Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chronic_topdawg on September 13, 2012, 10:53:02 AM
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I wonder if there full lol. But its ok cause thats the way theve been doin it for centeries :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lINxla-YuU&list=UUmQO7Oko8nmr9YnsOaI60iA&index=1&feature=plcp
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wow.......Speechless
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I think what bothers me about this is that all the surplus fish that swim up to the hatchery are given to the band anyways. By blocking the river off, essentially the general public fishing the river has no access to them. The fish will go through no matter how low the water is. Imagine what the fishing would be like there were no native weirs below the bridge. Our tax dollars go to funding the hatchery. Shouldn't we river fishers at least have some fair access to the fish?
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At least they took the time to identify and release wild ones and summer-run steelhead.
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One dude was stomping on a fish
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Disgusting ...I love seeing our tax dollars being spent on this fishery.
Stewards of the land for sure.
Why let one fish get by for the common man kill everything in sight
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WoW !!! Quite startling and WoW is all I can say right now.
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I would love to go on a rant but its their land right. They just evoloved their techniques.
Be sure to pinch your barbs
Just wish they used sticks instead of shopping carts, And I love the use of the nikes for a bonker.
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Our tax dollars at work folks, disgusting.. Well done Canadian Government..
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What river is this,very disturbing too see.
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Searun...its the Capilano.....I wonder what kind of response this video could illicit should it find some way to reach a news station ballsy enough to air it.
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simple regardless of what their origins or they feel are their rights the idiots in this clip are scum.
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Somehow the fishing techniques have evolved but their respect for nature has devolved. How many of those punks even believe in what their ancestors cherished and respected? Isn't nature a deity in their culture? No respect and they are giving a bad name to those natives that do it right. Just like the Canucks riots gave Vancouver a bad name
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I just wrote up a small report and complaint to the DFO. along with an email to CBC bc to fight not only for "animal rights" but that our tax dollars are being wasted along with our fisheries harmed by reckless care. Pardon me for saying it but they will not eat all those fish most will be sold illegally and we've all seen it.
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This is just wrong!!!!! >:(
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All that would need to be done to stop this is to open the dam every few days to wash away the weirs.....if anyone really cared enough
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What is wrong here? Im not being sarcastic, I really dont know much about the rules or regs that FN need to follow, and I cant tell species from this video alone, so could someone explain what is happening, and what should or should not be happening here?
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What is wrong here? Im not being sarcastic, I really dont know much about the rules or regs that FN need to follow, and I cant tell species from this video alone, so could someone explain what is happening, and what should or should not be happening here?
I think some people are upset that our tax dollars fund the hatchery on that river only to have a select group of people (who may or may not be contributing to said taxes in the same way) take a vast majority of the fish in a less sporting way.
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What is wrong here? Im not being sarcastic, I really dont know much about the rules or regs that FN need to follow, and I cant tell species from this video alone, so could someone explain what is happening, and what should or should not be happening here?
The Indians have created a rock weir in essence channneling the river into a large pool. They have put up steel gate (sometimes they use shopping carts) which allows water to flow through. The salmon swims up til they reach the gate. They can't get through and they turn around and swim back downstream into the pool where the Indians catch them with landing nets. They are catching cohos
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Seems true about DFO, government and local news have some sort of unwritten agreement about not doing much or airing this type of activity.
Pretty sure most of them don't have enough fridge space to keep these coho refrigerated (fresh). Would you buy a fish that's been sitting in the sun ALL day or a day old without refrigeration? I hope not. So what they don't sell or use for family use most likely get dumped. Then it's back to the weirs to do it all over again. Unfortunately this happens EVERY year.
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Also just to Echo what Rod already mentioned......you sure don't see them bothering to identify and release wilds/steelies and such.....not to mention the damage to the system that they are doing
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the comments on youtube are going to get ugly quick
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With no rain in the forecast for the foreseeable future, won't they pretty much wipe out the whole run this year?
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The Indians have created a rock weir in essence channneling the river into a large pool. They have put up steel gate (sometimes they use shopping carts) which allows water to flow through. The salmon swims up til they reach the gate. They can't get through and they turn around and swim back downstream into the pool where the Indians catch them with landing nets. They are catching cohos
Well I did get that, but I understand I asked. I more so meant, what is going on here that is or isnt legal.
I can see how waste would be a concern, and incorrect IDing of species would be a piss off, but are these things happening? I dont mean to say "ITS ALL HEARSAY YOU HAVE NO PROOF" or anything like that. I just dont really know right. That doesnt seem like THAT much fish. If every other person there has a deep freeze, seems like there is more than enough room for them. Then again, I dont know how much they took. I would also believe that if people do this as a part of their livelyhood, maybe they can ID a fish much faster. Maybe there were no steelhead or wild stock in there? I cant tell. I am not saying there is or isnt, but does anyone else see them in the video? Again, I dont pretend to have knowledge, or experience, but I dont SEE anything wrong happening. Also, I dont like being influenced on hearsay, so I am trying to learn, not just play devils advocate.
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Well I did get that, but I understand I asked. I more so meant, what is going on here that is or isnt legal.
I can see how waste would be a concern, and incorrect IDing of species would be a piss off, but are these things happening? I dont mean to say "ITS ALL HEARSAY YOU HAVE NO PROOF" or anything like that. I just dont really know right. That doesnt seem like THAT much fish. If every other person there has a deep freeze, seems like there is more than enough room for them. Then again, I dont know how much they took. I would also believe that if people do this as a part of their livelyhood, maybe they can ID a fish much faster. Maybe there were no steelhead or wild stock in there? I cant tell. I am not saying there is or isnt, but does anyone else see them in the video? Again, I dont pretend to have knowledge, or experience, but I dont SEE anything wrong happening. Also, I dont like being influenced on hearsay, so I am trying to learn, not just play devils advocate.
I see where you're coming from and feel much the same about the actually event. Although I'm very disturbed about seeing that many fish killed without discrimination for wild fish and steelhead. I'm assuming this based on the pace and enthusiasm at which the activity is occurring and that no fish were released throughout the course of the video. I'd also like to learn more about what happens here and what the FN technically are and aren't allowed to do... The video poster mentioned in the caption that this only happens once a year. Although a friend who lives in the area says that the "weirs" have been setup for the last 2 months and are visited regularly. Can anyone else offer any insight on this?
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Coho running up the Capilano river meet with the natives.
This happens only 1 day of the year so haters and jelous freaks just shut up and turn the video off!!
That's what is says on the youtube vid. If that is the case then meh.
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They must planning on having a big ceremony !!!
Oh yeah and one day a year my A$$
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That's what is says on the youtube vid. If that is the case then meh.
This is not a year occurrence. It happens all summer as long as the cohos are running or until the fall rains wash away the weirs
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Anyway in particular, aside from a large amount of water, that could disrupt or destroy these weirs? Would it be illegal/possible for people to take it down by hand?
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Anyway in particular, aside from a large amount of water, that could disrupt or destroy these weirs? Would it be illegal/possible for people to take it down by hand?
Legal....unsure but probably not im thinking......possible...of course.....but watch for arrows flying at ya if they catch ya :P
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i just emailed the DFO, this is ridiculous and disgusting.
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derp derp.... must be so rewarding ::)
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Holy crap that's just brutal.....
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how come no one says holy crap when commercial guys on the fraser net fish, and take way more than the natives. Or about the over harvest of the fish in the ocean. we all buy the wild salmon from the stores and think its not stained because the government says its legal for them catch/harvest that way. a select group of people the government allows to fish that way. But when the government okays first nations to fish this way (small select group)...oh no its so wrong its disgusting blah blah blah. Just seems like this site if full of racist and bigots who want to live by double standards. anyone who wants to argue about the identifying of fish? isnt there bycatch in commercial fishing? I like this site, too bad its full of ignorant cruel people. Try to understand instead of hating.
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I think some people are upset that our tax dollars fund the hatchery on that river only to have a select group of people (who may or may not be contributing to said taxes in the same way) take a vast majority of the fish in a less sporting way.
Our tax dollars fund a hatchery that has supported a huge sportfishing fleet off West Vancouver for a couple of months now. Considering all the personal boats and charters, think of all the econcomic activity that has occurred as a result.
Our taxpayer dollars fund a hatchery that has supported a large beach fishery all along the West Van shorline. Think of a the economic activiity that has occurred as a result.
The hatchery is not just there to create a terminal in-river fishery for bank anglers.
Nah, our native brothers their just getting the lefovers. They fish that we couldn't catch earlier. ;D
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Coho running up the Capilano river meet with the natives.
This happens only 1 day of the year so haters and jelous freaks just shut up and turn the video off!!
That's what is says on the youtube vid. If that is the case then meh.
This is not a year occurrence. It happens all summer as long as the cohos are running or until the fall rains wash away the weirs
The video response mentioned that a coho run of that size only happens a few days a year. But they do harvest the rest of the year with numbers much lower.
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This is the response I got from the uploader of the video.
there is nothing ilegal here at all . we used dip nets and it is our river. i dont know why they are pissing on the video . this was a rare day happens only once a year and not even this good in years past . perfectly legal and condoned by our chiefs and people. and it was all coho and there is no limit as the limit is the devices you are allowed to use to catch as in dams and dip nets and rods only.
So, as it stands, from what I can gather, the only things really wrong here is the possible mis-identification of fish and that some of these may be illegally sold? Aside from that, the actual practice taking place in the video is legal and fine (if the fish are indeed all hatchery coho), just done with little class and grace?
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This is not a year occurrence. It happens all summer as long as the cohos are running or until the fall rains wash away the weirs
I'm pretty sure this was some kind of special occasion as can be seen by the hoard of people and the excitement.
Yes coho are netted all summer but not in mass like this afaik.
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There was a large palisaded Indian village at the mouth of the river when Captain George Vancouver sailed into the inlet in 1793, as there were on all major rivers along the coast. Back then the natives used large rock and wooden weirs to trap and harvest their salmon from the river. What you're seeing in the video is no different from a historical re-creation.
If you live in the GVRD area, don't forget to thank the Squamish Nation every time you turn on your water tap, water your lawn or wash your truck, because the Cleveland Dam that supplies all or some of that water wiped out 95% of the spawning areas in the river and destroying the native fishery on the river. The hatchery was built to replace a portion of that lost fish but you should be thankful the band hasn't called for all recreational fishing be banned from the river until they get all of their harvest...the courts would back them up.
Not "sporting"? The very idea of sport fishing, particularly catch and release, is abhorrent to most indigenous people. They aren't recreational fishermen. They catch fish and game for food, not for sport or to play with. See what your wife thinks when you borrow the Thanksgiving turkey for a quick game of turkey basketball in the driveway. You're projecting your cultural values on a different culture...you might as well try to open a sports bar in Saudi Arabia.
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Still Aqua - the voice of reason
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Looks like a day on Pegleg or Scales when Sockeye is open ;D ;D ;D ;D
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There was a large palisaded Indian village at the mouth of the river when Captain George Vancouver sailed into the inlet in 1793, as there were on all major rivers along the coast. Back then the natives used large rock and wooden weirs to trap and harvest their salmon from the river. What you're seeing in the video is no different from a historical re-creation.
If you live in the GVRD area, don't forget to thank the Squamish Nation every time you turn on your water tap, water your lawn or wash your truck, because the Cleveland Dam that supplies all or some of that water wiped out 95% of the spawning areas in the river and destroying the native fishery on the river. The hatchery was built to replace a portion of that lost fish but you should be thankful the band hasn't called for all recreational fishing be banned from the river until they get all of their harvest...the courts would back them up.
Not "sporting"? The very idea of sport fishing, particularly catch and release, is abhorrent to most indigenous people. They aren't recreational fishermen. They catch fish and game for food, not for sport or to play with. See what your wife thinks when you borrow the Thanksgiving turkey for a quick game of turkey basketball in the driveway. You're projecting your cultural values on a different culture...you might as well try to open a sports bar in Saudi Arabia.
Wow! I would like to share a day on the flow with you, Sir. (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs34/f/2008/298/e/2/Tip_My_Hat_emoticon_by_SeekingDivinity.gif)
Looks like a day on Pegleg or Scales when Sockeye is open.
Not nearly. It's much worse on Pegleg and Scale.
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Do as you please in terms of how you harvest, just don't be selling on the side of the road or to local restaurants under the table
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Drinking is legal... doesn't mean people don't abuse their right to drink.....
same goes with this.
its legal but i doubt any bureaucrats give a rats my friend because they need to protect their image...
How about the FN respecting the nature they claim to protect and love. Maybe help us create the fishery that they rape. they should pay fisheries a fish tax to increase the fish numbers and help the survivability of their runs and increase all of our catch rates. Why should we provide the fish for their slaughter when they pay nothing to it...
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lol nvm, wrong page!
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Brutal
These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....
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Portuguese were nicer
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Brutal
These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....
::)
And you are so lucky the Internet allows people to display their ignorance without revealing their true identity.
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There was a large palisaded Indian village at the mouth of the river when Captain George Vancouver sailed into the inlet in 1793, as there were on all major rivers along the coast. Back then the natives used large rock and wooden weirs to trap and harvest their salmon from the river. What you're seeing in the video is no different from a historical re-creation.
If you live in the GVRD area, don't forget to thank the Squamish Nation every time you turn on your water tap, water your lawn or wash your truck, because the Cleveland Dam that supplies all or some of that water wiped out 95% of the spawning areas in the river and destroying the native fishery on the river. The hatchery was built to replace a portion of that lost fish but you should be thankful the band hasn't called for all recreational fishing be banned from the river until they get all of their harvest...the courts would back them up.
Not "sporting"? The very idea of sport fishing, particularly catch and release, is abhorrent to most indigenous people. They aren't recreational fishermen. They catch fish and game for food, not for sport or to play with. See what your wife thinks when you borrow the Thanksgiving turkey for a quick game of turkey basketball in the driveway. You're projecting your cultural values on a different culture...you might as well try to open a sports bar in Saudi Arabia.
Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood. Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well. These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck. The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube).
Where was the uproar when THIS happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k)
And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set. How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye? How many wild coho? Thompson steelhead?
No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable. But if a group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul. Hypocrites.
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Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood. Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well. These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck. The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube).
Where was the uproar when THIS happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k)
And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set. How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye? How many wild coho? Thompson steelhead?
No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable. But if a group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul. Hypocrites.
Agreed.
With no rain in the forecast for the foreseeable future, won't they pretty much wipe out the whole run this year?
Fic, the bulk of the run is stacking up at the mouth. So I don't think this will decimate the run.
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Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood. Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well. These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck. The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube).
Where was the uproar when THIS happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k)
And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set. How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye? How many wild coho? Thompson steelhead?
No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable. But if a group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul. Hypocrites.
Sick. And I dont mean wrong, I mean, "Yodas gonna feel this one!" sick.
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White people might have destroyed some fisheries to have running water and electricity so now we have limits and regulations on fishing. So since native fish were taken away from natives they get no limits. So why da hell do they get to use white man's water and electricity? There is no way that the locals would have that kind of infrastructure if it wasn't brought from Europe. They were thousands of years behind in tech when whities got here. So choose, either get native rights or live like everyone else.
Really don't mean to offend anyone but as someone whose parents have gone through immigration, having to rebuild their lives by working hard I do get upset when people who were born in this wonderful nation of Canada with every right imaginable and more still need and ask extra consideration.
PS commercial fisheries pay for licences and still follow rules.
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By posting this video on youtube what was the point? Was it to educate people about how natives fish on the Capilano River in the Fall of 2012. If so I have to say the video was a complete failure. If I was one of the elders for this tribe, I would say to take the video down. All you have to do is take a look at the racist and threatening comments that have been made about this video to see what I am talking about. Not arguing that Natives have a right to harvest the Coho in the river, but there is a right and wrong way to go about doing things. They could have harvested the fish in a manner without all the loud boasting, hollering and whooping, and the use of the fishing nets. Like it or not, we all share the land and should strive to get along and be good neighbors to one another. Videos like this do nothing but stir the pot about native fishing rights in this province.
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Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood. Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well. These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck. The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now
I'm not opposed to them getting fish. my point was that they get them anyways! There's no need to block off the river thus basically shutting out a user group.
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Those fish are for sale on the reserve. Having grown up in West Vancouver, we would always buy our fish from the band. I don't anymore though.
Sure it is their right, but then why do we subsidize them? That band is one of the richest in Canada. They own Park Royal for pete's sake!
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They own Park Royal for pete's sake!
No they don't lol. They lease the southern portion of the mall (on their land) to a large corporation.
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cutthroat
yes they do.
And they are planning on putting highrises right on Ambleside beach.
Just look at the new development where the hotel used to be.
This is a very rich band, and they make millions from lease payments from Park Royal.
And I say good for them. But the greed from selling fish at the side of the road just goes too far.
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cutthroat
yes they do.
And they are planning on putting highrises right on Ambleside beach.
Just look at the new development where the hotel used to be.
This is a very rich band, and they make millions from lease payments from Park Royal.
And I say good for them. But the greed from selling fish at the side of the road just goes too far.
No they don't. I am quite familiar with the owners of Park Royal.
http://www.leasingatparkroyal.com/about-us
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::)
And you are so lucky the Internet allows people to display their ignorance without revealing their true identity.
What I was trying to convene was that they are lucky that they benefit from the government of this country. In many places the "first people" dont have those rights...
I don't hide my beliefs behind the anonymity of the internet. I voice the same opinion in person.
I dislike a system where certain individuals have more rights than others based on hereditary rights rather than merit.
It's people that support a society that rewards hereditary rights that are ignorant
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These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....
You know you are right, they ARE lucky they dealt with the English and French rather than the Spanish. They are also lucky that the French and British and later the British and Americans were in such stiff competition against each other, and that the British (who ultimately claimed sovereignty over their land) wanted to make sure the First Nations people supported them and did not side with their enemies when push came to shove. However lucky they were, their rights to live here and to hunt and fish in the land of their ancestors was recognized by your own sovereign, and therefore you have to live with that. Until they sign a treaty, you are living in land that was promised to them as their "hunting grounds" and until such time, you should be thankful that you are dealing with them, and not with a people that truly believes they "own" Park Royal, or you would not be fishing there at all, weirs or no weirs. Furthermore, you have as many "hereditary rights" as any First Nations person does. Our Constitution grants you numerous rights based on you simply having being born a Canadian. Your arguments to assimilate them into Canadian culture to make them "equal" is the same arguments the Americans made when invading Canada in 1812. While you may think it is for their own good and in their best interests, it is THEIR right to choose how and when they join Canada as "equals." Since you are unable to give them back their land, and they must remain on a reservation, the size and location of which your own government determined, then your government is obligated to provide the services they promised to provide until such time as they agree to join Canadian Society. While we were able to repell the American invasion in 1812 (with considerable help from the British regulars), and were not forced to live on reservations until we agreed to join American Society, The First Nations were not so lucky. I am sure they would love you to treat them as "equals" and let them have their country back, but since you are not willing to do that, we must try to find a way to bring them into our society, but it will be on their own terms, not ours.
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Sandman - another voice of reason
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lINxla-YuU&list=UUmQO7Oko8nmr9YnsOaI60iA&index=1&feature=plcp
I cant watch the video. It says private
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Today's Indians should be thankful that Captain George didn't kill all of them . He no doubt could of and as others have hinted if it were another person, or organization would of.
That was 1793 for gods sake. 1793. 219 Years ago. I feel for THOSE poor Indians. But it is 2012. In this day and age it is called reverse discrimination. Reverse discrimination is a term referring to discrimination against members of a dominant or MAJORITY group, in this case non Indian, or in favor of members of a minority or historically disadvantaged group. Identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it.
I can understand the Indians wanting to preserve their way of life. I am jealous as hell. I just don't get it though. If I had of fought to maintain the way of life "we" had in the 70's I would have been called a racist. It would be great to have affordable housing, smaller class sizes in school, lots of trees and beautiful wilderness. I would love to go back to the few people we had on the rivers with abundant fish. The few rules we had to deal with limits, gear etc. The fishing was amazing. The reality of the situation is times change. The world evolved. Immigration occurred. Over population has happened. And I or we have had to deal with it. Looking at it now I guess I should of acted like the Indians. Preserved my way of life. Stayed entitled.
Maybe the time is now to actually do something as small as it may be. That area below that bridge. Is it designated Indian only land? I know we will have very different ideas whether it is or not. Are non Indian allowed on that piece of river? If we are I would be willing to go in there with a group and remove those weirs. Will anybody join me?
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Does anybody have a copy of that video? I really wanted a copy. Damn missed it by a few hours.
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Wow that killed a day of drama, guess they got tired of seein the comments on the video. Some were good :o
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Seriously? We've taken practically 100% of their land. In BC, only .4% of the land are First Nations Reserves (technically and legally, reservation land is still owned by the federal govt). In exchange they have a few rights including some fishing rights. Talk about one sided. There is no need to even talk about discrimination (reverse or not). When I saw the video, I see a bunch of people having a good time harvesting fish, doing what's within their rights, and not hurting other people. Just let them have the fish. The rain will come and the bulk of the run will make it up to the hatchery. Both sides will get their fish.
http://www.canada.com/business/Should+First+Nations+reserve+have+property+rights+Here+primer/7054647/story.html
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Seriously? We've taken practically 100% of their land. In BC, only .4% of the land are First Nations Reserves (technically and legally, reservation land is still owned by the federal govt). In exchange they have a few rights including some fishing rights. Talk about one sided. There is no need to even talk about discrimination (reverse or not). When I saw the video, I see a bunch of people having a good time harvesting fish, doing what's within their rights, and not hurting other people. Just let them have the fish.
http://www.canada.com/business/Should+First+Nations+reserve+have+property+rights+Here+primer/7054647/story.html
So far, from what I have seen in this thread, the thread on FLYBC, the Comments on the video, it is purely a case of people whining in order to whine. Rodney brought up the only valid argument, that they appeared to be offing the fish so quickly, mis-id'ing the fish was possible. Aside from that, people have whined about the rights of the natives, whether they acted like jackasses or not, and whether they should or should not be allowed to use weirs and net the fish. Oh also, I read about someone complaining because they killed the fish. KILLED THE FISH! These people were not fishing, they are not supposed to handle the fish with care to C&R them, it was a harvest. There was excitment due to the amount of fish. It was not tactful and graceful, but nothing done was wrong. Well, the stomping of fish is kind of disrespectful, but that falls under jackassery imo. You have fishyfish talking about taking the weirs down, and some people making threats. It really baffles my mind that people are that up in arms, over natives taking hatchery fish. If they were wild, and actually screwing over the run of fish, I could see it. But they are hatchery fish. They were PUT there, TO TAKE. Because sporties cant get those fish, everyone freaks out.
This really blew my mind to see so much BS. I dont know about anyone else, but some of the responses here, and most on the video comments section disgusted me a hell of a lot more than the video itself.
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Today's Indians should be thankful that Captain George didn't kill all of them . He no doubt could of and as others have hinted if it were another person, or organization would of.
Really? He could have? With the all but 153 men he left England with, some of whom undoubtedly died along the way and those still alive would have been in rough shape after 3 years at sea given the deplorable conditions on those ships? No, more likely George was thankful those 50 odd natives paddling out to his ships came bearing gifts of smoked salmon and not weapons. Thankful that their more numerous population (the native population of Howe Sound before contact is estimated to be in the tens of thousands before small pox wiped out 1/3 of their population in 1770) had a prophecy that the coming of a strange group of people would precipitate a calamity to follow and chose to offer gifts to these newcomers to try to avoid the calamity. They could have just as easily decided to chase them off or even destroy them to avoid the prophetic calamity, but George was thankful they did not. In fact there would not be a Canada today, if the First Nations across the country had not been so welcoming of these small groups of Europeans, and so willing to share their land with them. The first explorers owed their lives to the good will of the natives that showed them how to survive the harsh winters, showed them what local plants were safe to eat, and provided them with food to replenish their stores for the return journey. Those First Nations had no idea of millions of greedy people waiting back home to come and take advantage of their hospitality, to steal everything they had, and then to whine and complain that they want to save a few of their "entitlements" in an attempt to preserve their cultural identity in their own land now dominated by a culture not their own in a country of which they had no say in its creation.
That was 1793 for gods sake. 1793. 219 Years ago. I feel for THOSE poor Indians. But it is 2012. In this day and age it is called reverse discrimination. Reverse discrimination is a term referring to discrimination against members of a dominant or MAJORITY group, in this case non Indian, or in favor of members of a minority or historically disadvantaged group. Identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it.
The problem here is that YOU are not being discriminated against in order to preserve their right to fish. You have lost nothing to preserve their right. Reverse discrimination applies when I give a FN applicant a job that you wanted when you were more qualified just because she is FN. But you lost nothing to allow them to fish, no more than you are discriminated against to give a commercial fisherman the right to catch salmon with a net when you are only allowed the use of a hook and line. You still have your own rights, they are just not the same as theirs. The problem you have is understanding that our Country was created on a fundamental injustice and we a still trying to figure out how to come to a place where we (FN and Canadians) can both exist in the same place. Forcing them to accept that they are Canadians just like us (however brilliant that seems to us) would be no different than the Chinese marching in here and telling you that you must accept that you are now Chinese just like them.
I can understand the Indians wanting to preserve their way of life. I am jealous as hell. I just don't get it though. If I had of fought to maintain the way of life "we" had in the 70's I would have been called a racist. It would be great to have affordable housing, smaller class sizes in school, lots of trees and beautiful wilderness. I would love to go back to the few people we had on the rivers with abundant fish. The few rules we had to deal with limits, gear etc. The fishing was amazing. The reality of the situation is times change. The world evolved. Immigration occurred. Over population has happened. And I or we have had to deal with it. Looking at it now I guess I should of acted like the Indians. Preserved my way of life. Stayed entitled.
Yes! You should have! and it is not too late! Write letters to your government! To the Newspapers! To anyone who will listen! Demand affordable housing! Demand smaller class sizes! Fight to protect the few remaining trees and wilderness areas left! Preserve your way of life! Do NOT roll over! You ARE entitled!
Maybe the time is now to actually do something as small as it may be. That area below that bridge. Is it designated Indian only land? I know we will have very different ideas whether it is or not. Are non Indian allowed on that piece of river? If we are I would be willing to go in there with a group and remove those weirs. Will anybody join me?
Yes that land is on their Reserve, the small scrap of land your government set aside for them to live if they wanted to maintain their status as an "Indian". Non natives are allowed on that piece of river only with permission of the band. The weir is, of course, in the middle of the river which is not technically native land, but you would need to cross native land to get to it to vandalize it. I would hope that no one else would join you, but good luck as I am sure the native lads would defend it vigorously.
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Ya good luck with taking those weirs out, the FN will make short work of anyone who trys and they should.
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Ya good luck with taking those weirs out, the FN will make short work of anyone who trys and they should.
Slightly ridiculous to suggest that violence(or whatever you intend by "short work") is a good course of action for anyone to take in this situation.
Not necessarily taking a side here but it just seems a bit off to support a violent response by either side. Neither side would be right in that case.
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What are you guys whining about? The river has been unfishable for legit fishers at like 0 feet for the last couple of months. If you think that the weirs are limiting your fishing opportunities then you are out to lunch. Keep your powder dry and wait for it to rain.
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Are FN's only allowed to capture fish like this in the part of the Cap that runs through the reserve or can they snag or net fish anywhere in the Cap?
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You can argue native rights until you are blue in the face but it doesn't matter !!! These fish are being illegally sold out of the back of pickup trucks, not used for food and ceremony. The hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody, not to be penned in a weir and sold illegally.
Really? You know this for a fact do you? All these fish were sold out of a pickup truck? None were eaten by these or any other natives? None were used for ceremonial purposes? Is that a fact? Or are you making another blatant generalization because you saw a native selling fish before? I saw a guy beat his dog, so you must beat your dog too, eh? Poor animal. The SPCA should take it away from you to save it. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? People of every race break the law. Any native selling salmon out of a pickup truck is stealing from the band. No different than a sporty knowingly bonking a wild fish. Doesn't mean all sporties should have the licenses taken away.
The hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody,
Yes, the hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody, and the sporties and commercial guys out in the chuck already had their crack at them, now it is the native's turn.
not to be penned in a weir
And by what right do you have to determine how they catch their salmon? These are not recreational fishermen, and their ancestors used weirs since time immemorial. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did not use metal shopping carts, but then your grandpa did not use graphite rods and flourocarbon leaders either.
and sold illegally.
Again, you have not shown any evidence that in this case this is anything but racist slander.
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Can't really blame the FN for fishing like that. They are allowed to do it. If people have a problem with it they need to get mad at the government for allowing it. And lets face it, we all say it's brutal and bad but if we were allowed to do it I'm sure there'd be weirs all over the cap. Look at how many people snag fish at dog leg and cable pool that aren't FN.
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Can't really blame the FN for fishing like that. They are allowed to do it. If people have a problem with it they need to get mad at the government for allowing it. And lets face it, we all say it's brutal and bad but if we were allowed to do it I'm sure there'd be weirs all over the cap. Look at how many people snag fish at dog leg and cable pool that aren't FN.
The DFO has long discussed the use of weirs in a terminal fishery to try to help manage the stock more precisely. The logistics just have not allowed it so far.
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Have thought about responding to the topic, but the Sandman has said it all gracefully and with a lot of class! Well done sandman! ;)
hotrod
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Really? He could have? With the all but 153 men he left England with, some of whom undoubtedly died along the way and those still alive would have been in rough shape after 3 years at sea given the deplorable conditions on those ships?
Spain conquered the Inca empire with less than 200 men.
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Brutal
These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....
really
what they do is not worst than building a dam in that river.
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It's not how they catch their fish that is the problem, it's what they do with the fish they catch
Rick
Post a video of them selling fish out of the back of their truck and I'll totally be on your side.
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Spain conquered the Inca empire with less than 200 men.
I think I've learned more about history reading this thread than I did throughout all of high school. Granted I was probably busy skipping classes to go fishing :)
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Post a video of them selling fish out of the back of their truck and I'll totally be on your side.
What a pathetic statement. You sound like an undecided voter or something.
You must not get out much if you've never seen the FN guys selling fish.
Heck they even had signs up at 264 exit this year advertising fresh sockeye.
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What a pathetic statement. You sound like an undecided voter or something.
You must not get out much if you've never seen the FN guys selling fish.
Heck they even had signs up at 264 exit this year advertising fresh sockeye.
So because I haven't seen the sign by the 264 exit it's a pathetic statement? And I'm out on the river almost every weekend and haven't seen them selling fish so I wouldn't say they are everywhere. If you see all this going down are you documenting it? Are you letting the DFO know about this? The news? The government? If not then you're the pathetic person letting it slide.
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I can't believe this thread is still up. take it down already. if my memory serves me right a certain thread about a guide was taken down pretty quick. but this thread is allowed to stay up and promote hate and ignorance. yeah glad money trumps human rights.
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So because I haven't seen the sign by the 264 exit it's a pathetic statement? And I'm out on the river almost every weekend and haven't seen them selling fish so I wouldn't say they are everywhere. If you see all this going down are you documenting it? Are you letting the DFO know about this? The news? The government? If not then you're the pathetic person letting it slide.
Have you been living under a rock? No enforcement officer I know of or have heard of has/is willing to go after FN selling fish, full stop.
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So because I haven't seen the sign by the 264 exit it's a pathetic statement? And I'm out on the river almost every weekend and haven't seen them selling fish so I wouldn't say they are everywhere. If you see all this going down are you documenting it? Are you letting the DFO know about this? The news? The government? If not then you're the pathetic person letting it slide.
DFO is a joke! All they say is " don't be confrontational" and to "leave the scene immediately"
Nothing ever gets done... We all know this, this is nothing new.
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Have you been living under a rock? No enforcement officer I know of or have heard of has/is willing to go after FN selling fish, full stop.
Well then instead of getting mad at FN get mad at the government and DFO.
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DFO is a joke! All they say is " don't be confrontational" and to "leave the scene immediately"
Nothing ever gets done... We all know this, this is nothing new.
Totally agree.
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Spain conquered the Inca empire with less than 200 men.
You mean wiped it out with smallpox and measles viruses the Spanish explorers brought to the New World, against which the native population had no natural defense whatsoever.
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DFO is a joke! All they say is " don't be confrontational" and to "leave the scene immediately"
Nothing ever gets done... We all know this, this is nothing new.
lol sooo true
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You mean wiped it out with smallpox and measles viruses the Spanish explorers brought to the New World, against which the native population had no natural defense whatsoever.
Not to mention the civil war that wreaked havoc on the Inca economy and decimated the population that had survived the epidemics. The Spanish conquistadors under Pizarro were also professional soldiers with calvary (horses were unheard of in the Americas before them) whereas Vancouver's crew were not. Pizarro's crew had also not just arrived in the Americas after a 3 year journey, they were already living a comfortable life in the Spanish colony of Panama.
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You mean wiped it out with smallpox and measles viruses the Spanish explorers brought to the New World, against which the native population had no natural defense whatsoever.
You should read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
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You should read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
Half way through it, myself. Very interesting...
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I cant watch the video. It says private
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuseR1aYsDc&feature=youtu.be
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuseR1aYsDc&feature=youtu.be
nice
some good pot stirring skills!!!!
::)
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You should read Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
Glad that book is still being read. Been out for some time now but still a very engaging read.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuseR1aYsDc&feature=youtu.be
Thanks Dennis.
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How many of those guys that are bonkin fish looked like true first nations people?
Thanks Dennis.