Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: DRP79 on October 31, 2011, 03:36:18 PM
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Well I am new here and have just taken up fishing this year. Ive only gone to the Vedder so far and as I was learning, I did snag some pinks which at the time was fun but I know now that its not right or proper. I want to do things right, I am talking to other folks on the river, I am observing and though it is starting to get a bit frustrating, not getting a bite in the last 5 weeks, I am still enjoying my time out on the river.
I have a 10.5 foot rod with a LW reel and have been float fishing using roe, wool, colorados, jigs etc and having no success at all. I know its not called catching and being skunked is par for the course but the past few weeks, I am seeing fish jump, I am seeing others land them but I am getting nothing and I am wondering if someone could maybe critique or help in any way.
I have my reel spooled with 40lb braided line and use a Maxima Chameleon 20lb leader line. I use about 18-24" of leader attached to a snap swivel with some pencil lead on the other end and use cheap floats. I usually go 3-5 feet from float to weight and adjust accordingly if I feel it skipping along the bottom. I let the float drift as naturally as I can and try to keep the line off the water as it does so.
Is there something wrong with my setup or technique or is this really just par for the course?
Any help is appreciated.
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Your technique is correct.
You should get rid of the 40# braid and put on 15-20# mono. Also your leader is way too heavy. Use 8-12# mono or flouro
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Thanks man, Ill get that stuff for sure. I just have what the guy recommended at Army Navy cause I told him I wanted to be able to land a spring if I got one to bite, I had a feeling it might be a bit heavy.
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If you target coho, I heard you have to get there first light. It's from reading the previous posts, haven't done it myself :D.
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I use your leader as my mainline. Change accordingly to what mr.p said but learning to read water is also very important.
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Just like Mr.P said down size you main line to 12 for coho, or if you are also targeting spring 15 will give you a bit more muscle. I used 8lb mono for coho, but If im fishing in around log jams, fast current or dirty water I will switch to 10lb.
I find that coho are the worst for turning on and off the bite. I will usually dedicate my time early mornings and last light for them. If you can see a bunch of them surfacing in an area that is usually a good indication of a good area to fish, obviously. Roe and Blades have always worked the best for me.
It always feels so much better coming home with a fish that you tricked into biting, over a fish that was snagged or stabbed in the side of the face with a hook.
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For coho, as almost everyone above here said, you need to lighten up the gear. Smaller hooks, smaller pieces of roe, lighter line, and also try not to fish busy areas. Also loose the snap swivel (it might save you some time) but it is very noticeable. Very small presentation is need for coho. There are a lot of factors that go into play and the most important thing iv'e learned is to have confidence in your techniques ;)
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DRP79, heres an interesting thread that might help you: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=28519.0
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It always feels so much better coming home with a fish that you tricked into biting, over a fish that was snagged or stabbed in the side of the face with a hook.
Nice
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I have a 10.5 foot rod with a LW reel
What kind of reel? If you're using a spinning reel that could be a big part of the problem.
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AT this point of teh season as a newbie with little experience I would just target catch and release of some chum to get the hang of it. As described by others avove, but fish in the chum water (faster, deeper) to get a feel for watching the float do down etc.
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What kind of reel? If you're using a spinning reel that could be a big part of the problem.
It's just an entry level daiwa baitcasting reel.
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AT this point of teh season as a newbie with little experience I would just target catch and release of some chum to get the hang of it. As described by others avove, but fish in the chum water (faster, deeper) to get a feel for watching the float do down etc.
That's what I am trying to do. I don't plan on taking anything home just trying to put the time in and gain experience but nothing is happening. I ran through my tackle in that deep, fast pool mid river at the train bridge today cause the slower pool on the other side was crowded. I was hoping to get to play with a chum for a bit but no luck.
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Wow... don't use braid, spining reels, etc.... ::)
I use #35 braid as my main line, and #15(less with bait) as a leader with a spinning reel and the fish don't mind at all. Save the money and only change your leader size and loose the snap swivel too.
I'd suggest sticking to blades and learn to fish them well. You can also fish them without a float and hit bottom every now and then with good success too if the water is deep enough or flowing good. If you loose one it's no big cost, but you shouldn't loose much ( I rarely do). Also make sure with blades that your hook is properly sized for the blade so that the point hangs past the blade.
Now the most important part.... understand what is going on in the water and how the action works and where it sits in the water column. ;)
Also, try going farther up river where there is less pressure and more spots. I never did well in the lower while others have during my earlier years as it is busy and spots fill fast leaving you slim pickens unless you know what you are doing.... and it is still busy.
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One of you experts should offer to take this guy out.Thats the best way to learn is to go with somebody experienced.
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One thing not mentioned here is luck. During the pink run I got into many fish and landed a lot less, but there were days and weeks where I would get nothing. And that was fishing every couple days. My girlfriend coming with me about half the time, doing the same things I do, got one bite for the season. That was it. Im not saying there isnt things you should adjust, and try differently and all that, but luck does play a role. I wish you luck, and as a beginner the only advice I can offer that I know works is keep switching it up. Whether its retrieve speed on spoons and spinners, depth, bait, casting distance, size of everything. Frustration happens, but a day fishing with no fish is still a hell of a lot of fun!
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If I were you I will keep the braid line for the time being and just add a 9 feet extension of your mainline by adding your existing 20lb Chameleon using an albright or modified albright knot. Your float and lead will ride on the Chameleon and end with a swivel. For leader, purchase Maxima Ultragreen 25m leader spools in 8lbs for coho and 12lbs for spring salmon and you should be set with minimum outlays until you get the feel for what suits you.
Normally for biginners, roe is the easiest way to catch salmon as they are attracted to this for many reasons and tend to hold on to it longer than others facilitating good hook sets. For hook size, for coho try #4 for artificials (wool or jensen eggs) and #2 or 4 for roe depending on size of roe skeins used. For springs, start with #2 for artificials and #1 for roe and resize depending on situation.
Spend time on the river observing where and how other fisherman are landing salmon and try to learn from what they are doing. Patience and persistance are one quaility often found in good fisherman. :)
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I'd personally just leave the braid, I find it easier to pick any bird nests out and better for mending when drift fishing. I would just suggest, as others have, that you downsize your terminal tackle. Go to 8lb flouro, #3 hook, small roe or wool or whatever presentation and keep everything short. Coho will rise to strike, no point in risking getting snagged up. As for luck, first light can be a big help, incoming tides also play a factor. What I have found is the most important factor is finding areas that aren't being pounded by a bunch of other fisherman. If you're the first to cast in, presentation and choice of lure becomes less of a factor.
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Another thing is if you want to get some action and get the hang of things, try the Stave. I would not recommend fishing the crowds, but walk away from them as much as you can so you can have a better experience. Fish purple/pink or chartruse/black jigs a foot or two under your float. These fish are very aggressive and will be a nice change from getting skunked. As for reading water, after spending time out on the river and pulling out some fish, you will start to develop a pattern. You will notice that some types of water will produce better than others and you will be able to choose your spots accordingly. Send me a message if there is anything else you would like to know.
Cheers
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Wow... don't use braid, spining reels, etc.... ::)
I use #35 braid as my main line, and #15(less with bait) as a leader with a spinning reel and the fish don't mind at all. Save the money and only change your leader size and loose the snap swivel too.
He's obviously attempting to learn how to float fish. Just because you may be able to maintain a proper drift with a spinning reel doesn't mean that the average fisherman can, let alone a beginner.
For the life of me I can't understand why people on hear keep telling people that they 'can' catch fish using ineffective gear/techniques. Yes I could go out and catch a steelhead on a mickey mouse spincast rod using a piece of flagging tape for bait. Doesn't mean I'll be fishing very effectively but sure, if I kept at it I could probably get one.
I'll second BCfisherman97's comments. Go to the Stave. Float. Weight. Bent Rod's Pink Jig. Prawn. You'll clobber them.
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He's obviously attempting to learn how to float fish. Just because you may be able to maintain a proper drift with a spinning reel doesn't mean that the average fisherman can, let alone a beginner.
For the life of me I can't understand why people on hear keep telling people that they 'can' catch fish using ineffective gear/techniques. Yes I could go out and catch a steelhead on a mickey mouse spincast rod using a piece of flagging tape for bait. Doesn't mean I'll be fishing very effectively but sure, if I kept at it I could probably get one.
I'll second BCfisherman97's comments. Go to the Stave. Float. Weight. Bent Rod's Pink Jig. Prawn. You'll clobber them.
Totally agree.
35lb braid? what do you need that for? You can't float fish a run properly using a spinning reel. Tossing blue fox spinners and Croc spoons yes, but not float fishing roe. Take it from someone who has limited out on coho practically every trip this year:
For coho:
#4 gammie, 24 inches or less of 8lb flourocarbon leader, 1.5 inches pencil lead, 20 gram cleardrift or Drennan float, 12lb mono mainline
For coho, chum and spring:
#4 to #1 gammie, 24 inches or less of 10 to 12lb flourocarbon leader, 1.5 inches pencil lead, 20 gram cleardrift or Drennan float, 15lb mono mainline.
Of course the amount of lead or length of leader will vary with the water conditions so those are just guidelines.
Lures or bait in order of preference:
Roe (spring coho or pink) (procure or pautzke)
Blades (colorado or french) if weighted use a spin setup
Jigs (pink over purple) (Chartruese over blue)
Spoons (crocs, koho)
Yarn (peach, baby pink)
Don't be afraid to fish in crowds sometimes. You should have confidence that you will outfish all the others in your run using the setup I have described above.
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Actually... I've caught 7 steelhead in 10 trips my first and only year fishing for steelhead with a spinning outfit(not bad!) . And laughed every time someone with a pin or bait-caster couldn't believe I caught one on a spinning outfit....
Is it ideal for drifting bait... no, although it can easily be done just as well (use brain), and I can do just as good as the next guy (usually better) as I always have on the river... but hey, feel free to take me to your favorite spot and school me... :D
AND... some people (like me) just don't like bait casters.... maybe I'm scared it will turn me into an "elitist", LOL
And, FYI, drifting isn't the only way to catch fish..... but feel free to limit your self and the OP. :-\
The point is I'm able to out fish most people, and possible even the "above" people with relatively the same setup as the OP so it is more along the lines he's doing something wrong, not the choice in gear.
You guys may limit out, but why.... is it your spots? I bet so as that's how I do well... combined with skill.
I also agree to checking out the stave.
PS, sterling... if my gear is ''ineffective'' then how do I catch fish so often? I'd like to know...
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Thanks for all the info guys.
I have been using #2 gamikatsu (sp?) hooks for yarn and roe and #2 Colorados in silver and gold, smooth and hammered finish.
I have some #4 hooks as well so Ill give those a shot next time out.
I bought some roe too which I have since thrown out. I had a hell of a time getting it to stay on, it seemed too wet and loose. Some of the end pieces worked great but most other pieces were good for a cast, maybe 2.
Stratocaster, you say the amount of weight and leader lenght vary depending on water conditions, could you elaborate please?
I get that in faster water, you need more weight to get the presentation down but how does it affest leader lenght?
Thanks again guys.
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Stratocaster, you say the amount of weight and leader lenght vary depending on water conditions, could you elaborate please?
I get that in faster water, you need more weight to get the presentation down but how does it affest leader lenght?
Thanks again guys.
Clearer and slower water, I generally use a longer leader for a more steathy presentation but I don't go over 24 inches. Longer leaders in faster water will not get your bait down fast enough and can become flossing tools if you are fishing too deep. Cure your own roe if you can. I know you may need to catch a fish first but sometimes, walking around the Vedder up mid river you can find a skein or two from some generous angler. Spring roe is effective and is tough as nails. I recommend Pautzkes cure as that has worked for me very well this year. Roe has caught the majority of the fish for me this year. Even Chums will take my roe (especially the cleaner does). if you just want to catch a fish and don't want the hassle of dealing with roe, then a pink/purple jig fished under a float will do well for chums at the stave.
Good luck!
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Also, where to fish is just as important as how to fish.
As a beginner it is best to go look for willing biters or fresh run salmon to have a chance of catching a salmon in good condition using ethical methods.
Vedder is pretty much at tail end of season for fresh run fish so maybe Stave with later running salmon will be a better place to practice your fishing.
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Thanks for the info and I think Ill give the Stave a shot in the next couple days, Ive never been but still have 2 weeks of holidays before I go back to work.
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Actually... I've caught 7 steelhead in 10 trips my first and only year fishing for steelhead with a spinning outfit(not bad!) . And laughed every time someone with a pin or bait-caster couldn't believe I caught one on a spinning outfit....
Is it ideal for drifting bait... no, although it can easily be done just as well (use brain), and I can do just as good as the next guy (usually better) as I always have on the river... but hey, feel free to take me to your favorite spot and school me... :D
AND... some people (like me) just don't like bait casters.... maybe I'm scared it will turn me into an "elitist", LOL
And, FYI, drifting isn't the only way to catch fish..... but feel free to limit your self and the OP. :-\
The point is I'm able to out fish most people, and possible even the "above" people with relatively the same setup as the OP so it is more along the lines he's doing something wrong, not the choice in gear.
You guys may limit out, but why.... is it your spots? I bet so as that's how I do well... combined with skill.
I also agree to checking out the stave.
PS, sterling... if my gear is ''ineffective'' then how do I catch fish so often? I'd like to know...
I hate to break it to you but 7 for 10 is just really good luck for your first Steelhead season, no way round that. I will say though that the spinning reel as much as I hate them, is the gear of choice for many when it comes to float fishing, not in BC but back east and in the states, so it can be done
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Most of this is great info. focus on your technique and getting your presentation to where the fish are.
You can catch fish on any gear. Having the right gear makes this easier, but don't get too concerned with having the best. What you have is fine just lighten up on your leader.
One thing I might point out that hasn't been mentioned is you state that you try and let your float drift naturally. This is good you do want a natural drift to happen. But on your initial set up try holding back the float a little bit so that it points slightly upstream. This allows your hook and weight to get ahead of your float and ensures that it is the first thing the fish sees.
You have to remember that often the water on the top is moving faster then the water at the bottom.
If you just cast out and let your float drift, your float will lead. This means your line and weight is going to smack the fish in the head before your hook gets to them.
Hold your float back a bit and let your hook get ahead of it.
This is one of the biggest things I see newbies missing. They still catch fish but it usually ends up being on the swing once the hook gets out in front, rather then on the drift. Set up your presentation right at the beginning of the drift and you'll have much better success.
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Thats what I had been doing when I use the colorado, just hold it back a bit so I can feel the spinner working. Ill give that a shot with the other gear next time.
Another thing that has been happening to me is Ill reall my line in and notice that my leader became tangled around the weight so obviously that drift wasnt doing me any good. Is this just casting technique or because of the snap swivel?
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It's hard to say but likely your casting technique.
Do you side arm your cast a bit or straight over the head?
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Ive been trying both, I notice it more with a more sidearm type cast.
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every one develops their own style that works for them so use what is working.
I personally find that the overhead casts often whip the leader around the weight.
For me the best cast is from the side and should be done as more of an underhand flip rather then overhead.
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Casting is definitely a personal preference thing, but that being said you'll also have a much more enjoyable experience if you learn all the different techniques. That versatility will become hugely beneficial when trying to fish untouched water in hard to access areas were only one style of cast will accommodate your area of access. With regards to the leader tangling with the main line, I would suggest focusing on finesse. Lots of guys whip their gear out there and it can work, but again, it won't always work. If you learn to get a gentle swing that uses the inertia of the gear to pull the line out you'll find yourself dealing with less tangles. This applies whether overhand or side, don't just flick it, focus on being smooth and placing the float on the water. My 2 cents.
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Ive been trying both, I notice it more with a more sidearm type cast.
How is your weight attached? I use the "crimp on the tag" method and if it is too far from the swivel it causes it to spin messing up the line. You also don't need the snap swivel. And how much weight are you using?
Also, when I cast I hold back just before my gear hits the water so it lays out straight when it hits the water. Not doing so can cause it to pile on top of each other leading to a tangle.
PS, hue-nut says I was lucky with my steel-head ::)....I attribute it to a book I studied about fishing, rigging, methods, etc, and it has helped me greatly!!! I forget what the book was called though. Something about steel-heading from the Burnaby library. ;)
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Don't listen to the other guys.
All you have to do is find the fish.
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Don't listen to the other guys.
All you have to do is find the fish.
How to find the fish then? ::)
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Thats what I had been doing when I use the colorado, just hold it back a bit so I can feel the spinner working. Ill give that a shot with the other gear next time.
Another thing that has been happening to me is Ill reall my line in and notice that my leader became tangled around the weight so obviously that drift wasnt doing me any good. Is this just casting technique or because of the snap swivel?
This has nothing to do with casting technique and everything to do with line twist. What happens is as your colorado spins in the water your line will twist on itself. A standard barrel swivel will help to slow this process but will not eliminate the problem.
My solution to this problem is to use a chain swivel whenever fishing colorados and to give my line a second to 'untwist' between casts.
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Thanks for all the tips guys as I have only landed 2 adult coho this season. :-[ ;D
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Thanks for all the tips guys as I have only landed 2 adult coho this season. :-[ ;D
That's because you stick so stubbornly to roe.
There are times (quite often, actually) that coho will take only artificials (tiny wool ties, small spoons and spinners, flies). There are times when roe simply DOES NOT WORK.
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There are times when roe simply DOES NOT WORK.
Shhhhhhhhh! :P
This is blasphemy roe always works! Don't listen to milo, keep using roe and I'll just bumble along with my artificials!
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Everytime I have been out this year, artificial have been outfishing roe or other baits. Over 3/4 of all my fish hooked have been on blades, jigs or spinners.
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I have caught 15-20 coho, and lost a few, I think I've only had two hooked on spinners, the rest on roe.
So, in conclusion my roe is lethal .
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Really I think it just comes down to fishing whatever you choose effectively and that comes with confidence.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/blog/2011/09/03/be-confident-on-your-lures/ (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/blog/2011/09/03/be-confident-on-your-lures/)
http://www.larrysfishinghole.com/aug11.html (http://www.larrysfishinghole.com/aug11.html)
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So I checked out the stave today for a couple hours. I also went with smaller hooks and thinner leader this time. Got one bite with a black and red jig and then that's went untouched. I then switched to a #4 hook with a peach and orange yarn tie and afterafter about 10 mins I got a hit from a big gnarly looking chum and landed him, woohoo, LOL.
I unintentially foul hooked one too which happens I guess. All in all, a good couple hour exploration trip. Will definitely go back.
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Thanks for all the tips guys as I have only landed 2 adult coho this season. :-[ ;D
You have to go out more often Chris ;D. You are a funny man, you can't possibly land just two adult.
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Shhhhhhhhh! :P
This is blasphemy roe always works! Don't listen to milo, keep using roe and I'll just bumble along with my artificials!
After all I have been hearing about Roe and trying it I found myself doing significantly better with Colorado blades this year. They just seemed more willing to attack those but, then again, I was using pink and coho roe. People tell me the Chum roe works better.
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my personal experience is spots is the key to get fish... all other technics will help to refine the setup, or improve the seccess rate a little bit.... But it's always good to try the lighter setup going forward...
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Well, on Friday I Wen to the Stave for the second time and caught more fish than I had all season. IT was a great day. got to practice playing and landing lots of fish. Landed about 10-12 and had 5-6 get off the hook. It was my best day of the season. IT started slow, cold and foggy and I Wasnt getting anything using colorados. Then my buddy was talking with someone who gave him a pink and blue jig and he started cathing with every 4-5 casts. I switched to a jig as well but didnt get anything but all I had was darker jigs with black in them. I switched to yarn then and still had no luck.
By then my buddy had started using his roe and kept catching fish. I then switched to the roe and bam, every couple casts I had a fish on. IT was like this for almost 2 hours and then it was like they just stopped hitting the roe when the fog burned off. Then a guy came up close to us and caught one on his first cast with a colorado so we switched back to them as well and the fish were on again.
Even though there was nothing keepable, it was a great day and I got alot more experience with the fish than I had all season. Its those days that make the days getting skunked worthwhile I guess.
Thanks for all the help, I did use smaller leader and hooks for the most part but those chum were hitting damn near everything.
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That is the key. Now you have confidence in a variety of tactics. You get a sense of what hits look and feel like. You have learned to switch up methods regularly while out on the waterNext season you will be good to go.
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That is the key. Now you have confidence in a variety of tactics. You get a sense of what hits look and feel like. You have learned to switch up methods regularly while out on the waterNext season you will be good to go.
I would agree this is key to catching fish from my experience. Last year I would use the same thing all day bc everyone would say roe is best. Now I keep changing what I am throwing at them until I have success. From getting skunked over and over last year to just once this year. Still a long way to go tho.
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The ability to fish a different variety of baits is essential,when trying to fish busy runs. Many times i have come into a spot where a few guys have been all day, with little to show for it, and nailed a fish on my first or second cast. It all comes down to trying something different than what is already being presented to the fish in the run.