Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trout Slayer on January 08, 2012, 07:35:36 PM
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Witnessed somthing unusuall on the Vedder today, a guy waded out spey fishing notices somthing white sitting in the bottom of the river goes out to it and pulls out a dead 12lbs hatchery doe sitting in the bottom of the river. He pulls it out and says he is going to keep it, marks it on his license and calls it a day while his buddy keeps casting away. What are your thoughts on this???
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I think thats kind of gross lol Who knows why that fish is dead or how long its been there I mean I am sure it must of looked fresh otherwise he might not of taken it but either way I would never do that. The whole point of fishing is in the pull or grab of the fish not in just leaving with meat.
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gross
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I personally wouldn't keep a dead fish I found, however what he did was legal. Perhaps he wanted it for the roe....
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Not the best thing to read when eating.
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Now he can say he got one on the spey rod I guess.
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Maybe it was released,and for whatever reason didn't survive.I once noticed a chrome fish lying on the bottom of the river by my feet while out fishing the Englishman river on Vancouver Island.It never entered my mind to retrieve it and call it a day. First time Ive ever heard of this.Once saw a gutted wild doe on the bank of the Vedd which was stripped of her roe. I was shocked to say the least.
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I wouldnt touch it. Legal? How is it legal? Doesnt it say in the regs somewhere that you must catch your fish?
I saw this happen before during pink season this year. I saw the natives bring in a haul. They dumped some dead males out into the river. A fisherman downstream took one out that looked fresh and kept it.
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Technically he did catch it... He caught it with his hands.
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Sounds like a typical spey guy, if they are not flossing or snagging you can usually find them messing around with carion. Those guys make me sick, and to top it off they are always with the "hollier than thou" attitude.
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LOL
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In the regs it says
"your licence entitles you to fish with or without a rod with a single line and a single barbless hook"
it says you can
*Do the above
*spear fish for non game fish
*set line for burbot
*Fish with downrigers
*Ice fish
*Trap Cray fish
all other methods of fishing are illegal
Its on Page 13 of the Regs.
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Sounds like a typical spey guy, if they are not flossing or snagging you can usually find them messing around with carion. Those guys make me sick, and to top it off they are always with the "hollier than thou" attitude.
lol and to add to that, the spey guys are usually the ones who do this because they have waded out to their nipples
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Sounds like a typical spey guy, if they are not flossing or snagging you can usually find them messing around with carion. Those guys make me sick, and to top it off they are always with the "hollier than thou" attitude.
I think I sense some sarcasm lol
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hmmm..nothing surprises me on the Vedder anymore. During chum season if people haul in and keep a zombie salmon and say it is good for the smoker, then seeing a person take a dead fish from the bottom of the river shouldn't shock us that much.
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I wouldnt touch it. Legal? How is it legal? Doesnt it say in the regs somewhere that you must catch your fish?
I saw this happen before during pink season this year. I saw the natives bring in a haul. They dumped some dead males out into the river. A fisherman downstream took one out that looked fresh and kept it.
I'm suggesting it's legal because he was using legal gear, he didn't snag the fish, and then he wrote it down on his license and left the river.
If he was stopped by the CO what would the CO give him a ticket for? Picking up a hatchery fish, writing it on his license and taking it home? ??? :)
Assuming he is going to eat the fish is a big assumption. There is no law that I am aware of that says you must eat the fish when you get it home.
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^ Exactly! Find a more noble cause to pile on than a guy marking a dead fish on his license and calling it a day.
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that is nuts what one will do ??? ???
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First I've heard of this. We can only speculate on his motives for keeping that fish. Perhaps he had hooked and release that fish and seeing that it had died decided to keep it. Who knows for sure.
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Oh I know for sure, it was not a fish he caught. And he did gut it infront of me with intentions of taking it home....
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to me it would be like keeping roadkill, and i think that is illegal
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to me it would be like keeping roadkill, and i think that is illegal
LOL ;D Only thing is the steelhead wasn't found on the road....
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If you're able to catch a fish with your bare hands and you have a license and the fish is allowed to be retained I think it would be fine to keep it as long as angling regs are followed. Heck I know I'm going to be bored tomorrow so I may just make a phone call and see if it is in fact legal lol.
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to me it would be like keeping roadkill, and i think that is illegal
Totally legal actually.
If he somehow knew that the fish hadn't been dead long, then why not.
If he watched it float down or something it wouldn't be that bad, I would never do it, but to each their own.
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so if someone was to intentionally run over an animal he could then take it home? just askin i am not a hunter
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The way the road kill thing works I believe that you're supposed to report it to a CO and ask for permission to keep the animal.
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thanks for that, i think i'll just keep to catchin my own fish, just can't see taking a dead fish you don't know anything about, poor ethics i think
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Technically, that is illegal. As another member posted,
[Page 9 regs]
ALLOWABLE FISHING METHODS
angle … fish (with or without a rod) with
one fishing line to which only one hook,
one artificial lure OR one artificial fly is
attached
All other methods of taking fish are illegal.
The way I see it, angling "without" a rod is legal, but one must use "one fishing line" with either one hook, artificial lure, or fly to catch fish.
Although 1 hatchery markes steelhead is allowed for retention, legally, the individual would have had to get the dead fish to..."bite" and hook it in the mouth solely by hooking the fish in the mouth using a hook and line. Whether or not a rod was used he would still have to use a line with a hook on the end.
If he really wants to waste his quota on a fish he did not catch...hey go ahead! But to be technical, even though he marked it on his licence with integrity, he still did not catch it legally, and probably was unaware of this.
Maybe he just wanted something to weigh in at fred's for the derby :D another reason why derbies are bad - they encourage people to remove nutrients from the river! lol
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Sounds like a typical spey guy, if they are not flossing or snagging you can usually find them messing around with carion. Those guys make me sick, and to top it off they are always with the "hollier than thou" attitude.
LOL! Some definitely have the "holier than thou" attitude but most are cool
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If he was stopped by the CO what would the CO give him a ticket for? Picking up a hatchery fish, writing it on his license and taking it home? ??? :)
hahah if the COs came across them, they would probably laugh and/or pity him and let him go even though it's technically illegal
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Pat AV was being sarcastic by the way for those that didnt get it ::) he fishes a spey rod himself LOL as do I. I also fish gear and BB when sockeye are open.
just because a guy is fishing a "spey" rod doesnt mean he cant be an unethical fisherman that doesnt follow rules oe doesnt even know them. Those types are in all aspects of everything we do so why act so shocked. I havent personally seen this happen before however i have seen everything else. this is strange yes but whats worse, taking a dead fish you hope is fresh or leaving fish tied to a heavy fishing line while you attempt to upgrade and then decide whether you will take them home or have them tied there alive to keep them fresh ??
still a pretty damn strange thing to do unless he saw it released or saw it floating down and knew it was recently deceased somehow ??? ???
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Oh I know for sure, it was not a fish he caught. And he did gut it infront of me with intentions of taking it home....
You probably asked for the roe. LOL
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You probably asked for the roe. LOL
lmao!!!
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Maybe the same fish I broke off as it went balistic on the dike rocks. Maybe he was a little desperate for that first fish, being a spey guy the fish of 1000 casts is now 10,000 casts. ;) I find steelheading iis not so much a meat fishery but more the hunt for the sense of accomplishment. But Iv seen everything on the Vedder that nothing surprises me anymore, I love how it was a spey guy.
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Did he stick his spey fly in its mouth and have a photo shoot? Hammered that intruder...
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I think he probably watched the guys above him catch it, take forever with a photo shoot, then try and release it, when they decided that there was too many guys around for the "kill and keep fishing" trick they let it float away.
The angler probably decided that he would keep the still dying freshie as opposed to watching it go to waste, good on him.
Remember, Steelhead are not air breathers ;)
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I think the fish was swapped for a decent nonfish meal at a restaurant. Done that before. ;)
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Maybe you should have just asked him instead of speculating on here?
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LOL.... I guess we will never know why he kept that fish, but the story is hilarious none the less.
I guess odds of catching a steelhead on fly is very low in January and he took the best shot he had. ;D
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I suspect this is legal. Doubt it would be ticketed if a CO watched. If it was I'd bet a judge would throw it out of court. Tidal regs are different but I have heard there have been cases where FOC Officers ticketed smelt fishers for keeping salmon caught in smelt nets in English Bay. These were thrown out of court as the Fisheries Act does not prohibit keeping 'wind fall' catches.
It is also very easy to guess how long the fish has been dead. the lack of rigor is a sure sign it's been dead only a short period of time.
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I can't but laugh at the display of negativity shown by some posters towards spey guys.
A fishermen's version of penis envy. Freud would be delighted! ;D
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I can't but laugh at the display of negativity shown by some posters towards spey guys.
A fishermen's version of penis envy. Freud would be delighted! ;D
LOL!!
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I guess that's why it's called a starvin stick
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It is also very easy to guess how long the fish has been dead. the lack of rigor is a sure sign it's been dead only a short period of time.
A dead fish will go into rigor in the first 20 to 45 minutes. Then within 12 to 24 hours it will go out of rigor. If the fishes gills were red and the water was cool then I do not see a food safe issue.
Legal...probably not technically but I do not think anybody would get busted for such actions.
No biggie. One extra fish for the rest of us.
On the other hand if that fish was very limp and had pail gills... it just ain't right.
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The fish wouldn't have gone to waste if left in the water. Eagles, gulls, trout, fry, insects and the rest of the food chain would all benefit.
Othewise, meh.
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I am not sure why the guy did what he did neither, its something i wouldn't do maybe he is skirting the law maybe not until someone asks we wont know. Now has anyone thought that this guy just prevented something from being wasted? No one has given anything like that any thought at all. What about guys out coho fishing on the river and going to tail a fish and the hook pops out and the fish is thrashing in the shallow water, there is no one that can convince me they would not grab it or at least making an attempt including myself. So technically that fish was caught but got away and because you didn't grab it while a hook was in its mouth it is technically illegal is it not ?? I couldn't tell you but that's the message i am getting from the numerous comments posted on this topic. Lets take it for what it is kinda funny really that someone might take it home and eat something he doesn't know how long its been dead. We should be chuckling at this and chalking it up for another classic "Chedder River" Foley.
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Now has anyone thought that this guy just prevented something from being wasted? No one has given anything like that any thought at all.
Actually for a fish to lay dead in the river is not a waste as Typhoon said a couple posts before yours. The nutrients go back into the flow and coastal flows need all the nutrients they can get.
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--So you guys are saying he should fish and kill another?
--I don't get it... he did not say I'm taking it and not marking it on my license.. what's the problem.
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The spey bashing is funny lol. Is there a bit of gear or bait fishing elitism on the boards? lol I thought it was usually the other way around. I think stupidity doesnt know the difference between fly and gear. Also I will admit I catch less steelehead on the fly then guys will catch on bait but in a lot of rivers there are catch and release and bait bans; also It doesnt matter how you fish as long as its legal, ethical, and your having fun.
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Sounds like a typical spey guy, if they are not flossing or snagging you can usually find them messing around with carion. Those guys make me sick, and to top it off they are always with the "hollier than thou" attitude.
Just spit my food up bro! Lol
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I am not sure why the guy did what he did neither, its something i wouldn't do maybe he is skirting the law maybe not until someone asks we wont know. Now has anyone thought that this guy just prevented something from being wasted? No one has given anything like that any thought at all. What about guys out coho fishing on the river and going to tail a fish and the hook pops out and the fish is thrashing in the shallow water, there is no one that can convince me they would not grab it or at least making an attempt including myself. So technically that fish was caught but got away and because you didn't grab it while a hook was in its mouth it is technically illegal is it not ?? I couldn't tell you but that's the message i am getting from the numerous comments posted on this topic. Lets take it for what it is kinda funny really that someone might take it home and eat something he doesn't know how long its been dead. We should be chuckling at this and chalking it up for another classic "Chedder River" Foley.
Interesting point, but the coho in the scenario you described is theoretically caught by hook and line. Arguably the steelhead in question was too, but because the spey guy did not actually see the fish being caught [lets assume] also keeping in mind that fish 'gifting' is not allowed, picking up the fish and keeping it towards his quota is not legal. Whether or not anyone would care if he kept it is a seperate issue. The way I see it, if the law was to allow people who grab fish out of the water with no hooks in their mouths it would have sever implications. I am getting a little analytcal here but arguably one could say any fish was caught "but the hook popped out" and start picking fish up with their hands and keeping them [assuming fish were slow and stupid and not impossible to catch with bare hands]
The dead steelhead retained is not legal just like how guys who fish sturgeon in the fraser are not allowed to scoop out the floaters [to use for bait]
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so should the CO's go after a guy that picks up some dead fish or a guy breaking some other law or a guy that kills a wild fish ?
I dont see anything wrong with it.
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I woulda looked at it, wondered how it got there, then carried on my merry way, like most...but hey I guess some people are just so desperate...wouldn't doubt if he weighed it in at fred's, hero shots, etc... haha, atleast he marked it... ::)
It's pretty interesting hearing other fisherman's perspectives on this sort of thing as well.
I don't necessarily think it's "wrong" to do that, but wouldn't do it myself.
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It was probably fresh and had just died due to lack of oxygen from the Spey guys frothing the water up.
So yes,he did catch it.
Thats how they do it. ;D
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just for the sake of info, it is illegal to retain fish that had not been caught by means other than what is described in the regulations. it is no different from the act of "gifting" or using a child with a toy fishing rod as an "active" fisherman to double your limit...the argument would be that the child can't be entitled to retain fish just because he/she has in their possession the tackle to show they were fishing...the parent would have to prove the child was capable of hooking and landing the fish or at the least be able to play and land the fish themself...so the key phrase would be "the act of catching and landing".
of course, in the case of the spey guy it's obvious he was more than capable of catching the steelhead, but if it was proven that he didn't catch and land the fish himself, he would be liable for breaking the law.
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Sheesh, my head is starting to get sore after reading some of the latest replies to this thread. Almost sounds like you need a law degree before you can go out fishing.
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just for the sake of info, it is illegal to retain fish that had not been caught by means other than what is described in the regulations. it is no different from the act of "gifting" or using a child with a toy fishing rod as an "active" fisherman to double your limit...the argument would be that the child can't be entitled to retain fish just because he/she has in their possession the tackle to show they were fishing...the parent would have to prove the child was capable of hooking and landing the fish or at the least be able to play and land the fish themself...so the key phrase would be "the act of catching and landing".
of course, in the case of the spey guy it's obvious he was more than capable of catching the steelhead, but if it was proven that he didn't catch and land the fish himself, he would be liable for breaking the law.
Nice, that's similar to what I was thinking
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What started off as a unusual observation is now getting disected to death by wannabe C.O officers. Much prefer the humourous posts on this thread. ::)
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What started off as a unusual observation is now getting disected to death by wannabe C.O officers. Much prefer the humourous posts on this thread. ::)
LOL you wish! I'm just playing devil's advocate and am studying law. Way too many wannabe fish cops on the river anyways!
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He should have grabbed his leader as close to the hook as possible, then hooked the fish in the mouth, and landed it.
:D
What a joke, go fishing and get over it.
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He should have grabbed his leader as close to the hook as possible, then hooked the fish in the mouth, and landed it.
No...he should have left it alone and carried on fishing. Who picks up dead fish out of the river to take home any way? How desperate do you have to be to do that? While I usually release the fish I catch, especially steelhead, I have never begrudge anyone for bonking a hatchery fish... but this is beyond comprehension, even if it was legal (which it clearly was not).This is a meat head with a spey rod (practically an oxymoron).
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I am not sure about oxymoron but you can find morons in any groups. Neither spey nor gear guys can be excluded nor anyone of them are any better than the other. I think enough is said already.
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What started off as a unusual observation is now getting disected to death by wannabe C.O officers. Much prefer the humourous posts on this thread. ::)
Read Trout Slayer's last sentence because you seem kinda lost.
Witnessed somthing unusuall on the Vedder today, a guy waded out spey fishing notices somthing white sitting in the bottom of the river goes out to it and pulls out a dead 12lbs hatchery doe sitting in the bottom of the river. He pulls it out and says he is going to keep it, marks it on his license and calls it a day while his buddy keeps casting away. What are your thoughts on this???
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This discussion board is exactly what it is....a discussion. Don't complain about people's lack of etiquette or lack of knowledge and poor antics on the river when you turn around and bitch about guys posting information relevant to the issue....You know who you are.
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This discussion board is exactly what it is....a discussion. Don't complain about people's lack of etiquette or lack of knowledge and poor antics on the river when you turn around and bitch about guys posting information relevant to the issue....You know who you are.
haha you definitely hit the nail on the head with this one
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A lot of energy being spent debating the fate of a dead Vedder hatchery steelhead. How about type a letter to Christy outlining why it just might be a bad idea to allow Enbridge to put a pipe oil along geologically unstable, slide prone slopes of the Kitimat range through Skeena watershed, one of the largest un-dammed watersheds in North American (home of the largest population of wild steelhead in the world ), then put it on super tankers and have them navigate one of BC's most treacherous pieces of water. Or maybe send a letter explaining that diverting summer run steelhead streams like the Kokish to run an IPP doesn't constitute clean energy and sets a precedent that no stream is off limits for development despite having a population of salmon and steelhead that is well documented to inhabit the stretch of river being diverted.
http://www.steelheadsociety.org/news/enbridge-northern-gateway-pipeline-brief
http://www.steelheadsociety.org/news/kokish-letters-needed-now
I don't mean to harp on about environmental issues as I have been lately, just there are some big issues coming up that WILL impact steelhead. Obviously if you're reading page 5? of this thread, you have some interest in steelhead. Do something about it. Write a letter, make your voice heard. Forget about someone taking home a dead fish, that's weird but otherwise pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
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Bravo, Matt.
Thanks for saying it like it is.
Unfortunately, composing and sending a letter to the authorities is beyond the intellectual abilities of some - who are otherwise very loud when it comes to menial subjects.
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Almost sounds like you need a law degree before you can go out fishing.
Pretty much. The majority of serious fishermen also have a serious case of jailhouse lawyer syndrome.
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a simple question of legality came up and it needed to be addressed...we're not talking about principle or ethics here or the need of the 'bigger picture'...in the past many new fishermen posted how they loved coming to this site because of what they had learned about fishing and the rules and regulations.
*i decided to delete some of my original post which included my active participation/memberships in organizations ...i refuse to get drawn into a battle of integrity.
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A dead fish will go into rigor in the first 20 to 45 minutes. Then within 12 to 24 hours it will go out of rigor. If the fishes gills were red and the water was cool then I do not see a food safe issue.
Most of what I can find from vetrinary studies on line states clearly the onset of rigor, the length of time for it to complete etc depends on a variety of factors including temperature (rigor is slower at low temperatures) and the extent of stress the fish has experienced prior to death. Dying following an encounter with an angler isn't particularly high on the scale of stressful activities measured in such studies. Rigor is usually a matter of hours and not minutes from what I could find. You make very good points about the conditions of the gills etc as well in my expereinces dead fish that have been in the water for a few hours or more will go very pale in colour. The point is it's not hard to tell how long a fish has been dead in relative terms.
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50+ posts, most simply condemning some guy (who admittedly made a curious decision) over and over, is a lot of words that I feel are ultimately wasted on what is a triviality. Going sloppy seconds on dead hatchery steelhead hasn't traditionally been the the most significant shady practice committed on the Vedder, nor is about to emerge as common practice from the sounds of it. Make a practice of not eating dead stuff you find on the ground, leave the topic alone and do something productive instead.
Bravo, Matt.
Thanks for saying it like it is.
Unfortunately, composing and sending a letter to the authorities is beyond the intellectual abilities of some - who are otherwise very loud when it comes to menial subjects.
I should add that I'm happy to pass along my working drafts of letters I've written both on the Northern Gateway pipeline and the Kokish if anyone is feeling lazy and just wants to edit it to make them their own. They are already addressed, all that needs to be done is edit, sign, mail. Anyone who is interested, post an email address and I will send you my working draft.
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I am not sure about oxymoron but you can find morons in any groups. Neither spey nor gear guys can be excluded nor anyone of them are any better than the other. I think enough is said already.
Absolutely, but a meat head (a fisherman whose primary objective is meat for the freezer) would not normally choose a spey rod as his tool of choice.
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A lot of energy being spent debating the fate of a dead Vedder hatchery steelhead. How about type a letter to Christy outlining why it just might be a bad idea to allow Enbridge to put a pipe oil along geologically unstable, slide prone slopes of the Kitimat range through Skeena watershed, one of the largest un-dammed watersheds in North American (home of the largest population of wild steelhead in the world ), then put it on super tankers and have them navigate one of BC's most treacherous pieces of water.
Did that already.
Or maybe send a letter explaining that diverting summer run steelhead streams like the Kokish to run an IPP doesn't constitute clean energy and sets a precedent that no stream is off limits for development despite having a population of salmon and steelhead that is well documented to inhabit the stretch of river being diverted.
Did that too.
I don't mean to harp on about environmental issues as I have been lately, just there are some big issues coming up that WILL impact steelhead. Obviously if you're reading page 5? of this thread, you have some interest in steelhead. Do something about it. Write a letter, make your voice heard. Forget about someone taking home a dead fish, that's weird but otherwise pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
I love that you want to turn people's obvious energies to other more useful pursuits, and an idea of a form letter would be good if you are really interested in increasing numbers of respondents.
50+ posts, most simply condemning some guy (who admittedly made a curious decision) over and over, is a lot of words that I feel are ultimately wasted on what is a triviality. Going sloppy seconds on dead hatchery steelhead hasn't traditionally been the the most significant shady practice committed on the Vedder, nor is about to emerge as common practice from the sounds of it. Make a practice of not eating dead stuff you find on the ground, leave the topic alone and do something productive instead.
Really, no one is saying this ranks high on the "shady practices" meter. Most are simply responding to the question "what are your thoughts on this?" and responding from gut reactions (eww) to legal reactions (you know that really was not even legal?). If the topic does not interest you, you can always find another. There are a couple of active ones on the board right now. No need to judge people's choice of topic. Some of us just need an excuse not to do homework.
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Absolutely, but a meat head (a fisherman whose primary objective is meat for the freezer) would not normally choose a spey rod as his tool of choice.
you got that right Sir. :)
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the guy probably made a bet with his buddy that he will catch a stealhead on his first outing to the vedder with a flyrod,saw the opurtunity to win and took it lol ;D ;D ;D
I stumbled accros a few dead stealhead last year,one of which was dying at the moment that we saw it,the seagul had already had taken a shot at its heart but the fish was still giving the few last kicks,my buddy and I observed the fish tried to figure out what happened and than tossed the fish into the river to let nature take its course couse it just dint feel right keeping it...
I highly dout that a meat fisherman would choose a spey rod to catch his share off meat,and i bet any money the same guy is reading this thread now and has his valid way of why he did what he did,but scared to post anything about it,couse he would get viloated by everyone even more than what he is getting already lol ;D ;D ;D
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i bet any money the same guy is reading this thread now and has his valid way of why he did what he did,but scared to post anything about it,couse he would get viloated by everyone even more than what he is getting already lol ;D ;D ;D
The only "valid" reason for doing what he did was that he wanted fertilizer for his tomato plants and it was cheaper than buying it (still not legal though).
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i'm not judging the guy for what he did, nor am i condemning him...the last thing i want to come across as is being holier than thou...my own response was specifically towards the question of legality (that was put on the table).
maybe the guy was short on cash and needed to put food on the table or maybe he felt the steelhead was going to waste...who knows? but a question is still a question, so if someone decides to participate and answer, why can't they without being labelled as a wannabe CO or lawyer? seriously? ???
i like to pick and choose my battles...if you really want to get into the bigger scheme of things and have a real hands on experience, join some of the organizations i participated/supported/actively registered to like SRWS, David Suzuki Foundation, and Amnesty International... then lets talk about triviality.
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A lot of energy being spent debating the fate of a dead Vedder hatchery steelhead. How about type a letter to Christy outlining why it just might be a bad idea to allow Enbridge to put a pipe oil along geologically unstable, slide prone slopes of the Kitimat range through Skeena watershed, one of the largest un-dammed watersheds in North American (home of the largest population of wild steelhead in the world ), then put it on super tankers and have them navigate one of BC's most treacherous pieces of water. Or maybe send a letter explaining that diverting summer run steelhead streams like the Kokish to run an IPP doesn't constitute clean energy and sets a precedent that no stream is off limits for development despite having a population of salmon and steelhead that is well documented to inhabit the stretch of river being diverted.
http://www.steelheadsociety.org/news/enbridge-northern-gateway-pipeline-brief
http://www.steelheadsociety.org/news/kokish-letters-needed-now
I don't mean to harp on about environmental issues as I have been lately, just there are some big issues coming up that WILL impact steelhead. Obviously if you're reading page 5? of this thread, you have some interest in steelhead. Do something about it. Write a letter, make your voice heard. Forget about someone taking home a dead fish, that's weird but otherwise pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Well said Sir.