Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: chris gadsden on September 07, 2012, 06:05:23 AM
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Not sure if many of you have been to the Bridge River area on the Fraser River to see the First Nations drying racks. Their season is just wrapping up but they do offer tours in season. I shot this brief video from above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faf7YChHJHw&feature=share&list=UU_4LtEFjHj-ulBHuoq6COmQ
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Very interesting video Chris. I was expecting a lot more activity and to see some people moving about. It shows the natives living and doing what they've done for centuries along the banks of the mighty Fraser. Thanks for posting !!!
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It shows the natives living and doing what they've done for centuries along the banks of the mighty Fraser. Thanks for posting !!!
Of course....using powerboats and the comforts of modern technology to catch their fish has always been a native tradition ::)
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Of course....using powerboats and the comforts of modern technology to catch their fish has always been a native tradition ::)
Why is it the someone always has to post this nonsense? This comment is predicated on, or at the very least is going to foster, the belief that the First Nations culture, including their technology, was stagnant when Europeans arrived with their more "advanced" technology and therefore First Nations' culture and traditions cannot possibly grow and evolve, like all civilizations do when they come in contact with a new civilization and new technology. The First Nations' right to fish has nothing to do with the technology they use, but with their rights as a sovereign people to not have their culture completely eradicated by a conquering power. The fact that their traditional technology (air drying) is just as effective, or more effective) today as more "modern" technologies (salting, freezing, etc) is a testament to their cultural ingenuity at the time of contact.
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Why is it the someone always has to post this nonsense? This comment is predicated on, or at the very least is going to foster, the belief that the First Nations culture, including their technology, was stagnant when Europeans arrived with their more "advanced" technology and therefore First Nations' culture and traditions cannot possibly grow and evolve, like all civilizations do when they come in contact with a new civilization and new technology. The First Nations' right to fish has nothing to do with the technology they use, but with their rights as a sovereign people to not have their culture completely eradicated by a conquering power. The fact that their traditional technology (air drying) is just as effective, or more effective) today as more "modern" technologies (salting, freezing, etc) is a testament to their cultural ingenuity at the time of contact.
X2, Well said Sandman !
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Very interesting video Chris. I was expecting a lot more activity and to see some people moving about. It shows the natives living and doing what they've done for centuries along the banks of the mighty Fraser. Thanks for posting !!!
Not many people around as season was near the end. Would be nice to go and observe when the fishing is on. I believe most of the capture is done by dip nets from the shore. A very rough area as far as stream flows go. One First Nation person stopped while I was cooking supper, where I filmed from and he said some racks got washed away during the high water of 2012.
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It would sure be interesting to see them using the dip nets, I've never seen it before. And thats what I was thinking Chris was that although right now its approachable I could of just imagined how it was a month or two before. It would be scarey to see, I'm sure.
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It would sure be interesting to see them using the dip nets, I've never seen it before. And thats what I was thinking Chris was that although right now its approachable I could of just imagined how it was a month or two before. It would be scarey to see, I'm sure.
They put on tours as I mentioned, maybe we get Rodney to charter a bus for FWR subscribers. ;D ;D
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Thanks Chris, one of my favorite snacks along with dried seaweed and a cold beverage or two!!!
Maybe traditional orange juice ;)
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Of course....using powerboats and the comforts of modern technology to catch their fish has always been a native tradition ::)
No kidding, eh, Robert? ???
Those godless heathens the Indians...how dare they invoke their traditions, yet use modern technology? You'd rather have them confined to reservations (wait, they already are!) and have their kids taken to Christian residential schools where the teachings of Jesus Christ are to be shoved up their butts (sometimes literally!). >:(
Following your analogy, Christian missionaries today should go spread the word of JC only on foot, by boat and horse carriage, never by plane. And those darn priests giving the Sunday mass - how dare they use microphones and PA systems to spread the word of God? By your same token, Billy Graham should have shunned TV and radio, for they are also comforts of modern technology.
Give your head a shake, Robert. ::)
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No kidding, eh, Robert? ???
Those godless heathens the Indians...how dare they invoke their traditions, yet use modern technology? You'd rather have them confined to reservations (wait, they already are!) and have their kids taken to Christian residential schools where the teachings of Jesus Christ are to be shoved up their butts (sometimes literally!). >:(
Following your analogy, Christian missionaries today should go spread the word of JC only on foot, by boat and horse carriage, never by plane. And those darn priests giving the Sunday mass - how dare they use microphones and PA systems to spread the word of God? By your same token, Billy Graham should have shunned TV and radio, for they are also comforts of modern technology.
Give your head a shake, Robert. ::)
Well said Milo, well said.
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No kidding, eh, Robert? ???
Those godless heathens the Indians...how dare they invoke their traditions, yet use modern technology? You'd rather have them confined to reservations (wait, they already are!) and have their kids taken to Christian residential schools where the teachings of Jesus Christ are to be shoved up their butts (sometimes literally!). >:(
Following your analogy, Christian missionaries today should go spread the word of JC only on foot, by boat and horse carriage, never by plane. And those darn priests giving the Sunday mass - how dare they use microphones and PA systems to spread the word of God? By your same token, Billy Graham should have shunned TV and radio, for they are also comforts of modern technology.
Give your head a shake, Robert. ::)
..delete...delete...delete.
Crap like this isn't even worth responding too. I will say this though.....whether you like it or not, special interest groups will be completely abolished one day soon. I look forward to that day greatly. Until this happens though, you can continue living as a doormat.
Edit....even though Sandman has about as little backbone as you do....at least he can be polite.
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..delete...delete...delete.
Crap like this isn't even worth responding too. I will say this though.....whether you like it or not, special interest groups will be completely abolished one day soon. I look forward to that day greatly. Until this happens though, you can continue living as a doormat.
Edit....even though Sandman has about as little backbone as you do....at least he can be polite.
Well not sure about the doormat (or the backbone), but I, too, look forward to that day Robert, but with trepidation, as I will either be cheering or weeping on that day, for that day will mark the day when the interests of those minorities (for whom those "special interest groups" advocate) will be protected once and for all, and so the need for their advocacy will be no more...or else it will be the day that the will of the majority tramples, once and for all, the rights of the minority. BTW, it takes far more backbone to stand up in the face of the majority and fight for the interests of the minority than it does to stand with the crowd and shout down at the minority.
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..delete...delete...delete.
Crap like this isn't even worth responding too.
I will say this though.....whether you like it or not, special interest groups will be completely abolished one day soon. I look forward to that day greatly. Until this happens though, you can continue living as a doormat.
Edit....even though Sandman has about as little backbone as you do....at least he can be polite.
Robert G into English translation: "faced with the irrefutability of Sandman's and Milo's arguments, I have no choice but to pretend I had written a sensible reply and then deleted it."
Of course, Robert wouldn't go down without throwing at us a choice personal attack.
How unchristian of him - shame on him.
Being the (im)polite guy I am, I will only reply that I myself can't wait for the day when special interest groups be abolished, beginning with all organized religious groups.
edited to add: Sandman, your response to Robert G was very classy and very well thought of. Although you and I sometimes don't see eye to eye, my hat is off to you on this one, sir.
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No kidding, eh, Robert? ???
Those godless heathens the Indians...how dare they invoke their traditions, yet use modern technology? You'd rather have them confined to reservations (wait, they already are!) and have their kids taken to Christian residential schools where the teachings of Jesus Christ are to be shoved up their butts (sometimes literally!). >:(
Following your analogy, Christian missionaries today should go spread the word of JC only on foot, by boat and horse carriage, never by plane. And those darn priests giving the Sunday mass - how dare they use microphones and PA systems to spread the word of God? By your same token, Billy Graham should have shunned TV and radio, for they are also comforts of modern technology.
Give your head a shake, Robert. ::)
Hard to comprehend how a discussion of FN drying racks could bring on a blasphemous rant about Jesus Christ, probably the most important individual in recorded history. I hear your disdain for religion, but I don't think it belongs in this discussion.
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Hard to comprehend how a discussion of FN drying racks could bring on a blasphemous rant about Jesus Christ, probably the most important individual in recorded history. I hear your disdain for religion, but I don't think it belongs in this discussion.
I am sorry that you felt offended by my comment.
It goes a few years back...to another time...another forum...same poster...similar racist remarks, similar personal attacks.
Yes, I feel strong disdain for any and all organized religion, but nowhere did I say anything negative about Jesus Christ - ever.
I have no beef with Jesus whatsoever. What raises my hackles is what evil/ignorant/misguided people have done in his name in the 2000+ years since (and continue to do, sadly).
As for my comments not belonging in this discussion...I don't know...when somebody makes a blatantly racist comment about the very same people this thread is about, it is certain to elicit a passionate response or two - some classy, some not.
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As for my comments not belonging in this discussion...I don't know...when somebody makes a blatantly racist comment about the very same people this thread is about, it is certain to elicit a passionate response or two - some classy, some not.
I didn't realize that wanting equality among all people was racist....but since you say its so....then it must be true ::)
When it comes right down to it, the people who demand that special groups have their hand held and be given hand outs for life.....I would say that those are the people who are being discrimitory and racist.
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I am sorry that you felt offended by my comment.
It goes a few years back...to another time...another forum...same poster...similar racist remarks, similar personal attacks.
Yes, I feel strong disdain for any and all organized religion, but nowhere did I say anything negative about Jesus Christ - ever.
I have no beef with Jesus whatsoever. What raises my hackles is what evil/ignorant/misguided people have done in his name in the 2000+ years since (and continue to do, sadly).
Fair enough, however over history there have been many, many great things done in His name as well.
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.....the people who demand that special groups have their hand held and be given hand outs for life.....
That's one of the most belittling and condescending statements about FN I've ever heard. You need to do some serious reading and try to understand the special place that FNs hold both socially, legally and culturally in greater Canada. Wishing for "complete assimilation" and cultural erasure because they have the legal right to more fish than you is just silly. Like a fish cop once said to me, "they are, after all, just fish".
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I didn't realize that wanting equality among all people was racist....but since you say its so....then it must be true ::)
Equality would mean giving FNs back all the land that rightfully belonged to them at the time of first contact and was forcefully taken from them. Equality would mean fully compensating them financially for the resources pillaged from that land in the name of God and the King/Queen du jour. Equality would mean to magically make disappear the consequences of centuries of injustice inflicted upon FNs... I could go on and on, but I am resigned to the fact that no matter how much I or anybody else writes, no one can't fix obtuse. The light must come from within.
So let's agree to disagree on this one and move on.
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Only to some alwaysfishing, you are allowed your opinion. Mine may vary. ;D
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Equality would mean giving FNs back all the land that rightfully belonged to them at the time of first contact and was forcefully taken from them.
FN did not believe in land "belonging" to them so it may be a bit tough to follow your idealistic advice! That is / was essentially the whole problem - if the land "belonged" to them in the first place settlers could have made a FAIR trade for it and you would have no grounds for such animosity.
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FN did not believe in land "belonging" to them so it may be a bit tough to follow your idealistic advice! That is / was essentially the whole problem - if the land "belonged" to them in the first place settlers could have made a FAIR trade for it and you would have no grounds for such animosity.
Correct.
Poor choice of words on my part.
Thanks for the clarification.
I should have said "put the management of the land and resources back in the hands of FNs" or something along those lines.
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Correct.
Poor choice of words on my part.
Thanks for the clarification.
I should have said "put the management of the land and resources back in the hands of FNs" or something along those lines.
Milo....it's not the 1800s anymore. This is the situation we have today and your ideas aren't realistic for this day and age. We all live here together.....and we all must learn to share equally.
That means everyone should have the right to work, pay taxes, buy and sell property, etc, etc. Why should one person expect to receive more than another without working for it?
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Coho are in the river. Gentlemen and fishermen, pick up your rods and charge! Why worry about these heavy baggages of race and religion. Enough said that FN has been mis-treated in the days of old and are being compensated by more reasonable folks today and that should be fine, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he died on the cross for us, and that His teachings, if practiced in all honesty to His original intent, would spare the world of its misery we see today. Now the Vedder is full of coho at some section. Heard of 4 caught by one guy last week. Let's charge down the river and leave these heavy subjects to the politicians and the religious authorities. ;) ;D
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Coho are in the river. Gentlemen and fishermen, pick up your rods and charge! Why worry about these heavy baggages of race and religion. Enough said that FN has been mis-treated in the days of old and are being compensated by more reasonable folks today and that should be fine, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he died on the cross for us, and that His teachings, if practiced in all honesty to His original intent, would spare the world of its misery we see today. Now the Vedder is full of coho at some section. Heard of 4 caught by one guy last week. Let's charge down the river and leave these heavy subjects to the politicians and the religous authorities. ;) ;D
Best post on this thread!
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Milo....it's not the 1800s anymore. This is the situation we have today and your ideas aren't realistic for this day and age. We all live here together.....and we all must learn to share equally.
That means everyone should have the right to work, pay taxes, buy and sell property, etc, etc. Why should one person expect to receive more than another without working for it?
So why the eye roll and comment about TRADITIONAL METHODS of fishing !!!!! ???
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Milo....it's not the 1800s anymore. This is the situation we have today and your ideas aren't realistic for this day and age. We all live here together.....and we all must learn to share equally.
That means everyone should have the right to work, pay taxes, buy and sell property, etc, etc. Why should one person expect to receive more than another without working for it?
The problem, Robert, is that British Columbians voted in 1871 to join Canada and participate in your system of "work, pay taxes, buy and sell property, etc, etc." and those that immigrated to Canada also made a choice to participate in that system. However, the FN people living here did not, and until they do, they have as much right to live their lives any damn well way they please. Our government, from the King that claimed sovereignty over this land, down to the parliament of this new nation, have always recognized that these people have a right to self determination, and so we cannot say now that well, enough time has past now so we can ignore your rights and force you to accept our way of life and assimilate you into our culture. So unless you are willing to move your my friend out of their territory and let them live their lives however they see fit, you are going to have to live with the fact that until a deal is reached through the treaty process, and they join our country as citizens on their own terms (BC was called as the Spoilt Child of Confederation due the exorbitant demands its citizens made to join Confederation), we are going to have to support them on the tiny reserves WE created for them (FN reserves in BC are the smallest in Canada and FN have the highest levels of child poverty and unemployment as well).
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When I posted this I thought there would be hardly any comments and I get back from 5 days of hunting and fishing and wow. ::)
I am now scared to post some video of what I filmed this time but some video of a bear feeding should be OK? ;D ;D
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Yes Chris, it sured veered off course quickly as politics, race and religion entered into what was an interesting and quite innocent video you put up. Oh well, hopefully the people involved got their moneys worth. Thanks for posting the vid, I enjoyed it and look forward to many more.
Have a Great weekend Everyone and Good Fishing All !!!
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Unlike most of you I've actually eaten Aboriginal dried Salmon-it ain't the easiest food to like.
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I've eaten lots and like it ....unlike most of you !!?? ???
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(FN reserves in BC are the smallest in Canada and FN have the highest levels of child poverty and unemployment as well).
Surely high levels of child unemployment is a good thing!?!
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Surely high levels of child unemployment is a good thing!?!
Sorry, would "high levels of unemployment and child poverty" been clearer for you?
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Sorry, would "high levels of unemployment and child poverty" been clearer for you?
Yes, much clearer thanks. I guess you left your sense of humor behind this morning.
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Yes, much clearer thanks. I guess you left your sense of humor behind this morning.
Yeah, sorry, I guess I find neither amusing.