beeks :D
Just sharing my experiences, I saw tonnes of fish while down there and even got two on the starvation stick in very limited river time. My intention was not to discredit the observations of others just to share my own.
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Just sharing my experiences, I saw tonnes of fish while down there and even got two on the starvation stick in very limited river time. My intention was not to discredit the observations of others just to share my own.
Same with me... from what I saw, I would have considered the latter part of the month of December not bad.
Like I said, just could have been the area of river... wrong place at the wrong time kinda thing.
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Hey, all's good, just a few grumpy locals not catching fish while others are - just glad it's not me because I hate that ;D Thanks for your comments Pat and Dan. Glad you guys had some good fishing.
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:)I'm a member of the Nicomekl Enhancement Society in Langley and at our latest meeting we were told that we may start raising steelhead, at present we have great returns of coho and springs which feed many of the lower mainland streams, with most in the Surrey/Langley/whiterock watershed.
fish on, Rockon
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:)I'm a member of the Nicomekl Enhancement Society in Langley and at our latest meeting we were told that we may start raising steelhead, at present we have great returns of coho and springs which feed many of the lower mainland streams, with most in the Surrey/Langley/whiterock watershed.
fish on, Rockon
Please keep us informed with this project! Local community invovlement and interest in salmon is key to their urban survival, imo.
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:)I'm a member of the Nicomekl Enhancement Society in Langley and at our latest meeting we were told that we may start raising steelhead, at present we have great returns of coho and springs which feed many of the lower mainland streams, with most in the Surrey/Langley/whiterock watershed.
fish on, Rockon
Right on we did extensive work with you guys back when I was still living down south working for LEPS, great group of guys with an amazing thing going on. Beautiful trail network adjacent to the hatchery as well. Like Dave I am very interested to hear more about your foray into steelhead culture as you move forward.
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Same with me... from what I saw, I would have considered the latter part of the month of December not bad.
Like I said, just could have been the area of river... wrong place at the wrong time kinda thing.
I think I saw you guys, were you and a young lady fishing the back side of Peach by the gravel pit on Christmas Eve? If so I was the guy on the other side chucking the spey and loosing that fish right by the beach.