Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Polaris on September 25, 2012, 07:53:40 PM
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Just put some new line on my reel and went to give it a try. But as soon as I would hold the line and flip the bail on my spin reel to cast, the line shut off the reel and twisted up. So before just about every cast I had to untangle a mess which was not fun! Any suggestions?
PS: I am using an old Shimano reel (which seems to be in good condition). The reel is now optimally filled with 200m of 20lb Ultima Ultragreen
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Sounds like an odd problem... are you sure the line is threaded under the bail correctly? also, what are you casting? if it's a spoon, are the swivels are working properly?
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Overspool and line memory
I used to get that sometimes as I tend to overspool my spinning reels, or used to anyway.
once you cut off some line and or it looses memory from use it should be fine
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Over spool for sure, get rid of some line and it should be fine.
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I have to agree. Using 20 lb line and having to much on will for sure make a mess.
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your bail could also be in the wrong open position prior to casting.
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It's suggested to soak your line for a little bit and spool the line out of the water. That way when it dries it will retain the shape of the spool it's on better. I love my grammar here. Since I switched to berkley nanofil (sort of a smooth braid) I never experience that problem, even when over-spooled.
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I agree with overspooling. Just used new spinning reel 2 days ago.. After getting a birds nest on a spinning reel, i chopped up plenty of line and problem solved. Also make sure you spool correctly.. Something like.. If your bail rotates counter clockwise, the line should come off a certain way.. Its on youtube.
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use triline xl line for spinning reels.
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Highly recommend braid on a spinning reels
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Hmm, I got my line at Army&Navy were they sell it in bulk. They also put it on my reel for me. Visually the reel doesn't appear to be overfilled. Also, I'd like to believe they know what they are doing... So if its a less likely reason, I don't want to take off a bunch of line and sacrifice casting distance.
On the subject of line memory, they took off the actual spool from my reel and put it on their spinning machine (not sure which way). Their line comes on huge reels which you can't put on a table this way or that way, so I guess it is possible they could have mixed up the spin direction. Assuming that is the case, since the line is already on my reel, is there a way for me to tell now if it is spooled incorrectly? (I'd hate to have to remove 200m of line by hand especially if again that is not the cause.) I am also wondering how long it would take the line to lose its original memory and get 'retrained'?
It was suggested to put the top part of the line in water to help retrain it. But aren't polymers hydrophobic, ie: shouldn't they repel water and not be affected by it (after all the line is designed to be spending much of its time in water)?
As far as diff lines are concerned, Ultima Ultragreen was again suggested to me by guys at A&N. Could you please explain to me the pros and cons of Triline XL and braid as compared to Ultima? (I do indeed have Triline XL on my lighter trout rod and have been using it without issues. But I guess I was led to believe Ultima was better for "salmon" applications).
Please explain how my bail could be "in the wrong open position prior to casting" and could something else in my casting technique be at fault?
Regarding what I was casting that day: it was a wet fly with a weight under float (small 3-way swivel without a ball bearing)
And back to my technique, if I am planning to be casting spinners, wet flies and bait under float using a heavy 10' fiberglass rod what style/technique would give me the greatest casting distance with reasonable accuracy? Given that the rod is rated at 2 3/4 oz (80g) and that I have a 20lb test line, what casting distance can I reasonably expect with the above rigs?
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I presume you're talking about maxima ultragreen.
It's a great line probably the most versatile commonly used line on the market. Lots of guys don't use it but it's all preference, most of us use it probably because someone first told us to. I fish exclusively maxima for my mono because thats what the old man used.
If you had you reel lined on a machine I don't think that line twist is your issue.
Personally I think 20lb is a little heavy for a spin reel I would go MAX 15 maybe 12, I run 8lb with a long noodle rod and it does the trick in most situations.
I would have to agree with the others I still think your problem is over spool. If your line is flush with the head of the spool you've got to much line on there should be a slight edge sticking out. Don't be afraid to take a bit off
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--agree overspooling...something I do myself so not really to blame A&N... spool shape, taper ie long cone shape vs short and fat no taper and tension on the line will also have an effect.
--nothing wrong with the line that many use but agree 20 lb is getting up there for a mono given the diameter of UG.
--If you don't want to cut try dip in warm.. not hot water... not suggesting you pee on the spool in the river although that might work.
-- Warm water dip and cast.. wind in.. make sure drag is tight enough to not allow spin without bringing in line as this can also cause twist.
--I'm going through the same painful process with braid... which pains me to cut, given the cost, but taking about 20 yrds off at a time to dial in a new reel that I haven't used before thus do not know the sweet spot on the reel.
--Each reel is different and many in the past did not spool enough on the reel thus the shop put on the max amount by feel.
--Also check if the reel has a suggested amount of line... the suggested amount should also have the diameter of the line not just the lb test.. the diameter is more accurate than lb test when spooling.
--to be fair... I wholesale platypus line.. but I am not going to suggest in this case that a change to platypus would help...I have no issue with Ultra Green as it is a common line used in BC, I have used it myself and found it to be a great all purpose line. I agree with some that 20 lb UG is fairly thick diameter ( I would use it on a trolling reel) maybe 12-15 lb would be adequate for a spin reel.. again depending on the size and shape of the spool.
--Mono does obsorb water over time... it will break at a different rate than when dry.. IGFA test is based on line that has been soaked in water.
--Casting distance can also be affected by the distance and angle to the first eye on your rod and the diameter of the first and even second eye.
--check out fuji K-structure guides and new microwave line control systems from Doug Hannon.. I haven't tried the new micro wave yet but there is some useful information on how line will flow through the guides.
--I'm an expert on untangling birds nests as I experiment a lot.. you just have to get dialed in to what works for you.
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Trilene xl is great line for trout rod. But xl stands for extra limp which means something like less strength and resistance but great casts. So its not so good for the river.. Used it in the fraser for pinks and had problems. Ultragreen is very popular but im using big game recently and liking it. 1200 yards for $11.
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You have a bunch of questions here so I'll cover them individually.
So if its a less likely reason, I don't want to take off a bunch of line and sacrifice casting distance.
You won't be sacrificing casting distance (you can't cast the whole spool) but you could run into problems if you hook a big fish.
You should have a 1/8 inch gap between the line and the edge of the spool.
... is there a way for me to tell now if it is spooled incorrectly? (I'd hate to have to remove 200m of line by hand especially if again that is not the cause.)
The only way for the line to come off the spool is the way that it was put on by the reel.
I suppose it could be put on "backwards" but the first time you cast out and reel the line back in, it will go back on in the proper direction.
The bail moves only in one direction when reeling in and they all probably turn the same way so the store probably put it on properly.
I am also wondering how long it would take the line to lose its original memory and get 'retrained'?
It was suggested to put the top part of the line in water to help retrain it. But aren't polymers hydrophobic, ie: shouldn't they repel water and not be affected by it (after all the line is designed to be spending much of its time in water)?
He was probably suggesting putting the line in warm water to soften it up then cooling it "flat".
Please explain how my bail could be "in the wrong open position prior to casting" and could something else in my casting technique be at fault?
It is possible that the bail isn't open completely and is unlocking the spool allowing it to unravel the line.
Or, there is some other mechanical problem with the reel that allows it to unspool.
And back to my technique, if I am planning to be casting spinners,
lwet flies and bait under float using a heavy 10' fiberglass rod what style/technique would give me the greatest casting distance with reasonable accuracy? Given that the rod is rated at 2 3/4 oz (80g) and that I have a 20lb test line, what casting distance can I reasonably expect with the above rigs?
Things that affect casting distance are:
rod flexibility - 10 foot fibreglass rod is probably not very flexible - the rod needs to "load" to cast well
line wieght - heavier line does not cast as far
spoon wieght - a spoon/spinner that is too heavy or too light won't cast properly
Other random comments:
20 lb line might be too heavy - most pin guys use 20lb but that has to do with casting a pin more than anything else
I would probably use a 15lb "limp" line as suggested
You could take it back to the store and let them have a look
(Rod: long replies are a nightmare in the tiny edit window)
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Your reel was spooled incorrectly only solution I know of is go to a field and tie your line o to something with a very good swivel and back away till you are out of line then crank the drag and walk forward if your lucky this will work if not respool properly there is lots of of Info on this on u tube.
Good luck
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I would agree to much line and also a little heavy for the reel.
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Three typical problems for this happening are:
1) to much line on the spool.
2) stiff line.
3) line is spooled on to tight. Which is quite easy to do.
I spooled 2 spinning reels yesterday. One with original Stren 10# and one with Trilene 8#.
After getting the line on the reel , flip the bale and see if your line jumps off the spool. It most likely will. Let the line come off the reel until it stops. Pull off another 10 yards and reel back on the spool while holding the line with medium pressure (at most) through your finger tips. Do this a few times.
Hardly ever have a problem after using this method.
Good luck.
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don't forget that instead of respooling your whole reel with new line you can unspool lets say half and save it by spooling it onto a spare anything... then use an albright knot and spool on anything else like 12 pound line. That way you will have good backing, you will have a visual cue as to when the fish takes out too much line and you won't have to waste a whole spool of new line. So if you buy 150 yards take off 50 yards of 20p from reel and spool on 75 12p leaving you with enough line to respool for next season.
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What casting distance would you consider normal for a 10', 2 3/4oz rod casting that exact weight with a 2 ball bearing spinning real (Shimano Sports Power 6*) with a monofilament line if:
a) rod = fiber glass and line = 20lb?
b) rod = fiber glass and line = 12lb?
c) rod = carbon fiber and line = 12lb?
* The above reel seems to be in a good condition. Is lubricated and spins fine (it is a 30 year old model but got almost no use).
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The best way to fix this problem is to go down to the flow and find a spot where you can let all the line out without anything on the line. Let the current take all the line off and just leave it for about five minutes. The current will take the twist out and then reel it back in between your fingers applying a bit of pressure. Hold the line just before the stripper guide when reeling back in. I gaurentee this will solve the problem. If the line still falls off the spool when the bale is opened you have to much line on it. There should be 1/8 inch from the line to the leading edge of the spool. Just remember dont put anything on the end of the line not even a micro swivel. The faster the current this faster the twist will come out of the line.
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Check the side of the spool to see what your reel's rated for. If 20 lb is on the high end, you just have too heavy a line. If the middle range is 12 - 15 lb scaling your line down will make a world of difference. You can try walking it out and reloading, but I think it will still fly off. I use reels that take 300 yds + of 12 lb mono and I've found that spooling very close to the lip gets me extra distance, and wetting the spool with a sponge or something before opening the bail keeps line from falling off and helps it pass through the guides, gaining a little more distance. 12 lb casts further than 14, it all depends on what you're fishing for. A 10' med action rod, (my old Wonderod!) throwing 2 3/4 oz with 12 lb line goes maybe 75 or 80 yds on a good day, 14 or 15 lb may be more appropriate depending on your quarry or snags.
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Over spool for sure, get rid of some line and it should be fine.
Ha! I'm having the same problem with a new Shimano Corvalus reel. The mechanical drag is set right and for the life of me I haven't been able to figure out why I keep getting birds-nests on every 2nd or third cast. The only other way I've been able to eliminate the issue is by putting 4-5 oz of weight on. While this has been fine for float/bait fishing it has been wreaking havoc on my spoons! Thanks for the tip!
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Ha! I'm having the same problem with a new Shimano Corvalus reel. The mechanical drag is set right and for the life of me I haven't been able to figure out why I keep getting birds-nests on every 2nd or third cast. The only other way I've been able to eliminate the issue is by putting 4-5 oz of weight on. While this has been fine for float/bait fishing it has been wreaking havoc on my spoons! Thanks for the tip!
Edit - I'm using a bait-casting reel rather than a spincaster...wonder if it will fix the problem. I'll have to go out and try it today. Thanks again.
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Ha! I'm having the same problem with a new Shimano Corvalus reel. The mechanical drag is set right and for the life of me I haven't been able to figure out why I keep getting birds-nests on every 2nd or third cast. The only other way I've been able to eliminate the issue is by putting 4-5 oz of weight on. While this has been fine for float/bait fishing it has been wreaking havoc on my spoons! Thanks for the tip!
You need to have the spin adjustment set very loose to get maximum casting distance with a baitcaster.
Just jam the spool with your thumb to stop it when you hear your gear hit the water and you won't over spin & birdnest.
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--this is all great advise... but if none of it works.... switch outfits with an experienced buddy and cast each others rigs.... just in case it is you and not the rig.
--make sure it is an understanding buddy and at a demo rather than on a fishing outing... just in case you end up with a birds nest in your buddies rig... they must have a good sense of humor.
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Thank's for all the advice (overfill and line strength, etc.). Now on a somewhat diff note, with all other things being equal, I understand that a heavier weight (within reason) - will cast further. If my 10' fiber glass rod is rated as 2 3/4 oz, would using a 3 or 4 oz weight produce longer casts? How heavy can I go without damaging the rod?
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Thank's for all the advice (overfill and line strength, etc.). Now on a somewhat diff note, with all other things being equal, I understand that a heavier weight (within reason) - will cast further. If my 10' fiber glass rod is rated as 2 3/4 oz, would using a 3 or 4 oz weight produce longer casts? How heavy can I go without damaging the rod?
Can you list the specific rod, it would help in answering. I would place money on the rod being fine throwing 4oz weights. Though the rod is just straight up fibreglass?
Also, I assume you are bottom bouncing then,with 4oz weights, correct?
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don't forget that instead of respooling your whole reel with new line you can unspool lets say half and save it by spooling it onto a spare anything... then use an albright knot and spool on anything else like 12 pound line. That way you will have good backing, you will have a visual cue as to when the fish takes out too much line and you won't have to waste a whole spool of new line. So if you buy 150 yards take off 50 yards of 20p from reel and spool on 75 12p leaving you with enough line to respool for next season.
Splices are never a good idea. Unless you have an oversized reel and are just trying to fill some space. I wouldn't recommend this IMO.
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rickjames_2:
I can't really add much more factual info about the rod. All I can say is that it was bought in a fishing store in Richmond way back in early '80's and all it says on it (in addition to 10', 2 3/4oz) is: "Spinning - Glass Fibre. 'Fibatube' England, 'Steelhead' ". Nothing else about line rating or anything. As for my preferred method, I wasn't planing on bottom bouncing but rather fishing under float or parking a bar rig on the bottom.
Also, if casting a bar rig, would a pendulum cast be a good technique or would it just tangle things up?