Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kjle on October 20, 2012, 02:39:14 PM
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Hey everyone, this is my first post here, though I've been observing for a while. That being said, I thought I'd introduce myself. I'm Kyle, I've been fishing for a few years but only started doing it seriously in the last two. So, I'm trying to take every opportunity to learn how to fish, while being respectful to the river and the people who fish it.
So I have a question, and I'd like to get the professional opinion of some of you who have a lot more experience.
Today I went to fish the Stave in hopes of scoring some clean female chums and some nice roe. I started off just fishing wool and was fishing a 6 ft deep slow-moving section. I had about 2 ft from my float to my weight, and about 1 foot from my weight to my hook with wool on. I hooked into about 15-20 in 3 hours and brought about 10 in. 1 was snagged in the back, another was in the side of the head. Both of which I carefully and promptly released. Every other fish was clearly a bite in the back of the throat or the tongue or tip of the jaw.
A certain individual began to rudely give me heck about snagging all these fish. I could not understand his logic. He argued my float to weight distance was too long and that's why I snagged fish. I had no intentions of doing so. If I really wanted to, I would throw a bouncing betty on and dredge the bottom like the crowds do.
Was this guy (read: know-it-all) correct? Was my setup rigged in such a way that would cause me to snag a lot of fish?
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I think you have the right depth and right size leader.
The problem is that you are fishing in a section that is loaded with hundreds of chums. No matter if you are short floating or not, you will bound to snag a few.
If you were targeting chums for the roe, I would suggest you get your limit and go instead of having to deal with the "know it all" type.
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Hey everyone, this is my first post here, though I've been observing for a while. That being said, I thought I'd introduce myself. I'm Kyle, I've been fishing for a few years but only started doing it seriously in the last two. So, I'm trying to take every opportunity to learn how to fish, while being respectful to the river and the people who fish it.
So I have a question, and I'd like to get the professional opinion of some of you who have a lot more experience.
Today I went to fish the Stave in hopes of scoring some clean female chums and some nice roe. I started off just fishing wool and was fishing a 6 ft deep slow-moving section. I had about 2 ft from my float to my weight, and about 1 foot from my weight to my hook with wool on. I hooked into about 15-20 in 3 hours and brought about 10 in. 1 was snagged in the back, another was in the side of the head. Both of which I carefully and promptly released. Every other fish was clearly a bite in the back of the throat or the tongue or tip of the jaw.
A certain individual began to rudely give me heck about snagging all these fish. I could not understand his logic. He argued my float to weight distance was too long and that's why I snagged fish. I had no intentions of doing so. If I really wanted to, I would throw a bouncing betty on and dredge the bottom like the crowds do.
Was this guy (read: know-it-all) correct? Was my setup rigged in such a way that would cause me to snag a lot of fish?
I fail to understand the logic in assuming you were snagging fish when 2 out of 10 landed were foul hooked. Your set-up sounds like a "short float" method to me. What size of hook were you using, and what pound leader? What size piece of wool? How were you setting the hook? Sometimes I see guys lifting the rod tip and "jerking" at the end of every cast. There's no doubt what they're doing then! When the run is thick full of fish, it's hard not to foul hook some.
When you landed your fish, did you beach any? Or did you get right into the water with the fish to release them?
So - you were fishing a 6 foot section, with 2 feet between your float and weight, and 1 foot leader. Definitely not too long IMHO. Either you ran into an jerk, or I'm missing something here...
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Was your drift drag free or were you holding back?
Even with the proper setup you can floss fish by swinging through a herd of chum.
I like to short float quite high when the chum are thick. If your weight wasn't hitting bottom then you're probably okay.
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Sounds like short floating to me. There will always be those people who bitch about this or that.
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Without having been there, it is hard to make an accurate judgment.
You failed to tell us how long your leader was (from swivel to hook) as its length has significant bearing on how many fish you may or may not have flossed.
Anything over 24", and you are certain to floss a few fish when they travel thick. Heck, you can floss a fish with a 12 inch leader! It all depends how many fish are in the system at the time and what your intention is. Chum love to surface - they love porpoising, so it is not unusual to accidentally floss them or snag them even when you are short floating.
The only way to avoid flossing or lining fish is by using circle hooks. Otherwise, a flossed or snagged fish from time to time is the price you pay for the fun.
Even the most proficient short-floaters and blade users occasionally floss fish - especially in very murky conditions like yesterday. Even fly fishers floss fish when the fish travel thick. Don't believe anyone who tells you they never get to floss or snag salmon - they are either lying or living in denial.
As for your experience yesterday with the know-it-all, don't sweat it. From the sounds of it and assuming your leader wasn't too long, the guy was simply jealous that things were working so great for you. I've had a similar thing happen to me last year on a slough I was fishing. I was into my 6th or 7th coho and a guy had the gall to tell me I was lining the coho with my fly line. Thing is, it was slough water, without movement, and I was catching them on the retrieve - in the mouth every time. They were just hot for my fly and not for his roe.
Sounds to me something similar happened yesterday - the fish were there, you got everything right, so someone just got a tad jealous.
Keep up the good job and thanks for bringing your doubts up on the forum.
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Your set up was right..You will always run into Mr. Know It All at the river. If you are not intentionally snagging fish. Who care what they say, They just want to ruin your day. I will tell them to take a hike. ;D ;D
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Since when do flossers release fish. That about settles it
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Your set up was right..You will always run into Mr. Know It All at the river. If you are not intentionally snagging fish. Who care what they say, They just want to ruin your day. I will tell them to take a hike. ;D ;D
^This. There are a lot of condescending know-it-alls on the river these days. Even with a proper short-floating setup, you are bound to foul hook/floss/whatever one or two when the fish are in thick. Your setup sounds fine; the vast majority of your fish were hooked legitimately by the sounds of it. If you want to try to minimize snagging/flosssing even further, you could try spots that aren't as thick with Chum. Who knows, you might get a shot at a Coho. ;)
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Even the most proficient short-floaters and blade users occasionally floss fish - especially in very murky conditions like yesterday. Even fly fishers floss fish when the fish travel thick. Don't believe anyone who tells you they never get to floss or snag salmon - they are either lying or living in denial.
Hey Milo, you are so right. ;)
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I had a mr know it all a couple weeks back yell at an angler beside me. Was making all a fuss and didnt' even bother to ask us who were fishing beside him if the accusations were true. sounds like you were short floating though I would try a little bit of a smaller leader as it may reduce your the snag ratio
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I had a mr know it all a couple weeks back yell at an angler beside me. Was making all a fuss and didnt' even bother to ask us who were fishing beside him if the accusations were true. sounds like you were short floating though I would try a little bit of a smaller leader as it may reduce your the snag ratio
Was the guy yelling across the river?
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At the stave i fish usually the top 2 feet of water, with 18" leader or less. To avoid snagging fish as they do stack up in large numbers and also to target only the fresh more aggressive fish. Seems to work well. I haven't pulled in very many moldy ones this year.
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Thanks for the affirmation, everyone. I'm happy to hear I was not in the wrong.
Without having been there, it is hard to make an accurate judgment.
You failed to tell us how long your leader was (from swivel to hook) as its length has significant bearing on how many fish you may or may not have flossed.
Anything over 24", and you are certain to floss a few fish when they travel thick. Heck, you can floss a fish with a 12 inch leader! It all depends how many fish are in the system at the time and what your intention is. Chum love to surface - they love porpoising, so it is not unusual to accidentally floss them or snag them even when you are short floating.
I mentioned that my leader was only about a foot long. And all the fish I pulled up were quite clean and gave a good fight, whereas the flossers were pulling in old boots.
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I fail to understand the logic in assuming you were snagging fish when 2 out of 10 landed were foul hooked. Your set-up sounds like a "short float" method to me. What size of hook were you using, and what pound leader? What size piece of wool? How were you setting the hook? Sometimes I see guys lifting the rod tip and "jerking" at the end of every cast. There's no doubt what they're doing then! When the run is thick full of fish, it's hard not to foul hook some.
When you landed your fish, did you beach any? Or did you get right into the water with the fish to release them?
So - you were fishing a 6 foot section, with 2 feet between your float and weight, and 1 foot leader. Definitely not too long IMHO. Either you ran into an jerk, or I'm missing something here...
I had a piece of wool the size of a single egg on a #2 hook with 10 lb leader. I waited for fish to strike and I jerked and set the hook. I don't know how I could've done things "any more legal."
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Was the guy yelling across the river?
yes he was yelling, I decided to stay out of it unless it esclated further though the guys beside us all thought it was a bit strange.
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yes he was yelling, I decided to stay out of it unless it esclated further though the guys beside us all thought it was a bit strange.
Yeah I was there, the guys that were doing the yelling were two good members off this forum. This was behind OTW store right?
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Yeah I was there, the guys that were doing the yelling were two good members off this forum. This was behind OTW store right?
yes was in that area, I'm all for telling someone off I've done it from time to time but all the ducks must line up in a row first. And if unsure one can always phone RAPP.
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Telling someone off for not having done anything wrong? The poor guy got there early to enjoy a nice day of fishing, and is getting harrassed from across the river. :-\
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Yeah I was there, the guys that were doing the yelling were two good members off this forum. This was behind OTW store right?
Not so good members as it turns out. ::)
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how were you fishing ? dead drift or were you swinging towards shore? did you try and pop the snagged fish off or just do the snaggers yank 'n' crank ?How did you handle the fish? Ive seen guys hold their tongues on things and then freak out over little stuff because of what the person did before. Hard to know for sure without being there to actually see what took place, there's always two sides. If you are swinging a hook with wool then you are certain to snag some, much less likely chance to snag any at a dead drift. IMO dead-drifting Jigs is by far the most effective method for chum, and far less likely to snag any fish.ive seen people snag chum with jigs too but it is typically because of a slow retrieve or fishing too deep
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how were you fishing ? dead drift or were you swinging towards shore? did you try and pop the snagged fish off or just do the snaggers yank 'n' crank ?How did you handle the fish? Ive seen guys hold their tongues on things and then freak out over little stuff because of what the person did before. Hard to know for sure without being there to actually see what took place, there's always two sides. If you are swinging a hook with wool then you are certain to snag some, much less likely chance to snag any at a dead drift. IMO dead-drifting Jigs is by far the most effective method for chum, and far less likely to snag any fish.ive seen people snag chum with jigs too but it is typically because of a slow retrieve or fishing too deep
Doesnt matter dude. These two guys had no business yelling from across the river at this fellow.Who are these guys,wannabe fish cops?
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Doesnt matter dude. These two guys had no business yelling from across the river at this fellow.Who are these guys,wannabe fish cops?
salmonsturgeontrout is asking the OP about the incident at the Stave.
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Telling someone off for not having done anything wrong? The poor guy got there early to enjoy a nice day of fishing, and is getting harrassed from across the river. :-\
sorry about that, I didn't' write that quite correct. I am only one for telling someone off if they actually did something wrong, and have evidence to back it up. As I do recall we did question the fellow angler after but in a more courteous matter. We were all there quite early but that sometimes just makes the difference between a good day and a not so good day.
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I have a related question. I'm a fishing noob. I did some bar fishing and lake fishing when I was younger, but I'm just getting back into fishing. I plan on doing some freshwater fishing soon with a short float setup.
I was at a local river scouting around and saw a group of guys using a pencil weight setup: pencil weight on mainline, swivel, 4 - 5 foot leader, pink yarn on hook. They were not jerking the rod to the side, just a normal cast and retrieve. Everyone else on the river was using a short float setup.
I did some searching when I got home and the pencil weight setup seemed fairly common. But it seems this setup would be considered a borderline snagging setup, even if the leader isn't ridiculously long.
I'm going with the short float system, but I was curious how using a pencil weight system would be perceived by experienced anglers.
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I don't see a problem with using pencil lead, but a 4 - 5 foot leader is getting a bit long. I've seen lots of guys use this set-up and as long as they are not jigging or setting the hook at nothing at every cast, I really don't have an issue with it. The longer leader may lead to more snagged or flossed fish, but as long as they release the snagged fish properly, then who am I, or DFO, to argue? In clear water conditions, it makes sense to go to a longer (and lighter) leader. Again, 4 - 5 feet is too long IMHO. But using pencil lead itself?
There does seem to be some wannabe cops out there and sometimes these guys are worse than the snaggers themselves. There's a respectful way of telling people what the law is, or your opinion of the law. Earlier this season, there were a couple of guys fishing in the dark with glo-sticks on their floats. They were within the hour before sunrise. One guy aggressively told them that they were breaking the law, and he was promptly told by them to "you-know-what". I chose to pull out my iPhone, and look-up DFO's information about using lights and politely showed them the information. They thanked me for it, and it was a much better experience all around.
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Its not just the length of your leader but how you use it that's important. I see a serious problem here in that anyone using a leader longer than 24 inches could be accused of snagging without consideration of how they are fishing. A longer leader with a longer float so that your lead is dragging or ticking off the bottom is a recipe for snagging or flossing. I prefer to fish slow pools or runs where your float is moving slower than walking speed. If the water is clear I sometimes run a 3 foot 8lb flourocarbon leader and setup my float so that the entire length of my gear is hanging vertical. I cast further upstream to let the roe sink a bit before it gets to the zone. At that slow speed of water and fishing with the gear vertical, its near impossible to floss a fish. When the fish have seen a ton of lead fly by them, sometimes its critical to have some distance between your bait and the lead.
What I do have a problem with are those that rip the pool at the end of every cast. Really, you are getting bites every cast at exactly the same spot?
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What I do have a problem with are those that rip the pool at the end of every cast. Really, you are getting bites every cast at exactly the same spot?
LOL!
That's what I always ask them...of course, there's no reply, but usually they stop doing it every cast and do it every second or third cast.
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I have witnessed some very disturbing flossing. snagging, and ripping behind OTW store the last couple weekends, so blatant and repugnant, it just causes me to shake my head in disgust. Those poor fish, yesterday I even saw one fellow boot a coloured dog back into the water so he could fight it a little longer. No class IMHO. If your running float to leader longer than the water is deep, its only for one reason, and lets face it, other than a few pools, most runs are not 10 ft deep.
Its easy to understand why some people get upset by these poor angling practices. :P