Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: Floon on May 12, 2004, 11:03:14 PM
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Fly fishing the long line.
Well we’ve heard it before and we’ll hear it again: Trolling isn’t fly fishing.
While it’s not truly in the clinical sense fly fishing, i.e.: casting and retrieving from an anchored boat, it IS an effective way to target trout in a lake. Not only is it a good technique but it at times out produces any other method both in size and in numbers of fish!
Here’s the deal.
How many anglers can cast their entire line?? Not many. Trolling is a way we as anglers can utilize the full potential of the longest cast and retrieve your line will allow. Positioned correctly this way of fishing can and is one of the most deadly of all fly fishing.
What I am talking about is using flies, lines of different weights and fly patterns that simulate a few if not many aquatic foods to catch fish in many if not all bodies of water.
Lines
There are many lines on the market designed to sink at different rates that enable a troller to target fish at different depths in the water column. The ability to get and keep your fly in the fish “zone” is critical when casting and retrieving and when trolling it is no different. Keep in mind the depths listed are based on have ¾ to all the line off the spool.
Floating line
This line is the ticket for anchored fishermen targeting still sitting aquatics that barely/seldom move at all. In my opinion this line is best left out of trolling because of surface disturbance when it is being pulled along. Not that it won’t catch fish, but more that big educated fish are wary of anything that is breaking the surface tension and thus can spook the more schooled guys from your offering. (Read big ones)
Type 1
This is the line a troller should use in lieu of a floater as it fishes the same depth(s) as a floating line without the surface disturbance. These lines are the most productive in the interior when fishing among trophy trout. This line will run in the top of the water column, from 1 to 5’ down.
Type 2
This line is my go-to line in the trolling. With all the line out (70’) your bait is running about 8 to 12‘deep. This is ideal for transition areas at shoals above drop off areas. Most of them are clear (Stillwater, slime line) so they are great for clear water found at these vantage points.
Type 3 through 6
These are for targeting fish in deeper lies, such as the drop off areas and deep water from 14’ down to just about as deep as your line is long, depending upon the speed you are running your craft at. A type 3 line will run from 12 to 14’ deep, a type 4, 14 to 16’ deep, while a type 6 will go down to 20’or more. Again this depends upon the speed you are traveling during your presentation.
Trolling speeds
The biggest problem most fly fishermen have regardless whether they are casting and retrieving or trolling is that they move their offering much faster than the naturals. The best thing an angler can do is SLOW DOWN!!! If you find you are snagging up, instead of increasing your speed, a change of line to something with a slower sink rate is a much better option. The best thing that has come along in a long time for the trolling angler is the float tube because it forces you to go slower. When trolling in a boat, try to match your speed with that of a tube angler. Once you have it down you can maintain it by keeping your eye on the shoreline to gauge your progress and speed of movement. After a time you will be able to almost ignore the shore all together and use the bend in your rod blank to tell just how fast you are moving. This won’t happen right away but as you perfect your technique with practice it will become almost second nature.
When using oars, try to keep away from constantly oaring but rather use short even strokes every few seconds with plenty of glide time in between. It is even beneficial to let the craft come to a standstill before dipping the oars again.
When using an electric motor, rather than using one constant speed, use a bit higher setting and “bump” the boat along with short bursts, again maintaining the approximate speed of a tuber.
Coping with wind
Remember keeping your offering in the proper area is the key to your success. When faced with wind, the best thing is to use your mode of propulsion to hold not only your speed but also to keep you in, on, or around the structure you are trying to cover. You have probably heard the term quartering into the wind, well this is in fact a way to hold your position while the wind is at your back. You propelling measures are then utilized not only to move you along the water but also to hold your position off shore. If the wind is coming from the rear then “back trolling” is in order to maintain your desired position. This can be done with either oars or an electric motor. The electric can be used in reverse or even spun around 180 degrees, and the oars can be used to scull backwards. In the float tube, it becomes a little more difficult because you haven’t a reverse option. Instead try extending your legs out and pointing your flippers down to create as much drag in the water as possible.
Where to fish
The ideal thing to do is to find the transition area where the shoal area drops into deeper water. The fish will cruise in the deeper water and move on to the shoals to feed and you want to intercept them as they make this journey. The way to identify this area is to be able to see bottom on one side of your craft and darker, deeper water on the other. If you feel the fish are deeper then change lines and move off the shallower water a bit and resume your search. This will take a bit of practice to judge just how far one should be for each line used without snagging but once you get the knack of it, the fun really begins. Of course a depth sounder is handy for this but definitely not an essential. Most lakes I fish I know the bottom depths through trial and error so well that I never use one unless I am fishing a new lake.
Flies
It is best to choose patterns that are suggestive of many different trout food sources rather than exact imitations. Animated materials such a mohair, pheasant rump and marabou are great choices for lively patterns and beads and forward weight on flies are great for getting an undulating motion. Don’t forget flash and sparkle. They simulate motion too. Here is a short list of my favorite patterns. There are many more to choose from, but this is just to give an idea of what to look for.
Leech patterns
Wooly Buggers
Hares ear nymphs
Sparkle shrimp
52 Buick
Carey Specials
Doc Spratley
Georgi Damsel
Tom Thumb (This is the only fly that I recommend trolling on a floating line. It can be and is deadly when the traveling sedges are about!)
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Good read, thanks floon
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Hey Floon I don't know where you get your info from. Must be from the elitist fly fishing fraternity. On page 8 item 21 reads:
Fly Fishing ... angling with a line to which only an artificial fly is attached.
No mention of presentation style, rod or line type.
One of the first myths I address in my fly fishing classes is the difference between fly fishing (fishing a fly) and fly casting. I believe it does not matter how you choose to present your fly; fly cast, hand line, spincast, drift, troll, or float, if there is a fly at the end of the line, you are fly fishing. While fly casting may be an effective method of delivering a fly to the water, it is no guarantee that you will catch fish. It's how you fish that fly that catches the fish.
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Oops that was item 21 page 8 of your BC Freshwater regulations synopsis
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Well if thats called fly fishing then what do you call the guy at Lafarge lake tonight standing in front of a buisy walkway full of people with his back cast flicking in between people dogs and kids? Moron.
And thanks for the read Floon.
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laughing out loud
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First let me say I was unaware this board was broken up in this way. Secondly I would like to thank the readers of this post and the feed back. I am toying with writing a book on just this subject. As for the hair splitting when it comes to what IS and IS'NT flyfishing, well I choose to do what WORKS and maximize my time on the water. Granted, these days I do almost ALL of my fishing from an anchored craft, but until you can cast 75 to 90% of your line you are at a strict disadvantage as a fly angler on still waters. Thats just the facts.
This post was meant to encourage the use of flies in the trolling arena. Simply put, with Kamloops trout you are more likely to hook a good 'un with these methods than spoon or bait fishing and even at times, out fish the anchored elitest as you are simply covering more water.:)
Remember they are (Kamloops strain) bug eaters first and foremost.
Thank you for checking this out. I really enjoy the feed back!
Flooney*
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Great read R,
namhsuB :)
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thanks for the info floon
its something im trying to work on lol
but im going to read that a few times more
cnm
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Fly trolling in the belly boat ,has worked wonders for me over the years. ;D
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Well if thats called fly fishing then what do you call the guy at Lafarge lake tonight standing in front of a buisy walkway full of people with his back cast flicking in between people dogs and kids? Moron.
And thanks for the read Floon.
I call him a cross between fanatic and foolish.
One time I heard that Trout Lake in Burnaby had a stocking of broods and I figured what the heck. :P
I got out there at about 6 am and figured I would have some time before the dog walkers showed up. I managed 5 nice trout of about 1-3 #s before I was in danger of casting someone's palmeranian into the drink from it chasing my back cast. ;D
We all get a little stir crazy at times. Don't blame the angler, it's an addiction. ;D
That being said I don't believe in flycasting when it endangers people around you. Could be also why I gave up casting barbell weighted flies. THAT was a danger to ME! ::)
Flooney*
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I don't have a Ford. Will a Chev fender work. ;D
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You know I can't think of a single reason why you couldn't troll a fly behind a flasher at all. Not a foolish question by any means. Of course if you have a Chev fender and it's attached to the truck I suggest it would be better off as an ANCHOR anyway! ;)
The only thing you would be lacking, and this is purely a point of veiw because I have NO business telling anybody how to catch fish unless they are doing so outside the regulations, is that the whole thing about using fly rods, and lines, less any hardware, is the connection one feels with the fish and the light tippet involved so as to enhance the action of a fighting fish to the point that it's just you, the rod, and frail tippet, and your skill to land them under these hair raising circumstances. :) Whew, that was one Looong fricken sentence!!! :D
Usually the fight of a fish is somewhat dampened by a willow leaf or flasher if you prefer because you have to have line heavy enough to handle both so the fear of breaking off is much less though definitely not non existant. Also when fishing with the fly you have two things working against you from the out set. One being the tippet strength which we have already covered and the other is the fact that you use a single action reel. This means you have to A: strip the fish in and deal with the possibility of tangles when it decides to run, B: do a combination of strpping and alternating reeling to get the fish on the reel to play it using the drag system and when you do, C: your reel has the ability to regain about 4" of line per revolution rather than a multiple pick up so you have to be on the ball to say the least!! :)
Combine all these things and for me it lends itself to a hair raising experience that is similar to the rush when you ride a roller coaster. You figure you know the out come but there is always that possibility of things going horribly wrong.
This feeling of helplessness and power in the same instant is what hooked me and keeps me coming back so often! Once that line straightens out weather I am trolling or casting and retreiving the feeling of "anything can happen" is the rush that is the be all end all. The fish are just a bonus, the trepidation of the hunt is everything.
Cheers!!
Flooney*
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Nice read :D
but until you can cast 75 to 90% of your line you are at a strict disadvantage as a fly angler on still waters
I think this hints at why you recommend trolling a type II line versus the type III. Previous advice I was given, was to troll a type III as the 'go to' line, but no mention of how far out to troll the fly. So my guess is that you troll the fly as far as you can from the boat to give enough time between you splashing past and the fly being presented. So a type II on a long line would fish the same depth as a type III on a shorter line?
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Good thread guys :D
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M Boy, the reasoning behind why you should run a type 3 was because they figured you were "outside" the know :-[
The truth is EVERY line has it's uses and should be considered for every outing regardless.
Water temp/clarity,>>> fishing is a game of bending yourself to the conditions NOT trying to make the conditions agree with your presentation or line/retrieve choice.
If one has little success then CHANGE your presentation!!!
This is why Budvar and I agree that fisging reports amount to NADA!!!
The truth is barometric changes and other subtle nuances just render them null because you as an angler can experience incredible fishing in a set area and time and while I hate to say it, it possibly will never happen again that season. Or that year for that matter.
The point of this post was to school people to NOT stick to their collective guns and stubbournly fish what "works", but to stimulate you to push the envelope and try some stuff you never even thought would work.
I never thought a # 10 Bitch creek had any business in a lake while flyfishing until I saw a 12# fish eat it.
Food for thought. The best thing an angler can do these days is think OUTSIDE the box!! ;D
Flooney*
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If you are fishing a lake for the first time, the best way to find the fish if they aren't rising is to troll
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Hey, floon! (Are you the same Floon that's causing havoc on FishBC with your "40 inch" trout?)
I've had the best luck trolling as well. I prefer intermediate-sink "slimeline", although it's interesting watching the damselflies try to mate with it... And my "go-to" fly is the same as Milo's: a green sparkle bugger.
As for speed, an electric trolling motor is The Trick (or drifting downwind). Even a small outboard on idle is Too Fast.
I DO feel a bit like I'm "cheating" though, both with trolling and with leeches/buggers. You're supposed to read the water, upturn rocks, examine shucks, pump the stomach of the first fish you catch, then present (with casting and retrieving) the Exact pattern to match what they're eating. Catching fish by tossing in a leech and trolling seems to bypass All That Stuff...
(BTW: like you, I've caught my biggest 'bow retrieving a scud. Unlike you, it was about 3 lb!)
Lloyd
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I caught a small rainbow at Rolley Lake yesterday, trolling a green scud with type III sink tip.
The best part was being rowed around in Jack's kevlar pram and using the 5 wt. he built for me.
Yes, the prized rod that I won at Logan Lake last year ;D
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Yup, Lloyd it's me! ;D
The proof is in the pudding I always say! ;)
Though I wasn't "trolling" just moving myself along the shore, casting and retrieving as I went along. I usually stop when I see a likely spot, using my fins to hold position and fan cast the area starting up shallow, and moving deeper and waiting longer as I begin the retreive to get the fly in relation to the bottom. My favorite line is the one you prefer for this, the Slimeline.
I prefer to be in the boat when fish aren't showing anchored up at both ends and begin shallow with the type one and as I decide to fish deeper in the water column, I switch to the Slime, then the type 3 or four and so on. I rarely fish the dry line unless chironomids are showing, or caddis adults are present.
This allows me the least amount of "dead time" before I begin my retrieve in deeper water(s).
I still like to troll a bit, but for me the casting and retrieving is where it's at these days.
And NEVER be ashamed to use what WORKS!!!! I have about 7 boxes of flies with some very exact imitations and you will still find me fishing a woolly bugger more often than not. 8)
To be successful, it is almost always better to go with a pattern that could be many aquatics rather than just one thing. Hares Ears, woollies, Doc Spratlies, Carey Specials to name just a few. And any colour that takes your fancy is just fine. Just make sure it ain't mauve.
Because that would be gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with that!! ::)
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wow, this is the greatest thing I have read so far in this forum. Thank you much. And I agree that trolling sure works good I trolled
3 different rods, (was with other people in my boat of course ) and guess what? the fly is the one who got the fish. but getting them on a fly rod sure is sweet though, unless you are getting pink ater pink on a small bait caster better on the fly though I suppose. nice post floon
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Trolling with a fly rod, fly line and fly is a method of fly fishing and a productive one at that. The fish dont' care how the fly got there. I like to troll when I'm new water as way to explore the lake, to find fish or when the fish are not responding to casts. Once I find an area where fish are feeding, I anchor and present the fly by casiting. Trolling by rowing is a good way to get the circulation going when it's cold and the bite is slow. No one should ever be ashamed to troll a fly unless they're one of those #$%holes who drag a fly and seem to have little concern about rowing/motoring over the water that you're casting to. I wonder why people get so invested in how another person presents a fly as long as they are respecting others
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Fishing is fishing. Fifteen years ago, people were poo-pooing beads on flies. Epoxy was at one point contentious. And bobbers...errr...strike indicators..:) Now of course they are commonplace, as are many other things that the fly fishing crowd did not want to "taint" their precious pastime. The people that embrace variety and utility will always be the ones catching the most fish...and having more fun in the process IMO.
My favorite thing to dredge the depths with is a maroon wooly micro leech with a gold bead head. Slow trolled dragons have produced well for me in lakes too, I do a dubbed darner that the fish seem to like :) I like a type 6, my rationale being that I like to really get into water that i would normally pass over when casting a slower sinking line (there are plenty of exceptions though !). Whatever feels like it will work, I'll try. Flashers were mentioned....lots of guys fish bucktails behind flashers in the salt, and in larger lakes for big rainbows :) Is it fly fishing? Who cares. :)
The VAST majority of people I run into when fishing are not above trolling a fly around....in fact I've never had a discussion of any sort with somebody that does not think that trolling has a place in flyfishing.
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Thats a great article Floon, I see trolling the best way to discover my way around new water. As a begineer fly fisherman I dont have the years of knowledge to easily navigate water but I am learning. It saved me up at Black Lake as I had made my way half way around the lake trolling, Casting ect, I had to make a decision do I head back across and call it a day, or do I spend another hour and finish the lake shoal perimeter trolling. Ironically 3 minutes after I said to myself just keep at it, my buddy had headed back across the lake, here came my first fish of the trip and what you said about slowing down couldn't be more true. This one was a good fighter too. Sweet
I have a picture but cant seem to post it it wont let me.
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Thanks for the great information Floon. Being new to the Fly fishing game I had no idea how to troll a fly (or even that you could troll a fly) ;)
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Its amazing what kinds of flies fish hit when trolled...
I was killing them on Kawkawa fast trolling blood worms, and more recently, a nice rainbow hammered my chronie while we moved from one place to the next...
Trolling is a great way to get to know water in a new lake, I normally go around once on a new lake so I can see all the structure first, then develop the strategy on where to anchor...
Cheers,
Nicole
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This is a great thread to resurrect !!!
Someone made a comment to me recently about how trolling isn't really fly fishing. Most guys I see out there are dragging around something or other at some point.
Caught my first Rainbow on the fly at Peterhope while trolling , it was a blast !
Wheres Floon now ??? Too bad he doesn't post here anymore, he knows his stuff.
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This is a great thread to resurrect !!!
Wheres Floon now ??? Too bad he doesn't post here anymore, he knows his stuff.
LOL, didn't realize it was such an old thread still I really enjoyed reading it.
I have seen a couple of posts from Floon at the Fly bc site.
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The original post pretty much nailed it on the head, at least, as far as I am concerned. I utilize a very well known casting technique, "chuck and duck", so trolling is a method that I use a lot. Just like posted, it is really slow rowing, a lot of drifting, and casting thrown in. A great way to check out the lake.
I like the rowing around because I just like the change of scenery and I feel like I am doing something. My technique is not good enough that I get a large number of hook-ups. I just like being there.
Gordon
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Great thread!
I was recently up at Sheriden lake. The fishing had been 'off' according to the locals as the weather has been strange this year. The weekend I was up, it changed from a high of 20 degrees on one day to a scorching 35 degrees on the water the next.
I ended doing better anchored and fishing shoals that I watched fish come in and out as compared to trolling.
However, I did hook into a 5lb trout (weighed it...lol) by trolling an old fly I had from Sheridan over ten years ago in less than 4 feet of water. That lake is so large the shoals are more like flats!
The locals up there have been trolling big flies for years and recommend around 100ft of line behind you! I've hooked fish so far behind me that I didn't even realize it was on my line cause the fish was so far away...lol.
At the time I hooked this fish, I was fishing with two rods, both went down, so I though I had snagged on the bottom as the water was so shallow. I cleaned up one reel and brought in the line. By the time I got to the second one, I realized I had a fish on as the line had travelled in front of my boat and about 40 yards away from the original spot. I only realized it was a fish on my line when I heard it jump...lol.
One thing that I like about trolling a fly over gear is you can get into really shallow water and explore areas that you would have alot of difficulty with gear. Likewise, once I find or 'see' fish I'll definately anchor down and work the area.
I wouuld always prefer anchoring down but I have to say trolling is great for exploring new water and at the very least enjoying the scenery...lol.
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Nothing wrong with searching waters, I've always found spratleys to be my go to trolling fly.
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I used to always check out new waters by trolling a leach or a special carrie type of fly we tied up but since I've switched back to fishing out of a boat as opposed to a float tube and when fish finders became available I tend to buzz all over the lake as quickily as I can checking out structure, depth, and but mostly to find where the fish are. Then I just anchor up.
But don't get me wrong when all I did was fish from a tube back in the eighties and nineties my buds and I often had our best fishing moving about the lake. We'd fish two lines and alternate retrieving them in. Sometimes you'd hook up on the line you were retrieving while other times it was on the rod you weren't holding. Either way it was exciting!
Some of the best August fishing I've ever had during the summer doldrums was fishing lakes like Vinson or Jimmy (two of my favourite lakes back then) by trolling, doing the alternate retrieve thing, with 20 or 30' sink tip lines using a gomphus, a great late summer fly BTW. This trolling technique could only be done with a float tube because there was no way you could go slow enough in a rowed boat....and trust me, dead slow was the only way you could pick up fish using the gomphus. If you wanted to you could use a floating line with a chronie or a pheasant tail tied to it as your other rod because the speed was that slow. This technique saved our late summer fishing!
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Alas, "fly trolling" is hardly flyfishing but we all do it because it's pretty darn effective especially during these warm months.
Chironomid fishing under a float is hardly flyfishing eiher it's really just float fishing without a worm.
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Well having read all three pages on this subject I am somewhat confused. First I'm a die-hard fly-fisher, meaning I cast as well as troll a fly, I am of the opinion that a fly fisher is one who uses a fly rod and a fly. the casting is the art and trolling is the reward as far as I'm concerned. Sitting in a boat trolling willow leaves and big hard lures is only pissing the fish off enough to attack it, rather than a delicate presentation of a fly that looks like something they would eat instead. I use trolling a fly to locate the fish and then cast out to them from my float tube using a different set up. always works wonders. I know this debate will go on forever but keep the lines tight and flies wet!
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I was at Sheridan the last couple of falls and am going this fall last year was the first time me and my buddy (on a hot tip) used floating line with a leach pattern trolling of course,in any where from 5-20 feet of water and we did fairly well.The biggest fish was in about 5 feet of water and about 8lbs .As far as the movement was we more less let my boat drift just using the oars to keep us straight. Can't wait to get back up there (the week before Thanksgiving). I am just like a kid waiting to go to Disneyland.
PS I agree that Flyfishing is being anchored and casting to the fish.......
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When I go fly fishing I troll 98%of the time.And when I'm on a lake the majority of fly fishers in tubes, pontoons or boats are also trolling. ps great post floon
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I would like to add in response to an above poster (IMHO) that if one is using a fly rod, fly line, and a fly, whether trolling or anchored down or with an indicator or without that I feel this should be considered 'fly fishing'. Whether it's trolling, or with an indicator, or casting... these are methods of utilzing fly fishing specific equipment - as opposed to gear and other forms of bait and casting rods and reels.
Unless I'm mistaken, Brian Chan's dvd's have some pretty articulate explainations as to how and why one would choose to use an indicator for instance. And I believe we would all agree that he's certainly an expert fly fisherman and one of the best.