Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: IronNoggin on November 07, 2012, 10:36:02 AM
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The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday that China is preparing to invest about $100 million in timber assets mainly on Vancouver Island.
The Journal said China’s government wealth fund, the China Investment Corp., is negotiating with Toronto-based Brookfield Asset Management for a 12.5 per cent stake in Island Timberlands, which owns about 254,000 hectares of forest land.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/11/06/china-investment-brookfield.html
Thoughts?
Wondering...
Nog
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Hmmm... parking cash??!! .. okay - just don't start exporting raw logs further east...
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More raw logs going out soon
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They don't want to buy were the pine beetle goes. Harper likes to sell us out and he got voted in. Them logs will be gone so quick it will make your head spin.
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Wow,When the Chinese are done with our province there wont be anything left,kinda like there country!
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Just wondering... if we dont sell our resources....how does Canada make money? From what i've read in the past, Canada has not been the ideal partner for China in lumber trades because they used to buy their lumber from Russia. A lower quality lumber compared to our lumber at a cheaper rate. Sucks that we are losing our resources but whats the difference in trading it to China compared to the USA (through NAFTA)?
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There's a subtle difference between buying our resources and owning our resources. We have control over how much value added processing and job creation goes on in Canada when we're the owners and sellers.
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--BC already allows the export of raw logs so it is only significant if China owned company has enough shares to dictate a lower price to their market.
--Presumably they could sell wood to themselves at a loss thus reducing any taxes they would pay as showing no profit.. heck they probably would get a subsidy. Maybe they could bring in skilled labour to do the logging as there is a shortage of loggers willing to work for minimum wage... or pay for the privilege of working for the company.
--Even if we had laws to more closely scrutinize the forest industry there is no Forest Service left to do it.
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There's a subtle difference between buying our resources and owning our resources. We have control over how much value added processing and job creation goes on in Canada when we're the owners and sellers.
We only have "control" if the end product we produce is more competitively priced than what the global market is selling it for.
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With the lack of Canadians willing to work for mininmum wage, is it wrong to hire future Canadians an opportunity to work these jobs? I dont think you can really blame a company to want to save money on labour costs. If its a big problem then the government should be the one to have some terms which protects the local lumber workforce.
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With the lack of Canadians willing to work for mininmum wage, is it wrong to hire future Canadians an opportunity to work these jobs? I dont think you can really blame a company to want to save money on labour costs. If its a big problem then the government should be the one to have some terms which protects the local lumber workforce.
So wrong on so many levels.
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With the lack of Canadians willing to work for mininmum wage, is it wrong to hire future Canadians an opportunity to work these jobs? I dont think you can really blame a company to want to save money on labour costs. If its a big problem then the government should be the one to have some terms which protects the local lumber workforce.
Rushing to the bottom. No thanks!
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With the lack of Canadians willing to work for mininmum wage, is it wrong to hire future Canadians an opportunity to work these jobs? I dont think you can really blame a company to want to save money on labour costs. If its a big problem then the government should be the one to have some terms which protects the local lumber workforce.
They couldn't buy "the soup" on those wages. So it would shut down the fin industry as an aside.
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--coastal system and private wood has different pricing... in the interior the logging costs are deducted from the stumpage rate...so yes I do blame a company that screws its workers out of wages when in essence we are paying the company the higher wage which should be going to the workers as intended.
--don't get me wrong.. I am not against immigration and allowing people the opportunity to move and work here...I'm not even against contracted workers who come here.. I am against exploitation of these workers.
--I find it ironic that our skilled mine workers and rig workers when they go to other countries get paid premiums... that is higher than they can get paid here... that's part of the reason there is a shortage. If you have to work in a camp then why wouldn't you go to a camp that is safe, reputable and pays a good wage.
--Oh and guess what no matter how much the company screws its workers... we still pay "global economy" prices for the product.
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So wrong on so many levels.
socially wrong but so right economically. If you work for a company, try convince your boss that he should pay higher wages when he can pay less on labour! This is the responsibility of our government if they wanted to discriminate against people who are actually willing to work a lumber job for lets just say 10 dollars an hour. Its actually a pretty common practice that farms in BC are hiring latin american workers to work their farms because no local would be willing to work a farm job for 10 dollars.
From the perspective of a business owner that wants to be competative in the global market, it's the fault of the locals who aren't willing to work for those dollars. Many of these labour jobs requires "basic" skill since the higher end jobs are not being threatened by immigrants. Personally I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. The immigrants are usually just happy that they even got the job so they put in extra effort. The skill level of the local might be better but with proper coordination the work from an immigrant is equally as good. For example, there is a reason why most dry wall boarders (easy labour work) are east indian and the finishers (requires some experience and skill) are usually local workers.
They couldn't buy "the soup" on those wages. So it would shut down the fin industry as an aside.
You are right..the labour workers coming from China cannot afford the soup, but a good 10 percent of China (upper class) which equals to around close to 100 million people can afford it. I guess it makes sense that some people are bitter than 10 percent are buying out all the land/resources while the other 90 percent are taking up all the jobs.
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The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday that China is preparing to invest about $100 million in timber assets mainly on Vancouver Island.
The Journal said China’s government wealth fund, the China Investment Corp., is negotiating with Toronto-based Brookfield Asset Management for a 12.5 per cent stake in Island Timberlands, which owns about 254,000 hectares of forest land.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/11/06/china-investment-brookfield.html
Thoughts?
Wondering...
Nog
As someone who has worked in the financial industry a long time, and played the game from both the investment side and company side, I can say with confidence that a foreign financial investor holding a 12.5% stake is usually more worried about getting ripped off than trying to have any kind of meaningful influence on the company they invest in. I have seen many financial investors with 30~40% stake having little effective influence in companies they invest in and I doubt that this Chinese sovereign fund will be any different in this regard. Financial investors typically look to maximize returns over short to medium horizon and typically don't have the resources and will to be deeply involved in company operations. Due to their bureaucratic setup and government control, sovereign funds are more so than leading private equity funds and are even less effective in this regard.
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socially wrong but so right economically. If you work for a company, try convince your boss that he should pay higher wages when he can pay less on labour! This is the responsibility of our government if they wanted to discriminate against people who are actually willing to work a lumber job for lets just say 10 dollars an hour. Its actually a pretty common practice that farms in BC are hiring latin american workers to work their farms because no local would be willing to work a farm job for 10 dollars.
From the perspective of a business owner that wants to be competative in the global market, it's the fault of the locals who aren't willing to work for those dollars. Many of these labour jobs requires "basic" skill since the higher end jobs are not being threatened by immigrants. Personally I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. The immigrants are usually just happy that they even got the job so they put in extra effort. The skill level of the local might be better but with proper coordination the work from an immigrant is equally as good. For example, there is a reason why most dry wall boarders (easy labour work) are east indian and the finishers (requires some experience and skill) are usually local workers.
You are right..the labour workers coming from China cannot afford the soup, but a good 10 percent of China (upper class) which equals to around close to 100 million people can afford it. I guess it makes sense that some people are bitter than 10 percent are buying out all the land/resources while the other 90 percent are taking up all the jobs.
LOL you just worked your self full circle, its why the Chinese were brought in for the railroad
At best it can be described as maximizing a profit margin, and on the other end of the spectrum...its called exploitation
In our country..local market says you must pay x amount to perform a task or no one will do it, if someone brings you in to work below standards, for less money...again its called exploitation.
In the case of the local berry market, if you flood a market to the point you drive the market price down (basic supply and demand) and need to exploit imported labour to maintain any kind of a profit...who's fault is that? How many berry fields have popped up in the last 10 years?
"I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. "
So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!!
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LOL you just worked your self full circle, its why the Chinese were brought in for the railroad
At best it can be described as maximizing a profit margin, and on the other end of the spectrum...its called exploitation
In our country..local market says you must pay x amount to perform a task or no one will do it, if someone brings you in to work below standards, for less money...again its called exploitation.
In the case of the local berry market, if you flood a market to the point you drive the market price down (basic supply and demand) and need to exploit imported labour to maintain any kind of a profit...who's fault is that? How many berry fields have popped up in the last 10 years?
"I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. "
So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!!
I'm not sure how you created a relationship between Chinese being brought in to build the rail road and them working the mining/lumber jobs in BC today.
1. Chinese that were brought in those days, were treated like slaves and was provided a bare minimium for the work that they were performing. Also safety for these workers were probably one of the lowest priorities for these companies. That is exploitation.
2. People brought in from Africa to do slave work in the Americas was also an example of exploitation.
3. In Canada, there is no law that states that specific jobs will pay x amount to perform. There is however a minimum wage that prevents employers from paying an amount under that requirement.
In the case of the local berry market, where prices are pushed downward due to an increase in supply, that might not be the best for the local farmers but as a consumer i am not complaining about paying lower prices. Actually if you had any idea, these imported labours from South/Central America or Asia are not being exploited because they are still being paid according to our laws. Sounds to me like someone is bitter about more competition.
"So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!! "
Before you get too ahead of yourself with assumptions, I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and close to 100 an hour for plumbing (unless offcoarse there is a set contract prior). So yes I do have a problem when people are being paid 50 dollars an hour and spend a part of that hour walking around smoking/chatting/or out for a walk. For the same job, I could hire a foreign worker that is willing to do it for 20 -25 dollars an hour, yet they will work harder and be a little more appreciative about getting the job. I'm sure not every "western" labourer are slackers but i've seen a lot. Just to point things out that there is no set price that says a framer has to be paid 50 dollars and a plumber has to be paid 100 dollars an hour.
"What the true height of irony is that its not hte caucasions doing the exploiting this time around... so cheers LOL!!"
Way to state the obvious.. I dont think you'd have 100 million dollars of cash to pay when you are being exploited?? But it's good that you find it funny because whether you like it or not China is going to buy the mines + lumber here and hire workers that are willing to work for 10 dollars an hour (minimum) wage!! I'm sure if local workers would work for that much they would be hired over the foreigners but it's too bad the locals are too spoiled by unions and other labour organizations and feel that they should get paid more. If your job was a garbage man, i would say your salary should be minimum wage but somehow City of Vancouver pays 20 dollars an hour for that job! There is something in the indian culture called, Karma. I guess what comes around goes around!! You exploit others... and now you end up with no job! LOL! 8)
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As an immigrant myself (excuse any language mistakes, I have only been in the country for 10 months) it is heartwarming to see that in general Canadians offer fair wages to anyone that wants to do the job.
When looking at what Ed is saying that it is okay that people are being brought in that are willing to work for the bare minimum, there is a certain point that economically makes sense. However it is unfair, and it doenst matter which way you put it, to let workers who have to live in in Canada and who have to build a future over here (lets say buy a home) compete with temp workers that are set to return to their home country. So yes by bringing temporary people in the country, they will do the work for less because after the work is done they go back to their third world country and live relatively well with the money they saved up. For a Canadian it doesn't work..
The second thing, and Im guessing Ed is more Chinese than Canadian, is the acceptance of 90% being poor and 10% percent being rich. This is also how China got big in the first place. By letting legions of people (children included) work in horrible circumstances to let a small percentage of the population get rich. Western countries refused to adopt this horrible way of dealing with its people, so the companies who don't care about human rights went to China to maximize profit..
This is exactly what developed countries are trying to avoid or reduce. Wealth for everyone without suffering or exploitation of a group of people (normally working class or immigrants) is the goal.
So yes, in the end if a country wants to buy up an industry and wants to reduce the standard of living for the locals due to unfair competition it is a bad cause and should be stopped..
Edd will probably disagree, but then again you cant really blame him ;)
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As an immigrant myself (excuse any language mistakes, I have only been in the country for 10 months) it is heartwarming to see that in general Canadians offer fair wages to anyone that wants to do the job.
When looking at what Ed is saying that it is okay that people are being brought in that are willing to work for the bare minimum, there is a certain point that economically makes sense. However it is unfair, and it doenst matter which way you put it, to let workers who have to live in in Canada and who have to build a future over here (lets say buy a home) compete with temp workers that are set to return to their home country. So yes by bringing temporary people in the country, they will do the work for less because after the work is done they go back to their third world country and live relatively well with the money they saved up. For a Canadian it doesn't work..
The second thing, and Im guessing Ed is more Chinese than Canadian, is the acceptance of 90% being poor and 10% percent being rich. This is also how China got big in the first place. By letting legions of people (children included) work in horrible circumstances to let a small percentage of the population get rich. Western countries refused to adopt this horrible way of dealing with its people, so the companies who don't care about human rights went to China to maximize profit..
This is exactly what developed countries are trying to avoid or reduce. Wealth for everyone without suffering or exploitation of a group of people (normally working class or immigrants) is the goal.
So yes, in the end if a country wants to buy up an industry and wants to reduce the standard of living for the locals due to unfair competition it is a bad cause and should be stopped..
Edd will probably disagree, but then again you cant really blame him ;)
I agree with you that China's economy developed due to the "cheap" labour that is available there. It is also because of the simple rules of supply and demand. In a country where there is no minimum wage, there are so many workers available to work at a much lower rate. Often you would see 4-5 sales person working at a store in Chin vs 1-2 people working at a store in Canada with a higher wage but since companies have to pay minimum wage they hire less to cut costs. With China having 1.3 billiong people it is a little tougher to manage than Canada with approx 30 million people. If China implimented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competative. I'm pretty sure a job is better than no job. Nobody in this world is perfect and that applies to the government as well. China is plagued with overpopulation but compared to countries like India where there 29.8 % living below the poverty line and with about a literacy rate of 61% (CIA World Factbook), China isn't too bad with a 92.2 percent literacy rate and 13.4 percent below the poverty line. I compare the two countries because Peoples Republic of China was created in 1949 and India got their independence around 1947 or so.
Developed countries avoid or reduce the exploitation of a group of people because they have already done their share of exploitatoins to get to where they are today. Europe strived during the colonization period where they pretty much looted the valuables from other countries (check out the British Museum) as well as exploiting other countries (trading opium to China, British East India Company, and etc). Now that they need to rely on themselves, look at the European economy now, Greece, Italy, Spain, and etc are some of the countries that are being bailed out or about to go bankrupt. In the USA (another developed country), they shipped slaves in from Africa to do all the hard work paying them barely anything. Even after slavery was ended, i'm sure African Americans were not being paid the same salary for the same job compared to a caucasian. Canada was a little less involved in the slave trade but Chinese people were sent here to help build the rail roads at a bare minimal and were treated like slaves.
Secondly, you guessed wrong I've been in Canada for over 20+ years and is a Canadian citizen but with Chinese decent. Even though I grew up here, i maintained my chinese values over the years that it is important to work hard. My family did not immigrate to Canada expecting a free ride. With most people working 8-10 hour shifts a day, we worked 12-16 hours a day to make up for the language barrier we had when we first immigrated. But hey! it was definetly worth it considering the lifestyle i am living today! As a general contractor, I hire people based on the amount of skill they provide to the job. I pay labourers that clean up and pick up garbage 16-20 dollars an hour as compared to a framer 50 dollars an hour. If I really looked hard i'm sure I could get someone to pick up the garbage for 10 dollars an hour but I like to have loyalty to my guys. The point is, if you go to school and get more skills, you are worth 50 dollars an hour. Coming to Canada isn't an excuse for people to become lazy and end up collecting money from the government. There are far too many people that come to Canada with the mindset of having a easier life, as well as people illegally immigrating here with fake statuses. Therefore if you lived in Canada over the years and now have to compete against workers that barely had any education for low skill jobs, then honestly it was your own fault that you didn't take advantage of being a Canadian. Trust me, immigrant workers from third world countries probably had a tougher life than people living in Canada (not everybody gets to go to school in third world countries vs Canadians). If you just came here as an immigrant, instead of feeling bitter about other immigrants getting work at a minimum wage, you should feel grateful to be in this country period!
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I agree with you that China's economy developed due to the "cheap" labour that is available there. It is also because of the simple rules of supply and demand. In a country where there is no minimum wage, there are so many workers available to work at a much lower rate. Often you would see 4-5 sales person working at a store in Chin vs 1-2 people working at a store in Canada with a higher wage but since companies have to pay minimum wage they hire less to cut costs. With China having 1.3 billiong people it is a little tougher to manage than Canada with approx 30 million people. If China implimented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competative. I'm pretty sure a job is better than no job. Nobody in this world is perfect and that applies to the government as well. China is plagued with overpopulation but compared to countries like India where there 29.8 % living below the poverty line and with about a literacy rate of 61% (CIA World Factbook), China isn't too bad with a 92.2 percent literacy rate and 13.4 percent below the poverty line. I compare the two countries because Peoples Republic of China was created in 1949 and India got their independence around 1947 or so.
Developed countries avoid or reduce the exploitation of a group of people because they have already done their share of exploitatoins to get to where they are today. Europe strived during the colonization period where they pretty much looted the valuables from other countries (check out the British Museum) as well as exploiting other countries (trading opium to China, British East India Company, and etc). Now that they need to rely on themselves, look at the European economy now, Greece, Italy, Spain, and etc are some of the countries that are being bailed out or about to go bankrupt. In the USA (another developed country), they shipped slaves in from Africa to do all the hard work paying them barely anything. Even after slavery was ended, i'm sure African Americans were not being paid the same salary for the same job compared to a caucasian. Canada was a little less involved in the slave trade but Chinese people were sent here to help build the rail roads at a bare minimal and were treated like slaves.
Secondly, you guessed wrong I've been in Canada for over 20+ years and is a Canadian citizen but with Chinese decent. Even though I grew up here, i maintained my chinese values over the years that it is important to work hard. My family did not immigrate to Canada expecting a free ride. With most people working 8-10 hour shifts a day, we worked 12-16 hours a day to make up for the language barrier we had when we first immigrated. But hey! it was definetly worth it considering the lifestyle i am living today! As a general contractor, I hire people based on the amount of skill they provide to the job. I pay labourers that clean up and pick up garbage 16-20 dollars an hour as compared to a framer 50 dollars an hour. If I really looked hard i'm sure I could get someone to pick up the garbage for 10 dollars an hour but I like to have loyalty to my guys. The point is, if you go to school and get more skills, you are worth 50 dollars an hour. Coming to Canada isn't an excuse for people to become lazy and end up collecting money from the government. There are far too many people that come to Canada with the mindset of having a easier life, as well as people illegally immigrating here with fake statuses. Therefore if you lived in Canada over the years and now have to compete against workers that barely had any education for low skill jobs, then honestly it was your own fault that you didn't take advantage of being a Canadian. Trust me, immigrant workers from third world countries probably had a tougher life than people living in Canada (not everybody gets to go to school in third world countries vs Canadians). If you just came here as an immigrant, instead of feeling bitter about other immigrants getting work at a minimum wage, you should feel grateful to be in this country period!
"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.
"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.
Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.
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-- "I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards."
--That's just what China is asking for in the free trade agreement they just cant trust Canada labour laws or left leaning unions.... they have such a good system in China they want to ensure their workers are treated the same way in Canada... ie same wages and benefits they would get in China and nothing less for all products being shipped to China.
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"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.
"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.
Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.
I dont think China pegging the dollar was to lower its value vs the US dollar. Any introductory Economics course would explain that lower currency value = higher exports. If the Chinese dollar was worth more it would be more expensive for countries to trade with them and hurt their trade. Also why should they operate like the rest of the world? It is pretty clear the country that has the "power" makes the rules because nobody is forcing anybody to trade with China. Actually if it was free market in Canada, then technically there should be little or no government interventions when China makes a bid on a piece of land or resources.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp#axzz2D1ILLate
It's true that a lot of people are suffering in China still but at least things are improving. Having such a high population has it's pros and cons but at least with a growing economy the opportunities are out there. Its not exploitations when you have only n amount of jobs and there are close to 800,000,000 people available to work. Canada can't even provide everybody a job with a 30 million total population.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2095rank.html?countryName=China&countryCode=ch®ionCode=eas&rank=1#ch
Percentage wise there are a lot more poor people than the rich but 10 percent (upper class) of China is over 100,000,000 people. This is why a good portion of the high end real estate in Vancouver is owned by new chinese immigrants. It's hard to be judgemental towards the Chinese government's method on how to govern a country when our government isn't the best either. Last time i checked China is one of the 5 perminent countries on the UN security council while we didn't even make the cut.
http://dougsaunders.net/2010/10/canada-united-nations-security-council-harper/
I'm not sure where you live but framers in the lower mainland Vancouver, Richmond, West Vancouver, North Vancouver, and etc charge $50 dollars an hour. If you work under someone then obviously that person would make a portion of the 50. Also framers in "bigger" cities tend to build more complicated houses which requires skills that cannot be replaced with cheaper chinese labour. Bow windows, barrelled ceilings, hand-cut roofs are all details that again require skills/experience. This is mainly because most of the housing in China are formed with concrete and not wood frame so they aren't as familiar.
Mining is labour intensive job and requires experience, it is not considered a "skilled position" as to a Geotech Engineer or a doctor. Most people that get doctor degrees in Asia are not even recognoized in Canada. This applies to engineering as well. Mining jobs are accepted from other countries and in the case of mining there are some workers (China) that are more experienced and qualified that are willing to work for less than the Canadian counter part. Even with the backlashes like the shark fin cause, it wont be doing much.....
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1291856--b-c-court-says-unions-can-see-work-permits-for-chinese-miners
Actually what you truly believe in is the exact opposite of what is actually happening. China is the top exporting country and makes a good portion of all the goods in the world, do you honestly think Canada can impose "regulations" on country they import from??? :-[ China on the other hand has the power to make rules to make sure they get what they want.....this isnt the mid 1950s anymore....
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"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.
"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.
Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.
Every country has what you suggest is "exploitation". This happens because there are more workers than there are jobs so the power is with the employer. Even in North America there are levels of "exploitation" in the market place when the unemployment rate drops to below 5%.
Imagine what would happen with the oil workers in Alberta if the price of oil dropped dramatically and much of the industry shut down. You would have people who had been earning $40/hour happy to earn $10 an hour just to have an income. On a different level is exactly what is happening in China. Their economy is growing however there are so many people that are looking for better paying jobs and are thrilled to be making $10 per day rather than the $1 per day they normally may be earning.
I also don't think you are recognizing the relevance of a wage in China compared to their cost of living. Rather than looking at what they earn per hour you need to look at the purchasing power of their dollar versus ours.
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Every country has what you suggest is "exploitation". This happens because there are more workers than there are jobs so the power is with the employer. Even in North America there are levels of "exploitation" in the market place when the unemployment rate drops to below 5%.
Imagine what would happen with the oil workers in Alberta if the price of oil dropped dramatically and much of the industry shut down. You would have people who had been earning $40/hour happy to earn $10 an hour just to have an income. On a different level is exactly what is happening in China. Their economy is growing however there are so many people that are looking for better paying jobs and are thrilled to be making $10 per day rather than the $1 per day they normally may be earning.
I also don't think you are recognizing the relevance of a wage in China compared to their cost of living. Rather than looking at what they earn per hour you need to look at the purchasing power of their dollar versus ours.
Totally agree that you need to take a look at the purchasing power of their dollar. In China you can get a meal for under a dollar Canadian, where as in Canada if you want to get fast food it will cost almost 10 dollars for a combo. Making 10 dollar a day is a little extreme, but i'm sure when the miners come to Canada, the minimum wage willl still be in place. I dont think any miners in China will be making close to $60 RMB an hour + a much safer working environment in Canada. For these workers they will actually be happy to have a job where as a lot of the current oil rig/mining workers are often depressed in those working conditions and end up using drugs.
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I dont think any miners in China will be making close to $60 RMB an hour + a much safer working environment in Canada. For these workers they will actually be happy to have a job where as a lot of the current oil rig/mining workers are often depressed in those working conditions and end up using drugs.
That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.
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That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.
But you have to admit that it does happen, even if it is only on a small scale.
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That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.
Speaking of opium, China should thank the British for the fair trade they provided by giving China opium for silk, resources, and etc. I wonder what would happen today if Afghanistan was trading opium to Canada for lumber. It's very insulting to Canadian oil and mine workers but sadly its the truth. Im sure there are people who aren't abusing drugs and alcohol but it's a fact that a good portion do. I'm sure if those miners/oil rig workers are making 10 dollars an hour like the Chinese miners, there wont be extra cash on their hands to spend on drugs. Problem solved!
Also it is not true that if you place a bunch of men together with money and time on their hands there will be drugs and alcohol use. There are many cases where a bunch of men can just work with the main goal of supporting their family. Drugs/alcohol use are often connected to bad husbands/fathers. In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.
Ask any Canadian if they would be happy to work in Northern BC and make $10 dollars an hour, then go ask a immigrant Chinese miner how they feel about making $10 dollars an hour. These miners from China are grateful that Canada is allowing them an opportunity to work here because the conditions here are a lot better than in China. Therefore it is not very ridiculous.
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Speaking of opium, China should thank the British for the fair trade they provided by giving China opium for silk, resources, and etc. I wonder what would happen today if Afghanistan was trading opium to Canada for lumber. It's very insulting to Canadian oil and mine workers but sadly its the truth. Im sure there are people who aren't abusing drugs and alcohol but it's a fact that a good portion do. I'm sure if those miners/oil rig workers are making 10 dollars an hour like the Chinese miners, there wont be extra cash on their hands to spend on drugs. Problem solved!
Also it is not true that if you place a bunch of men together with money and time on their hands there will be drugs and alcohol use. There are many cases where a bunch of men can just work with the main goal of supporting their family. Drugs/alcohol use are often connected to bad husbands/fathers. In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.
Ask any Canadian if they would be happy to work in Northern BC and make $10 dollars an hour, then go ask a immigrant Chinese miner how they feel about making $10 dollars an hour. These miners from China are grateful that Canada is allowing them an opportunity to work here because the conditions here are a lot better than in China. Therefore it is not very ridiculous.
Ed, what do you do for a living?
Because there are drug users in every group/industry be it labour financial or anything even immigrants.
Your comments are not only presumptuous, they are offensive. Please stop generalizing any group (ethnic, class, etc)
If you knew what it means to be a true Canadian you would understand this is the reason many "Chinese minerS" or any other immigrants come to Canada. To not be judged by there class or ethnic backgrounds.
Here, in Canada everybody is set as equal under the law.
And just so we are clear, immigrants are paid the same in the oil Nd gas industry as Canadians.
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In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.
Actually, it was the local Chinese who imported the raw opium for processing in their opium factories here in BC that supplied the opium to the parlors, the community and the railway crews. It's well documented because it was legal and they paid licence fees to the BC government. The Chinese have never had a problem exploiting their own citizens and apparently they still don't.
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I think you guys' arguments are not even touching the core of the problem.
Which is.
Greed.
Most successful countires in the world today understand one thing.
Love your neighbour as much as you love yourself.
North America and China are both great in exploitation of their own people.
They just do it differently and because it has become standard people don't see it as such.
Industrial elites in China and North America could give a rat's a.s about people in their own communities.
If in small town you own a factory that employs and provides livelihood to 50% of the town, once you move your factory you have devastated the community.
You don't give a damn because you will move out of the community.
That's how so many towns have been ruined. And through over exploitation of resources.
Once the world opens the door to you, you want to feed the world.
My hope is that the small movement towards localized economies is going to take root and people are going to understand that cheaper doesn't always mean cheaper because it's going to cost you everything in the long run.
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Let's breakdown what these big bad companies are........Companies are "machines" built in order to provide an investment return for their shareholders. The shareholder/investors are ordinary folks like us who own shares in our RRSP's, pensions and savings plans. If our investments don't grow it will effect the type of retirement income we end up with. If an investor is losing money on their investment they need the company to do what ever is necessary to cut their losses.
Call it greed, or call it good investing, it's a good thing. It's what drives the very jobs we have, our lifestyle and the wealth we build. Along the way there are hopefully more winners than losers.
I kinda get tired of hearing about the big bad companies. As long as a company is making money it will exist. If a company gets shut down it's because it wasn't going to last anyway due to the fact it was likely losing money....
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Let's breakdown what these big bad companies are........Companies are "machines" built in order to provide an investment return for their shareholders. The shareholder/investors are ordinary folks like us who own shares in our RRSP's, pensions and savings plans. If our investments don't grow it will effect the type of retirement income we end up with. If an investor is losing money on their investment they need the company to do what ever is necessary to cut their losses.
Call it greed, or call it good investing, it's a good thing. It's what drives the very jobs we have, our lifestyle and the wealth we build. Along the way there are hopefully more winners than losers.
I kinda get tired of hearing about the big bad companies. As long as a company is making money it will exist. If a company gets shut down it's because it wasn't going to last anyway due to the fact it was likely losing money....
alwaysfishin,
You are a child of modern economics. I don't doubt your knowledge.
It's just that modern economics is a crock and we are all being sold ideas that, I believe, are false.
But if you are baby boomer, you've lived in the wealthies generation and done well for yourself.
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Ed, what do you do for a living?
Because there are drug users in every group/industry be it labour financial or anything even immigrants.
Your comments are not only presumptuous, they are offensive. Please stop generalizing any group (ethnic, class, etc)
If you knew what it means to be a true Canadian you would understand this is the reason many "Chinese minerS" or any other immigrants come to Canada. To not be judged by there class or ethnic backgrounds.
Here, in Canada everybody is set as equal under the law.
And just so we are clear, immigrants are paid the same in the oil Nd gas industry as Canadians.
Like i said in my post , there is a good portion of people in the industry (Not everybody) that end up with drug/alcohol abuse. I'm not sure how you view drugs but in my mind it is a problem. Im sure there are drug users in every type of profession but it's actually a growing problem in the oil rigs/mines. Personally living in beautiful Vancouver, it would be pretty depressing having to work at the oil rigs/mines.
I think providing a better lifestyle for these miner's families is the main concern. Im pretty sure worrying about being judged isn't their main concern.
I'm not sure if there are foreign workers in the oil/gas industry but these foreign miners are actually getting paid less than other Canadians. This news source says they are getting paid 10-17 dollar per hour less.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/11/25/bc-mine-closure-coleman.html
I'm not sure what world you live in but thinking that everybody is treated equal because it is set in our "laws" is just pure ignorance. It's still true that in many workplaces, even though companies aren't allowed to openly discriminate, there are still salary differences between even male/female. I remember a few years back one of my professors(woman) told us that she applied for a job at UBC but in the end, a man was hired and was given a higher pay than what she was offered.
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Actually, it was the local Chinese who imported the raw opium for processing in their opium factories here in BC that supplied the opium to the parlors, the community and the railway crews. It's well documented because it was legal and they paid licence fees to the BC government. The Chinese have never had a problem exploiting their own citizens and apparently they still don't.
And I wonder how Chinese people got exposed to opium....go read about the Opium Wars. Chinese people during that time didn't have too many "rights" let alone import goods ? I wonder who gave the go ahead to import opium....
There are bad people in every race/culture/etc. But history tells us that White people love exploiting other races and some "rednecks" still do.
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I think you guys' arguments are not even touching the core of the problem.
Which is.
Greed.
Most successful countires in the world today understand one thing.
Love your neighbour as much as you love yourself.
North America and China are both great in exploitation of their own people.
They just do it differently and because it has become standard people don't see it as such.
Industrial elites in China and North America could give a rat's a.s about people in their own communities.
If in small town you own a factory that employs and provides livelihood to 50% of the town, once you move your factory you have devastated the community.
You don't give a damn because you will move out of the community.
That's how so many towns have been ruined. And through over exploitation of resources.
Once the world opens the door to you, you want to feed the world.
My hope is that the small movement towards localized economies is going to take root and people are going to understand that cheaper doesn't always mean cheaper because it's going to cost you everything in the long run.
I think you pretty much just explained the whole idea of capitalism! Before when USA 's economy was mainly based on manufacturing and made things, it pushed them to take over the UK as the world's superpower. Now because of globalization + improvements in technology (internet) etc, many of these jobs have moved offshore. A great example is Detroit, once the automobile capital of the world. Now these jobs are in China and other countries that have cheaper labour.
But in the case of the mining industry, these companies are probably hirnig foreign workers because it will lower costs so they can be more competative with other companies around the world. Increasing the salary of these jobs will prevent companies from hiring more (more expensive) therefore less jobs available. We are going through a recesssion right now and if these companies go under, we could lose even more jobs or else the government wouldn't be allowing the idea of foreign workers.
The only way your hope will be true is if communities isolate themselves from the rest of the world therefore taking away competition. But it's pretty hard to do that with the technology that is available to us today. It's also important that you dont forget that we pay a lower price as consumers too when companies have lower costs even though they are also making a bigger profit margin as well.
Maybe it's time for socialism?
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Wow, thank you for your refreshing views.
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I think you pretty much just explained the whole idea of capitalism! Before when USA 's economy was mainly based on manufacturing and made things, it pushed them to take over the UK as the world's superpower. Now because of globalization + improvements in technology (internet) etc, many of these jobs have moved offshore. A great example is Detroit, once the automobile capital of the world. Now these jobs are in China and other countries that have cheaper labour.
But in the case of the mining industry, these companies are probably hirnig foreign workers because it will lower costs so they can be more competative with other companies around the world. Increasing the salary of these jobs will prevent companies from hiring more (more expensive) therefore less jobs available. We are going through a recesssion right now and if these companies go under, we could lose even more jobs or else the government wouldn't be allowing the idea of foreign workers.
The only way your hope will be true is if communities isolate themselves from the rest of the world therefore taking away competition. But it's pretty hard to do that with the technology that is available to us today. It's also important that you dont forget that we pay a lower price as consumers too when companies have lower costs even though they are also making a bigger profit margin as well.
Maybe it's time for socialism?
Ed, you hit the nail on the head with the isolation. Best economies today try to guard themselves from fluctuations in the world economy. Best are the most stable economies. I don't mean the biggest.
You can't isolate yourself completely but you can draw on your strengths. You need to trade and be a citizen of the world, but you need to make sure that your citizens are strong economically.
I would rather call it localization, than isolation.
You have to think locally. Period.
I don't think it's time for socialism. Socialism is not based on reality, it's based on a sci-fi.
Consumer education is most important.
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Ed, you hit the nail on the head with the isolation. Best economies today try to guard themselves from fluctuations in the world economy. Best are the most stable economies. I don't mean the biggest.
You can't isolate yourself completely but you can draw on your strengths. You need to trade and be a citizen of the world, but you need to make sure that your citizens are strong economically.
I would rather call it localization, than isolation.
You have to think locally. Period.
I don't think it's time for socialism. Socialism is not based on reality, it's based on a sci-fi.
Consumer education is most important.
I agree with you that some form of isolation or localization is important for a healthy economy. Without some sort of government intervention the idea of a completely free market is rather scary. Many developing countries have created trade barriers/duties on certain industries while they are still underdeveloped and slowly cut down on intervention as the industry matures. Even in China today, foreign goods that are imported are often subject to higher taxes which promotes your idea of purchasing local goods. A pretty good example is the automobile industry in China. Cars that are made outside of China cost 1.5 times - 2 times more than a BMW made in the Chinese factories.
Personally I think the biggest weakness is Canada's economy also because we have a relatively low population. It's definetly one of the best features of Canada but at the same time we dont have the labour force to support various types of industries to be self dependent. We have also created a dependence on selling our resources since Canada is considered a "staples" economy which in the long run doesn't look too promising.
I believe that Canada today have more socialist features than even socialist countries like China. Public healthcare, education, and etc are some of the fine features we have in Canada. Also the rich gets taxed a lot more in Canada than our USA neighbors.
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While I will say I agree a local based economy may be the best option. Although we would have to Learn to do without many luxuries ( bananas come to mind). Supporting foreign workers doing local jobs cheaper is all part of globalization.
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While I will say I agree a local based economy may be the best option. Although we would have to Learn to do without many luxuries ( bananas come to mind). Supporting foreign workers doing local jobs cheaper is all part of globalization.
Local economy doesn't mean you don't import and buy things you don't have and can't produce.
Local economy means that you don't import what you can produce just because it's little cheaper. And you stimulate producers to produce more by reducing reduntant imports.
If we didn't import lemons and the market was scarce, I bet you there would be many new lemon producers. And they would have viable businesses because they would make money.
It also means you eat seasonal food. Fruits out of season are awful.
It also means you don't import cheap slave labour so you can make more money.
Everyone in the society, from the rich to the poor have to think local, otherwise it doesn't work.
Unfortunately these changes can't be all made overnight and everyone is affraid of them.
That's why politicians don't even bother implementing and testing new ideas.
North american farmers are in trouble and need help. They will not get it from the government or the biotech industry. They need our (buyers) help.
Subsidies are also killing the market. Subsidies should be illegal. They devalue goods and make us forget the value of things.
Government destroyed the North american farmer by giving them financial injection and subsidising them for doing a bad job or producing what wasn't in demand.
Now majority of the farmers are addicts and depend on the government handouts for survival.
anyway, this is a fishing web site :D :D
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--I think some are forgetting about the Social Contract with these companies.. They preach giving lower taxes, less government and reduced
-- royalties in exchange for providing jobs..
--Our BC and Fed government have bent over giving these companies what they want... all I'm asking is that the companies at least live up to their part of the bargain.
--I find it amazing that when we had rules... like on a tree farm license you used to have to mill the wood you cut and the allowable cut was determined on a renewable basis and must be balanced within 5 years... we had a mill here in Okanagan "Falls... once these rules changed.. that is a transfer of the allowable annual cut to another mill in kamloops the Okanagan Falls mill closed..never to be seen again.
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Local economy doesn't mean you don't import and buy things you don't have and can't produce.
Local economy means that you don't import what you can produce just because it's little cheaper. And you stimulate producers to produce more by reducing reduntant imports.
If we didn't import lemons and the market was scarce, I bet you there would be many new lemon producers. And they would have viable businesses because they would make money.
It also means you eat seasonal food. Fruits out of season are awful.
It also means you don't import cheap slave labour so you can make more money.
Everyone in the society, from the rich to the poor have to think local, otherwise it doesn't work.
Unfortunately these changes can't be all made overnight and everyone is affraid of them.
That's why politicians don't even bother implementing and testing new ideas.
North american farmers are in trouble and need help. They will not get it from the government or the biotech industry. They need our (buyers) help.
Subsidies are also killing the market. Subsidies should be illegal. They devalue goods and make us forget the value of things.
Government destroyed the North american farmer by giving them financial injection and subsidising them for doing a bad job or producing what wasn't in demand.
Now majority of the farmers are addicts and depend on the government handouts for survival.
anyway, this is a fishing web site :D :D
Well everything in the environment are somewhat connected with each other, whether or not its farming/mining/lumber/fishing, so its interesting to hear from different point of views. I think being part of the WTO, prevents us from creating regulations in trade. Unless offcoarse in the example of beef, if there is a ecoli or mad cow outbreak then countries have the right to stop trade. I think in reality we either be part of the globalized economy or decide to have Protectionism/isolationism/etc. The biggest risk of Canada doing this unlike the USA (when they did it in the early 1900s), is that we dont make anything. From electronics to automobile (parts like tires, etc) to even clothing etc, we rely heavily on imports. Also the costs of creating new industries are also really high therefore governments tend to stay away from that. There have been examples of countries in south america that tried to create new industires with government subsidies. The end result was that these companies ended up innefficient and once the subsidies were removed they quickly went bankrupt. Also with a work force of around 18 million people, its going to be really tough to determine a fair salary (with our canadian living standards) or to even have enough people work the jobs to be self dependent.
I totally agree with you that subsidies ruined our farms. One of the great benefits of living in Canada where government will help where is needed but the end result was that it got taken advantage of.
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--I agree we don't make a lot of things.. but we wooda cooda shooda... we had major clothing manufacturing business in Winnipeg... we had White trucks manufactured in Kelowna... we had several modular home manufacturers in Penticton...We had a major Mill in Okanagan falls.... we had Farwest clothing manufactured in Vernon...we had a glass factory that not only supplied wine bottles to local wineries but purchased glass from local recyclers.
--They were making money and it was circulated locally and produced fair wages for the workers and the managers... but it wasn't enough perceived profit for some manager/owners there was no value given to strong local economy steady growth and long term commitments... they needed exponential growth to match the Ponzi scheme Madov profit models that at the time many were gauging their business success against.
--the timber was tied to the mills... they were making money...if they could not make the kind of profit they wanted they should have sold the mill to a company that was willing to follow the rules and still make money.... instead they used their influence on government to have the rules changed so they could sell their logs without the expense of milling it here.
--some companies... oddly enough ones that did not have the advantage of a Tree farm license.. actually did use HST windfall money to upgrade and make their mills more profitable and stay in for the long term.
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--some companies... oddly enough ones that did not have the advantage of a Tree farm license.. actually did use HST windfall money to upgrade and make their mills more profitable and stay in for the long term.
Are you suggesting the HST was actually good for jobs? :o :o
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Are you suggesting the HST was actually good for jobs? :o :o
I would like to suggest HST is a fairer and much better tax.
The reason it's fearer is that everyone is paying it, and everyone is paying the same amount.
Unfortunately this is not completely true but that was the idea behind it. Government later started basterdising it to keep some industries happy and in effect made it PST like.
It's better because unlike PST we know what we are paying and we know who is paying it.
PST costs us more in government administration and business administration.
PST is kept in such a cloud of ignorance and confusion that you had to pay "experts" to understand what you are doing.
The way I look at it:
I know the government is ripping me off.
I would rather know how much they are ripping me off so I can fight it.
Rather than not knowing and living in the cloud.
The whole tax system is designed to be complicated and for most people not to understand it.
So the government can take money from under our noses and we don't even know about it.
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Are you suggesting the HST was actually good for jobs? :o :o
--There were a few forests companies that actually used the tax break to purchase new equipment as advertised to be the intended purpose. I think they should be rewarded. As to those that took the money and ran... maybe some kind of claw back is in order.
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I have mixed feelings towards the HST tax. But since I build residential housing for a living as well as sell real estate in the Vancouver area, I would have to lean towards going away from the HST. Construction costs + real estate trade was a good 7 percent cheaper with just the GST.
However I do agree that HST makes it so that everybody pays similar taxes on things, there are a lot less tax cuts in grey areas. Sounds to me like a socialist's tax, where as in the USA it's more capitalist since the rich get more tax cuts than the rest.
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http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/Federal+government+launches+immigration+plan+attract+more/7676209/story.html
looks like Canada is starting to open more opportunities for immigration in other fields of work.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadian-companies-applaud-foreign-worker-plan/article6146776/
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--no problem with immigration as these workers are less likely to be exploited... that is they get jobs with Canadian wages and safety standards.
--lack of skilled apprentices... that sounds familiar didn't BC scrap the government training program and replace it with "industry knows best" program for apprenticeship program.
--I see Domtar Kamloops has to shut down a line due to the expense of upgrading equipment... I guess that tax breaks they requested were not enough... don't be surprised if you see this brought up again in the new year claiming it was because of the removal of HST tax shift... even though they could have purchased the equipment at any time when the HST incentive especially applauded by forest companies was in effect.
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--no problem with immigration as these workers are less likely to be exploited... that is they get jobs with Canadian wages and safety standards.
--lack of skilled apprentices... that sounds familiar didn't BC scrap the government training program and replace it with "industry knows best" program for apprenticeship program.
--I see Domtar Kamloops has to shut down a line due to the expense of upgrading equipment... I guess that tax breaks they requested were not enough... don't be surprised if you see this brought up again in the new year claiming it was because of the removal of HST tax shift... even though they could have purchased the equipment at any time when the HST incentive especially applauded by forest companies was in effect.
They will be getting Canadian wages since there will be a minimum wage and the mines are still governed by Canadian law. Only difference is these workers are willing to work for less. Did BC scrap the government training program because too many people were interested and they didn't want to pay for it or was it because there weren't that many people interested to begin with. Mining isn't the best job in the world as it is quite labour intensive and definetley not my top 10 jobs to have in Canada! But to a Chinese miner, working as a miner in Canada must be heaven.
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Mining isn't the best job in the world as it is quite labour intensive and definetley not my top 10 jobs to have in Canada! But to a Chinese miner, working as a miner in Canada must be heaven.
You think they still use pick axes and shovel rock into trolly cars Ed? Mining is heavily mechanized, and heavy equipment jobs are highly sought after by Canadians.
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You think they still use pick axes and shovel rock into trolly cars Ed? Mining is heavily mechanized, and heavy equipment jobs are highly sought after by Canadians.
Actually no, but compared to white collar work, mining in northern BC is not a preferable choice... I dont know about you but I think I can speak for most Canadians that we enjoy staying with our families.....
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Yes, this all sounds familiar.
They didn't want to work in the cotton fields so they brought "foreign temporary workers" to fill the demand.
Sounds like a good idea. ::)
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--Did BC scrap the government training program because too many people were interested and they didn't want to pay for it or was it because there weren't that many people interested to begin with.
--It was my recollecting that the program when managed by Government.. that is students were placed into these jobs for training with industry. The coordinator checked to ensure the person actually got on the job training as advertised, in a safe environment and wasn't just being exploited for a training wage... and that they actually became certified.
--Industry convinced government that the coordinators were not a necessary expense and that they could do the training without oversite. Since that time the program has been a great success... well at least according to industry.
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Yes, this all sounds familiar.
They didn't want to work in the cotton fields so they brought "foreign temporary workers" to fill the demand.
Sounds like a good idea. ::)
You are right, it is a great idea! But unlike the cotton field days, these foreign workers might have a little bit better working conditions.
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--Did BC scrap the government training program because too many people were interested and they didn't want to pay for it or was it because there weren't that many people interested to begin with.
--It was my recollecting that the program when managed by Government.. that is students were placed into these jobs for training with industry. The coordinator checked to ensure the person actually got on the job training as advertised, in a safe environment and wasn't just being exploited for a training wage... and that they actually became certified.
--Industry convinced government that the coordinators were not a necessary expense and that they could do the training without oversite. Since that time the program has been a great success... well at least according to industry.
That makes sense, only problem i can see from this from a employers point of view is that students who got the training ended up moving on to another field of work therefore wasting resources on coordinators and trainers. I'm not sure what the numbers are, that actually still work in the fields after taking the program.